Thread: Members exiting

Reading Morlock's ban request, you have a pattern of asking exiting members, "I'll honor your request in 30 days, in case you change your mind." The Mods do this frequently. You actually don't want members to quit. Not sure if it's mercy, or desperation. You need members to have a forum. You coddle some guys that border bullies, & you inconsistently make examples out of some. It doesn't add up. You police the forum occasionally. If we are the children that you view us to be, then be consistent with your 'discipline'.

I normally wouldn't waste my time in sending you a message, but I'm always willing to help out where i can.

At best, you have some men helping out and encouraging. At worst you have men sniping the sincere. Then there are the jellyfish. They don't have an original thought in their heads, aside from 'modding up', when a member gets out of line & needs an attitude adjustment. They self righteously say things like, 'He deserved it, he broke the rules'. It's like playground banter. Why doesn't that member just throw in a 'nah nah nah nah nah'.

[comment against existing member redacted]

SteelEye

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Reading Morlock's ban request, you have a pattern of asking exiting members, "I'll honor your request in 30 days, in case you change your mind." The Mods do this frequently. You actually don't want members to quit. Not sure if it's mercy, or desperation. You need members to have a forum. You coddle some guys that border bullies, & you inconsistently make examples out of some. It doesn't add up. You police the forum occasionally. If we are the children that you view us to be, then be consistent with your 'discipline'.

I normally wouldn't waste my time in sending you a message, but I'm always willing to help out where i can.

At best, you have some men helping out and encouraging. At worst you have men sniping the sincere. Then there are the jellyfish. They don't have an original thought in their heads, aside from 'modding up', when a member gets out of line & needs an attitude adjustment. They self righteously say things like, 'He deserved it, he broke the rules'. It's like playground banter. Why doesn't that member just throw in a 'nah nah nah nah nah'.

[comment against existing member redacted]

SteelEye

Hi Steeleye,

This post from you is a day later than your contrite one and here you return to being unhappy with me/us? This is confusing.

Only once have I stated an offer to wait 30 days to impose a self-ban. It was an idea that came to me right before I offered it that one time. It's remarkable that you say I have a pattern of it when I've offered it only once. Plus, I've never seen other mods offer it. It came from my brain. It's kindness, not desperation. I'm aware that people get mad then cool off later and regret that they blew up. Many self-bans are made in anger. Like yours.

You aren't helping me when you complain with general observations. Look at how much I've typed for your sake on the other thread and in your obit and this is all you can do for me? Gee, thanks a lot, pal.

Regarding what I redacted and the comment above it, I agree with you, I am not an advocate of members dumping on the departed. Only cogent observations, to help those who remain. You should have noticed I did take action, sir.

If I ever want to ban myself I'll just stop logging onto the site...like I did with that other place when it flushed itself into the toilet. Why bother with a ban?

I still don't understand SteelEye's problem with me.

Originally Posted by MGTOWFOREVER

I still don't understand SteelEye's problem with me.

PM sent.

I have lurked here a bit and find this thread and topic interesting. You have lost some of your more interesting and prolific members. I find some of the sniping and stacks on mentality when members are wanting to leave to be quite immature.

You don't seem to value your members and as someone who considered joining at one point, I have decided against it as I do not feel I want to share personal information and experiences with yourselves in the intro process. I have seen some genuine attempts at intro's being mauled just because some of you have felt they lacked the information you feel you need.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I have lurked here a bit and find this thread and topic interesting. You have lost some of your more interesting and prolific members.

In agreement with you, I don't think our members are uninteresting.

I find some of the sniping and stacks on mentality when members are wanting to leave to be quite immature.

You'd have to provide an example but I don't support sniping or dumping on departing members and have removed or redacted comments. If a departing member is provocative or member-specific, people have a right to respond. Some departures are more nuanced and with history behind them and what you see as undeserving may be a set up by the departing member to achieve the opinion you have. That's why an example is useful.

You don't seem to value your members and as someone who considered joining at one point, I have decided against it as I do not feel I want to share personal information and experiences with yourselves in the intro process.

There's a story of how a woman once asked actor Raymond Burr why did lawyer Perry Mason (a Saturday night American TV show of years ago) never lose a case? Burr replied adroitly, "But madam, you see only the cases I try on Saturday." As if to say she wasn't looking everywhere.

You may not be noticing when value is given if you recall only that which sought to capture your attention. You have to extend yourself to appreciate the finer and less thrilling qualities around you, yes? You may be reading value thoughtfully provided to you right now, who knows.

Any new member who can first read and then follow the How To Intro sticky in the New Member Intros sub-forum is better equipped to write the productive Intro that we seek. I am sure many people, like yourself, just don't want to do it, and their reasons are for them to have.

