Thread: What is the maximum you would put into a 401K?

I see recommendations to contribute only up to the company's match. I've seen other recommendations that one should contribute as much as possible or even max it out if you can afford it. What are your thoughts on the 401K or even an IRA? Good way to invest or do you prefer other investments? I have a relative that recently bought a rental property but I'm not sure that's really a good investment anymore as quality renters seem much harder to come by now than they were decades ago.

401K

Put as MUCH as possible. To the limit, if you can!

Really no wrong answer to that. I guess it depends on how well the 401 is doing and what choices of funds it has,
if you have other investments outside of work, individual IRAs, Roths, etc.

A huge thing with 401k's is whether or not you're fully vested, meaning that you can take it with you if you leave the company,
or not fully vested, meaning you'd have to leave some or all of it behind. <--This would be the make or break item for me.

I personally have never contributed more than the company match, but I also have an outside IRA.
Also a big fan of the ROTH IRA, as it grows tax free, though contributions are after tax.

Being a federal puke, mine was government, but it's similar to a 401. I put 10% of my gross into it for twenty years. My take home wasn't much smaller since being single, the taxman would have taken most of that 10% had I not stashed it in the retirement account. For me it was a good move. I was a lousy investor, so the money had to come from somewhere.

Ordinary people made huge gains in the stock market back when Slick Willie was President, but that was a long time ago. I'm not sure your average piss boy can invest his way to success anymore. Buffing up the account yourself will get you a better annuity in the end. Least for me it did.

Re: Rentals

Also look at commercial, or industrial, as in like a factory unit or a storage industrial unit. If you can set it up in a business or company for ownership so profits are not pushing your income up into a higher tax bracket. Company tax should be less than personal tax, when one is paid off buy another.

Normally industrial type properties have less finished areas, that is less area to refinish for the next tenant, turn around can be quicker. Check the eviction laws in your area, company eviction is normally easier than evicting a family in the middle of winter in a cold climate.

Most investors overlook these properties that can be very profitable and very little risk of a poor tenant. Renting to a small business that the owner wants success is better than a family that wants a free ride.

i don't do 401K, because it won't make me rich. In fact it doesn't make anyone rich.

Originally Posted by UnKnownSurviving

i don't do 401K, because it won't make me rich. In fact it doesn't make anyone rich.

I thought you hated politicians?

When you become a US senator (rich), bring me along so I can get in on the action too! We can lie, cheat, and steal with no consequences to us and make the victims pay twice! Coming and going! Front door, back door!

Originally Posted by mgtower

I thought you hated politicians?

When you become a US senator (rich), bring me along so I can get in on the action too! We can lie, cheat, and steal with no consequences to us and make the victims pay twice! Coming and going! Front door, back door!

I do hate the politicians but there's another better way to hit rich. The 401K created in the 1970s, and in my experience it doesn't make you rich, it makes some else rich. So there is something else that actually genuinely make you rich and it's not 401K. The 401k takes too long to compound its money. So I don't do it, and I look else where to actually compound it my money and grow my wealth.

Originally Posted by RustyNuts

Re: Rentals

Also look at commercial, or industrial, as in like a factory unit or a storage industrial unit. If you can set it up in a business or company for ownership so profits are not pushing your income up into a higher tax bracket. Company tax should be less than personal tax, when one is paid off buy another.

Normally industrial type properties have less finished areas, that is less area to refinish for the next tenant, turn around can be quicker. Check the eviction laws in your area, company eviction is normally easier than evicting a family in the middle of winter in a cold climate.

Most investors overlook these properties that can be very profitable and very little risk of a poor tenant. Renting to a small business that the owner wants success is better than a family that wants a free ride.

I did consider buying some storage units at one time. I posted the idea on a forum and was talked into buying the stock of a large storage unit company instead. I'm sure the returns are significantly less but there is less hassle involved. From the way they made it sound, running a property with storage units would be a part time job. I suppose it depends on the size of the property and where it is located. Commercial does seem like a less risky option than residential.

Originally Posted by Brock

I did consider buying some storage units at one time. I posted the idea on a forum and was talked into buying the stock of a large storage unit company instead. I'm sure the returns are significantly less but there is less hassle involved. From the way they made it sound, running a property with storage units would be a part time job. I suppose it depends on the size of the property and where it is located. Commercial does seem like a less risky option than residential.

