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  1. #21
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    For example, I'd feel really bad if I was working for a ma and pa shop and not giving them my best. On the other hand, if you work for a place that is so bloated or is tax-payer subsidized then I don't feel so bad about exploiting the system.
    That is exactly why the framers limited the powers and scope of government.

    Fix up your house, pay more in taxes? Because others rather be lazy and live in mire? Get between, take from one and give to the other? Totally demoralizing in plan, scope, nature, and yes, OUTCOME.

    Work overtime, earn more, they take more? Again, get between, take from one and give to the other. Slow down the productive person to finance the unproductive person? Ludicrous!

    There's two kinds of governments, the ones that get in the way of personal choices and liberties, and others that get in the way for the sake of homogenization and cultural cultivation.

    So what's the answer? Who would you rather be and to what degree would you choose to live it? Leach or leached?

    Personally? It's not cheating when the rules dictate the fruits of your labor are better purposed for the sake of others that chose different paths to different outcomes, in other words a system where the responsible and accountable subsidize the irresponsible and unaccountable.

    The problem always boils down to the system and it's gross allocations of your earnings squandered on worthlessness while we scurry to pay for this burden afflicting us, often putting us in a higher tax bracket but lower living standards than those that leach off the system. Eventually the entire house of cards collapses while the leaches starve to death from lack of nourishment and the ones that learned how to fish, go on living on the skill sets they acquired.

    When the host dies, so do the parasites. Class warfare is a creation made by governments, less government teaches people accountability and self reliance, directly in their faces, no back door, no safety net. We reap what we sew should not be intruded upon by governments that homogenize the sorrows and the joys among one another, it teaches unaccountably for poor performance and poor behavior. The the cycle of socialism advancing to communism is what I'm talking about, a land where all live mediocre mundane lives with an ever lowering and decreasing living standard, until all that's left is a carcass and dead leaches.

    We're in that cycle once again thanks to female empowerment and estrogen thinking.
    A man's only "safe space" be in his sovereignty, free from the illusions and misconceptions of a unity that only serves to bind him to tyranny and perdition.

  2. #22

    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post

    Your workmates will have to pick up your slack causing resentment and getting you noticed, and not in a positive way. How does this benefit you? Its certainly not a good ghosting strategy.

    Your boss(es) will also notice and take a dim view of your lack of effort. How does this benefit you? And again not a good ghosting strategy.


    Yes I would say it depends on what job you have that you'll be able to employ a tactic like this. I would say that it would be beneficial to be covert about this. Yes it's not something that needs to be advertised and you don't want to take it too far. I would say it's up for everyone's best judgement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    The taxman wont even notice. Again how does this benefit you?

    The way I see it, it's not about the taxman noticing or not. He's not part of the equation. It's about taking some of your time/money back that was taken from you via taxation. It benefits me by taking back some of the time/money on the organization's dime. Yes someone will make up the difference and it won't be me. The way I see it, if the organization I'm taking back my time/money has a grievance, objectively it's with the taxman. If the taxman wasn't overtly stealing from me, I wouldn't have to do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    You go out to a restaurant and end up with food poisoning because the food is only 73% cooked.

    Your toilet springs a leak and you call a plumber. He only fixes 73% of the leak sure thats all Im being paid for!

    You go to a football match and only get to see 73% of the game, after that everyone walks off the field.

    Your car develops a problem with the braking system. Your mechanic repairs the fault and tells you ah sure your brakes will now work 73% of the time.
    Most people can't employ this strategy because they would go out of business or get laid off. Yes I would be upset if said individuals only put in 73% of the effort. I would also not frequent their establishment again. Objectively, I would understand where they are coming from though. Although I would be mad at what they did, if I looked at it objectively, the grievance I would have would be with the thieves that force them to employ this strategy.

    I also see your points as well and they are well received. I personally think most people wouldn't even think of this concept as a viable form of protest but I like to think of concepts I don't feel have been touched on. Thanks for providing your criticism of this and I'll reflect on them as well.
    In the future there will be robots.

