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  1. #1
    Unregistered someoldman48
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    Testimonial and a few words of encouragement from some old man [long post]

    Testimonial and a few words of encouragement from some old man.

    I am over 70 years old, have been married for over 45 years, and only very recently discovered the Red Pill / MGTOW concepts. This new information was quite a paradigm shift for me (I don’t like the term paradigm shift but in this case it applies…) and has explained many things I’ve experienced in life. Am certainly no expert in any area of human relations but wanted to pass on my experiences and observations in case they can be of encouragement to others.

    Here is the story -

    Retired a few years ago and started thinking about my life, what had gone well and what went not so well and what I wanted to do with myself in the retirement scenario going forward. This was _before_ being aware of the Red Pill / MGTOW concepts.

    I developed a thought that I bothered to write down:

    The probability of success in life is greatly enhanced by having the resources and ability to be able to isolate one's self from people that waste your time and energy and otherwise distract you from meaningful endeavors by pulling you into their delusions.

    Curiously this thought did not come from man-woman relationships (although it was mostly women involved) but from some decades of experiences with family. Another environment that contributed to this thought was attempting to participate in a Homeowners association. So I am thinking that my thought was actually a more generalized statement of going your own way that could be applied across life and not limited to a dating experience.

    Having time in retirement to ponder, another topic that had always been in the back of my mind was my lack of success with dating as a young man. This lack of success with dating was particularly frustrating during my college years. I really really wanted to have a girlfriend and feel that we were in love. Was not even expecting much sex or advancing to sex quickly as I was terrified of getting pregnant before I got established in a career. (Keep in mind this was in the late 1960s and the pill was not as prevalent as it probably is today.)

    So I set about trying to get dates and find that special person - but for the most part I had very poor luck even getting a date.

    Now I knew that I had some limitations:
    Did not have much money to spend on dates as the family was barely able to keep me in school financially.
    Did not have a car.
    Did not have nice clothes.
    Was not super attractive but thought I was not repulsive.

    However, the concept that was in my mind was that society was telling me that it was not money or property that mattered to women in a relationship but that the overriding concept was BEING A GOOD PERSON. So I made an effort to be a good person. Stayed away from drugs, did not abuse alcohol, was honest, sincere, was working hard to be successful in school etc. Another concept that I thought was applicable was the strength of my desire to please a woman and be in a relationship.

    However, things were not working out to my satisfaction. Had a great deal of difficulty even getting a date. There were times when the workload was lighter and I’d think that I should try to get a date for that weekend or some event/concert etc and start approaching girls that I’d noticed previously. Don’t remember the exact number but do recall that were was one instance where I had asked 12 (or more) women for a date for the same weekend and not one accepted. This was confusing and painful for me as I expected that being a good person and having a strong desire to be a good partner would win the day - but something was not getting me the date or even past the first 30 seconds of the conservation.

    I was able to find some dates from time to time and and handful where the relationship continued for months. Still there was something missing in that the dating did not result in building a stronger relationship, a stronger bond, more open communication. Was not expecting sex right away and was not pressuring girls excessively for sex. I imagined that the scenario would be that I would date my future wife or long-term girlfriend for about a year, prove that I wasn’t unreliable and was not a serial killer, and some affection would build up such that after about a year we would begin to venture into some sex play and at least by the two year point would have a discussion and make a decision to begin experimenting with some safe sex. Again, this never happened. So overall the dating quantity in college was lower than expected and the quality failed to produce the relationship/bonding that was hoped for. I knew that I had money/status limitations but expected that ‘being a good person’ (and a willingness to do almost anything to please a woman) would overcome those superficial characteristics - but was having no luck.

    Now flash forward in time from the late 1960’s almost 50 years to about 2019 and I discovered MGTOW - from a comment on an internet car forum of all places. Someone there made a comment about endorsing MGTOW principles to his sons and I looked it up. Found a number of information sources across the internet and the Red Pill / MGTOW concepts were a huge eye opener for me. It was a light bulb , OMG , paradigm shift moment!

