Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,117
    Reputation
    2783
    Type
    Ghost

    What do you want…

    …do you really really want?

    Lyrics from a song. A pretty shit song from the Spice Girls, nevertheless the question is quite profound.

    We are all very good at pointing out the flaws in modern society – they are many, varied and detrimental in so many ways, but what of solutions? Obviously we would like to see an end to unjust laws that penalise those of us with a penis, but these laws merely reflect societal pressures, it’s society that’s flawed. Just what kind of society do you see as ideal?

    Have a look at this comedy skit from the 1990s. It’s only 2½ minutes long but you’ll enjoy it, really you will – it’s funny as fuck.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

    What do you see?

    Do you see a feminist agenda at work? Do you see a skit decrying how women WERE treated?

    Or

    Do you see a yearning for return to tradcon values?

    Or

    Do you see something else?

    Just what do you see?

    Whatever you see it should make you ask the question I began this post with: What is it you really want?

    Feminism has killed off this type of society (tradcon). I’m sure I’ll come in for some criticism here but I say good riddance to it.

    As for what it portrays to replace it, I don’t want that either. Whilst it implies very forcefully that women’s views are just as valid as men’s, it fails to encapsulate the fact that women’s views change with their mood. They (IMO) have no centre, no basic tenet that they live by other than to use others. Such is my experience.

    Maybe, as Opaque says we should learn from this and adopt this philosophy. Regardless of what should and shouldn’t be, this is the world we live in. Adapt or die.

    Maybe, as RKSPSM says we need to assert a more logical reasoning process when it comes to legislation and how people are allowed to articulate their views.

    Maybe, as MGTOWER says we need to kick them all to the curb. (I put that viewpoint politely).

    Maybe, as Bonobo Protocol says we should ghost completely and avoid interaction with them as much as possible.

    And my own view, to fight fire with water. Ghost for the most part but not to allow ourselves to become them by adopting their methods, use reason to contradict them when they go too far. A dangerous method if you’re not careful but if no-one points out their flawed reasoning then they have no option but to continue with their myopic views.

    Sorry for characterising some of us and letting others off the hook, but it is what it is and if I tried to encapsulate all our members this post would go on for ever. If I have gotten any of your viewpoints wrong I apologise but I’m sure you’ll be only too happy to correct me.

    But these views (including my own) are all about adapting to their mindless, nonsensical demands. I’m now in my fifties with no offspring to my knowledge. What becomes of the world means little to me now, but the basic question remains – what is your view of the ideal world?

    For myself I just don’t know to be honest. Socialism sucks. Capitalism sucks. Religious piety sucks. Indoctrination sucks. Affirmative action sucks. Political correctness sucks. They all suck the big one.

    Why can’t we all just get along? Well, that sucks too. Not in its idealism but in its simple impracticality. People will always have different views of right and wrong, not only in how they apply to others but also in how they should be free to ignore them themselves.

    Herein, I fear, lies the major problem: Do as I say but leave me free to do as I like. Why is this? As far as I can see this is how we evaluate people: We have a propensity to judge others by their actions and their words, however when it comes to ourselves we have a tendency to judge ourselves on our thoughts and intentions. There is a disparity here.


    Life is an exploration – it is what it is. Learn to protect yourself. Go Your Own Way and no matter what; learn from your experiences, and learn to enjoy the accrual of those experiences no matter how painful because inevitably some of them will be painful.

    I hate this term because of the inane things people do in its name, but there is truth in the phrase YOLO – You Only Live Once – enjoy it while you can.

    In this vein, I think I’ll have myself a drink – next week I may even be able to hit the pub for a pint, the decision is due this evening. Fuck this Covid lockdown shit!
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

  2. #2
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Dead body politic, deceased corporate corpse.
    Posts
    2,360
    Reputation
    9366
    Type
    Ghosted by law and order.

    Re: What do you want…

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Maybe, as MGTOWER says we need to kick them all to the curb. (I put that viewpoint politely).
    This is how shit starts, next thing people will be saying that Tower said kick and punch them to the curb, not that I don't agree or wouldn't say it, but that I didn't say it! So okay! I'm' gonna say it! Kick, punch, and stomp them to the curb! There, fuck it, I said it!
    We are lawfully exiled by the alterations and changes made to this social compact called government, its body politic now cancerous and destructive to its own ends.