Storage units: I'm not meaning the storage units that you rent when you collect too much shit... That would be a retirement job...
It's like a place where a concrete finishing company can store the equipment between jobs or at night. A place where a business say a automotive battery wholesaler can store stock for his truck that he drives around selling batteries out of. It may have 1 or 2 offices and a very small showroom or counter to pick up goods. Maximum 1/4 of the space is finished. Normally there are a few (5 - 10) of them all lined up, some have signs to invite people in, some are never manned in working hours, depending on the use of them.

I think contributing the max as soon as you are able is the smart thing to do.

First, employers match is free money. If you don’t take advantage of that, you are just plain ignorant.

Second, every dollar you put in your 401k is one less dollar they can tax. I realize that you pay tax upon withdrawal, but that is planned for and saves you money now. Any way I can reduce my taxes today is a thing of beauty. Because fuck the government and the IRS. When they show me that they can be responsible with my tax dollars, I may change my tune. Until then (which we all know is never) I’ll avoid tax in any and every way possible. All they do is steal it.

Third, it is an easy and relatively painless way to save. Most people are just bad at saving. If you bite the bullet and contribute the max asap, you get used to it. And when retirement age starts getting close, you’ll be glad you did it.

I’m 56 now and would give my right nut to have started earlier so I could get the hell out of this fucked up, woke, work climate we are getting shoved up our ass today.

I'd be careful about investing in anything intangible for the foreseeable future...there is a concerted effort happening to remake/reset the entire global economy - with a potential, and I would say likely result being a complete wipeout of all existing financial assets (with untold and unknown impacts on the underlying tangible assets they represent).

"You will own nothing and you will be happy" so to speak.

Do I have an alternative recommendation? Hard to say...if this reset is successful, it will be very difficult to defend any tangible assets (by this I mean productive real estate like farmland, precious metals that you physically hold etc) from seizure. Still - these latter investments have also proven their stability and ability to create wealth over centuries and at this juncture, should be given some very serious consideration in your portfolio.

If the reset is unsuccessful (which is 50/50 at this point IMHO), there are still tremendous headwinds, fraud, manipulation etc with respect to intangible or financial assets. I firmly believe those well positioned with tangible assets will have a solid foundation over the next few decades.

Originally Posted by KRFJames

I'd be careful about investing in anything intangible for the foreseeable future...there is a concerted effort happening to remake/reset the entire global economy - with a potential, and I would say likely result being a complete wipeout of all existing financial assets (with untold and unknown impacts on the underlying tangible assets they represent).

"You will own nothing and you will be happy" so to speak.

Do I have an alternative recommendation? Hard to say...if this reset is successful, it will be very difficult to defend any tangible assets (by this I mean productive real estate like farmland, precious metals that you physically hold etc) from seizure. Still - these latter investments have also proven their stability and ability to create wealth over centuries and at this juncture, should be given some very serious consideration in your portfolio.

If the reset is unsuccessful (which is 50/50 at this point IMHO), there are still tremendous headwinds, fraud, manipulation etc with respect to intangible or financial assets. I firmly believe those well positioned with tangible assets will have a solid foundation over the next few decades.

There is serious concern in some quarters, and not all of them are nuts, about the possibility of government seizing 401(k)s and IRAs to offset the national debt. You would probably get some kind of shares in Social Security as "compensation". Retirement accounts have been nationalized in a number of countries including Chile and some in Eastern Europe. There was also the "haircut" given to all accounts, not just those for retirement, in Cyprus several years ago.

I have a 401(k) at work, and my contributions are exactly enough to get the maximum employer match—no more. If I leave the company, I'll liquidate the account rather than continue to invest the money. You should consider doing the same. Better to have some cash at your disposal than to have a greedy, woke socialist government just take it from you.

I would reach whatever my company's maximum was and not a penny more. I'd do everything else myself.

Originally Posted by KRFJames

I'd be careful about investing in anything intangible for the foreseeable future...there is a concerted effort happening to remake/reset the entire global economy - with a potential, and I would say likely result being a complete wipeout of all existing financial assets (with untold and unknown impacts on the underlying tangible assets they represent).

"You will own nothing and you will be happy" so to speak.

