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  1. #1
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    45% of men in the US should get married

    I wrote that 6 months ago in another forum, in response to somebody wondering why anybody would tie the knot in this day and age: Happy Bachelors Forum

    I am copy/pasting it here, with few minor corrections (originally wrote Himalayas when I meant to write mount Everest - also corrected a grammatical and a spelling error). That post is why I don't think it's a good idea to have "just say no to marriage" campaigns. There is no simple yes or no answer to the issue of getting married. Everybody has to learn all the cons (and the few pros) and figure out which one, for their particular situation, outweighs the other.

    Original Post:

    I believe that marriages makes sense for about 45% of males in the US:

    1) About 15% of males in the US are Alpha males. Beautiful women are seeing them as God, worship them and willing to serve them. And are much less likely to divorce them than what the overall statistics indicate. Let's say two thirds of those Alpha males want kids. That's 10% of males in the US who should get married.

    2) About 10% (number pulled out of my ass - talking about order of magnitude here, not exact statistics) of males are either Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons, or belong to some other tight knit religious group. They value family more than what most of us get out being MGTOW (freedom, etc.). They are likely virgins, and have the opportunity to marry a virgin from the same religious group. Soon after marriage, oxytocin will bind both together, and will get a great feeling from the mere presence of each other. Those males should marry. That's another 10%, for a total of 20%.

    3) As I write these lines, there are people preparing to climb mount Everest, fully aware that many before them died while trying such an exploit, and that numerous others lost fingers and toes to frostbite. Not everybody on this planet wants to make it safely to his grave. There have always been people who've risked their lives for something they value that much. The 10% or so of males (other than the ones already listed above) who value fatherhood within the context of a traditional family enough to be willing to risk poverty, decades in prison, hell at home, a criminal record (false DV charges or a restraining order), death, etc. should get married. The total is now 30%.

    4) Many high school dropouts don't have enough money to leave their hoods. If they shack up with their high school dropout sweetheart, they may be able to afford a one bedroom apartment outside the war zone. If my only two options were to either live in Crips territory or marry a ho, I'll take the ho everyday. Besides, if u r that broke, there is no blood for the divorce court to suck out of u. If 10% of men are in that situation, that's a total of 40%.

    5) About 5% of males in the US are illegal aliens. They are locked out of most decent paying jobs, many educational institutions, the safety net (social security if they become disabled). It makes sense for them to give an American bitch three years of their lives in order to get back thirty. Besides, just like the high school dropouts, most illegal immigrants are poor. No blood to suck out from them. Total: 45%.

    Everybody's situation and values are different. We shouldn't assume that what's good for us is good for everybody.

    The problem I see is that 80% of US males get married at least once. So 35% of US males made a huge mistake. Another way to look at it is that almost half of the men who get married are making a big mistake.
    Last edited by BeijaFlor; July 6, 2014 at 3:18 PM. Reason: Spelling

  2. #2
    Senior Member VLazarusC's Avatar
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    1. Just because they are Alpha, many recognise the financial servitude you have to give back to the woman in order to keep her attached to you. One other thing is that Alphas are broken into 2 sides: Negative and Positive Alpha, and negative alphas are the scum of the society: people like Justin Bieber for example are negative alphas.

    2.I highly doubt the males in a tight religious group do not marry; all of them are married by the age of 35 tops, and you'd be surprised how many Mormon girls are not virgins. The Mormon girls do not go full-whore mode like their non-Mormon counterparts, but many are no longer virgin from the current generation.

    3.Believing in the value of fatherhood just to get kicked in the teeth by the legal system is pretty much being a dumb ignorant, Terrence Popp put this very well: you get a sign, then you get a warning, then if you didn't act on neither, you get served. You'd better have 0 kids than risking them to turn fucked up because of an abusive ex-wife single mum, furthermore adding to the next generation's padding of dumb people to get led by others.

    4.Compromises.

