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  1. #1
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    What do you think about Karma?

    I was thinking about the amount of suffering that I experience on a daily basis, and how much of a "struggle" life is. Not having enough money, being stuck in a dead end job, working hard to make someone else rich, being exploited by women etc etc.

    I am sure we have all experienced this to one extent or another. Of course there are those who are well off and experience less suffering.

    But, I was thinking about this notion of Karma. Some say that the reason I suffer is because I must have done something "bad" in my past, or in a previous life?

    I tend to stay away from this kind of mysticism. But I was wondering what the collective thought on this?

    Are we on this earth to "atone for our sins" as the christians would say?
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  2. #2
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    I was thinking about the amount of suffering that I experience on a daily basis, and how much of a "struggle" life is. Not having enough money, being stuck in a dead end job, working hard to make someone else rich, being exploited by women etc etc.

    I am sure we have all experienced this to one extent or another. Of course there are those who are well off and experience less suffering.

    But, I was thinking about this notion of Karma. Some say that the reason I suffer is because I must have done something "bad" in my past, or in a previous life?

    I tend to stay away from this kind of mysticism. But I was wondering what the collective thought on this?

    Are we on this earth to "atone for our sins" as the christians would say?
    I got a line of scripture that may help you, it helps me to cope without loosing my fucking mind and starting my own personal war on everything!

    Matthew 5:45: "that ye may be the children of your Father who is in Heaven. For He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.


    Like me, Opaque, must be sick and fucking tired of being SOAKED ALL THE TIME!

    I pray for GILLS!
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  3. #3
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    Re: What do you think about Karma?

    First, an answer to your question: No. We are not on this earth to “atone for our sins”. I cannot emphasise this enough: NO.

    This is a line of thought fraught with many dangers – I know. I know because I went down that dark road and nothing but misery lay there.

    Sometimes we like to think that we are in total control of our lives. This is obviously wrong but the feeling persists nevertheless. If we are in control then it follows that we are responsible for – everything. We know this is wrong but again the feeling persists. So we look for an answer.

    So enter concepts such as Karma, religion and many other philosophies.

    We are told by physics that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. This is the law.

    This seems to support the Karma theory until you take into account all the unknown variables. There are simply too many variables at play in the real world for anyone to account for them all, never mind looking outside to the mystical.

    We are who we are. We are not victims of some unseen and unknown fate. We make our way and in doing so we make mistakes. This is inevitable. With mistakes, real or imagined, comes reflection but even this cannot explain everything because we cannot hope to understand ALL THE VARIABLES.

    All that said, with regards Karma specifically, I really am unsure. If, however, it does exist I like to think of it this way:

    Rather than being punished for former actions, Karma puts us in the place we need to be to learn something of value. Sometimes this education comes at a cost but in the end, if you pay attention, life does improve.

    Vastly.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

  4. #4
    Senior Member stanmsl's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Sometimes we like to think that we are in total control of our lives. This is obviously wrong but the feeling persists nevertheless. If we are in control then it follows that we are responsible for – everything. We know this is wrong but again the feeling persists. So we look for an answer..
    I agree Karma = Wishful thinking, the idea that there's some sort of cosmic scoreboard.
    Men are becoming MGTOW by the millions, most without ever having heard the term. They are simply doing what all living organisms finding themselves in a toxic environment do. They adapt to it or remove themselves from it. Females are not liking either the adaptations or the removal.

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  5. #5
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    But, I was thinking about this notion of Karma. Some say that the reason I suffer is because I must have done something "bad" in my past, or in a previous life?

    I tend to stay away from this kind of mysticism. But I was wondering what the collective thought on this?

    Are we on this earth to "atone for our sins" as the christians would say?
    A very nice topic, this is something I must believe one must ponder over once a while.

    @Opaque, while our ways of dealing with various issues in life are very different, I hope my thoughts on this can be useful (or atleast entertaining), just like I find everyone's thoughts on this topic quite interesting.

    But a disclaimer, I do recognize this thing called luck. If you are born with some defect, that defect is going to stay. Regardless of if you call it a defect or not, regardless of if you are actually hampered by it or not, and regardless of how depressive (or joyful) you find it. Eg: if you are born color blind, then I will fully agree, that this particular person's luck, in terms of vision of his eye, is a little less than the luck of a person born with normal vision.

    And by luck I mean something I cannot change. I can try to fix the situation by other means, but not remove it. Thus if the question asked is WHY some people have bad luck, all I can say is either or both : 1. random genetic variations 2. i really dont know. But, I do believe that not all bad (or good) things in life is luck, there is karma, and I have a very earthly notion for that.

    I believe that there can be three kinds of decisions, bad decisions, okay decisions and GOOD decisions. Bad decisions are bad, nothing to see there, you go down that road, you fk yourself up, plain and simple. But the distinction between "okay" and "good" is something to be considered. An okay decision is good enough, easy to understand, easy to follow, and atleast give good returns in short term or in medium term. But a GOOD decision might give bad results in short term, may be difficult to understand or implement, but it gives HUGE returns on investment some time later, maybe few years later.

    So taking a good decision is like inflicting pain on yourself, but at the same time, sending a gift to your future self. And I believe that if you keep a steady pace of good decisions, there will come a point in life where all the gifts will start arriving, and you will be really glad that you took those decisions. Its almost like I am the parent of my future self. I am young, can endure pain, but my older self wont be like me, he will be weaker, less willing to endure pain, so I must take care of him now, starting with right now.

    One problem I see with my thought is, that to the people who are not young, this offers no solution. If they failed to send gifts to their older self when they were young, and now they have no capacity to do that, then the ship has sailed. Better to prepare for whatever it is to come and try to find solutions to problem as and when they happen.
    Last edited by rkspsm; July 10, 2020 at 7:17 AM. Reason: typo
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  6. #6

    Re: What do you think about Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    I was thinking about the amount of suffering that I experience on a daily basis, and how much of a "struggle" life is. Not having enough money, being stuck in a dead end job, working hard to make someone else rich, being exploited by women etc etc.

    I am sure we have all experienced this to one extent or another. Of course there are those who are well off and experience less suffering.

    But, I was thinking about this notion of Karma. Some say that the reason I suffer is because I must have done something "bad" in my past, or in a previous life?

    I tend to stay away from this kind of mysticism. But I was wondering what the collective thought on this?

    Are we on this earth to "atone for our sins" as the christians would say?
    In my opinion, karma simply means consequences of actions ( or inaction ) . I think the reason why the concept is much maligned is because like mgtower indicated, the good and bad are all subject to the vagaries of life . I think, a lot of time we seem to regard unpleasant experiences as a negative, maybe it's tied to infancy, when discomfort highlighted our inability to deal with the challenges of everyday existence; like hunger, pain, cold, heat e.t.c .But we usually fail to unlearn those mental patterns that associate discomfort with suffering or helplessness .

    I always like to refer to the major difference between starvation and fasting is the element of choice but if you delve a little deeper, it's not so much the choice but the mental state of the person . So a man can give the last morsel to his child due to physical constraints but still be in a mental state equivalent to fasting ( sorry for going off on a tangent, but it will help to clarify my point ) .So yes, while I agree with the fact that pain is not pleasant and it affects all, it would do some good if we clarified what a good/ bad person is .

    The way I see it, a good person is one who acts consciously while a bad person is merely someone who has left aspects of their life to chance and fail to take responsibility for the outcomes, hence when a situation presents itself, they will always be at a deficit because they have overlaid an illusion on reality . A good person can still be taken unawares but his nature doesn't change because the compass of identity is always firmly pointed in the right direction while the bad person lives only for sensory stimulation and hence an avoidance of any form of discomfort is the meaning they attribute to life; the truth is life would become a bland fantasy if pain were eliminated .

    So karma could be regarded as the sum total of our being . Some people think it's enough to just be kind or have positive values, but if you don't act in the capacity that other's also have free will, it becomes merely trying to passive aggressively enforce one's vision on others . Being kind is no excuse to stay in an abusive relationship, being virtuous is no excuse to allow one's self to be manipulated into being a doormat . As humans, while we might all be at different points in our moral development, it is the karma incurred by good people's arrogance for trying to deny the agency of bad actors that results in societal decay . So insulating people from the consequences of their decisions is not a good act, as you are hindering them from growing and also making it possible for them to abuse others, thus hindering the moral development of those with a fragile morality. It could be as simple as walking away from their abuse, not offering advice or even financial aid .
    Unintended consequences are always conveniently ignored but they are just as important as the intended .
    Until it is understood that being good is actually the best way to structure a society, one is best off not propping up the sociopaths and psychopaths in our midst. Thats why virtue signalling has become a dirty word, same as nice guy; people now see it as an angle to work in a scam and not a way to build healthy interactions.

    To conclude, I don't think one has to view karma from a mystical perspective to appreciate it's value, merely accepting that all we do or don't do, eventually produce results which we call the future ( or karma ) is adequate.

    Cheers

  7. #7
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think about Karma?

    Strictly pragmatic, Karma is binary. It's cause and effect. The only difference, are you able to recognize its very simple algorithms? Or are you nearsighted from narcissism? Selfish people come to tragic ends, that's karma. Live dangerously, take unnecessary risks, ignore good advice, suffer the consequences, that's karma.

    Good karma comes from good mine sweeping, bad karma comes from carelessly running through a minefield, ignoring the blood and guts raining down on you that were once your friends! Shit you not, we played the same game and paid much different prices! My luck (karma's monkey wrench) is hammered down to micron thin! I'm afraid to breath on it!

    I know my luck ran out decades ago, that's why I sit here perfectly still, with my legs hanging over Karma's Cliff! Not many have survived to tell about the view, here on Karma Vista!
    It's 1939 allover again, and we're the ones being assigned gold stars!

  8. #8
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    Re: What do you think about Karma?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    So taking a good decision is like inflicting pain on yourself, but at the same time, sending a gift to your future self. And I believe that if you keep a steady pace of good decisions, there will come a point in life where all the gifts will start arriving, and you will be really glad that you took those decisions. Its almost like I am the parent of my future self. I am young, can endure pain, but my older self wont be like me, he will be weaker, less willing to endure pain, so I must take care of him now, starting with right now.
    Heed this ↑.

    I made a recent post about how things just seem to work out for me these days; when the shit hits the fan I seem to get what I need to avoid the worst of it. While this sometimes feels almost magical (seriously) I believe it really boils down to having made good decisions in the past.

    For a large part this means being friendly with the right people. Who are the right people? That’s the question isn’t it, and let me assure you I’ve made some real fuck-ups here.

    The RIGHT people IMO has nothing to do with social status. I like to befriend those that still believe that one good turn deserves another, whether that be in the form of action or advice, but won’t use this concept to abuse you by trying to get you to do things against your nature or beliefs – “Hey man, you owe me!”.

    In other words – dependable! You know the guys I mean; they may not be able to help but if they can they will. And you don’t have to be best mates with them either, just knowing them well enough to be able to say: “Here, this thing is happening and you know about this, what do you think?” is all it takes.

    When choosing friends political and societal differences mean little to me compared to whether or not I feel I can trust them. Thankfully I am of an age where trustworthy people still exist.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin


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