Do I have an alternative recommendation? Hard to say...if this reset is successful, it will be very difficult to defend any tangible assets (by this I mean productive real estate like farmland, precious metals that you physically hold etc) from seizure. Still - these latter investments have also proven their stability and ability to create wealth over centuries and at this juncture, should be given some very serious consideration in your portfolio.

If the reset is unsuccessful (which is 50/50 at this point IMHO), there are still tremendous headwinds, fraud, manipulation etc with respect to intangible or financial assets. I firmly believe those well positioned with tangible assets will have a solid foundation over the next few decades.

So you would suggest investing in something like land as opposed to investing in the market?

Originally Posted by K-Dog

There is serious concern in some quarters, and not all of them are nuts, about the possibility of government seizing 401(k)s and IRAs to offset the national debt. You would probably get some kind of shares in Social Security as "compensation". Retirement accounts have been nationalized in a number of countries including Chile and some in Eastern Europe. There was also the "haircut" given to all accounts, not just those for retirement, in Cyprus several years ago.

I have a 401(k) at work, and my contributions are exactly enough to get the maximum employer match—no more. If I leave the company, I'll liquidate the account rather than continue to invest the money. You should consider doing the same. Better to have some cash at your disposal than to have a greedy, woke socialist government just take it from you.

I have seen articles about this from time-to-time and I must admit it has been a concern. So you pay the penalty when you liquidate the account?

There is also concern from some people that "Wall Street will steal it". There are wealthy people that do take advantage to the big drops in the stock market.

With that being said, are you comfortable with so much cash when the inflation rate is 10+%? Even when inflation is not high, it does tend to rise from year-to-year.

Originally Posted by Brock

I have seen articles about this from time-to-time and I must admit it has been a concern. So you pay the penalty when you liquidate the account?

There is also concern from some people that "Wall Street will steal it". There are wealthy people that do take advantage to the big drops in the stock market.

With that being said, are you comfortable with so much cash when the inflation rate is 10+%? Even when inflation is not high, it does tend to rise from year-to-year.

I'm past age 59-1/2, so I would pay no 10% penalty upon liquidating a retirement account, only income tax.

If inflation is 10%, but the retirement account is earning only (say) 3%, or the stock market is stagnant or actually tanks, you're no better off than if you had the cash in hand. Few investments are earning better than the inflation rate right now. Even real estate is cooling.

I'll also say that I think a SHTF scenario is coming and don't expect to survive. Having some cash to enjoy my last few years without working full-time would be nice.

Originally Posted by Brock

So you would suggest investing in something like land as opposed to investing in the market?

Yes but only productive farmland....any other real estate right now (at least in the West) is likely overvalued. Farmland has always been an inflation hedge and provides fairly steady returns over a medium to long term horizon. That being said, certain areas are overvalued substantially. There are certain types of funds/securities that allow you to invest indirectly into a pool of farmland assets as well.

Nothing guaranteed of course - but as the saying about land goes, they aren't making any more of it.

Originally Posted by K-Dog

I'm past age 59-1/2, so I would pay no 10% penalty upon liquidating a retirement account, only income tax.

If inflation is 10%, but the retirement account is earning only (say) 3%, or the stock market is stagnant or actually tanks, you're no better off than if you had the cash in hand. Few investments are earning better than the inflation rate right now. Even real estate is cooling.

That's how it is now, but the market outperforms cash over the long haul. Of course, at the stage of the game you're in, it absolutely makes sense to hold more cash and less in stocks.

Originally Posted by K-Dog

I'll also say that I think a SHTF scenario is coming and don't expect to survive. Having some cash to enjoy my last few years without working full-time would be nice.

What kind of a scenario are you envisioning?

Originally Posted by KRFJames

Yes but only productive farmland....any other real estate right now (at least in the West) is likely overvalued. Farmland has always been an inflation hedge and provides fairly steady returns over a medium to long term horizon. That being said, certain areas are overvalued substantially. There are certain types of funds/securities that allow you to invest indirectly into a pool of farmland assets as well.

Nothing guaranteed of course - but as the saying about land goes, they aren't making any more of it.

That makes sense. My dad often laments not buying land in the 80s as land around here is worth significantly more than it was then, but I don't see that trend continuing. It seems to be overpriced now. Those securities are probably a better option for working class/middle class/non wealthy people. I'd imagine it takes a significant amount of capital to invest in farmland, without having to pay a ton of interest.