  3. #23

    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post

    Work overtime, earn more, they take more? Again, get between, take from one and give to the other. Slow down the productive person to finance the unproductive person? Ludicrous!


    Precisely! The person would have been better off not working overtime at all and taking that additional time worked for loftier pursuits.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    So what's the answer? Who would you rather be and to what degree would you choose to live it? Leach or leached?

    It would very from person to person. Some people are perfectly content with being fed on by parasites because "at least they're doing the right thing" Personally, I'll be the one to take myself out of the equation as much as possible. Going galt as much as possible while still enjoying first-world luxuries is the best strategy for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Personally? It's not cheating when the rules dictate the fruits of your labor are better purposed for the sake of others that chose different paths to different outcomes, in other words a system where the responsible and accountable subsidize the irresponsible and unaccountable.

    When you didn't make up the rules and you consistently vote for politics that would go against these rules but you're outvoted because democracy, then I just play the game to my advantage.


    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    The problem always boils down to the system and it's gross allocations of your earnings squandered on worthlessness while we scurry to pay for this burden afflicting us, often putting us in a higher tax bracket but lower living standards than those that leach off the system.

    Why would you work more to earn less? This is the result of our current system. There's people who don't even work at all and have a higher standard of living that I do because they also vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    We're in that cycle once again thanks to female empowerment and estrogen thinking.
    We only have this bizarro-world system because women vote. Woodrow Wilson and the progressive movement knew they could get their communist agenda passed giving women the vote. They were right.
    In the future there will be robots.

  4. #24
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Going galt as much as possible while still enjoying first-world luxuries is the best strategy for me.
    Money is power, cash is king, balls are the resource you need to get them both! Eat or be eaten, ride or get ridden, it's all binary and bias, where's the line? I guess it's where you want to draw it. Personally? Why not be king? It's a no-brainer! No arguments, no disagreements, everything goes your way or not at all! If the acronym MGTOW had balls, they'd be hanging somewhere there....

    When you didn't make up the rules and you consistently vote for politics that would go against these rules but you're outvoted because democracy, then I just play the game to my advantage.
    I don't vote where I live, you know, it's against the law as ordered. (Permanent injunction/CEASE AND DESIST.) CLOSED FOR ALL PURPOSES PUBLIC AND PRIVATE. There's no rules but your own rules under conditions that blossomed like this. Voting in a system that recklessly endangers all human life is a gross violation of self interests and personal constitutions to preserve their one and only human life, and the fact that it's a domestic threat and standing mockery of the US Constitution and it's amendments.

    Why would you work more to earn less? This is the result of our current system. There's people who don't even work at all and have a higher standard of living that I do because they also vote.
    It's not that we're throwing the system in the garbage can, the system is the garbage can! Why pick through the trash when you can stake you're own course bias to theirs? Salmon have mastered this art when they skip upstream to get where their nature is telling them to go. Just like a man skiing or surfing, there's awesome powers at play that can trigger an avalanche! Just gotta be quick and resourceful, and sometimes pray!

    I can't live a mundane life and I believe that's what drives MGTOW to disassociate from social expectations.
    A man's only "safe space" be in his sovereignty, free from the illusions and misconceptions of a unity that only serves to bind him to tyranny and perdition.

  5. #25
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    less government teaches people accountability and self reliance, directly in their faces, no back door, no safety net.
    In a society that respects hard and honest work, respects masculinity, there is a safety net. Its the availability of male guidance and male role models, from father, extended family or friends of family. The mature male will teach you things the hard way, he will not do sweet sugar coated talking when you fk up, you will be reminded the bad things and consequences if you do mistakes without any supervisor. And this will often come with some additional punishment, to help you remember the lesson.

    That is an amazing safety net in my opinion, though its not something you can easily get in modern society filled with simplords prostating themselves to their "goddesses".
    "Truth is enough." - Curt Doolittle
    "Truth, and violence to enforce it." - Eli Harman

  6. #26
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    In a society that respects hard and honest work, respects masculinity, there is a safety net. Its the availability of male guidance and male role models, from father, extended family or friends of family. The mature male will teach you things the hard way, he will not do sweet sugar coated talking when you fk up, you will be reminded the bad things and consequences if you do mistakes without any supervisor. And this will often come with some additional punishment, to help you remember the lesson.

