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  1. #1
    Senior Member Octavian's Avatar
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    The Ethics of MGTOW.

    "I really like this girl, and I want you to be the Best Man at our wedding. What do you say?"

    For men not aware of the truth, the answer to this question doesn't pose a dilemma. For us here, that's not the case.

    I realize some of you might say "Hell flaming no. Man, don't you realize how awful getting married is!?? Your wife will own you, own your stuff, and you'll be sentenced to a life of misery!"

    Were you to do that, it would likely damage your friendship and stop absolutely nothing. The show would simply go on without you. Here's the ethical dilemma at hand. We here value being free to choose our own path in life. What then, when a close friend chooses slavery under a woman?

    Do we have the moral requirement to say to our close friend "man, you're making a mistake", cognizant he'll likely reject the advice, resent you for telling the truth, and double down on a bad call to avoid facing the truth?

    Or do you respect his right to make a mistake, say "yeah man, congrats, I'll stand there by you" , drink your booze , keep your trap shut, and prep the spare bedroom in your place for The Inevitable when his cupcake goes "Eat Pray love" ? What say you all ?

  2. #2
    Senior Member livas's Avatar
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    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    Unfortunately many women have destroyed so many great male bonds and friendships by enslaving their boyfriends or fiancees and by talking shit about YOU, dear reader, soon to be unfriended by your puppet friend while the puppet master one hand in the nacho bowl is pulling the strings with her other hand.
    Oh man you wont believe how many arrogant "looks" and attitude from girlfriends or fiancees from my friends I have been getting over the last years.
    They fear you because you are the sane one you have escaped the matrix and no one can control you or bestow any kind of force upon you, except for the fascist goverment but thats another story.
    So by cutting the bond between these fine lads and destroying the life essence of this truly remarkable achievement, which manly friendship is, the parasite wins and demonstrates to the whole world its vaginal power over the weak minded guy who at this very moment, rest assured dear reader, is giving her couch sitting lazy fat ass a foot massage so the poor shmuck can maybe later stick his johnson into the holy land.

    And no I dont think it would be very wise telling your friend to dump "the love of his live" and I dont advise anyone to do so because the results are almost always counterproductive and you are actually helping the parasite to get rid of you.
    What you can do however is being the "rock" of manliness in your friendship, and like a true master guiding him so that he can see the light for himself one day.

    Last edited by livas; February 24, 2014 at 7:25 PM.

  3. #3
    Member Big Boss's Avatar
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    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    Tricky one. You could very well anger and lose a friend if you try and convince him to call it off. Then with those kind of voices in his ear he is going to feel even more pressured. I'd say yes and grin and bear it. Chances are I'd try and steer him away from marriage way before anyway.

  4. #4
    Senior Member FapMaster's Avatar
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    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    I would agree to attend, drinking copious amounts of alcohol. The friendship is inevitably doomed either way, once the marriage is final the she-devil will make his life miserable if he tries to spend time with me or any other old friends. Women can't stand those of us who see through women's $HIT. But I wouldn't disappoint him.

  5. #5

    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    What I always do is carefully explain what I think will happen, but say that I "respect his decision." Then when everything ends, I help him as much as I can. One time the person decided not to marry after our conversation, and his brother got marriage troubles a year or two later - he thanked me profusely for it then!

  6. #6

    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    Hmm. If my friend wanted to join the French Foreign Legion and asked me to be with him at the induction center. I'd go with him and talk to him the whole way about it being a bad idea. The FFL is basically the same thing as modern marriage: you lose control of your life, you're put at risk, and you end up getting bossed around by an alien (if you're not yourself French).

  7. #7
    Senior Member College MGTOW's Avatar
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    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    I think I have the easiest answer here: Accept the potential consequences of any ideas you have. Then do what feels right.

    First of all, you're likely losing your friend. That's a nearly foregone conclusion. If we start from this basis, it seems like there's nothing you could say to make it worse. Say anything you want, Octavian. It's not going to matter to him or her anyway. What matters is how you feel about the actions you made. Were they right and just, coming from a place of concern, care and whatever admiration you carry with the guy? Then there's your answer.

    What if we didn't care what he says anyway? What if we wanted to get laid? Show up to his wedding with a ring on your finger and make it a good time for yourself! Fuck 'em. Fuck every single one of them. His wife too.

    What if you just wanted to get out of the house?

    Ethics in these situations are devastating. All that matters is YOUR ethics, since you can begin to see where his and hers lie.

  8. #8
    Senior Member livas's Avatar
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    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    Remember guys nobody wants to hear the bad news.
    And you sure dont want to be the messenger.

    (Btw why was the video that I posted almost instantly removed?)
    Last edited by livas; February 28, 2014 at 9:51 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    I make my friends aware before hand that I'm not fond of marriages and explaine my reasons. I don't tell them about MGTOW because they would almost certainly think I have been consumed by an ideology of some sort. But I can give some simply advice and let them decide what they want to do. But not when they are getting married, it has to happen beforehand.