    Realized that I had been a hard core Blue Pilled Beta , certainly a SIMP , all my life and mostly Incel for my college dating years. So many things that had happened and what the women were doing or telling me (or not doing or not saying) started to fall in place and made sense. In reality not having a car or money for fancy dates or nicer clothes hurt my chances by not projecting some level of success or competence. My ‘being a good person’ probably was probably evaluated as boring. And, my expressed strong desire for a date/girlfriend was apparently seen as being insecure, needy, and or desperate.

    Another negative factor was my relatively un-tall height at 5’7”. Never knew this was a factor at all until about 20 years ago when I saw a ‘TV Magazine’ , quasi-documentary television program that set up a lab test demonstrating women’s dating preference to taller men despite their jobs or financial success. Am now finding references in the Red Pill / MGTOW environment confirming that tallness is indeed a strong factor. Crazy thing is that I’ve been completely oblivious to this limitation all my life - sort of recognized that other people were taller but didn’t think it made any difference. (Guess I’d have to say I was Short, dumb, and happy… well, unhappy…)

    I did eventually go on to get married after getting well established in a career. Don’t want to get in to details about my married life but suffice it to say that there was some significant hypergamy in play. I’ve been loyal enough, or blue pilled enough, that the marriage has lasted about 50 years but I’ll just say that it has been a lifetime of very hard work and in some ways sacrifice on my part and I’m afraid that there is a nagging feeling that I’ve not gotten my money’s worth out of the deal.

    Now, having discovered these Red Pill / MGTOW principles so late in life I am relieved to find information that makes sense of so many experiences - but - am also angry with myself that I didn’t have the intellect to figure this out on my own - and - unhappy that I have spent so much energy in life attempting to find success / happiness / ‘the promise land’ by trying to follow the Blue Pill rules that the world has been feeding me. It really hurts - not so much that I might have missed some sex or relationship opportunities, but more that I was so naive and tried so hard to succeed in a doomed scenario.

    I am not sure what I would have done differently in life had I been aware of the Red Pill / MGTOW lessons prior to marriage and during my college dating period. Its unclear whether I would have been able to have any more success by developing some PUA/game skills or whether my overall situation would negate those efforts.

    What I do believe now is that having an awareness of the Red Pill / MGTOW principles early in life would have saved me a great deal of frustration , time and money , and allowed me to focus more on making more progress on things in life that would be more beneficial in the long run. It could have saved me years of wondering in anguish why my relationship efforts were not being successful and spared me some of those times when I was likely trying to drink myself into being smarter…

    So this is my testimonial from some old man as a caution to younger men that in my life experiences the principles of Red Pill / MGTOW for man-woman relationships are real. It didn’t just start in the last few years, it’s been going on for a long long time.

    == Encouragement ==

    I would encourage anyone new to the Red Pill / MGTOW world to research a wide array of information sources out there, primarily internet, to find the various relationship concepts and different ways in which they are expressed by different authors. Different concepts and different ways of expressing them might make more sense to you depending on your life experiences. There is some great material here, on this forum, especially in the BEST OF MGTOW section. For other sources I prefer the presentations that focus on the science oriented material based on psychology/sociology/anthropology etc or at least studies or surveys that were conducted in a more or less scientific manner. Find Briffault’s Law, Hypergamy, some statistics on divorce rates, and branch out from there.

    For the established goingyourownway folks, I’d urge you to find opportunities to spread the word about Red Pill / MGTOW to help save someone like my younger self from a lifetime of failed efforts. You could be providing the newly informed with tremendous opportunities to focus their efforts on other achievable goals. Additionally, I’m thinking that individuals will need the Red Pill / MGTOW concepts in order to move past incel, PUA, gamer, SIMP status and into a stabilized goingyourownway existence.


