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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb [Opinion] Has Christianity weakened or strengthened the west?

    Yesterday I watched the Passion of Christ with a devout Christian friend of mine. Now I've always been aware of this but this movie really brought home the point that a huge part of Christianity is about "love thy next" and even "love thy enemy". Imo these concepts have greatly weakened Europe. Now love thy next is not that much of problem when it's interpreted "right" - i.e. love your neighbours and your countrymen. When it devolves into this multicultural bullshit aka "love everyone" then it does turn into a problem though. For instance, when about 80% of the population of your country thinks it's right to accept fake "refugees" for "humanitarian" reasons and doesn't even question the validity of their asylum status.
    But even worse, there's this concept of "love thy enemy". Now this is already a big issue when it comes to just letting your countrymen throw you under the bus and doing NOTHING about it except maybe to just avoid them. We all know this will be perceived as weakness and weakness breeds contempt. This will then lead to further assaults, it will NOT make your enemy respect you for not fighting back.
    But it is an even worse weakness when you're facing an invading enemy. Ask yourselves: Where did all the Christians go? Did the Armenians in Turkey just "vanish"? Where did all the Christians in Syria go? It used to be a majority Christian country. What about Lebanon?
    We see the same shit happening over and over again, Christians get killed, forcefully converted or subjugated. They get turned from majority populations into minority populations. Is it perhaps the fault of Christianity itself that Christians get pretty much wiped out anywhere where there's an aggressive enemy?
    In Europe we used to be pagan. Virtually every pagan religion had a god of war. We literally worshipped war. How easy of an enemy were we to subjugate, I ask you? And look at our pussyfooted approach to muslim invaders now.
    In a homogenous society that protects its borders perhaps Christianity would have a positive influence. But as it is now I think Christianity is a thorn in our foot, a backstabbing communist seeking to destroy us, rather than an asset for our civilization.
    Thoughts?

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    Re: [Opinion] Has Christianity weakened or strengthened the west?

    You forgot the first part of that verse; "Love God with all of your heart ... This is the FIRST, and GREATEST commandment."

    If loving your enemy gets in the way of loving God, then that Christian must set his priorities straight.

    The problem lies not in Christianity. But White Guilt, and the noisy minority fighting to condemn white people for whatever reason.

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    Re: [Opinion] Has Christianity weakened or strengthened the west?

    Roman paganism worked great. It united the empire. Gibbon points out that a pagan from one end of the empire could visit a place at the other end and still be cool with the local gods and view then as being as legit as his own.

    The difficulty is that pagan polytheism is clearly childish bullshit. All these different permutations of gods were "To the peasant, equally true; to the philosopher, equally false; and to the magistrate, equally useful".

    Monotheism makes a little more sense. But the idea that there is one god and that specifically wants certain definite things make it difficult to come to terms with other people's cultures. The history of the monotheistic religions is a history of its schisms.

    So, to secular atheism. Which makes a lot of sense, too. The problem is that it can't answer the violence of the religious.

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    Re: [Opinion] Has Christianity weakened or strengthened the west?

    So, to secular atheism. Which makes a lot of sense, too. The problem is that it can't answer the violence of the religious.
    Well yeah obviously. This was meant more in a "can defend civilization" vs. "cannot defend civilization" kind of way. Both monotheistic and pagan religions can be "useful", but both are hard to believe for atheists such as you and myself.
    All that aside, I kind of wish we could return to some of our pagan rituals. After all we celebrate Christmas without really believing in it and many parts of it already have their origin in the Yule celebrations. Without human/animal sacrifice of course.

    If loving your enemy gets in the way of loving God, then that Christian must set his priorities straight.
    There is some resistance but churches these days are full of marxist bullshit. Just look at this Pope who kisses Muslim invaders' feet!