    5.See above, however American women might not marry one of the illegal aliens because their standards are too high to marry the poor male Mexicans, get real here. Also not worth to risk getting owned in a divorce court for 18 years-forever (depending on the state) just for a citizenship.
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  3. #3

    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    Well, I'm not one of them.

  4. #4
    Senior Member College MGTOW's Avatar
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    Zero percent of men should be married. There is no protection for men in any state of the relationship with women. 80% of men took a big fucking gamble, is what they did.
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  5. #5

    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    No man should ever get married, that is akin to playing Russian roulette with half the chambers loaded.
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    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    Abdenour, I would prefer it if you'd said, "45% of men in the USA might as well get married."

    We are clearly part of the 55%, here, wouldn't you say, folks?

    I am not a big fan of "should;" I'm suspicious of "should" statements; but I am a big believer in "Actions have consequences, and you are responsible for the consequences of your actions." Any man who chooses to get married - or shacked up - or become a baby-daddy - in this day and age, needs to know what he's risking; needs to know the likely and possible consequences of those actions; but in the end, it's all up to him, and to the sweet Cupcake who's likely winding him around her finger.
    Last edited by BeijaFlor; July 6, 2014 at 3:33 PM.
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    Senior Member Capo's Avatar
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    I have never been married, quite frankly I never saw any benefit to doing it.
    Maybe I'm wrong but it seems generations before me it worked better, women of my generation (I'm 48) are just so fucked up either mentally or physically that the risk vs reward makes it not worth it.
    i blame feminism for what has happened to women of today, they seem to all have no morals act like sluts and let themselves go. To top it all off then we have the laws against men if cupcake would decide to kick you to the curb, sorry I didn't work hard at my job and save to hand it all over to a woman.

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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    We could quibble over percentages or the use of the term should vs might as well... But ultimately I think that Abdenour hits on a good point ;that marriage might be good for some men. But I think that the numbers are lower personally. Some men just don't have the spirit to go it alone, they are fully institutionalized, they cannot fathom following a different path. I have a few friends for whom the blue pill is their only reason to live, and they are dependant, tamed men. They have sex-less sterile but stable marriages (their wives are too hideous to get a better deal and they know it). That could change one day; buddy could grow some nuts or cupcake might bail regardless but given the current conditions their lives are miserable but tolerable for them.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Devil's Avatar
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdenour View Post
    I wrote that 6 months ago in another forum, in response to somebody wondering why anybody would tie the knot in this day and age: Happy Bachelors Forum

    I am copy/pasting it here, with few minor corrections (originally wrote Himalayas when I meant to write mount Everest - also corrected a grammatical and a spelling error). That post is why I don't think it's a good idea to have "just say no to marriage" campaigns. There is no simple yes or no answer to the issue of getting married.

    Strongly disagree. There is a reason such campaigns exist, many of which are discussed on this very forum repeatedly. I'll keep it simple: we live in an age of narcissism and technology far beyond the scope of what was even conceivable 100 years ago. Things are easier now than they ever have been. This isn't all that conducive to marriage, which demands sacrifice, duty, honor and basically hard work to be even slightly feasible. Moving on.


    Everybody has to learn all the cons (and the few pros) and figure out which one, for their particular situation, outweighs the other.

    Original Post:

    I believe that marriages makes sense for about 45% of males in the US:

    1) About 15% of males in the US are Alpha males. Beautiful women are seeing them as God, worship them and willing to serve them. And are much less likely to divorce them than what the overall statistics indicate. Let's say two thirds of those Alpha males want kids. That's 10% of males in the US who should get married.
    By last count, 50% of first heterosexual marriages end in no fault divorce. An educated estimate puts 33% of American children being lied to about their parentage by the mother (thank you, Terrence Popp). That's to say nothing of the men in these relationships being lied to. Women have proven time and again that hypergamy knows no bounds. They could have their Alpha but still 'make a mistake' (avoidance of personal responsibility, see above). Most Alphas will NOT react well to being a cuckold. I also notice you knocked off 5% for the so-called Alphas who don't wish to have children. Are you saying, then, that the only "Alphas" who should get married are the ones who want to procreate? Because they don't need to. As you said, women line up and worship them. Why bother having just one when you can have a whole harem if that's your sole purpose for being with women in the first place?