    == SOAP BOX #1 ==

    Red Pill and a better understanding of man-woman relationships could be tremendously important beyond the scope of dating relationships and marriage. Seeing some vague information on the proportion of mass murderers that grow up in fatherless homes makes me wonder if a variation of Blue Pill where young men are given rules and goals that don’t work - then leads them to some level of insanity/frustration that results in very violent actions. Similarly, having now seen some Red Pill / MGTOW concepts and then watching various television murder mystery programs about murders that actually occurred - I am blown away by the number of men that allow themselves to be pulled into doing battle and committing murder for women - often in situations where he does not really have that much invested in the relationship. I find myself yelling at the tv “walk away dude ! she’s going to throw you under the bus (into prison) when it goes to court!” and she does…

    == SOAP BOX #2 ==

    I have a theory or opinion that MGTOW and goingyourownway concepts at their core are not limited to just man-woman relationships but can be considered a natural continuum where an individual should (for his own benefit) have some skills in independent thought ( critical thinking, rational analysis) that can be applied to other areas of life. For example, in considering one’s relationship with family (regardless of gender), one’s relationship with their employer, one’s relationship with a group/club/team etc. Certainly some independent thought or rational thinking should be applied to one’s goals in life and the path they are attempting to navigate to attain those goals. Perhaps I am not sure what I am trying to say here except to encourage independent thought across the complete spectrum of life’s activities (They say do this and do it this way - but it’s not working out. Can you figure out what’s really going on? Where do you want to go from here?) And to say that looking at life with a magnifying glass of critical thinking makes MGTOW / goingyourownway look a whole lot more like good judgement and a lot less like a social aberration.


    == A collection of miscellaneous quotes for your consideration ==

    "There is only one way to happiness
    and that is to cease worrying
    about things which are beyond the power of your will."
    - Epictetus

    “If you don't like something, just take away its only power: Your attention.”
    ― Anonymous

    - As long as you put your life in someone else's hands, nothing will change.
    - Travis Alexander


    == original Quips from some old man ==

    My nomination for MGTOW theme song or anthem is

    It ain’t me babe - by Bob Dylan and performed famously by Johnny Cash and then Juaquin Phoenix. Check out the words in the lyrics. My favorite version is from the movie as it is performed by Juaquin Phoenix.

    2. Some old man comments to his buddy, “Oh Man… I’m telling you, if I weren’t married I’d have no idea how many things I’m doing wrong.”

    3. Some old man says to his buddy: “You know, it looks like we’re getting up in the age category where the women are evaluating us based on the size of our health care package.”

    4. They all say “Happy wife happy life.” to which some old man replies, “Be careful fellows you don’t wake up one day to realize that you have squandered your existence in a vain attempt to make a woman happy.”

    5. And, some old man says “I’m telling you fellows, there’s women out there for whom Cinderella is not just a move - its a religion!”


    That’s all I got.
    I’ll sign off as someoldman48

  2. #2
    Administrator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: Testimonial and a few words of encouragement from some old man [long post]

    Hi someoldman48,

    First of all, THANK YOU for taking the time to write out your testimonial. There are so many important things you have said that I don't know where to begin to express appreciation for them. For starters, I think I will mark this thread, your post, as a sticky in this sub-forum.

    Our younger members should make note that you are talking about how things were back in the 1960s to show how this stuff predated our modern labels for them. And, without the sharing power of the internet, it was a wilderness, in a sense. Men were isolated in their suspicions of something being wrong, and with the blue-pill indoctrination everywhere you looked, would turn on themselves as the error that needed correction. Still goes on today.

    Was not expecting sex right away and was not pressuring girls excessively for sex. I imagined that the scenario would be that I would date my future wife or long-term girlfriend for about a year, prove that I wasn’t unreliable and was not a serial killer, and some affection would build up such that after about a year we would begin to venture into some sex play and at least by the two year point would have a discussion and make a decision to begin experimenting with some safe sex. Again, this never happened.
    This was generally my view, too. I was the nice guy that I thought I was supposed to be. Staying that way sure kept me maladaptive.

    I find myself yelling at the tv “walk away dude ! she’s going to throw you under the bus (into prison) when it goes to court!” and she does…
    You'll understand that I am amused by this. I do that, too. I can see that with this new awareness you are now firing on all cylinders.

    And to say that looking at life with a magnifying glass of critical thinking makes MGTOW / goingyourownway look a whole lot more like good judgement and a lot less like a social aberration.
    Again, thank you for bringing us your experiences and evaluations.

    Unboxxed
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  3. #3
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Testimonial and a few words of encouragement from some old man [long post]

    Peace of mind is priceless, I'm glad you found yours and I have mine!