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    Re: [Opinion] Has Christianity weakened or strengthened the west?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aintdealingwithyoshit View Post
    Well yeah obviously. This was meant more in a "can defend civilization" vs. "cannot defend civilization" kind of way. Both monotheistic and pagan religions can be "useful", but both are hard to believe for atheists such as you and myself.
    All that aside, I kind of wish we could return to some of our pagan rituals. After all we celebrate Christmas without really believing in it and many parts of it already have their origin in the Yule celebrations. Without human/animal sacrifice of course.


    There is some resistance but churches these days are full of marxist bullshit. Just look at this Pope who kisses Muslim invaders' feet!
    Agreed. The pope is not acting as he should ...

  6. #6

    Re: [Opinion] Has Christianity weakened or strengthened the west?

    Christianity didn't weaken the West. Feminism did.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MErnRJluMQE

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    Re: [Opinion] Has Christianity weakened or strengthened the west?

    I don’t think your assertion is supported by history. Europe was first Christianized during the Late Classical period and Early Middle Ages. During the next 1500 years, Christians defeated a major Islamic army at the Battle of Tours (732), and finally completed the Reconquista of Iberia in 1492. Also, during the Middle Ages, there were repeated Crusades to recapture the Holy Land. After 1500, and until the 1900’s, Europe managed to colonize most of the world.

    While Christianity has many sects or “flavors”, based on the historical evidence it can hardly be characterized as a “weak” or “effeminate” religion. On the contrary, I would argue that it was the growing secularization of Europe in the latter 19th century, and all the “-isms” which came in its wake (Marxism, Feminism, Atheism, Nihilism & etc.) which has led to its social and cultural degeneration.

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    Re: [Opinion] Has Christianity weakened or strengthened the west?

    I think you are conflating Christian countries with actual Christian beliefs.
    Again, if Christianity was a stable belief system, where did all the majority Christian countries go to? The countries and the people didn't disappear, only Christianity.
    And Christians themselves have confirmed to me that they would not fight against armed muzzies. They'd literally let themselves get slaughtered by their mortal enemy just because some Jesus allegedly told them to. Granted, not all Christians think this way (as is healthy and normal) but they certainly are not doing anything wrong according to scripture when they think this way.

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    Re: [Opinion] Has Christianity weakened or strengthened the west?

    Sorry AWS, but since the holidays are over, this shall have to be my last post for some time: While you accuse me of conflating countries with beliefs, I would argue that the predominate religion of any country is bound to have an effect both on its society and its political policies. Therefore, to deny Christianity a central role in the predominance of Europe for many centuries is too disregard the importance of belief systems in general.

    Without the Christian tendency to believe in a rational God who created a rational world—a world which could be understood by men—it is highly dubious that either the scientific or industrial revolutions could have occurred in Europe. Hence, without Christianity, Europe would have remained a backwater in the flow of world history.

    As for the decline of Christianity, and the growing secularization of Europe and the West, I suppose this could be interpreted as a manifestation of its “weakness”. Just like the pagan religions that went before it, Christianity may be an imperfect attempt to reconcile elements whose antagonisms are too strong for the solution thus proposed. And if it’s destined to fall, it shall be from the development of its own internal contradictions, as much as from any external invasion. In the secular march of man, it seems doubtful that any religion, any world-view, can provide us with a permanent resting place.
    Last edited by Mystic Rodent; January 2, 2018 at 6:24 PM.

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    Re: [Opinion] Has Christianity weakened or strengthened the west?

    In the secular march of man, it seems doubtful that any religion, any world-view, can provide us with a permanent resting place.
    With that I certainly can wholeheartedly agree. It is just regrettable that what used to reinforce functioning family units is now increasingly becoming absent from our daily lives. But of course this absence also has benefits of its own. Perhaps in the future we will have a new kind of religion: The religion of transhumanism. In a way, man might try to become god himself - or he will try to create a godlike AI as a substitute for our lost old gods. Whatever is going to happen, at least one thing is certain: we won't live in boring times. And I guess there are worse things than that


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