    2) About 10% (number pulled out of my ass - talking about order of magnitude here, not exact statistics) of males are either Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons, or belong to some other tight knit religious group. They value family more than what most of us get out being MGTOW (freedom, etc.). They are likely virgins, and have the opportunity to marry a virgin from the same religious group. Soon after marriage, oxytocin will bind both together, and will get a great feeling from the mere presence of each other. Those males should marry. That's another 10%, for a total of 20%.

    Hate to break it to you, but religious people are still humans. They still have the same faults as everyone else. If they didn't, Catholics would not need the practice called confession. Religion simply makes the transgressions more egregious, exposing the person for a hypocrite. These days, women also receive what we here at GYOW affectionately refer to as a 'pussy pass', even from the church. In the US black community, a lot of people join the church later on in life AFTER they have sinned their asses off. God forgives a repentant sinner, right? Well, I'd hypothesize that a lot of people in these church environments have checkered pasts. Now, that's between them and their faith, but let's not kid ourselves: some of these Christian/Mormon/whatever else women were/are carousel riders and not marriage material.


    3) As I write these lines, there are people preparing to climb mount Everest, fully aware that many before them died while trying such an exploit, and that numerous others lost fingers and toes to frostbite. Not everybody on this planet wants to make it safely to his grave. There have always been people who've risked their lives for something they value that much. The 10% or so of males (other than the ones already listed above) who value fatherhood within the context of a traditional family enough to be willing to risk poverty, decades in prison, hell at home, a criminal record (false DV charges or a restraining order), death, etc. should get married. The total is now 30%.

    The mere fact that you compare the current state of marriage to a potentially lethal behavior like climbing a mountain or violent crime tells me that you know full well how dangerous this proposal of yours is.

    But these men should get married simply because they don't shy away from high risks? And make no mistake, there is no high reward for marriage. Companionship and offspring are goals that can be accomplished without that potentially lethal behavior mentioned above, so again, why bother? Even a high stakes gambler knows their limits and when to call it quits.


    4) Many high school dropouts don't have enough money to leave their hoods. If they shack up with their high school dropout sweetheart, they may be able to afford a one bedroom apartment outside the war zone. If my only two options were to either live in Crips territory or marry a ho, I'll take the ho everyday. Besides, if u r that broke, there is no blood for the divorce court to suck out of u. If 10% of men are in that situation, that's a total of 40%.
    Wat.jpg

    You are aware that you don't have to get married to have a roommate, right? And that even people in the situation you described could pursue goals that would let them escape? I mean, that's a little insulting to assume that these men either can't or won't find a way out on their own without some 'ho', as you charmingly put it. And let's say he did against all odds realize his potential and achieve some financial success. Guess what? That 'ho' can and most likely WILL take everything at the word of her 'ho' friends/relatives.


    5) About 5% of males in the US are illegal aliens. They are locked out of most decent paying jobs, many educational institutions, the safety net (social security if they become disabled). It makes sense for them to give an American bitch three years of their lives in order to get back thirty. Besides, just like the high school dropouts, most illegal immigrants are poor. No blood to suck out from them. Total: 45%.

    So, again, you are admitting that marriage is all about resources. These men should get married specifically due to their LACK of resources? That's kinda fucked up. You're saying people should get married and what's more, they should get married for the exact wrong reasons. At its most ideal state, marriage is supposed to be about these intangible things like love, duty, honor, commitment...NONE of which I see addressed in any of your arguments. Do you not see that this is the very reason that nobody should get married? That these reasons, supposedly the very best you could come up with are mere convenience and not due to things like compatibility or responsibility? It takes work for a relationship to endure. I'll be honest: I don't find any woman worth that kind of risk or effort. You may call it cynical, but I'd argue that preaching people should get married simply due to convenience is far more cynical.