    A man is on his own, always was, always will be.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,117
    Reputation
    2783
    Type
    Ghost

    Re: What do you want…

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    This is how shit starts, next thing people will be saying that Tower said kick and punch them to the curb, not that I don't agree or wouldn't say it, but that I didn't say it! So okay! I'm' gonna say it! Kick, punch, and stomp them to the curb! There, fuck it, I said it!
    Sorry for the misrepresentation, but I meant it in the metaphorical sense, not that I disagree with the literal version either.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

  4. #4
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Delhi, India
    Posts
    507
    Reputation
    1296
    Type
    Propertarian

    Re: What do you want…

    Another awesome post from Jackoff !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Maybe, as Opaque says we should learn from this and adopt this philosophy. Regardless of what should and shouldn’t be, this is the world we live in. Adapt or die.

    Maybe, as RKSPSM says we need to assert a more logical reasoning process when it comes to legislation and how people are allowed to articulate their views.

    Maybe, as MGTOWER says we need to kick them all to the curb. (I put that viewpoint politely).

    Maybe, as Bonobo Protocol says we should ghost completely and avoid interaction with them as much as possible.
    Interesting, how you provided a caricature (even if simplified) of few select people on this forum, in order to cover different viewpoints. The way I see it, you tried to pick those who are quite extreme in their views, and most other views can be derived by applying these extremes partially in some combination.

    But its still a simplification and it can lead to (quite often I'd say) misunderstandings. So like mgtower, I am also forced to comment a little on my method, especially when it deals with personal day to day life and not with government legislations.

    My view is to basically start with "fascism of truth". By default, you do not deviate from logic, truth, evidence and honesty, but you also accept that regardless of how good you are in those things, there is always a margin for error, an honest human error. And you are expected to change your change your stance the moment you conclude that an error is there.

    The second part is imposing the same standard on the people who you are dealing with. And here lies the problem, because there are many ways to do it.

    You can use force, which means you threaten with some form of retaliation/violence/offensive, and the other person concludes that dealing with that retaliation is costlier than dealing with bluntness of logic/truth. So he/she capitulates. Of course, this method requires you have the ability to apply that force, and even if you have it, you need to be careful you dont apply it too often on too many people in a short time, or else you will find yourself becoming an arch-villain in the story. That being said, this route is VERY efficient and quick, regardless of how moral/immoral you find it.

    Second method is based around incentives and cooperation. You bring something unique to the table, which is extremely desirable, say some skillset which is very useful in a business and nobody else in a team can compete with you there. This gives a huge incentive for people to willingly put up with your "fascism of truth", and everybody essentially wins. And this is why this is my goto method, instead of the last one. Though, just like the previous method, this requires you do possess such a skillset and be very good at, and this requires lots of work, several years of work in many cases.

    Another method closely related to this (calling method 2B), is active non-cooperation based on a heuristic in order to save yourself the trouble, or in simpler words: stereotyping. An example might be, I say I wont have women as my business partners. That is stereotyping. Yeah NAXALT might apply here, not all women are horrible business partners, but I dont want to bother searching and vetting them, as I dont have time and energy for that. The drawback is, you cannot say you follow it, its your personal "trade secret". If you do expose this secret for whatever reason, then be prepared to use method #1 (force/violence) if others decide to retaliate. Regarding whether I follow this or not, I'd say yes, I follow it a LOT, but instead of blacklisting, I whitelist, that is, I will only accept business partners who are either my immediate family or someone who sufficiently agrees with my worldview.

    And lastly, if all of that doesnt work, THEN and ONLY THEN, I will consider Bonobo's method of stealth or Opaque's method of mimicking, either genuinely or just for appearance. And this is what I wanted to clarify the most. These methods are not outside the realm of possibility. One might say, how am I sticking with truth, when I am mimicking the enemy ? The answer is, I advocate truthful interaction only with friendlies and allies. Once that line is crossed, or the bridge is burnt, that person or entity becomes the enemy, and must be dealt with like enemy. Still, this is an "unstable" state in my point of view, and so if I find myself here, then I will try my best to quickly end the situation one way or the other, either by escaping it entirely (say changing job) or acquiring a method of force/violence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    What do you see?