    That is an amazing safety net in my opinion, though its not something you can easily get in modern society filled with simplords prostating themselves to their "goddesses".
    Agreed, My father taught me how to weave my own safety net, but that doesn't stop gov.vandals from cutting my strings to weave their net, a net that excludes me based on race, gender, and now origin.

    In other words, isolated, segregated, extracted. That's societies expectations, I'm not satisfying their expectations.
    A man's only "safe space" be in his sovereignty, free from the illusions and misconceptions of a unity that only serves to bind him to tyranny and perdition.

  7. #27
    Administrator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    I've always worked my job with building my own character in mind, and reaching my goals.

    While peers would call in sick to use their sick days instead of lose them, I'd work and not call in sick, and lose those days but have my character. While they'd call in sick before or after a holiday, I never did that. I had no interest in finding the sweet spot where low effort intersected paycheck, where many coworkers lived their work lives.

    I worked hard and worked well and was known for it. When it came time to carry a picket sign, I was carrying mine, knowing that I earned to be at the table to divvy up the take with my management.

    Bonobo, I know you mentioned some TV show and a fictitious character slacking but it would never cross my mind to model myself after anything except the best I give towards my own goals. I know what I want and always have known.

    If I paid The Man his taxes, then that's the cost of getting to my goal. I had the chance once of working 12-hour days for 5 years and I took it. The Man got lots of taxes out of me, and I worked hard, did my best, demonstrated qualities that my boss would notice and peers would emulate. Came out of it much ahead than if I didn't do it, and it helped me jet ahead. I've never wasted one drop of sweat on thoughts of the gynocracy around me when I am working towards my goals.

    That shit is just a given. Taxes is a given. Unfairness is a given. Life is a given. I can navigate anything.

    In my career, they got their pound of flesh out of me and I got through it. I'm now retired blue collar and I can say that, if I never earn another penny on any of my assets, I still have enough for 30+ years, to carry me to the finish line and then some.

    If I had lived other people's theologies, I'd be now living their results. I like my results much better. And I like my character, all the way through getting to here, while others are still mulling over competing ideas such as how to skate through life or how to Fuck The Man and all those head games. Me, I paid at the Toll Gates every time, kept my car in tune, and gunned it on the straightaways.

    So, no, I couldn't see slacking as a justice or justification. It would have been self-sabotage.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unboxxed View Post
    the sweet spot where low effort intersected paycheck
    I dont think the break even point of effort vs paycheck is the goal when you are trying to *morally* justify low effort. That will be used if you are going for *economic* justification.

    Moral justification, in my opinion, should be about intersection of your goals and priorities vs immoral transgression of external entities on your person or property. If you are working for a system, doing a job which does NOT align with your personal goals AND the system is being unfair to you, it is morally justified to put minimum effort, even if it goes below the above economic intersection point. Putting low effort will save your energy and possibly even time to focus on your own goals, put more effort there.

    This way of thinking goes on exactly same lines as the usual "be a man" thing for a simp husband and a parasitic wife who is only interested in leeching. At some point, its morally OK for husband to pull the plug on his efforts, even if it results disproportionate damage to the wife.
    "Truth is enough." - Curt Doolittle
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  9. #29

    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    This is a reason, why I like doing an hourly job over a salary job. I at least get paid for listening to people's stupid problems or issues, it's mostly women always having me fix something for them. Instead of getting paid a flat salary for doing a lot of extra work that might not pay off or overwork myself and get burned out. What also is frustrating in the workplace, is businesses say how they are looking out for women, what about the men, that do the work.

  10. #30
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Moral justification, in my opinion, should be about intersection of your goals and priorities vs immoral transgression of external entities on your person or property.
    Maybe so, but this depends on what your morals are and where they come from. An individual's sense of morality needs to come from the inside. It is about knowing who you are and what principles are important to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    If you are working for a system, doing a job which does NOT align with your personal goals AND the system is being unfair to you, it is morally justified to put minimum effort, even if it goes below the above economic intersection point. Putting low effort will save your energy and possibly even time to focus on your own goals, put more effort there.
    My take on this point is "If you are working for a system, doing a job which does NOT align with your personal goals AND the system is being unfair to you" get the fuck out of that job - it is not for you!

    My deciding to put in less effort is an affront to everything I believe about who I am and goes against everything that makes me me. How can it be otherwise?
    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  11. #31
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Maybe so, but this depends on what your morals are and where they come from. An individual's sense of morality needs to come from the inside. It is about knowing who you are and what principles are important to you.
    Exactly my point. Its never about 73% or 27%. It will all depend on the intensity of transgression on the individual and how far the individual wishes to go (and how far he CAN go).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    ..get the fuck out of that job - it is not for you!

    My deciding to put in less effort is an affront to everything I believe about who I am and goes against everything that makes me me. How can it be otherwise?
    Totally agree, but its not a kind of option always available. I am lucky enough in my life to choose whatever work I want to do (or no work at all), but I know several people who arent. They pick the job which is "least bad" out of very few options they have. But if you do have the option then yeah, I totally support your point of just getting out clean and work on your own thing full time.
    "Truth is enough." - Curt Doolittle
    "Truth, and violence to enforce it." - Eli Harman

  12. #32

    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Exactly my point. Its never about 73% or 27%. It will all depend on the intensity of transgression on the individual and how far the individual wishes to go (and how far he CAN go).



    Totally agree, but its not a kind of option always available. I am lucky enough in my life to choose whatever work I want to do (or no work at all), but I know several people who arent. They pick the job which is "least bad" out of very few options they have. But if you do have the option then yeah, I totally support your point of just getting out clean and work on your own thing full time.
    Do you think its better to have tried more or less jobs over a lifetime? What do you think about staying at a job for say 20 years?

  13. #33
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatoshadow2 View Post
    Do you think its better to have tried more or less jobs over a lifetime? What do you think about staying at a job for say 20 years?
    Cant say. I never really did a "salaried job". I only did contract work, where I had to build a software according to spec and was paid for doing it (plus some maintenance). And even there, I accept a contract only if the software to be written is for internal use by the employees of my client, or client himself, not the ones to be used by public in general. So I really have very limited experience of work environment to answer your question.
    "Truth is enough." - Curt Doolittle
    "Truth, and violence to enforce it." - Eli Harman

  14. #34
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    I don't know how old you are Bonobo, but I have been working for several years at a large multi-billion dollar corporation in the city of London.

    I can assure you, that I feel very similar to the way you feel and I would agree with a large chunk of what you say. I would disagree slightly with Jackoff, being 'busy' at work and taking 'pride' is good, but not when you are CLEARLY being exploited. That doesn't mean you do a shitty job - it means you do a satisfactory job - just enough to keep things moving.

    Let me give you an example. I work a very tough schedule, long hours, but pay is solid, and I am making large increases on my income every year. However, I will never make the managerial role. My suspicion is because of racism. And I do not mean to say 'White people are racist against ethnic minorities' because in my case the company I work for is actually full of non-White people. As an Arab, I will never be made manager. They just won't have it.

    So, taking this into account I am well justified in slacking off at work, more than justified. In your case, I think it may not racism but some other reason they don't take care of you. Whatever the reason of discrimination or exploitation, always remember that you never take on more than you can bear. Taxes or otherwise. You do what makes you feel comfortable, but care for the work you do, show up on time, be pleasant, but no more.

    If they want more, then the company must pay you more.

    You may have to use skills of manipulation, lying, misdirecting and so forth. This will be normal in any work place anyway.

    I used to work so hard in the first three years to establish myself, even at the cost of my health and well-being. And for what?
    I am of course still developing my skills outside the workplace and on the look out for better opportunities, but I do not kid myself that I will make it into a managerial position in this company.

    One more thing, regarding 'Morality'. I would suggest this word was invented and is not inherent in human civilisation. It was invented to keep the lower classes from wanting more. Think Kings in the Middle Ages and feudalism.