    Everybody's situation and values are different. We shouldn't assume that what's good for us is good for everybody.
    Amen. And you better be grateful for me saying that, because it gives me severe burns when I do.

    The problem I see is that 80% of US males get married at least once. So 35% of US males made a huge mistake. Another way to look at it is that almost half of the men who get married are making a big mistake.
    I did say that. Way the hell up there! Anyway, this is where I leave you. I don't mean to come across as insulting if I am, but I seriously can't agree with most of what you said here. And if you honestly still believe that marriage is right for you, by all means pursue it. This is just my take on the situation.

  10. #10

    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    You did forget one thing about a poor man getting married to help ease the cost of living and that is that his wife is extremely likely to get pregnant driving them both deeper into poverty, instead what the poor man should be doing is looking for a reliable like minded roommate and leave it at that.
    True happiness is only found within, to seek it elsewhere will result in failure.

  11. #11
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    I think this is getting too heated for the Lounge - justly so, perhaps, but still ...

    Moving it into "Rant."
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    Heated as it may be, I still implore Abdenour to continue the conversation. Only because I think - despite the fact I say 0% of men should be married and 80% are gamblers - this is being looked at purely from an economics point of view, that in these situations it is economically feasible to do so, and to ignore the benefits outweighing the cost (Again, Terrence Popp put the cost into perspective himself) would be robbing ourselves of consumer surplus we have an economic right to.
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post

    By last count, 50% of first heterosexual marriages end in no fault divorce. ....
    Hate to break it to you, but religious people are still humans. They still have the same faults as everyone else. If they didn't, Catholics would not need the practice called confession. Religion simply makes the transgressions more egregious, exposing the person for a hypocrite. These days, women also receive what we here at GYOW affectionately refer to as a 'pussy pass', even from the church. In the US black community, a lot of people join the church later on in life AFTER they have sinned their asses off. God forgives a repentant sinner, right? Well, I'd hypothesize that a lot of people in these church environments have checkered pasts. Now, that's between them and their faith, but let's not kid ourselves: some of these Christian/Mormon/whatever else women were/are carousel riders and not marriage material.
    Hi Devil,

    Let's take one specific hypothetical example: let's say you have a 17 year old neighbor named Steve, who happens to be a devout Jehovah's witness. He comes and tells you about this 15 year old girl named Mary from his congregation that he really likes and can't stop to think about. He tells you he is virgin, has no intention of ever having sex outside of marriage, that Mary told him she is a virgin, and that he really wants to have a family and be a great dad. Then asks you for advice on what to do. Will you tell him to just forget about Mary, fatherhood, sex, and just live a celibate life including the next 20 years of unsatisfied high sex drive ?

    My advice to Steve would be to propose to Mary, marry her as soon as legally possible (Nevada allows youngsters to marry), and, if the first night he finds out she is not virgin, get the marriage annulled the next business day, and reduce all interaction with her to "hi, how r u ?". And that, if she is indeed a virgin, try to stay married as long as possible, and to take the red pill and learn game to keep his wife's interest in him alive and lasting.

    By the way, the right statistic for that situation is here: The Social Pathologist: Sexual Partner Divorce Risk
    The divorce statistic within 10 years for couples where the bride is virgin is either 25% or 19.53% (not sure on how to read that chart). For the above described situation above, I believe it's much less.