    Do you see a feminist agenda at work? Do you see a skit decrying how women WERE treated?

    Or

    Do you see a yearning for return to tradcon values?

    Or

    Do you see something else?
    I see two things :

    1. An attempt to increase the animosity between the two groups. Regardless of whether you believe women are awesome or women are awful, this video is going to reinforce that stance one way or the other.

    2. A waste of time. This video is merely a theatrical/over-exaggerated and OVERSIMPLIFIED depiction of some phenomenon. It doesnt talk about evidences supporting it or against it, it doesnt talk about how they concluded it, it doesnt talk about any evidence, which if discovered, can falsify that hypothesis. In short, its a glorified cartoon meant for childish thinking. One example why I think its childish... I believe, based on my own thoughts and from what I have learnt from other sources, there is one great advantage of that kind of female brain, but I digress, it can be its own topic as its quite detailed.
    "Truth is enough." - Curt Doolittle
    "Truth, and violence to enforce it." - Eli Harman

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,117
    Reputation
    2783
    Type
    Ghost

    Re: What do you want…

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Interesting, how you provided a caricature (even if simplified) of few select people on this forum, in order to cover different viewpoints. The way I see it, you tried to pick those who are quite extreme in their views, and most other views can be derived by applying these extremes partially in some combination.

    But its still a simplification and it can lead to (quite often I'd say) misunderstandings.
    This is exactly right. It was the viewpoints I was trying to explore. I shouldn’t have mentioned names and left people to self-identify as they seen fit. People are very complex, especially the members here and shouldn’t be reduced to caricatures. I apologise for that.

    My view is to basically start with "fascism of truth". By default, you do not deviate from logic, truth, evidence and honesty, but you also accept that regardless of how good you are in those things, there is always a margin for error, an honest human error. And you are expected to change your change your stance the moment you conclude that an error is there.

    The second part is imposing the same standard on the people who you are dealing with. And here lies the problem, because there are many ways to do it.

    You can use force, which means you threaten with some form of retaliation/violence/offensive, and the other person concludes that dealing with that retaliation is costlier than dealing with bluntness of logic/truth. So he/she capitulates. Of course, this method requires you have the ability to apply that force, and even if you have it, you need to be careful you dont apply it too often on too many people in a short time, or else you will find yourself becoming an arch-villain in the story. That being said, this route is VERY efficient and quick, regardless of how moral/immoral you find it.

    Second method is based around incentives and cooperation. You bring something unique to the table, which is extremely desirable, say some skillset which is very useful in a business and nobody else in a team can compete with you there. This gives a huge incentive for people to willingly put up with your "fascism of truth", and everybody essentially wins. And this is why this is my goto method, instead of the last one. Though, just like the previous method, this requires you do possess such a skillset and be very good at, and this requires lots of work, several years of work in many cases.

    Another method closely related to this (calling method 2B), is active non-cooperation based on a heuristic in order to save yourself the trouble, or in simpler words: stereotyping. An example might be, I say I wont have women as my business partners. That is stereotyping. Yeah NAXALT might apply here, not all women are horrible business partners, but I dont want to bother searching and vetting them, as I dont have time and energy for that. The drawback is, you cannot say you follow it, its your personal "trade secret". If you do expose this secret for whatever reason, then be prepared to use method #1 (force/violence) if others decide to retaliate. Regarding whether I follow this or not, I'd say yes, I follow it a LOT, but instead of blacklisting, I whitelist, that is, I will only accept business partners who are either my immediate family or someone who sufficiently agrees with my worldview.

    And lastly, if all of that doesnt work, THEN and ONLY THEN, I will consider Bonobo's method of stealth or Opaque's method of mimicking, either genuinely or just for appearance. And this is what I wanted to clarify the most. These methods are not outside the realm of possibility. One might say, how am I sticking with truth, when I am mimicking the enemy ? The answer is, I advocate truthful interaction only with friendlies and allies. Once that line is crossed, or the bridge is burnt, that person or entity becomes the enemy, and must be dealt with like enemy. Still, this is an "unstable" state in my point of view, and so if I find myself here, then I will try my best to quickly end the situation one way or the other, either by escaping it entirely (say changing job) or acquiring a method of force/violence.
    Agreed. Adaptation to the situation at hand is absolutely critical in my view. It is for this reason I tried to give each view the same weight because all are valid given the right circumstances.