  10. #10

    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    I'd break it down into ethical components:-

    1 A person is responsible for the predictable consequences of their own choices;

    2 It is unethical to zealously try to save someone from their own choice, but;

    3 It is ethically right for you to ensure that your friend has been told of the probable consequence of his choice, at least once, in order for the consequences to be in any way predictable;

    4 If no one else has warned him of the dangers of marriage, then it ethically falls upon you to do so. [I'd argue that it ethically falls upon you to also do so, even if others have tried beforehand, though I'm on less solid Ethics ground there];

    5 Having done so, then #1 is in full effect, and you can be his Best Man etc (which is what he wants) with a perfectly clean conscience - and 'should' attend the wedding and celebrations with all due gusto; ie with the maximum good faith that you can muster, or you're there dishonestly. You don't Know that the marriage will inevitably go all horribly wrong, right?; so you can draw upon that healthy little bit of honest skepticism about the inevitability of the outcome as you join in with the event.

    [A note re #4: We're all different but I'd phrase your warning as being all about your own personal beliefs re you avoiding getting married yourself, as if you weren't discussing him and his marriage at all. This then allows him the choice to read between the lines or defensively refuse to, without it getting personal and disharmonious: Either way, he's then made his choice - #1 is in full effect from then on, and you've done enough to satisfy your ethical burden.]

  11. #11

    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    Unless there's a bond that will keep the two men working/collaborating together, it's going to end anyways after he marries. So says theory, and almost always in practice. The question is whether to be proactive.

    He's trying to get comatose drunk. He's responsible for that. He wants the best man to be the bartender/enabler. The best man is responsible if he will accept that role.

  12. #12

    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    I'm with smallbitsoffire. My friends are fully aware that I'm a MGHOW, without even knowing what it is. I'm sure I would be kicked to the curb at cupcake's instruction long before a wedding ever took place.
    Last edited by Jethro Null; March 3, 2014 at 1:24 AM. Reason: Spelling error

  13. #13

    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmuneToAG View Post
    Unless there's a bond that will keep the two men working/collaborating together, it's going to end anyways after he marries. So says theory, and almost always in practice. The question is whether to be proactive.

    He's trying to get comatose drunk. He's responsible for that. He wants the best man to be the bartender/enabler. The best man is responsible if he will accept that role.
    The difference is that if the man wants to get married he will, and no argument at the OP's disposal will be able to dissuade him of that (he'll just move to his second choice Best Man, then third etc, or get married with no Best Man if it came to that) - so he's not really an enabler at all.

    So the best good (service) he can provide is to be there for his mate if It All Goes Horribly Wrong™, which he has the best chance of doing if he doesn't piss his mate off at this stage. But it's ethically essential for him to also say 'for the record' that he doesn't think marriage wise; which needn't be in a heavy handed way at all (since it almost certainly won't make any positive difference anyway).

    Just my take on it - Ethics is about as muddy as it gets.

  14. #14

    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    Ah hell.. life is not that simple.

    Like waves crashing against a rocky shore, you never know where each individual droplet will land. The goal shouldn't be the complete and total freedom of every man on the planet, today, right now. Life is far, far more gradual than that. It will be a slow realization, not a sudden leap out of age-old slumbers.

    Some of us are destined to become worker slaves. It's true. Some of us SHOULD be married, in all its forsaken glory.. because for many, they can't operate productively without the drama of love and relationships. For others, marriage becomes a temperance to the ills they inflict if left to their own devices. Men and women, as much as we deride them both for their subjugation to the irrational and parasitic nature of our society, are regardless necessary variables in the formula of greater human development.

    Some of us have to go to war.

    But we can help them.. not walk away from them. The value of little droplets of red pill knowledge can go a long way. I've experienced this personally. A friend, as obviously destined to be controlled by his woman as he may be, still manages to keep his eyes open and offer resistance; prolonging his autonomy. He does this I know, because I inundated him with knowledge beforehand.

    Never give up on a friend who has done you no wrong personally.

  15. #15

    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    You know Octavian, it takes me a while to read your posts because what you write have a lot of depth that needs frequent revisits to fully appreciate. You seemingly pose simple questions that begs careful consideration.

    I'm sorry for not coming to the Philosophize section more often.

  16. #16
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    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    The exact same thing I was thinking about.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Devil's Avatar
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    Re: The Ethics of MGTOW.

    Well, there is no one single way of approaching this as I'm sure others have noted. If that were my best friend in the hot seat, I'd be as honest with him as possible.

    First, I would tell him about the divorce rate and industry and let him know that I really do think he's rolling the dice on this one. There is a greater than usual chance of this blowing up, even if he can't see past his own so-called love. I would pull no punches in carefully explaining how concerned I am for his future mental and even physical health.

    Second, I would stress to him that it is simply my opinion. He's free to make whatever decision he wants, but I'm going to be the best man because that's just what friends do. Hopefully that will allow him to keep in mind that it's not the end of our friendship unless he wants it to be.

    Finally, failing all that, I'll just get him plastered and watch a season of Bridezilla with him.


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