Thread: Should I go my own way?

I just want to get straight to the point:
I am aware of the concept of MGTOW and the red pill. I am also aware of the "soyboys" who premeptively call you an incel upon hearing you aren't "blue pilled" so to speak, and I am not here to argue about why MGTOW is right or wrong, but to simply listen to the advice and perspective of people who have an alternative solution to my "problem".

I am a 22 year old male, living in the Middle East. Marriage is the only official means of getting sex and making a family. Parents push their kids to get married, they feel entitled to having grandchildren.

Now, I have a lot of issues with my life. I have low self-esteem, lifestyle-caused erectile dysfunction, virginity, lack of confidence, and worse, I don't know whether or not I could be considered an involuntary celibate. I mean, I can always get married through my mother through her friends' daughters and so on, but I was never approached by girls or look like a Chad to ever dream of attracting a girl. I am the type who has to work hard to be able to get a girlfriend in a Western sense, if you get what I mean.

However, although women here are more traditional and family oriented, the law still gives him the leverage to abuse me. The wife gets the custody, the dowry payment after divorce, child support and not only that, but I feel like marriage takes away a lot of freedom from a man.

On the other hand, I want to experience having sex, having kids and having a structured life.

Everybody around me is pro-marriage, so there's no use trying to seek advice from them. However, most of those pro-marriage people I know have awful marriages. My father had made our lives hell. So I am aware that sometimes being single is better than being in a bad marriage.

In my situation, what incentives should drive me to become MGTOW?

Again, do not misunderstand me, this is not an attack on MGTOW or a ridicule of the idea. I just want objective opinions on what I should do.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

In my situation, what incentives should drive me to become MGTOW?

Your situation is not unique. You're a fellow who wants marriage but also sees bad things tied to it while being surrounded by pro-marriage people.

Celibacy can be cured by paying for sex, so celibacy is not a solid identifier of this thing they call involuntary celibate. You acknowledge that you could get a girlfriend in the Western sense if you worked hard at it. I don't know what that hard work would mean for you, exactly, unless you mean sacrificing your dignity and sense of self to subjugate to a woman with whatever is left of you. Lowering the bar on yourself until exploiters find you profitable. Many guys regret doing that.

(If you want a positive spin on getting a girlfriend, we are not the place to ask.)

Answering your question literally, it is the bad things about relationships that would incentivize a man to MGTOW.

Many MGTOW were incentivized not by seeing bad things happen to others but by personally experiencing the bad things.

Clarify to yourself, do you need to personally experience bad things to decide that the things you see are not right for you?

If no, then are you going to roll the dice in making a gamble with your life for a decision that cannot easily be undone?

I just want objective opinions on what I should do.

Objective, as in not steering you either way? Apart from what I've already said, that's easy. I don't want to just be the next person telling you what to do. Each man must make his own decision to get married or not, to become MGTOW or not. We wouldn't want you to hold us responsible should you have a change of mind. You must own your decisions on the path you take in life, same as we all have done.

Keep educating yourself on your options, pray to your Higher Power if you have one, make a cost/benefit analysis perhaps.

I hear that working out regularly does wonders for self-esteem and confidence even if having nothing to do with getting women.

That's objective enough, perhaps, but probably not satisfying enough for you. I'm referring your life's decision(s) back to you.

I just want objective opinions on what I should do.

You have the knowledge, use it to your advantage! Ask yourself "what's good for me", and if you're honest and pragmatic about solving it, you'll be living in a realm that has no confusion and wisdom will guide your steps.

The institution of marriage has become subverted and hostile to men, and for women all the changes to law and culture has empowered their weaknesses and weakened their strengths.

You're at a crossroads where all the signs have been switched on purpose to deceive you in every level of your natural inherited masculinity.

Society has changed drastically since governments started obeying the harkening of women at the cost to men.


I see only two choices when contemplating the facts.

1. hell on earth

2. MGTOW freedom and the blessings of sovereignty in times like these.

Don't marry! Women are bitchy, nagging controlling bitches and a real man doesn't need them. The best sex is a combination of PornHub and your left hand.

The very fact that you are asking these questions of yourself is indication enough to me that you are MGTOW at heart if not in practice – yet.

And really it is yourself not us you’re asking these questions of. By coming here you’re seeking assurance in decisions already made.


