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  1. #1
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    The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck

    At almost 38 mins this isnít a short watch but I found it very interesting. It reflects a lot of my own attitudes although Iím not in full agreement with everything he has to say:

    This is the official summary of the mega-bestseller 'The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck: A Counterintuitive Approach to Living a Good Life' by me, Mark Manson. See below for chapter time codes.

    Chapter 1: DON'T TRY 02:43
    Chapter 2: HAPPINESS IS A PROBLEM 06:46
    Chapter 3: YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL 11:03
    Chapter 4: THE VALUE OF SUFFERING 15:03
    Chapter 5: YOU ARE ALWAYS CHOOSING 18:19
    Chapter 6: YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING (BUT SO AM I) 23:05
    Chapter 7: FAILURE IS THE WAY FORWARD 27:31
    Chapter 8: THE IMPORTANCE OF SAYING NO 30:33
    Chapter 9: AND THEN YOU DIE... 33:41


    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain.

  2. #2
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck

    Interesting video, I did ended up watching the whole. I do agree with pretty much all of it, its just that its said in too simplistic terms, which is good for the intended audience of the book, but it can be nitpicked too easily and reinterpreted. I prefer a more 'un-reinterpretable', which often comes at the cost of complexity.

    The best example I can pick from this book is that chapter 6, about being wrong, because its something which I have talked about on these forums several times. I agree with the author, its just that by simplifying he introduced an error. By saying you are wrong, it may come as an indirect suggestion that you CAN be right. No, you can NEVER be right on anything. Its just about choosing the best and most efficient wrong and then use it in life to survive until it doesnt work.

    I am curious, you said you dont agree with everything he said. Anything particular you strongly disagree with ?
    If you dont understand recursion yet, read this sentence again.

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    Re: The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Interesting video, I did ended up watching the whole. I do agree with pretty much all of it, its just that its said in too simplistic terms, which is good for the intended audience of the book, but it can be nitpicked too easily and reinterpreted. I prefer a more 'un-reinterpretable', which often comes at the cost of complexity.

    The best example I can pick from this book is that chapter 6, about being wrong, because its something which I have talked about on these forums several times. I agree with the author, its just that by simplifying he introduced an error. By saying you are wrong, it may come as an indirect suggestion that you CAN be right. No, you can NEVER be right on anything. Its just about choosing the best and most efficient wrong and then use it in life to survive until it doesnt work.

    I am curious, you said you dont agree with everything he said. Anything particular you strongly disagree with ?
    With regards the simplistic terms, I interpret this as he doesn’t wish to explain everything in the vid; he wants you to buy his book to get a thorough understanding of where he’s coming from. Also, as you say, he is conscious that his target audience are not likely to be great philosophers; he’s speaking to the masses and so his terminology must reflect this.

    That being said, any philosophy can be nitpicked. Philosophy (IMO) is about finding general trends that can be addressed in general ways, specific scenarios that dispute these leads to terms like “the exception that proves the rule”.

    I don’t believe it possible to find a single philosophy or strategy that can address every possible scenario, but sometimes the search (and what we learn during this search) is more important than the initial goal.

    People’s attitudes change over time, both individually and with regards the general zeitgeist. Strictly following any philosophy makes adaptation to these changes difficult if not impossible, even when it may appear to try to take these changes in to account.


    As for where he and I part it was mostly in the area where he talks about relationships. (Chapter 8 – the importance of saying no) When talking in general terms of human interaction I agree with him, but he also implies that it’s possible to have a good romantic relationship. I don’t believe this is possible in today’s world for all the reasons we discuss here regularly.
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain.

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    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    With regards the simplistic terms, I interpret this as he doesn’t wish to explain everything in the vid; he wants you to buy his book to get a thorough understanding of where he’s coming from. Also, as you say, he is conscious that his target audience are not likely to be great philosophers; he’s speaking to the masses and so his terminology must reflect this.

    That being said, any philosophy can be nitpicked. Philosophy (IMO) is about finding general trends that can be addressed in general ways, specific scenarios that dispute these leads to terms like “the exception that proves the rule”.

    I don’t believe it possible to find a single philosophy or strategy that can address every possible scenario, but sometimes the search (and what we learn during this search) is more important than the initial goal.

    People’s attitudes change over time, both individually and with regards the general zeitgeist. Strictly following any philosophy makes adaptation to these changes difficult if not impossible, even when it may appear to try to take these changes in to account.
    Yes, you are right, a philosophy can be nitpicked, because philosophy is inflationary to reality. Which means it ADDS something to reality to convey some message. What I wanted to say that, I like deflationary explanation of things. An extreme example, math is the most deflated language. Its not possible to re-interpret math.

    And this is why I said several times at other places on the forums, I have stopped following any philosophy. What I do follow is a deflated method of doing things: an algorithm, a program. Yes I can change the algorithm if I discover a better one, but its still an algorithm. Its not open to re-interpretation, there is one and only one interpretation of that. I have an algorithm to determine what is good and bad (actually just bad, good cannot be determined). I have an algorithm to determine a lie. None of them is my discovery, I am standing on the shoulders of giants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    As for where he and I part it was mostly in the area where he talks about relationships. (Chapter 8 – the importance of saying no) When talking in general terms of human interaction I agree with him, but he also implies that it’s possible to have a good romantic relationship. I don’t believe this is possible in today’s world for all the reasons we discuss here regularly.
    Oh I see. Well whenever people talk about having a good relationship, I automatically assume they are talking about blue pilled relationships, where one or both are willing to forego the benefits of not having one in favor of having one. Regardless of if its done out of ignorance or out of deliberation.
    If you dont understand recursion yet, read this sentence again.

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    Re: The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Its not possible to re-interpret math.
    Are you sure?

    I came across this vid a while back. Another long one at 34 mins but I found it intriguing. Maths is maths yes, but our understanding of it may be at fault:

    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain.

  6. #6
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Are you sure?

    I came across this vid a while back. Another long one at 34 mins but I found it intriguing. Maths is maths yes, but our understanding of it may be at fault:
    I havent watched the whole video, just first 5 minutes, rest I'll watch in between breaks as I work through the night (1 AM here). I will change this post or make a new one if I see something which is relevant to what I was saying. What I was saying in my last post was, specifically to the problem of interpretation, or language. How strict a language is in describing algorithm. I was not saying that everything can be proven. Actually its already well known that there can be no algorithm that can exist to prove everything (the Halting Problem).

    There is also another thing which the video hints at touching at, and that is there are different variants of mathematics. The binary variant, based on true and false is the one most people are aware of, but it has some serious limitations.

    But regardless of all that, its still a very strict language. If I write a math function, there is only one interpretation of it. The numbers have only one interpretation of them. You cannot interpret 2 as 3. This level of strictness go looser and looser as you inflate the language, which means, add more and more terms to it.

    One good example of a deflated language which is still very prone to reinterpretation is modern day legal language. You cannot use normal english to write, say a constitution. You have to write it in a particular way which makes it resistant but not invulnerable to re-interpretation.

    Any system of language which is inflated than even regular idiomatic language, steps into very problematic zone. Because everyone starts to interpret it in whatever way they want. And they also have their own spectrum. On the lower end you have analogy. For any analogy, there can be many loose interpretations, but its still quite restricted. On the extreme end of inflation you have supernatural. God, soul, spirit etc fall here. Their interpretation is VERY loose.

    (Deflated) Math/Algorithm/Program -> Legal -> Idiomatic -> Analogy -> Supernatural (Inflated)
    Last edited by rkspsm; June 6, 2021 at 9:26 PM.
    If you dont understand recursion yet, read this sentence again.


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