    There are rules for dealing with others. Some of these are imposed by legislation but many more are imposed by society. The most important rules though are the ones we develop for ourselves.

    Having my own set of moral values (scruples) is important to me; it lets me know exactly where the line is. Whilst I can accept that others don’t share my views I cannot accept them trying to impose their views on me. For me this is the line. If they choose to “break the rules” as it were then all bets are off and I am very likely to act out of character. And if they try to complain with shit like “But you can’t do that!”, well they brought it on themselves. If they can break the rules then so can I.

    2. A waste of time. This video is merely a theatrical/over-exaggerated and OVERSIMPLIFIED depiction of some phenomenon. It doesnt talk about evidences supporting it or against it, it doesnt talk about how they concluded it, it doesnt talk about any evidence, which if discovered, can falsify that hypothesis. In short, its a glorified cartoon meant for childish thinking.
    Absolutely it is childish, that’s what makes it funny – it is a comedy skit after all. The whole point of it and many others from Harry Enfield was to point out stereotypical behaviours and maybe to make people think: “Does this apply to me?”

    For this reason it has no need to point to evidence, it is not meant to be an exhaustive philosophical debate in and of itself but maybe to raise the questions needed to begin one.
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

  6. #6
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Dead body politic, deceased corporate corpse.
    Posts
    2,360
    Reputation
    9366
    Type
    Ghosted by law and order.

    Re: What do you want…

    “But you can’t do that!”, well they brought it on themselves. If they can break the rules then so can I.
    Going your own way is recognizing there are no rules, it's all a construct that demands compliance even in the light of self deprivation of equity and void of equality, it's all done by the crack of a whip so called justice.

    There's no win or gain in confrontation to tyranny unbridled wearing the robes of justice, there's only escape and evasion as any form of tactical advantage. Otherwise, you're the ass, and they're the boot that kicks it!

    2020: Trust; rarer than gold, more illusive than smoke, and the weapon of choice by 9 out of 10 tyrants.

  7. #7
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Delhi, India
    Posts
    507
    Reputation
    1296
    Type
    Propertarian

    Re: What do you want…

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Going your own way is recognizing there are no rules, it's all a construct that demands compliance even in the light of self deprivation of equity and void of equality, it's all done by the crack of a whip so called justice.
    I'll say very small number of rules fall into that category IF you deal with people who are very aware of society but willing to undertake private work in collaboration with you.

    I am going to absolutely adhere to the basic rule not stealing from or defrauding the men with whom I willingly started some work for the mutual benefit of the team, and similarly I will expect all of them to adhere to it. Like I said in a post in another thread, a private team is not government and not a justice system. And it can be very red-pilled and ANDRO-centric if you find such people (I happened to have).

    And because I have found such people and do work/interact with them, I have no need for ghosting or adapting. They are fully aware of me being a mgtow. And not just a mgtow, they are also aware of me being a Propertarian, which goes even furthur than MGTOW by a great deal in terms of being controversial !
    "Truth is enough." - Curt Doolittle
    "Truth, and violence to enforce it." - Eli Harman

  8. #8
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Delhi, India
    Posts
    507
    Reputation
    1296
    Type
    Propertarian

    Re: What do you want…

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Absolutely it is childish, that’s what makes it funny – it is a comedy skit after all. The whole point of it and many others from Harry Enfield was to point out stereotypical behaviours and maybe to make people think: “Does this apply to me?”

    For this reason it has no need to point to evidence, it is not meant to be an exhaustive philosophical debate in and of itself but maybe to raise the questions needed to begin one.
    Now you say it, I chuckle a bit imagining a modern uber leftist "gender-fluid" family sitting and watching cartoons and suddenly a heavy political debate starts, with BIG sentences and BIG vocabulary ... and everyone start staring at the screen with gaping drooling mouths and "eeey.. wat da heck ?!" expression !!

