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  1. #1
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    Who are the illuminati?

    I’ve started a new thread because this question is derailing another thread. So, if you have an opinion please put it here rather than there.

    Unfortunately we don't have Unboxxed here to take the time and effort to split this up into two different threads, so I do this instead. Unfortunately this may mean a bit of repetition, ah well.


    Definition:

    illuminati
    /ɪˌl(j)uːmɪˈnɑːti/
    noun
    plural noun: illuminati

    people claiming to possess special enlightenment or knowledge of something. "some mysterious standard known only to the illuminati of the organization”

    a sect of 16th-century Spanish heretics who claimed special religious enlightenment. noun:Illuminatus; plural proper noun: Illuminati

    a Bavarian secret society founded in 1776, organized like the Freemasons. noun: Illuminati

    Definition from Oxford Languages.
    But this is only part of what is talked of about the Illuminati, so maybe we should say which definition we’re talking about.

    I watched a few vids a number of years ago (Makes me an expert, right? Does it fuck!) about the concept of an illuminati. The implication was that was a SMALL group of individuals are making major decisions that impact the lives of everyone else. And when I say small, I’m talking dozens maybe hundreds, and that these are mostly businessmen rather than politicians.

    Also, the impression I got was that they were doing it in a deliberate way, like a formal meeting rather than a get together in the party sense where people happened to exchange ideas.

    This is where I’m coming from when I talk about the Illuminati.

    Whilst I am very aware that there are forces at work, this definition of Illuminati is one I cannot accept. There are too many forces at work to explain it this simply.
    Last edited by Jackoff; May 24, 2021 at 8:05 PM.
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    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    As a continuation of what I wrote in my post of earlier thread : https://www.goingyourownway.com/mgto...96/#post158896

    I'd say illuminati is a distraction. What happybachelor and me were pointing towards by speaking "they" or "them", is not illuminati or any such fictional group of people, but a very real group of people.

    Their power is very real too, which you can even test (gather evidence) easily. Try writing their name and speaking about their problems, and watch the reaction of the mods.

    Yes, that group of people has some problems, which exacerbate when a small number of them reach to very powerful positions. That problem has proposed solutions. No not the ones which are already tried many times before, but a very civilized and peaceful solution. But whats the point, if even their name cant be taken then I am damn sure the problems and their solutions cannot be discussed.

    Different groups of people do have their problems, specific to that group. Which means a large number of people in that group show that problem to some extent and their elites show it to a great extent. We can discuss problems about other groups easily. We can talk about the problem with whites MOST easily, but we can also talk about the problems with islam, indians, chinese, etc... but not "THEM".

    Let me state one problem with whites, a very genuine problem. The European Whites, while being very powerful militarily, dont practice "total war". Other groups like muslims and chinese, do practice that. Total war means war on all fronts, not just physical, but also cultural, institutional, etc. In that war, all civilians are combatants. They will defend their race, their culture, norms, traditions against foreign influence, and its not a taboo to discuss about any form of aggression by any other group of people within their community.

    And because of this weakness, the whites are losing the war of 21st century, one household at a time, one family at a time.... or should I say, one blue pilled man at a time.

    The only other group which has shown as much tolerance as the European Whites, albeit not having much military strength (over the course of history) are Hindus. But there are signs that this is changing, some hindus are getting very conscious about this. It remains to be seen how far it goes.
    If you dont understand recursion yet, read this sentence again.

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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Let me state one problem with whites, a very genuine problem. The European Whites, while being very powerful militarily, dont practice "total war". Other groups like muslims and chinese, do practice that. Total war means war on all fronts, not just physical, but also cultural, institutional, etc. In that war, all civilians are combatants. They will defend their race, their culture, norms, traditions against foreign influence, and its not a taboo to discuss about any form of aggression by any other group of people within their community.
    Forgive me, but I think this is a mistaken perception.

    “The winning of hearts and minds” is a common refrain in the military mind-set and I think is understood by the general populace.

    Whilst I admit we (generally speaking) don’t advocate total war; total war to us (sorry, to me) includes things like genocide and chemical/ biological weapons.

    But there are those that do advocate such things.

    The winning of hearts and minds is the preference, but other tools are available and will be deployed if deemed necessary.

    I mean this not as a threat, but simply as a description of how I see things possibly playing out.
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain.

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    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Forgive me, but I think this is a mistaken perception.

    “The winning of hearts and minds” is a common refrain in the military mind-set and I think is understood by the general populace.