    Brother, we're of the same mindset, only I started in my early 30's and lived a life full of reward and adventure! Knowledge, sacrifice, and perseverance makes life sweeter and more enjoyable every day!
    I refuse to live in life's pitfalls and scandals when abandoning them in all their forms makes so much more sense! You might say I pulled the plug...
    MGTOW is justice brewed to perfection!

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: Testimonial and a few words of encouragement from some old man [long post]

    the marriage has lasted about 50 years
    Ooof!

    The divorce rate is far, far higher than the 50% usually quoted. 50% of all marriages haven't ended yet. That's not the same thing at all as finding out how many marriages will eventually end in divorce. And that's the important stat, because it's the same as asking "How likely is this marriage to end in divorce?"

    -- EDIT --

    Or to put it another way: how likely is it that any given person these days, if they marry, will marry once and die married or widowed? I suggest (random guess): 5%. I suggest that 95% of marriages will end in divorce. I suggest that if you - reader out there on the intertubes - get married, that marriage will most probably end in divorce and an ass-raping for the male partner. It's not 50%. It's not even close to that.

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    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: Testimonial and a few words of encouragement from some old man [long post]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered someoldman48 View Post
    Seeing some vague information on the proportion of mass murderers that grow up in fatherless homes makes me wonder if a variation of Blue Pill where young men are given rules and goals that don’t work - then leads them to some level of insanity/frustration that results in very violent actions.
    Single mothers cannot socialize boys. Single mothers cannot teach boys ethics and responsibility.

    In part, because they themselves are not high-quality people.
    In part, because their menstrual cycle means they cannot be consistent with discipline (or anything else).
    And in most part, because men and women are different.

    For a woman, disciplining a daughter is easy. You just say "that's not nice, people will disapprove of you if you do that". That's the way girls work, they instinctively know that the only way to survive is by other girls liking her. Girls will strive to conform.

    Boys are just not like that. It sounds corny, but if a boy is not a dirtbag then you appeal to his inner sense of dignity - he will stand straight and speak the truth because he wants to be like men he admires (notice how Hollywood has worked hard to make every hero un-admirable in at least some respect). And if that doesn't work, you have to threaten him believably (ie: you have to follow through) and consistently, so as to instil a habit of doing the right thing: finishing their homework, not stealing shit, etc. Mothers for the most part just can't do this. They can't be consistent, because periods; and their threats aren't believable once the sons are 14 and they are bigger and stronger than she.

    14-16 is the critical age, it's the period during which a young man grows a conscience. Single mothers can't instil a conscience because they don't have one - all that guides their behaviour is a nagging anxiety that other people might not like them. They can't install a sense of dignity, either, because they don't have any. Don't believe me: believe their tattoos.

    I suppose this doesn't answer the original point: we are not talking about mass murderers, here. To introduce a tangent: pretty much every serial rapist was sexually abused by a woman as a child. Our society routinely leaves boys alone under the "care" of women who aren't related to them. Predators go where the prey is.

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    Re: Testimonial and a few words of encouragement from some old man [long post]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered someoldman48 View Post
    ... but wanted to pass on my experiences and observations in case they can be of encouragement to others.
    I have absolutely no doubt that this will be the case. Any young man reading such a heartfelt testimonial could not fail to be moved. Congratulations sir, you have just become part of the solution.

    My biggest problem was my feelings of isolation in seeing what was going on and having no-one around me that understood. Then I discovered MGTOW and my whole world changed.

    I would just like to add my many and equally heartfelt thanks for such an interesting post.



    I have added this track to our "If MGTOW had an anthem" thread, I hope that's O.K.
    Last edited by Jackoff; March 21, 2021 at 1:47 PM.
    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. - Mark Twain.

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    Re: Testimonial and a few words of encouragement from some old man [long post]

    Thank you someoldman48,

    A post filled with wisdom from a lifetime's experience. A rare gift these days.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Eddie Willers's Avatar
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    Re: Testimonial and a few words of encouragement from some old man [long post]

    Another 'thank you someoldman48' - that was a mighty powerful testimonial; I had almost the same experience and sense of frustration 20 years later.