    Add on this another layer 'guilt', which is almost exclusively a male emotion. Women hardly ever feel guilt. And why should they? Don't feel guilty for taking care of yourself and taking the best things for yourself.

    Morality is about control. Those who preach morality, are often the ones who are the least moral.

    MGTOW cuts through the bullshit of morality and convention is so many ways, that is why we will be seen as enemies in any society.

    When morality and convention/tradition is thrown out, you being to think:

    Why pay on the first date?
    Why should I initiate a conversation with a women?
    Why should I work hard when my manager is exploiting me?
    Why should I be a 'good' upstanding citizen if my government is milking me through taxation?

    You being to ask 'why', you being to THINK! And thinking is something no one wants you to do, because it makes you a FREE man.

    One last thing about leaving a job you are dissatisfied with. This is easier said than done. You could leave your job and then go somewhere else, but what guarantee is there that you will not be used in the same way?

    I think this kind of impulsive thinking it too prevalent in MGTOW circles.
    A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

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  15. #35

    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Cant say. I never really did a "salaried job". I only did contract work, where I had to build a software according to spec and was paid for doing it (plus some maintenance). And even there, I accept a contract only if the software to be written is for internal use by the employees of my client, or client himself, not the ones to be used by public in general. So I really have very limited experience of work environment to answer your question.
    Not a worry, I've only worked two jobs in my young working life, so was just looking for other opinions on the matter.

  16. #36
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatoshadow2 View Post
    Do you think its better to have tried more or less jobs over a lifetime? What do you think about staying at a job for say 20 years?
    This all depends on personal motivations - and the job.

    If you are working for a big company, a multinational or the government say, sticking with the job can give security of tenure and bring opportunities for promotion.

    I have had a few differrent jobs in different areas and this brings a range of experiences not only in terms of work experience, self reliance and confidence in your ability to adapt to different situations but also in dealing with different types of people. On the down side it can have a massive impact on earning potential.
    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    All we can do is keep ourselves from all those who don't deserve it. Dave Matthes

  17. #37

    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatoshadow2 View Post
    Not a worry, I've only worked two jobs in my young working life, so was just looking for other opinions on the matter.
    Yes, great point, I just like staying somewhere, where the pay is stable and the work is in demand. Yes, I think eventually if someone is a job long enough, probably hit the earnings ceiling there.

    What's your guys opinion on calling in sick to work? Do you think it should ever be done, if you aren't sick, say for another day off?
    Last edited by Tomatoshadow2; February 21, 2020 at 2:08 AM.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Knarley Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    The ad said: Wanted, welder $15.00 - $25.00 / hour.
    A man turned in two welds for his test. One was full of pin holes, under cut, and just nasty.
    The other was a text book weld. Beautiful in every aspect.
    When asked what it was all about, the man explained...
    The first weld is $15.00 an hour......
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  19. #39
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    What's your guys opinion on calling in sick to work? Do you think it should ever be done, if you aren't sick, say for another day off?
    Again, this would depend on your workplace and the kind of relationship you have with your manager. In my case, it is extremely difficult to take a day off, they demand you bring in a sick note of some sort and will keep asking you 'how do you feel?' in a sly passive aggressive way.

    If you are working in an environment where these things are freely given, including paternal leave etc.. then I would say for sure, go for it. You'll have to make a calculated guess.
    A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

    Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
    Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

    The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself.

  20. #40

    Re: Is Slacking at Work Morally Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    Again, this would depend on your workplace and the kind of relationship you have with your manager. In my case, it is extremely difficult to take a day off, they demand you bring in a sick note of some sort and will keep asking you 'how do you feel?' in a sly passive aggressive way.

    If you are working in an environment where these things are freely given, including paternal leave etc.. then I would say for sure, go for it. You'll have to make a calculated guess.
    Yes absolutely agree, I've learned if you have a good relationship with them and don't call in a lot, they'll really appreciate you and not be concerned if you call in once or twice. Also, I agree, it seems like employers won't ever believe people if they are honestly sick, because so many people have taken advantage of calling in sick.


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    Replies: 8
    Last Post: October 28, 2014, 5:43 AM

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