    Whilst I admit we (generally speaking) don’t advocate total war; total war to us (sorry, to me) includes things like genocide and chemical/ biological weapons.

    But there are those that do advocate such things.

    The winning of hearts and minds is the preference, but other tools are available and will be deployed if deemed necessary.
    Yes, the genocide is happening, right now.... of the whites. Its just not as visible as chemical and biological holocaust, and slow enough to not cause any sudden outburst. Any smaller "incidents" can easily be cancelled or "epsteined" based on the severity.

    And other tools ?? Who has those other tools ? The people ? Nope. Outside US, the people dont have anything. Remember that post from stanmsl in that other thread ? Where the police wont even bother if the crime is low. But they WILL bother if you take the matter in your own hands and deal with the criminal somehow.

    And in the US, yes people have those tools. But guess what... there is a very methodical way to deal with that situation. Boiling frog + Controlled opposition...

    I have heard that Trump is preparing for next election. So a lot of people, instead of reaching out to their cabinets for those rusty "tools" you speak of, they will wait, to give the system another chance, just one more vote. Their hope has become a sweet poison, which will sedate you before snuffing the life out. I mean they got a fucking insurrection during January... and how many of them reached for those tools, when they had THEIR GUY still in the office : ZERO.

    The US military, takes oath about defending against both foreign and domestic enemies. And if hijacking an election is not a domestic threat, I dont know what is. The military, or should I say "Military Industrial Complex", is composed of soldiers who may believe that they are patriotic heroes in their head, but in the end, they are just glorified hunting dogs for the globalist elite.
    If you dont understand recursion yet, read this sentence again.

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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Yes, the genocide is happening, right now.... of the whites. Its just not as visible as chemical and biological holocaust, and slow enough to not cause any sudden outburst. Any smaller "incidents" can easily be cancelled or "epsteined" based on the severity.
    I'm not so sure.

    I think I understand your reasoning and please correct me if I'm wrong:

    First come the recriminations - whites are this and they are that.
    Next comes the assertion that if these people are this and that then they are evil. (today's stage)
    Then comes all evil must be destroyed.

    A possible scenario I admit and if it keeps playing out we (whites) are VASTLY outnumbered. But I don't think it's a question of wiping us out, I think we are seen as having something others don't and aspire to. Not being able to attain this aspiration, they want to tear us down instead going through the trouble of actually raising themselves up.
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain.

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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    I'm not so sure.

    I think I understand your reasoning and please correct me if I'm wrong:

    First come the recriminations - whites are this and they are that.
    Next comes the assertion that if these people are this and that then they are evil. (today's stage)
    Then comes all evil must be destroyed.

    A possible scenario I admit and if it keeps playing out we (whites) are VASTLY outnumbered. But I don't think it's a question of wiping us out, I think we are seen as having something others don't and aspire to. Not being able to attain this aspiration, they want to tear us down instead going through the trouble of actually raising themselves up.
    I dont think so. They do see whites as evil or whatever, but they dont want to kill them. They want to extract from them. The extraction can come from things like child support, alimony, reparations, etc etc for one reason or the other, these things will go to lower class, the unproductive bottom of society. The extraction can also come from higher taxes, monetary inflation etc, which goes to upper class, the unproductive but powerful elite of society. It just so happens, that whites, because of some awesome European traditions (not a sarcasm, I love those traditions), are the most productive middle class of the world.

    Which makes it very profitable to extract from them, especially when they dont even bother that you go to their lands, and start enforcing/demanding your norms and traditions under one pretext or another. They are the juicy little sitting ducks for the entire globe lol. The genocide happens because the parasite (upper + lower), is not worried about keeping the host alive, and hell bent on bleeding them dry as fast as they can without triggering a martial response. Its a genocide by thousand cuts.
    If you dont understand recursion yet, read this sentence again.

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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Ah, they want to milk the cow dry and in doing so don't care if the cow dies?

    This makes sense - kill the bird that lays the golden egg! (sarc)
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain.

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    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Ah, they want to milk the cow dry and in doing so don't care if the cow dies?

    This makes sense - kill the bird that lays the golden egg! (sarc)
    Yeah ! And there is such an abundance of golden eggs. Which is why I feel like yelling at non-whites, especially my own countrymen to "Hey ! Leave them the fuck alone !". Because we (the rest of the globe), gets golden eggs for free. I dont see even remotely as much generosity from any other race on the planet.

    But alas, this is pointless. The hatred and spite against whites is fucking unreal !!! My family members keep blaming whites for all the problems of India. Those who migrated to US, are very democrat, and kindda flare up at Trump's name with anger and disgust. I am telling you, if these people grow speed and strength of the zombies, they are going to eat you up alive !
    If you dont understand recursion yet, read this sentence again.

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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    I am telling you, if these people grow speed and strength of the zombies, they are going to eat you up alive !
    I see this myself, it’s happening now and has been for some time. I’ve said this on occasion and have been ridiculed for it but time will tell. Thankfully I probably won’t be around for the end days and having no offspring so I have no concerns there either.

    I was talking to an African guy a while back. We got talking about the political problems in his home country of Zimbabwe and comparing them to here in Ireland.

    We both (country-wise) experienced major political upheaval due to insurrection (and I won’t go there). What he said though did catch my attention. He was in awe of us in Ireland for what we had accomplished. His own country had gone from the breadbasket of a continent and more to a wasteland of corruption, whereas we in Ireland seem to have accomplished so much for such a small nation.

    I’m not sure exactly what this says about white/non-white attitudes, but it says something.
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain.

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    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Yeah ! And there is such an abundance of golden eggs. Which is why I feel like yelling at non-whites, especially my own countrymen to "Hey ! Leave them the fuck alone !". Because we (the rest of the globe), gets golden eggs for free. I dont see even remotely as much generosity from any other race on the planet.

    But alas, this is pointless. The hatred and spite against whites is fucking unreal !!! My family members keep blaming whites for all the problems of India. Those who migrated to US, are very democrat, and kindda flare up at Trump's name with anger and disgust. I am telling you, if these people grow speed and strength of the zombies, they are going to eat you up alive !
    Being white in a field of lily white whites isn't bad, now that racists have taken on a darker color and different acronym (KKK to BLM) it's not safe to venture off the field!

    I know where I'm not safe based on the color of my skin and simply don't go there, racism comes in many different forms held by many different people, it's another form of blind bighted hatred. The non racist needs good reason to justify hatred, things like racism against them.

    I not only hate racism, I hate racists!
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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    I not only hate racism, I hate racists!
    I agree.

    But what makes a racist?

    Is it racist of me to feel uncomfortable walking in to an all-black (or in my case all-Unionist) bar even though I mean no animosity?

    Many would call me racist for being in fear of my life and thus not entering said establishments. I call this common sense.
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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    I not only hate racism, I hate racists!
    I hate the word racism !

    Because I have no clue these days what its meaning is when someone uses it.

    If it comes to hating, I am not a hater, I am a separatist. I know that there are some people who I cannot mix with, and if I try to :

    - they will try to harm me because they will hate me.
    - They will hate me because they will feel some kind of unfairness.
    - They feel some unfairness because in their head, some idea of equality exists, whereas it doesnt in reality. Nature is more unfair than one can imagine.
    - They will have no way to overcome that gap by any means which doesnt involve harming my ability to out-compete them.

    So if all that is scaled from personal scale to political scale, me and my kind, will out-compete them and their kind. So they will HAVE to resort to being aggressive. If they dont, they will starve and die out. Me and my kind will force the brutal hand of natural selection against them, and they wouldnt want to go away without a fight.

    Such is the reality as I understand it.
    If you dont understand recursion yet, read this sentence again.

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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Acknowledging differences in culture is not racism.

    Neither is acknowledging that these differences may cause conflict.

    Neither is being wary that those conflicts may cause you actual physical harm if you aren't careful.

    I don't know about anyone else, but knowing many of the intricacies of my own culture I understand there are dangers if I'm not careful. This leads me to assume it to be the same with others.

    How am I to judge these dangers when dealing with cultures of which I have heard only rumours, most of them being bad? (Good news is no news).

    It's natural to be wary of the unknown.

    This is not racism.
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain.

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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    I hate the word racism !

    Because I have no clue these days what its meaning is when someone uses it.

    If it comes to hating, I am not a hater, I am a separatist.
    How this turned towards racism I’m unsure. We are in danger of heavy moderation here guys.

    I agree that the word racist has become blurred if it ever was clear in the first place:

    If you talk about cultural differences you are deemed to be highlighting them and are thus a racist according to the mob.

    But…

    If through lack of understanding, because you cannot talk about such things, fail to take the culture of others in to account you are deemed racist by the very same mob.


    Either way you’re a racist according to them.

    To me, racism is about intent, the intent to diminish another due to race or ethnicity. This may include hatred but is not limited to it. It can also be born from fear due to lack of understanding and this brings me to separatism.

    A certain amount of separatism is natural in so far as people have a natural tendency to group with those they find similar – birds of a feather etc.

    Enforcement of separatism is another matter – with the exception of separating criminals from the general populace (jail) this definitely carries racist overtones IMO.

    But wherever this is coming from separatism is a bad idea. When different groups are fully integrated in society they get to know each other and see that for all our differences we are all being fucked over by the same forces. It unites us more than divides us.

    When people separate completely from other groups within a society this causes suspicion and thus leads to accusations of discrimination. This foments within these groups and inevitably leads to confrontation which, in turn, reinforces these notions of discrimination.

    But back to the Illuminati, or simply those in control, you mentioned that we cannot mention a particular group without fear of drawing the ire of the mods (and others), so let me try to draw a parallel:

    I originally come from a very sectarian province called Northern Ireland (N.I.), right? Well, kind of but it’s not that simple. Let me explain.

    The factions can be split in to two main POLITICALLY ideological groups; The Unionists and the Nationalists. Within these groups there are those of a militant nature. Unionists are predominantly Protestant and Nationalists are predominantly Catholic.

    This leads to phrases like “The Catholics did this” or “The Protestants did that” even though the disputes and violence that arise aren’t really about religion. They may as well be saying “All Catholics are like this” or “All Protestants are like that”. I’m sure that those members of these religions that hear this outside of N.I. would have some very strong views on being categorised in this way.

    Using such terminology is about castigating an entire section of society because of the actions of a few. In my experience most people in N.I. want nothing to do with this kind of mentality and get along quite well together regardless of religion.

    In other words they are being unfairly categorised as the enemy due to their religion when it should be about political beliefs and willingness to become militant.

    This is why I agree that comments about particular groups should be moderated aggressively. Often their only purpose is to incite racism and intolerance.
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain.

  15. #15

    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    I dont think so. They do see whites as evil or whatever, but they dont want to kill them. They want to extract from them. The extraction can come from things like child support, alimony, reparations, etc etc for one reason or the other, these things will go to lower class, the unproductive bottom of society. The extraction can also come from higher taxes, monetary inflation etc, which goes to upper class, the unproductive but powerful elite of society. It just so happens, that whites, because of some awesome European traditions (not a sarcasm, I love those traditions), are the most productive middle class of the world.
    This is correct. If it were not white Europeans that were "on-top" or at least perceived that way, the herd would find another group to demonize. That's all it's about and has ever been about. Unfortunately for those who want to blame "white people" for everything, it may backfire in their faces. I have noticed a growing resentment occurring and have been hearing people speak out more over this garbage. As I always say, it will end when the people have had enough. The people themselves are the problem.
    In the future there will be robots.

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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    But wherever this is coming from separatism is a bad idea. When different groups are fully integrated in society they get to know each other and see that for all our differences we are all being fucked over by the same forces. It unites us more than divides us.
    Hmmm, somehow I missed looking at this post.

    Hmm you exactly highlighted WHY separatism is needed. Irreconcilable differences. People like me for example, we dont care about knowing everyone the planet. There can be hundreds of reasons given, but most of them boils down to, we want OUR survival, and everything that optimizes it useful, everything else is either directly harmful or indirectly harmful because waste of time.

    Which means, people like me (the separatists) and people like you (the anti-separatists) have irreconcilable differences. I dont want to live with non-separatists because they will destroy the whole point of our strategy, and you dont want to live with separatists because they will interfere with you sharing the commons (land, informational platforms, etc) with whoever they deem as enemies.

    This goes in line with what I said back in artificial wombs thread. A bunch of separatists living alone are not harming anyone unless someone tries to invade their land. The definition of harm is strictly economical. Just because it upsets you doesnt make it harm. But if you try to impose your rules and regulations and morality and ideology on them, then you are a tyrant.

    The harsher you go against separatists, the heavier evidence you provide in FAVOR of their point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    This is why I agree that comments about particular groups should be moderated aggressively. Often their only purpose is to incite racism and intolerance.
    Yes, another of the same old disagreement between us. The "should be" vs "could be". Look around, there is no moderator here, unless someone reports then MAYBE. All these things, the moderation, the enforcement of norms and traditions, whether its on a website or in society is EASIER when there are similar kind of people and its enforced. The moment you start mixing and hoping it works (as implied by "should be" without economic reasoning), is wishful thinking.