    The 50% figure you quoted includes marriages of singles moms with kids, who have lost their ability to bond, are in search of a wallet, marry the man that comes with the wallet, and after a few years realize that the man no longer has to even come with the wallet. That they can have the beta free wallet to spend as they please. The 50% also includes alpha widows marrying betas just because they can't pin down an alpha, and then spend their married years longing for (and sometimes getting) alphas, and then realize they can keep the wallet without having to put up with the beta anymore. So that 50% figure is irrelevant to the above described situation.

    You have made many other points, but I prefer to just answer one at a time, so the post doesn't turn into a novel.

  14. #14

    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    I think factoring out a few variables and saying "yes go for it" or "no, stay the hell away" is oversimplifying the situation.

    The way I see it, this question will always be a case by case scenario and each individual will have to make life choices that align with their goals. I just wish people were more informed before making these decisions (Car Loans, Student Loans, Mortages, Marriages).
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    Senior Member BrotherJ's Avatar
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    It seems clear to me that a man who wants to marry should do so if and only if he finds a woman who is suited for it. Therefore, very few men should get married.
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    By the way, this is not the thread I meant to start this morning. Since there has recently been a debate here about MRA vs. MGTOW vs. Activism, I wanted to start a thread saying that MGTOWs who are interested in activism would be more productive running a "Just Say No To Marriage" campaign targeted at young men. No need to convince women of anything. No need to convince politicians of anything. No need to convince MSM's opinion makers of anything. No need to convince trad cons of anything. No need to convince manginas and white knights of anything. No need to try to change any existing law.

    Polls have shown that 22% of 25 to 34 year old men have already decided not to get married. Let's assume that 22% of all men have decided not to get married, if we could turn that into 23%, that's one extra million lives saved.

    But then, as I was thinking about the topic, the same ideas that I posted 6 months ago in another forum came to mind. So I decided to start this thread instead. A campaign saying "Think Really Really Really Hard Before You Get Married" would be more accurate, but it's not as catchy as "Just Say No To Marriage", which mimics the "Just Say No To Drugs" campaign.

    Maybe one can run a "Just Say No To Marriage*", with a fine print "* Restrictions Apply. Inquire within the manosphere".

  17. #17
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdenour View Post
    By the way, this is not the thread I meant to start this morning. Since there has recently been a debate here about MRA vs. MGTOW vs. Activism, I wanted to start a thread saying that MGTOWs who are interested in activism would be more productive running a "Just Say No To Marriage" campaign targeted at young men. No need to convince women of anything. No need to convince politicians of anything. No need to convince MSM's opinion makers of anything. No need to convince trad cons of anything. No need to convince manginas and white knights of anything. No need to try to change any existing law.

    Polls have shown that 22% of 25 to 34 year old men have already decided not to get married. Let's assume that 22% of all men have decided not to get married, if we could turn that into 23%, that's one extra million lives saved.

    But then, as I was thinking about the topic, the same ideas that I posted 6 months ago in another forum came to mind. So I decided to start this thread instead. A campaign saying "Think Really Really Really Hard Before You Get Married" would be more accurate, but it's not as catchy as "Just Say No To Marriage", which mimics the "Just Say No To Drugs" campaign.

    Maybe one can run a "Just Say No To Marriage*", with a fine print "* Restrictions Apply. Inquire within the manosphere".
    So THAT'S where you wanted to go with this!

    I hadn't discussed it here on GYOW, but I've been looking at the notion of putting up stickers in public places, as an activist behavior - both to drive the local feminists BSC, and to 'plant a seed' in the minds of the local everyone-else. I found a place that will print vinyl (weather-resistant) bumper-stickers for a reasonable price, "StickerJunkie.com" ...

    Here's what the StickerJunkie "sticker generator" did when I loaded it with your idea (screen shot):



    $35 for 100 stickers, 8.5" x 1.5" - are you willing to buy 100 stickers for your neighborhood, or your nearby college campus?

    I made an order for 200 of these (double-wide, 8.5" x 3") for the ever-popular Domestic Violence theme ...