    On serious note, this is exactly why I like cartoons or such skits to be specific to a group of people, say a mgtow comic geared for consumption only by the mgtow. In this polarized society, I dont think a general purpose comedy can achieve much. It will bore the people at best or make them even more extreme at worst.
    "Truth is enough." - Curt Doolittle
    "Truth, and violence to enforce it." - Eli Harman

  9. #9
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Planet Earth/Northern Hemisphere/Land of Low wages & High taxes
    Posts
    1,498
    Reputation
    10992
    Type
    UNAPPEASABLE.

    Re: What do you want…

    Good post Jackoff.

    I can't say that you have mischaracterised my position. I have, from day one been quite consistent in my views about male-female relationships dynamics, the gynocracy in general and how the "average man", what I have coined as the "everyday man" is oppressed.

    The "everyday man" is a man like me, not tall, not a millionaire, not particularly intelligent or attractive. In the video you have posted, at that time, the "everyday man" was the 80%er. Now, with social media and hyper-hypergamy the "everyday man" is the 97%er.

    In other words, if you are not top 3% with a combination of height, good looks, money, power, intelligence, then you certainly will not even be noticed.

    And now since technology is widely available in many societies, even a country like Saudi, the ugliest cunt would settle for no less than a 6"4 doctor or engineer.

    Everyone will have their own way of dealing with the gynocracy, and no one way is right - but my way of mimicking or of "totally blending" into the gynocracy has worked wonders for me.

    The other day, in a debate society I frequent, some bitch came up to me and talked about male toxicity , rape this, rate that - I went quite and she was intently looking at me. I told her that my mother had raped me, and anally mutilated me. She was shocked and couldn't believe what I had said.

    She felt sorry for me, and was extra nice and kind.

    The plan to keep telling people I got raped, then when everyone is a rape victim, then no one is a rape victim. You see how this strategy works like wonders?

    Same thing with work.

    My company tries to be sly with me about this or that benefit which they owe to me?

    Okay, well my next business trip will be a vacation. I will make up meetings, make up clients, spend my time in the galleries and restaurants and getting massage treatments.

    If push comes to shove - I will purposefully make the company lose money - I will make sure business with current clients is destroyed and will do my very best to sabotage their every effort.

    Then, as a last resort - "I was raped and racially abused by the MD". We'll see how that goes.

    If like RKS I had a skill which I could move to any company and make money with, then of course I would think differently. It will just depend on the circumstances, the epoch, the society - this is why I really admire women, because they really adapt well to their environments and know just the right way to behave - immoral cunts but if you can't beat them might as well join them (at least reluctantly).
    A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

    Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
    Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

    The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself; you will overcome it!

  10. #10
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Delhi, India
    Posts
    507
    Reputation
    1296
    Type
    Propertarian

    Re: What do you want…

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    The other day, in a debate society I frequent, some bitch came up to me and talked about male toxicity , rape this, rape that - I went quite and she was intently looking at me. I told her that my mother had raped me, and anally mutilated me. She was shocked and couldn't believe what I had said.

    She felt sorry for me, and was extra nice and kind.

    The plan to keep telling people I got raped, then when everyone is a rape victim, then no one is a rape victim. You see how this strategy works like wonders?
    Holy fk, that is hilarious !

    Ok, Its not my intention to make fun of anything which actually happened in reality, but the way you wrote, excellently highlights what I keep saying about these "progressive liberals". Their overuse of certain words make them completely lose their meaning and weight, and makes them (the words) as well as people who take them seriously, an absolute real life comedy show (hence the name 'clown world' i guess).

    If I was there in that meeting with you and you did that.... I would've seriously needed to put some effort in suppressing my laughter at that lady's face...

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    If like RKS I had a skill which I could move to any company and make money with, then of course I would think differently.
    Actually I also manipulate them just like you, its just that I use a different image. Of course, I do love to hone my skills as much as possible, which does put me at a great advantage against many lazy people around me, but I do agree with you that knowledge of this little game of smoke and mirrors is necessary.

    The image I use is of a stupid nerd who doesnt understand anything beyond computers, and is extremely eccentric and obnoxious. That makes them lose any notion of me being a "threat" to their "world order", AND they leave me alone to work in a corner with peace, even if the actual office room is otherwise crowded.

    And just like your experience, my strategy has also worked wonders for me, which is why I never changed it.
    "Truth is enough." - Curt Doolittle
    "Truth, and violence to enforce it." - Eli Harman


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •