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  1. #1
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    Question A Question On Criminal Justice?

    I read a news article earlier and it got me thinking:

    Woman jailed for rent supplement fraud

    I’ve put this in the Non-Mgtow section because even though this is about a female that’s not my beef for a change. This has happened with males too, perhaps even more so.

    Synopsis:

    Homeless woman found guilty of defrauding .Gov out of €27,079 over almost 3 years of rent supplement she wasn’t entitled to. She was given a jail term followed by probation.

    Fair enough.

    But it was this that caught my attention:

    Kavanagh has 67 previous convictions, including convictions for robbery, theft, production of a knife, public order and road traffic offences.
    My first reaction was “67 previous convictions”, what the hell is this person doing still roaming the streets?

    Then I remembered she’s homeless and has health problems:

    Judge Codd noted in mitigation that Kavanagh had difficult personal circumstances and significant medical and mental health problems.
    So then I looked at the “67” figure again and thought:

    This person is homeless, that alone will probably bring her in to contact with the law more often than most and probably explains the public order offences – being moved on and arguing;

    As for the knife, it’s probably for protection;

    And as for the theft, she may have seen it in terms of survival.

    Suddenly that “67” figure that so annoyed me earlier suddenly became almost meaningless (except for the theft, but when you’re down and out your priorities change – just saying)

    So here’s my quandary:

    We’ve all heard stories of the rich and powerful getting off lightly when convicted of crimes, that’s if they get convicted at all. This annoys me to put it mildly.

    If this story was about a wealthy guy or gal with 67 previous convictions I’d still be asking why is this piece of shit still on the street.

    So, if I’m prepared to make allowances for the person in this story then do I not then believe in a two tier system?

    If two tier, then why not three tier?

    The poor get allowances in the form of “circumstances” – they were fulfilling a basic need.

    The rich get allowances in the form of “circumstances” – they’re unlikely to do this again because they have no need to.

    The rest of us are fucked!

    This can’t be right, so I guess I’m back to ANYONE with 67 convictions shouldn’t be on the streets, at least not until after a lengthy jail term.

    But what of circumstances?

    If a rich man and a poor man are convicted of a small offense and given a fine of €500, how does this impact each individual? Maybe the fines should be proportional to their wealth in some way so the sentence carries equal weight?

    But if you go down this route, what of jail terms? Should the wealthy serve proportionately shorter sentences as they stand to lose more financially?

    Just a few thoughts.

    What morals are at play here?
    Last edited by Jackoff; May 21, 2021 at 2:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    There are several solutions to this, but all of those solutions require one thing : middle class men doing something united. And that something needs to be more than pansy ass, flag waving, selfie taking, slow march, for an hour or two, during weekends...

    But do we have ANY one person whom we can trust (in our own specific country) to organize and execute whatever the action is ? In rare case if the answer is yes, then how to ensure that the group is not infiltrated by any three letter agencies, and any such action will get nipped in the bud right away ?

    This is checkmate.
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    But do we have ANY one person whom we can trust (in our own specific country) to organize and execute whatever the action is ?
    Herein lies the problem. All trust must be attacked. Anyone that gains power and/or influence must be up to something other than what they claim.

    Unfortunately time and again this proves to be true. It makes it difficult to trust anyone you don’t know personally, and even then it’s not a given.

    As for middle class men coming together in a united front; with what message?

    “We’re the ones that keep the world working, stop fucking us in the ass!!!”

    I’m not being fatuous, I’m curious.

    Not so long ago this was the cry of the working class man, which raises the point is there such a thing as working class any more in the west?

    I was talking to a barmaid a few years ago and due to the general discussion described her as working class (as did I describe myself in the same sentence). She was incredibly insulted. Whilst I meant no insult – I saw the working class as hard workers that did what needed to be done, she saw the working class as low-life scum filled with criminals and wife-beaters and refused to be categorised with “them”.

    This saddened me.

  4. #4
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Herein lies the problem. All trust must be attacked. Anyone that gains power and/or influence must be up to something other than what they claim.

    Unfortunately time and again this proves to be true. It makes it difficult to trust anyone you don’t know personally, and even then it’s not a given.

    As for middle class men coming together in a united front; with what message?

    “We’re the ones that keep the world working, stop fucking us in the ass!!!”

    I’m not being fatuous, I’m curious.
    You are right on all of these. The problem is, if a large group is united under any leader/cause, they tend to win in a conflict. There several examples in history but best one is the case of Holy Roman Empire, its defeat from Napolean, and then eventually its victory over France AFTER getting unified under the banner of Prussia.

    Which brings me to the message for unity : War. War with other groups of people. And the same tragedy exists in war, it REQUIRES a despotic leader who rules by iron fist and doesnt have to deal with day to day bickerings of the individual's common interests.

    This concern is even reflected in the organization of Pirates. Normally captain wasnt much powerful, he was almost like a regular sailor. BUT during a chase or battle, he had absolute power. And this was the sole reason the captains existed. After any fighting, many things, like distribution of loot etc, was decided by the Quartermaster, not the captain. And the purpose of quartermaster was to keep the power of captain in check during peace.

    That is what I meant by 'trust'. Trust that a leader will function well in a war and carry the group to victory. This trust doesnt require that the leader will be good man and will not be a tyrant. Sadly not only middle class has any such trust in each other, but they are also too comfortable to be willing to fight. They would rather run away individually to a different place.

    Please note that I am not saying that they have a choice anyways. Not fighting and running away is the ONLY choice. The upper elites, and their puppets the lower (welfare) class, have got us trapped. Which is why I referred to this as checkmate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Not so long ago this was the cry of the working class man, which raises the point is there such a thing as working class any more in the west?

    I was talking to a barmaid a few years ago and due to the general discussion described her as working class (as did I describe myself in the same sentence). She was incredibly insulted. Whilst I meant no insult – I saw the working class as hard workers that did what needed to be done, she saw the working class as low-life scum filled with criminals and wife-beaters and refused to be categorised with “them”.

    This saddened me.
    While I agree there is nature of women in play there, but there is also a very valid fact that men tend to present in larger number on both sides of the spectrum on most things. Collect a large group of winners, and there will be more men in there. College a large group of random bums from the street, again there will be more men in there. Women tend to accumulate in the middle.

    So when you said working class, somehow I suspect it triggered an image of a destitute man who is doing hard labor because thats the only option in life he got.
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

  5. #5
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    That is what I meant by 'trust'. Trust that a leader will function well in a war and carry the group to victory. This trust doesnt require that the leader will be good man and will not be a tyrant.
    Ah, I think I see. You weren’t talking of trust in absolute terms, rather trusting them to get the job at hand done. Good point and one I’ll have to reflect on for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    While I agree there is nature of women in play there, but there is also a very valid fact that men tend to present in larger number on both sides of the spectrum on most things. Collect a large group of winners, and there will be more men in there. College a large group of random bums from the street, again there will be more men in there. Women tend to accumulate in the middle.
    I agree with this for the most part, but when it comes to homelessness there are other factors at play. For example, waiting lists for council housing are invariably biased in favour of women whether they have kids or not. Also there are many shelters that are reserved exclusively for women. This alone keeps many more of them than us off the street.

    When a man is homeless it is seen as his fault. When a woman is homeless then society is to blame.

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    So when you said working class, somehow I suspect it triggered an image of a destitute man who is doing hard labor because thats the only option in life he got.
    This is kind of what I was getting at. Although she actually referred to them as scum and criminals, it’s the image she had that bothered me.

    There used to be a pride in being working class:

    We’re rough and we’re tough. We work hard and that gives us the right to play hard, and we do. We’re not caught up in all this politically correct bullshit.

    But this seems to have changed. The working class, at least some of them, no longer like to think of themselves as working class. The term has become smeared by the P.C. brigade and they’re now buying in to it themselves.

  6. #6
    Senior Member stanmsl's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    You can easily drive yourself to the point of insanity by applying simple logic and reasoning to the justice system.


    I'll start with the most obvious......Women getting lesser punishments for the same crime as men.
    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/woman-glas...094749502.html


    The concept of "hate crime" where beating up someone walking home from gay pride is somehow worse than the exact same beating of someone for wearing the "wrong" football shirt. If your a non religious, straight, white male you are out of luck.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    My first reaction was “67 previous convictions”, what the hell is this person doing still roaming the streets?

    If a person is punished multiple times and still keeps commiting the same crime then it's obvious that punishment doesn't work and needs to be increased, almost never happens.


    Police won't punish certain crimes, my sister works in retail and says unless shop lifters steal more than 100 pounds worth of goods the police will do nothing even after being provided with CCTV footage. A license to steal as long as you do it little and often.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    If a rich man and a poor man are convicted of a small offense and given a fine of €500, how does this impact each individual? Maybe the fines should be proportional to their wealth in some way so the sentence carries equal weight?

    I do believe this happens with drink driving in some Scandinavian countries. I agree with this but it does not happen as much as it should.


    Some crimes are far easier to solve than others such as speeding motorists, where if you get your house broken into the police do little beyond giving you a crime number to claim on your insurance.


    Mitigating circumstances, a person who has broken into dozens of houses ends up in court. Part of the defense will be that they were addicted to drugs so get a lesser punishment (usually rehab). The reality is that they were commiting 2 crimes (using illegal drugs) not 1. Women will often use post natal depression to similar effect.


    Other offences "taken into consideration", Someone breaks into 25 houses but there is only enough evidence to charge that person with 10 of then. He admits to those other 15 offences before going to prison and gets little or no extra punishment. Effectively wiping his slate clean for when he gets out.


    For those interested I highly recommend reading the book "wasting police time" by David Copperfield. A former police officer who wrote an inside expose on the British justice system.
    Men are becoming MGTOW by the millions, most without ever having heard the term. They are simply doing what all living organisms finding themselves in a toxic environment do. They adapt to it or remove themselves from it. Females are not liking either the adaptations or the removal.

    ,TWITTER FEED BLOG

  7. #7
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    From The Article

    A woman glassed a pub-goer in the face and left him needing 27 stitches, a court was told.

    Cardiff Crown Court heard the incident had led to Davies losing his job and the relationship with the mother of his son.

    McMillan, from Newport, was handed a 15-month suspended prison sentence over the incident, which happened in the summer of 2019.
    So, he gets viciously attacked and as a consequence loses his job and connection (presumably) to his kid.

    She gets a slap on the wrist.

    From The Article

    Judge Jeremy Jenkins said: "You lashed out at Mr Davies. In your hand at the time was a glass which struck his face with some force."
    What a fucked up statement this is. So she didn’t realise she was glassing him in the face while she was glassing him in the face?

    Jeremy needs to have a cold hard look at himself. What a disgusting piece of shit he is.

    Edit: Unless the quote is taken out of context. He may have been asking her if this was her position.

  8. #8
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    I agree with this for the most part, but when it comes to homelessness there are other factors at play. For example, waiting lists for council housing are invariably biased in favour of women whether they have kids or not. Also there are many shelters that are reserved exclusively for women. This alone keeps many more of them than us off the street.

    When a man is homeless it is seen as his fault. When a woman is homeless then society is to blame.
    I see. Though I had mostly the image of indian slums in my mind, when I said "bums from the street". A large group of random people from some slum, which you can find in plenty here. Or any sufficiently large group. In my school/college days, the dumbest, most retarded students were males, and so were the smartest (the actual smart, not the high scorer rote learner).

    Quote Originally Posted by stanmsl View Post
    You can easily drive yourself to the point of insanity by applying simple logic and reasoning to the justice system.
    ...
    If your a non religious, straight, white male you are out of luck.
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    What a fucked up statement this is. So she didn’t realise she was glassing him in the face while she was glassing him in the face?
    That is the thing. To make any sense of the "justice system", you need to view it as a slow methodical war. Or genocide, which is probably more accurate. The problem is, the moment you see it as war, you will realize how divided and vulnerable we are, as opposed to the whole establishment.

    And suddenly all these laws and customs will start make sense, immediately. I mean look at covid laws in US. The rich and powerful get the free pass from all that as they usually do, and then on the other end (welfare class), they can just join the BLM and go around looting and burning.
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

  9. #9
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by stanmsl View Post
    Police won't punish certain crimes, my sister works in retail and says unless shop lifters steal more than 100 pounds worth of goods the police will do nothing even after being provided with CCTV footage. A license to steal as long as you do it little and often.
    I find this enlightening. It was my understanding that in the U.K. the onus for pressing charges was often on the victim. If they wanted to proceed then the cops got on board even if they thought it futile.

    Is it that they refuse to proceed or that they encourage you not to proceed?

  10. #10
    Senior Member stanmsl's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    I find this enlightening. It was my understanding that in the U.K. the onus for pressing charges was often on the victim. If they wanted to proceed then the cops got on board even if they thought it futile. Is it that they refuse to proceed or that they encourage you not to proceed?
    Combination of both, it's nothing unusual to report a small crime like a theft and the police take 3 days just to reply. Most of the time shoplifters when arrested are given a "talking to" then back on the streets robbing again within hours.
    Men are becoming MGTOW by the millions, most without ever having heard the term. They are simply doing what all living organisms finding themselves in a toxic environment do. They adapt to it or remove themselves from it. Females are not liking either the adaptations or the removal.

    ,TWITTER FEED BLOG

  11. #11
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by stanmsl View Post
    Combination of both, it's nothing unusual to report a small crime like a theft and the police take 3 days just to reply. Most of the time shoplifters when arrested are given a "talking to" then back on the streets robbing again within hours.
    Man times have changed.