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  18. #18
    Senior Member Devil's Avatar
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    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdenour View Post
    Hi Devil,

    Let's take one specific hypothetical example: let's say you have a 17 year old neighbor named Steve, who happens to be a devout Jehovah's witness. He comes and tells you about this 15 year old girl named Mary from his congregation that he really likes and can't stop to think about. He tells you he is virgin, has no intention of ever having sex outside of marriage, that Mary told him she is a virgin, and that he really wants to have a family and be a great dad. Then asks you for advice on what to do. Will you tell him to just forget about Mary, fatherhood, sex, and just live a celibate life including the next 20 years of unsatisfied high sex drive ?

    My advice to Steve would be to propose to Mary, marry her as soon as legally possible (Nevada allows youngsters to marry), and, if the first night he finds out she is not virgin, get the marriage annulled the next business day, and reduce all interaction with her to "hi, how r u ?". And that, if she is indeed a virgin, try to stay married as long as possible, and to take the red pill and learn game to keep his wife's interest in him alive and lasting.

    By the way, the right statistic for that situation is here: The Social Pathologist: Sexual Partner Divorce Risk
    The divorce statistic within 10 years for couples where the bride is virgin is either 25% or 19.53% (not sure on how to read that chart). For the above described situation above, I believe it's much less.

    The 50% figure you quoted includes marriages of singles moms with kids, who have lost their ability to bond, are in search of a wallet, marry the man that comes with the wallet, and after a few years realize that the man no longer has to even come with the wallet. That they can have the beta free wallet to spend as they please. The 50% also includes alpha widows marrying betas just because they can't pin down an alpha, and then spend their married years longing for (and sometimes getting) alphas, and then realize they can keep the wallet without having to put up with the beta anymore. So that 50% figure is irrelevant to the above described situation.

    You have made many other points, but I prefer to just answer one at a time, so the post doesn't turn into a novel.
    Well, I'd tell "Steve" that he's thinking with his dick in no uncertain terms - and then to get the hell off my property before anyone sees me talking to a teenager about sex because I'm evil. I don't really believe that the 50% figure can be discounted simply because that's what the majority of men have to choose from. And even the situation you described isn't bulletproof.

    But, the fact of the matter is this: every last one of us has to figure this sort of thing out on our own. Saying no to marriage can, has and most likely will continue to work for me. I won't attempt to force my beliefs on anyone. I just disagree that anyone should get married in this current social climate in the US. Even fictitious Steve. It's not so much that I want to see people miserable (well, okay, I do - cause evil) as the fact that it's simple math and makes logical sense.

  19. #19

    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    I really have to say that no men should get married. Even the 5% alphas, WTF does marriage do for them? They can just stick with unmarried relationships. And one of those groups of people in OP - men with a profound attraction to death-defying stunts, so marriage won't seem so bad - that's like The Predatory Female argument, the law will allow you to get married, but it won't allow you to keep a 600-pound bengal tiger in your back yard, so... marriage??

  20. #20

    Re: 45% of men in the US should get married

    I see where you're comming from Abdenour. But as it currently stands, Marriage is an institution of male servitude. If marriage was truly a partnership between two people under laws that were fair and balanced, I may find myself recommending it to the same 45 percent of men as well. However, Marriage is an invisible chain that binds a man not just to his wife and children but to the government and when it's finally over, it leaves him at the mercy of a biased court system. There is no shortage of religious men being burnt, no shortage of false rape accusations, false domestic abuse reports, irresponsible obama mammas, and men raising children that are not theirs (approx. 10 percent). We live in a time where shitty behavior has not only become acceptable but it has become the norm.

    Every wedding I see makes me shake my head. Especially if the women is one that I KNOW will leave him eventually. Would you be willing to share your boat with a person who will be looking for a boat even bigger than yours? How about sharing a boat with a lazy thief who has laid out a secret escape plan when things dont look too good? That is the nature of women. Show me a "good" woman and I will show you a woman.


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