    "Plus ça change, plus c'est la męme chose" - The more things change, the more they stay the same.
    A gun-toting, weed-smoking, gray-bearded redneck with a Masters - old and dangerous.

  9. #9
    someoldman48 Unregistered
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    Re: Testimonial and a few words of encouragement from some old man [long post]

    Wow - this is quite an honor to have a post marked as a sticky !!

    Thank you Unboxxed, mgtower, Mr Wombat, Jackoff, suspicioscrow, and Eddie Willers for all the positive responses and feedback.

    Thinking about this topic it seems that there are dozens of little incidents or anecdotes that I keep thinking of and think that I could have added in to my story, but the post was long enough already.

    Still, I’d like to add in some follow up here to add some emphasis or just say something using different words to try to provide a better explanation.

    1. Another way to express my prior Blue Pill confusion with life is that it seems that I was asking the girls I was dating, or trying to date: “How can I win you over?” , “What can I do to please you?” , “How can I prove myself to you and strengthen this relationship?” Mostly this was subtle or between the lines but sometimes rather directly. There was generally no response what so ever from the women - they would not or could not answer the question. I recall that one told me that I didn’t understand what love was. Having a small dose of Red Pill, I believe now that the message was in their non-response and that message was - I am not that interested in you. You are not worthy of anything more in a relationship with me. So, here it is 50 years later and I am kicking myself for not being able to read the writing on the wall. Seems there could be a broader principle or lesson in here that we should sometimes look more closely at what people (even outside dating relationships) are doing as opposed to what they are saying.

    2. Commented earlier about possible relationships between fatherless homes and young men engaging in violence (mass murder). As a disclaimer I am certainly not qualified to make any factual statements about those extremes of behavior and cause and effect. However, another less extreme tragedy possibly related to Blue Pill frustrations is suicide among young men and possibly stalking. So again I would encourage everyone to spread the word about Red Pill / MGTOW concepts in order to provide Blue Pill sufferers with another frame of reference and other facts to help them generate some rational analysis of their situation, get past their confusion and pain, avoid some tragedy, and go on to more fulfilling lives. I have felt some of the Blue Pill pain, but looking back now it seems quite illogical that anyone would feel hopelessly doomed due to the unresponsive behavior of one woman, or feel that this one woman was ‘the only one’.

    3. A concept (opinion) that I’d like to promote is that one of the core principles of Red Pill - evaluating what people are doing as opposed to what they say, or what society says your are supposed to do, is a principle that should be a life skill and applied to many other environments. Not just in a dating situation.

    In my opinion there is much to be gained if each of us individually can develop some skills in some combination of independent thought, situational awareness, and critical thinking.

    It seems all of us are almost constantly bombarded with requests from others that want us to spend money or contribute time and energy to something they are promoting. To save yourself from wasting your own resources one must ask on the most elementary level - “what’s in it for me?” Is this other person being a leader with a sound plan of action of achievable objectives that will yield a benefit to me that is worth my personal investment? Is their plan workable? Can they pull it off? Will the juice (for me) be worth the squeeze? OR, is this person being more of a salesman (as opposed to a leader) who’s only objective is to get you to contribute something to an effort that only benefits them or is otherwise more expensive than it’s worth to you?

    I submit that you can find these predatory salesman scenarios in a wide variety of life environments. Have seen them in extended family relations, certainly in homeowner associations, and in the work environment. Heck, had one boss whose behavior was more like a selfish wife than an effective business man - the story was always give, give, give towards objectives that could never be realized - and there was always a (vague) promise of wonderful rewards that never materialized.

    If you are reading this please look up some definitions for independent thought, situational awareness, and critical thinking. These are life skills that can help save your time and energy to concentrate more on activities with a meaningful value to you in the long run. I believe they will also give you practice and experience that will guide you in implementing MGTOW / going your own way principles as a logical/rational extension of sound personal management.

    In closing on another long post I’d like to say thank you again for the positive feedback and as a lurker thanks for providing this forum and content to help us lost souls find a path forward. Keep up the good work and pass the word!

    someoldman48


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