It can be difficult to admit to yourself that you see things as they are and to leave the preconceptions and preconditions of others behind.

Sex is sex. It should not be confused with marriage. You can buy sex for a set fee, with marriage the fees are never ending. Read our intros for an idea of what marriage and relationships truly cost; money is only one part of that cost.

So you want the experience of marriage and kids and (suppressing a huge laugh) structured life?

These things are mutually exclusive. If you want a structured life then you have to be the architect. With a wife and kids this is impossible.

They will undermine your structure.
Society will undermine your structure.
And if all that fails, the law will undermine your structure.


But I think you already know all this. You see the folly of marriage. You know it’s not what you want.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Now, I have a lot of issues with my life. I have low self-esteem, lifestyle-caused erectile dysfunction, virginity, lack of confidence, and worse, I don't know whether or not I could be considered an involuntary celibate.

I smell a troll. The idea that MGTOW are MGTOW because penis problems, etc. He doesn't write like a native middle-easterner.

But in terms of advice:

On the other hand, I want to experience having sex, having kids and having a structured life.

Sex isn't that great. It's good, but not good enough. Particularly if your only option for sex is a wife who despises you. Kids are great, by most accounts, but you don't actually get to keep them. If you want sex, stay single and work out. If you want kids, well - that's just not something you can really have.

You have to make your choices. Weigh up the cost/benefits, the likely outcomes, and make your choice. There's not a lot of people here who can advise you, because most of us don't live where you do. If, for instance, it's impossible to get a job because they only hire men with wives and families - ultimately that can be a thing. There might be legal avenues to protect your assets on divorce (she will divorce you, if it's legal, which it evidently is). Family trusts and whatnot.

You can try deflecting your family's expectations - "I'm waiting for the right girl", "I'm waiting to be more financially ready" - but it will be controlled by women, and women always bat for Team Woman above all.

You know what? Work out and improve yourself. At the moment, even if you do get the rellos to supply you with a wife, she'll be bottom of the barrel and will also make you miserable out of spite. Your problem isn't that you don't have a wife. Your problem is this lifestyle you mentioned. Fix that. If you don't and get married, you'll still be you, but you'll be you without any options.

Originally Posted by Mr Wombat

I smell a troll. The idea that MGTOW are MGTOW because penis problems, etc. He doesn't write like a native middle-easterner.

But in terms of advice:



Sex isn't that great. It's good, but not good enough. Particularly if your only option for sex is a wife who despises you. Kids are great, by most accounts, but you don't actually get to keep them. If you want sex, stay single and work out. If you want kids, well - that's just not something you can really have.

You have to make your choices. Weigh up the cost/benefits, the likely outcomes, and make your choice. There's not a lot of people here who can advise you, because most of us don't live where you do. If, for instance, it's impossible to get a job because they only hire men with wives and families - ultimately that can be a thing. There might be legal avenues to protect your assets on divorce (she will divorce you, if it's legal, which it evidently is). Family trusts and whatnot.

You can try deflecting your family's expectations - "I'm waiting for the right girl", "I'm waiting to be more financially ready" - but it will be controlled by women, and women always bat for Team Woman above all.

You know what? Work out and improve yourself. At the moment, even if you do get the rellos to supply you with a wife, she'll be bottom of the barrel and will also make you miserable out of spite. Your problem isn't that you don't have a wife. Your problem is this lifestyle you mentioned. Fix that. If you don't and get married, you'll still be you, but you'll be you without any options.

I am not really a troll. My English is just good from years of being on the Internet.
I am currently a MGTOW in practice. I deliberately avoid dating, and I have never been married.
It's just that my mother thinks I have a mental issue or some kind of personality disorder because I do not want to get married. She thinks it's an innate urge to get a wife, have kids, settle down, etc. My father had been an awful parent, he made and is still making our lives hell, but my mother still stayed with him. She always tells me my wife isn't going to divorce me if I treat her good.

Everybody will incessantly nag me to get married the more I stay single. My only way of getting rid of this is to move out to another country and never contact my family again. But this is so drastic, and it will be irreversible. They will be offended and won't like me anymore but my life is too dysfunctional to be worth staying with.

Here people will talk about you if you don't get married. Is he sterile (can't have kids)? Is he gay? (could get me jailed if falsely accused) Is he impotent? Is he greedy and a miser? (doesn't want to spend money on a kid & wife)?