    I grew up in Northern Ireland, legally a part of the U.K. regardless of how my people personally identify.

    When I was in my late teens (an adult) I was caught shoplifting a few pairs of socks and I ended up in front of the man. Shop security were obviously in contact with the cops and they (cops) stopped me within minutes of leaving the shop. There was no question of running. Fuck side arms, these guys carried machine guns as a matter of course and were willing to use them. (As was my perception, but maybe this belittles their own dilemmas.)

    I eventually wised up, but years later I was burgled (poetic justice?).

    When my home was burgled whilst I was at work I obviously had to report it to the cops for insurance reasons. I had no expectations of getting my shit back (and didn’t), but I had to go through the motions.

    The cops were there within about an hour / hour and a half. A long time some might think but it wasn’t an active scene and in those days, because of where I lived they had to arrange an army escort. These things take time.

    But days? After 3 days (as you say) evidence is contaminated and the perps are long gone. What’s the point?

    Dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s I suppose – covering their asses!

  12. #12
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Man times have changed.

    I grew up in Northern Ireland, legally a part of the U.K. regardless of how my people personally identify.

    When I was in my late teens (an adult) I was caught shoplifting a few pairs of socks and I ended up in front of the man. Shop security were obviously in contact with the cops and they (cops) stopped me within minutes of leaving the shop. There was no question of running. Fuck side arms, these guys carried machine guns as a matter of course and were willing to use them. (As was my perception, but maybe this belittles their own dilemmas.)

    I eventually wised up, but years later I was burgled (poetic justice?).

    When my home was burgled whilst I was at work I obviously had to report it to the cops for insurance reasons. I had no expectations of getting my shit back (and didn’t), but I had to go through the motions.

    The cops were there within about an hour / hour and a half. A long time some might think but it wasn’t an active scene and in those days, because of where I lived they had to arrange an army escort. These things take time.

    But days? After 3 days (as you say) evidence is contaminated and the perps are long gone. What’s the point?

    Dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s I suppose – covering their asses!
    Smith & Wesson don't take an hour, hour and a half!

    S&W stops them dead in their tracks!
    If government forces an experimental vaccine on you it's citizen, sure as hell's hot, it will assume it has the obligation to make all your medical decisions.

  13. #13
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Smith & Wesson don't take an hour, hour and a half!

    S&W stops them dead in their tracks!
    Now we talkin' !
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

  14. #14
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Now we talkin' !
    Do you really think I'd shoot someone?

    Only once?
    If government forces an experimental vaccine on you it's citizen, sure as hell's hot, it will assume it has the obligation to make all your medical decisions.

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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Smith & Wesson don't take an hour, hour and a half!

    S&W stops them dead in their tracks!
    True, but ya gotta get 'em in your sight's first. I was at work away from the scene of the crime!

    Maybe I shudda had some auto-turrets?

  16. #16
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    True, but ya gotta get 'em in your sight's first. I was at work away from the scene of the crime!
    That's easy! 12ga with the trigger tied to the door knob.
    If government forces an experimental vaccine on you it's citizen, sure as hell's hot, it will assume it has the obligation to make all your medical decisions.

  17. #17
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Do you really think I'd shoot someone?

    Only once?
    I dont know... the things you say, I imagine your house to be a heavily sandbagged bunker with mounted machine guns like in the movies, the area around your house to be heavily mined, both anti-personal and anti-armor, and you probably have a deep underground installation with all kinds of escape hatches and booby traps !!
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    I dont know... the things you say, I imagine your house to be a heavily sandbagged bunker with mounted machine guns like in the movies, the area around your house to be heavily mined, both anti-personal and anti-armor, and you probably have a deep underground installation with all kinds of escape hatches and booby traps !!
    Well, he has to protect his Gucci shit!

  19. #19
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    I dont know... the things you say, I imagine your house to be a heavily sandbagged bunker with mounted machine guns like in the movies, the area around your house to be heavily mined, both anti-personal and anti-armor, and you probably have a deep underground installation with all kinds of escape hatches and booby traps !!
    You left out the plasma cannon...
    If government forces an experimental vaccine on you it's citizen, sure as hell's hot, it will assume it has the obligation to make all your medical decisions.

  20. #20
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: A Question On Criminal Justice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Well, he has to protect his Gucci shit!
    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    You left out the plasma cannon...
    I am not finished yet...

    Maybe at the end of the installation under his house, we will reach some ancient door, leading to some lost underground city of some ancient civilization unknown to us !!!

    Then somewhere deep down in those dark and unstable labyrinths, we find an ornate door, guarding some alien artifact, which happens to be a teleporter to all the remaining eight worlds of the norse myths !!!
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.


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