I have seen some genuine attempts at intro's being mauled just because some of you have felt they lacked the information you feel you need.

Thank you for the opportunity to again remind all members of our enforcement of treatment of newbie Intros:

http://www.goingyourownway.com/mgtow...ro-forum-8827/

Mauling sounds unacceptable. Within the rules, you may see variety of response to newbie Intros.

Thank you.

@Unboxxed you asked for examples about sniping and the stacks on mentality. Morlock's exiting thread as well as Dixon Steele are two good examples. Dixon Steele wrote a genuine intro (as far as I could tell) yet was attacked in it. Morlock simply wanted to leave the site and used the self ban system to do so and you can read that thread to see how that went.

I say these things because as an outsider it does not encourage me to want to join and I am sure I am not the only one.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

@Unboxxed you asked for examples about sniping and the stacks on mentality. Morlock's exiting thread as well as Dixon Steele are two good examples. Dixon Steele wrote a genuine intro (as far as I could tell) yet was attacked in it. Morlock simply wanted to leave the site and used the self ban system to do so and you can read that thread to see how that went.

I say these things because as an outsider it does not encourage me to want to join and I am sure I am not the only one.

I don't know the phrase "stacks on mentality" and when you wrote it the first time, I thought you meant to type "attacks on mentality" so if I miss your meaning in what I say, please know why.

I am choosing to restrict my comments about sniping and unkind treatment to the point in time beginning when a member decides to place a self-ban request. Before then, all members who feel they are disrespected are to avail themselves of the Report link that appears in the lower left corner of every post. Yet, people are people and they do not think identically so if some use the Report button while others hold it in until they are fed up, either way they do it, they make their dissatisfaction known, and there we are in receipt of the choice they made. The Report button is proactive, certainly.

I don't think I should rehash here what got members to the point in which they posted a self-ban request but, once they get posted, the lesson I learned from the Morlock self-ban request thread was that moving forward I should perhaps not try to assist at the time the member is most determined to leave but instead simply ask the member if he wants me to address anything in lieu of closing his account. And then take his "No" to that at face value and not present to the member any inconsistencies he offered me in giving me that "No". It was too intellectually inviting to ferret out the truth when really I can always relate my perspective later, in the Banned Members obit, after the member's request is granted. So, yeah, I am well aware of that departure. BTW, I see no instances of sniping or dumping on him from other members in that thread.

Hopefully you saw my DS post here:

http://www.goingyourownway.com/mgtow...35/#post135235

Again, an instance where me trying to save the member (via PM) didn't succeed. In that thread, I see only once instance of objectionable comment from someone, a member who was put on steps and subsequently banned from the site.

I can't imagine any forum online where 100% of the members depart with tearful goodbyes and kisses all around. Does it occur to you that departing members also possess immaturity? There are going to be misunderstandings and unhappiness occurring in a forum and we have mechanisms to assist redress. What cannot be controlled is the human heart and the charitable nature of a person that is often necessary to successfully navigate misunderstandings when they arise. Each person has to hopefully bring their best even though this forum is not your auntie's tea party. The members are individuals, not a monolithic entity. Within the guidelines, expect variety.

I say these things because as an outsider it does not encourage me to want to join and I am sure I am not the only one.

In life, I have been the one to say those very words to others with the same goodwill and sincerity that you have meant by them. Now that in this instance I am on the receiving end of those words, I can better understand the position of those who were my recipients in times past. For instance, I can't beat or whip our members, don't you agree? I can police the guideline and Principles. That, I can do. When members follow the rules here, they are welcome here, as you would be. And all the variety that they bring as Men Going Their Own Way.

Perhaps you will come to feel that the minority instances do not constitute the majority and thus would no longer hold you back from registering and providing an Intro. This assumes you are MGTOW, of course.

Thank you.

"Stacks on" perhaps a term specific to my country. It just means when you see someone is getting picked on or beaten up and others decide to join in as well. I guess you could also call it a mob mentality or gang bashing.

And yes, I think if someone wants to leave it's best to just let them leave unless of course you/others truly want to know what the problem is. Otherwise the situation escalates and gets pretty ugly.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

unless of course you/others truly want to know what the problem is.

Wow, that was always my sincere motivation, of course! I'm surprised you now say that after all that you've said before. You have now excused me from that which you did not like! Plus, as I pointed out, your examples did not have the sniping and objectionable peer treatment that would befit your criticism there.

What was this exchange between us all about, then? An exercise in releasing your energy at me? Yes, and somehow we talked you into a full circle.

(See, that is the kind of observation I will notice and say and is what people who are frustrated to leave do not like to hear in response to the inconsistent things they say to me.)