People will always ask me: "hey, when will you do it and get married?"

I already feel like I am a father. I have many nephews and nieces and I literally see them everyday. I play with them, teach them and I immodestly call myself a great uncle. I already feel the fulfillment of being a father through my nephews and nieces.

EVERY single marriage in my family is dysfunctional in one way or another. My brother doesn't fight with his wife at all, but she's sucking him dry. She's very high maintenance and he has to work thrice as hard as he should to uphold her lifestyle.

I watch a lot of dramas, novellas and shows and I always see how men are easily disposable. She can ruin your entire life just because she's not in the mood to be in a relationship with you anymore. And you get treated like a convict, you instantly lose the privilege of seeing your kids and you have to see them once a week, as if you are a sex offender or something. Why would I get myself in this shithole of a lifestyle?

I suffer from extreme depression and my psychatrist gave me three meds and they caused me to become sedated all day long. Not only that, I have erectile dysfunction now. He says I am not sexually active and my sexual function will return once I taper off those meds when needed.

I already consider myself 99% MGTOW. I am just scared of permanently associating with a label. I always bide my time when taking decisions and always go for a decision I can reverse, so I can be flexible in my life.

I never smoked, took drugs, hanged out with bad people or did something illegal and this has helped me a lot, especially when I see others who have worse health than me due to smoking or doing drugs. I only live once, and I want to literally make the best out of my life.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I suffer from extreme depression and my psychatrist gave me three meds and they caused me to become sedated all day long. Not only that, I have erectile dysfunction now. He says I am not sexually active and my sexual function will return once I taper off those meds when needed.

?

I understand the depression. I was the same. It built and it built until I could take no more and I just walked away, moved to a different jurisdiction and cut contact with all but a chosen few.

Making the move scared the hell out me but it was possibly the single best decision I have ever made. No longer did I have to worry about how others viewed me. Everyone was a stranger so why should I care about their viewpoints. I was free to be myself for the first time in my life.

So, why the question mark?

Well, if you’re not sexually active why on earth would you believe you have some sort of erectile dysfunction? This makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

?Well, if you’re not sexually active why on earth would you believe you have some sort of erectile dysfunction? This makes no sense to me.

When your dick quits working, you'll be the first to know!

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

When your dick quits working, you'll be the first to know!

Yeah? Maybe so, but if you aren’t trying to deploy it then how do you know it’s dysfunctional?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I already consider myself 99% MGTOW. I am just scared of permanently associating with a label. I always bide my time when taking decisions and always go for a decision I can reverse, so I can be flexible in my life.

You don't have to "permanently associate yourself with the label." It is better NOT to associate yourself with the label, given the stigma attached to it. First rule of MGTOW is you don't talk about MGTOW.

And going your own way doesn't have to be a permanent decision. It can be a temporary one. It often is. No one says it has to be a permanent commitment. Things change. You're only 22. You're absolutely right to keep your options open and stay flexible. (Actually, that's one thing MGTOW does -- helps you keep your options open, vs. foreclosing them by going down the path everyone else is taking.)

Marriage is the only official means of getting sex and making a family.

Well, there are unofficial means of getting sex. As for making a family, yes, I think marriage is the best option, if you want kids. The stats on children of single parents are not good.

However, you also say:

I already feel like I am a father. I have many nephews and nieces and I literally see them everyday. I play with them, teach them and I immodestly call myself a great uncle. I already feel the fulfillment of being a father through my nephews and nieces.

So, you already feel like a father. You don't need to have kids to be a nurturing influence to young children. You've got that need met through your nieces and nephews (and there are other ways to meet that need, too, like volunteering to help kids in your area). I'm not seeing any rationale for getting married here. Apart from just complying with social norms.

I suffer from extreme depression and my psychatrist gave me three meds and they caused me to become sedated all day long.

Are you in therapy as well? Trying to deal with severe depression using just pharmaceuticals is not a good plan. You should get yourself into good therapy, if you can find it in your area. It may be of help with some of the other issues you mentioned, too (peer pressure, low self-esteem, finding your way in life, dealing with parents).


Overall, it sounds like you are very clear that you don't want to get married, but you're having trouble dealing with self-doubt and all the family/cultural pressure to get married. That's a tough spot to be, especially with depression piled on top of it.