    Another thing which adds weight to separatists.
    Last edited by rkspsm; June 4, 2021 at 12:34 PM.
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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Hmmm, somehow I missed looking at this post.

    Hmm you exactly highlighted WHY separatism is needed. Irreconcilable differences. People like me for example, we dont care about knowing everyone the planet. There can be hundreds of reasons given, but most of them boils down to, we want OUR survival, and everything that optimizes it useful, everything else is either directly harmful or indirectly harmful because waste of time.

    Which means, people like me (the separatists) and people like you (the anti-separatists) have irreconcilable differences. I dont want to live with non-separatists because they will destroy the whole point of our strategy, and you dont want to live with separatists because they will interfere with you sharing the commons (land, informational platforms, etc) with whoever they deem as enemies.

    This goes in line with what I said back in artificial wombs thread. A bunch of separatists living alone are not harming anyone unless someone tries to invade their land. The definition of harm is strictly economical. Just because it upsets you doesnt make it harm. But if you try to impose your rules and regulations and morality and ideology on them, then you are a tyrant.

    The harsher you go against separatists, the heavier evidence you provide in FAVOR of their point.



    Yes, another of the same old disagreement between us. The "should be" vs "could be". Look around, there is no moderator here, unless someone reports then MAYBE. All these things, the moderation, the enforcement of norms and traditions, whether its on a website or in society is EASIER when there are similar kind of people and its enforced. The moment you start mixing and hoping it works (as implied by "should be" without economic reasoning), is wishful thinking.

    Another thing which adds weight to separatists.
    Anti-separatist? I suppose I am but not in any aggressive way.

    I believe in the right of the individual to act in an individualistic way. This means I also have to respect the right of the individual to associate with whomsoever he/she chooses. In this sense I have to support separatism, at least to some extent.

    Have you come across the notion of Dualism by French philosopher and mathematician René Descartes?

    I don’t really know much about the details but the concept is not lost on me. From my understanding he talks about the ability of the human mind to hold seemingly contradictory concepts and believe in them equally. Maybe one of our more philosophically inclined members could elaborate on this.

    For example, as already stated I believe in the rights of the individual to do as he sees fit. I also believe in law and order (when not abused, but that’s a different debate). Law and order restricts the rights of the individual. But I believe in the rights of the individual. So how can I possibly believe in both, yet I do.

    The problem IMO comes from seeing things in absolute terms. I don’t want to see things in absolute terms as I believe that this would diminish my ability to achieve a broader view of what’s really happening, in other words it would close my mind to other possibilities.

    This is why I have problems with adopting a philosophy. We all develop rules for life that allow us to navigate the world safely and (hopefully) profitably, but I believe these rules should be flexible. Adopting a general philosophy goes against flexibility.

    Separatism tends to lead to mind-sets that ignore others’ viewpoints or see them as being wholly wrong. There is a risk that they eventually begin to see things in absolute terms.

    This inevitably leads to notions of “we’re right and they’re wrong” and thus leads to conflict. This conflict is bad for the opposing separatist groups involved let alone everyone else.

    When I say I believe separatism is a bad idea I mean it in these terms, not that it should be vilified in any way.
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain.

  18. #18
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Who are the illuminati?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Separatism tends to lead to mind-sets that ignore others’ viewpoints or see them as being wholly wrong. There is a risk that they eventually begin to see things in absolute terms.

    This inevitably leads to notions of “we’re right and they’re wrong” and thus leads to conflict. This conflict is bad for the opposing separatist groups involved let alone everyone else.
    I see your point, it appeared to me that you were taking some absolute stance against separatism yourself, my bad.

    On "we are right and they are wrong", well I am not that kind of separatist that says that you absolutely cannot talk, look at or even think about the other. That'll be really really bad. From separation, I only mean, no sharing of the commons, or very restricted sharing of the commons. Commons is any property collectively owned by that group.

    So sure, the two groups can talk, trade, have tourism for each other, just not share the infrastructure. And even THAT can be dropped eventually if after a long enough time of separation the groups realize that they are more similar than not.

    EDIT: The separation in this case is basically a test of good faith, that the other group is capable to survive on their own for long enough period of time without much problems. This is actually a very hard test, but from what I see, a very fair test too.
    Last edited by rkspsm; June 4, 2021 at 7:16 PM.
    If you dont understand recursion yet, read this sentence again.


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