I disagree that those instances ever became ugly. Nowhere near that. Ugly is much, much worse to me. Visit other sites for what is ugly. The only thing "wrong" with these departures is that they are inelegant and unpleasant and others who read them do not like the inelegance and unpleasantness involved in getting at the truth. This sensitivity is how I view you and others in that it consumes your opinion to the exclusion of the majority good here. Conversations giving criticism are not frequently a lovely experience with pretty ribbons and bows. So don't start one if you can't accept the risk of unpleasant response, fair enough?

I regret the unpleasantness it takes to get at the truth but which cannot be helped unless one is a doormat. I do not regret my recognition of other people's bullshit. You should understand that, if you are MGTOW and not a concern troll.

Your examples didn't support your sniping accusation and with your last comment you've now undermined your primary criticism. You should re-examine your whole take on this. I think I am done here.

Well, grandpa always said, "If the stove's too hot for you, stay out of the kitchen." I didn't join because of the sniping attacks. I joined in spite of them. I stay because I'm worried that if I leave the place will go to Hell. I don't blame you for not wanting to join, especially with me and Tower roaming the halls. We're liable to give you a wedgie!

I sincerely do hope you keep visiting, though. Joining is optional.

It seems to me activity on the forum has picked up. But then again I only post when I feel I have something to say of value. *Puts ghost cloaking device back on*



Back to grinding for money, finishing projects, and saving money like a mad man.

I agree with previous posters on this thread as I’ve been lurking for quite some time. Wanted to register but decided not to as I didn’t want to post personal information and experiences as part of the intro process only to have it scrutinised and ripped apart when it doesn’t contain the required level of detail.

Making the intro process mandatory has put me off registering for this forum.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I agree with previous posters on this thread as I’ve been lurking for quite some time. Wanted to register but decided not to as I didn’t want to post personal information and experiences as part of the intro process only to have it scrutinised and ripped apart when it doesn’t contain the required level of detail.

Making the intro process mandatory has put me off registering for this forum.

Well, the fact that prospective members sort themselves in this way is a subtle feature of the Intro, not a bug.

But, let's keep chatting...

So, in a voluntary Intro system, you would opt out from doing an Intro but just show up and start posting away. Yeah, you and an army of trolls. No thanks. Speaking of trolls, you may be the same person from Post #6. Hard to know WITHOUT AN INTRO.

This site is not your personal playground for whatever you really are. And of course you don't want to tell us whatever you really are. Our standards are higher than yours. Oops, you already said that.

Always remember, you'd be using an anonymous name when you register. Right?

And I assume you understand why we follow-up for things that were left unsaid. Right?

Some people know how to do it and some people don't. What can I say?

Perhaps reading the Intros of members may fortify you.

Do you feel substandard if questioned? Do follow-up questions do that to you? You don't take it well?

At some point your concerns about personal disclosure on an anonymous site may sort themselves out and then you will wonder what held you back.

Or not.

You still have this sub-forum where you have posted. It's a courtesy provided to outsiders. And trolls, and those who hide among them.

I invite you to post, here in this thread, your best attempt at an Intro, disclosing as much as you are comfortable with disclosing in trying to follow our Intro requirements. For those things that we ask but you will not disclose, point them out to me in this nonbinding Intro. Let me see where it is that you can't comply.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I agree with previous posters on this thread as I’ve been lurking for quite some time. Wanted to register but decided not to as I didn’t want to post personal information and experiences as part of the intro process only to have it scrutinised and ripped apart when it doesn’t contain the required level of detail.

Making the intro process mandatory has put me off registering for this forum.

Think of an Intro as a tryout like the NFL combine before you get drafted. You WILL go through a lot of shit to prove your worth. I went through the ringer even with one member claiming I was a woman by the way I wrote. Did I get mad? Nope. Irritated? You bet. But I stood my ground and here we are almost 3 years later.

Just post about different things. Like what made you MGTOW. What differences did you notice about how women were treated compared to men? How ex wives/girlfriends were?

Man I don't get it. I have read several of these older threads today. These folks complaining about completing an "intro", have the ever had to do final exams, a thesis, or defend an issue paper? Or pass any kind of certification that requires written and oral examination? Perhaps my experiences are just different enough but to me it just one of those things that needs to be done, not a big deal. Right? Granted it is easier once you have the clarity.

Who knows what their true problem with intro's is as without one it is difficult to see where they are coming from.

Best guess - they like to criticise others without risking being criticised themselves.

In other words, whiners!

Maybe their lack of an Intro just proves they are not really what they claim to be.
Anybody can lie about anything but keeping "that story" consistent and on tract with the agenda, is very hard work .

I don't see a problem, but then again, I have some pretty thick skin...