This will probably sound glib, but don't give too much importance to what other people think. Some people will make judgments about your lifestyle choices, especially if they are unconventional, but those people rarely understand your reasons, and they are usually coming from a position of groupthink. Don't give their opinions more weight than they deserve.

Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell

And going your own way doesn't have to be a permanent decision. It can be a temporary one. It often is.

Wrong!

Wrong on a number of levels.

First up GYOW is not something to try out to see if you like it. There’s nothing wrong with this stance but it isn’t GYOW.

If you view it as potentially temporary then you’re open to changing this stance in the future. This is not the MGTOW way.

Next, Going Your Own Way is not a decision, it’s a determination arrived at through understanding that there is simply no other way to have any sort of direction and control over one’s own life.

If you wish to try out life without woman’s overbearing demands on your time, money and energy then I commend you for your willingness to see beyond the rhetoric and to try a different approach, but this is a far cry from knowing.

MGTOW KNOW that they are better off without women. They aren’t dipping their toes to see if it’s a good fit for them.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Yeah? Maybe so, but if you aren’t trying to deploy it then how do you know it’s dysfunctional?

There are stimuli that occur when one is alone that can cause an erection. Your own thoughts, for example. Have you never done this? Easy to notice when erections are not full anymore.

Have you ever heard of masturbation? That is an attempt to deploy it. He may have found he does not respond to manual stimulation as before.

You're gonna know.

Or maybe he finds that making out does not bring him the erections he used to have.

So many ways to gauge this, Jackoff, I'm surprised you can't think of this yourself.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Wrong!

Wrong on a number of levels.

First up GYOW is not something to try out to see if you like it. There’s nothing wrong with this stance but it isn’t GYOW.

If you view it as potentially temporary then you’re open to changing this stance in the future. This is not the MGTOW way.

Next, Going Your Own Way is not a decision, it’s a determination arrived at through understanding that there is simply no other way to have any sort of direction and control over one’s own life.

If you wish to try out life without woman’s overbearing demands on your time, money and energy then I commend you for your willingness to see beyond the rhetoric and to try a different approach, but this is a far cry from knowing.

MGTOW KNOW that they are better off without women. They aren’t dipping their toes to see if it’s a good fit for them.

Well, I'd say that's a particular definition of MGTOW, and a rather narrow, rigid one. It's one I don't share. I see MGTOW as being on a spectrum. I also see it as a viewpoint and a lifestyle choice that can be either temporary or permanent.

Things change. People change. I think it's rather extreme to demand that someone who is 22 make a decision that he must stick to for the rest of his life, in order to "qualify." Who knows what the future will bring for this young man?

I look back on what I was like at 22. The changes I have gone through are mind-boggling. I'm not remotely the same person I used to be then. If we're open and learning, we change a lot, especially at those early ages. I think it's unreasonable to demand that MGTOW be a permanent life decision, especially for young men.

First up GYOW is not something to try out to see if you like it.

Why not? What's stopping someone from doing that? Why is going MGTOW different than other viewpoints or lifestyle choices, which you get into for a while, then move on to something else, because it no longer fits?

Why do you have to marry MGTOW? Why do you have to decide you are 100% permanently committed to follow this lifestyle for the rest of your life, or else you don't "qualify" as MGTOW? I don't understand that logic.

If you view it as potentially temporary then you’re open to changing this stance in the future. This is not the MGTOW way.

The MGTOW way is to not be open to changing your mind? Why is that? And why is that a good thing, rather than something akin to what religions or cults ask? Doesn't that imply that you are not open to alternative opinions, not open to hearing more than just your own side of the story, not open to admitting error, not open to experiences that could alter your perspective, and not open to learning or growth?

This seems unhealthy.

Going Your Own Way is not a decision, it’s a determination arrived at through understanding that there is simply no other way to have any sort of direction and control over one’s own life.

That's really just two ways of talking about a decision. The second version is someone who feels he has no other choice. He is trapped or forced into the decision.

I don't even qualify as MGTOW by that second version. I don't feel trapped or forced into MGTOW as my only option. Having a relationship with a woman doesn't automatically mean that I lose "any sort of direction and control" over my life. In fact, I wonder about a man who believes that. What has gone wrong in that man's life, so that a relationship with a woman causes him to lose "any sort of direction and control" over his life? That sounds like a simp or an approval junkie, a man without boundaries or the ability to assert himself, not a healthy man.

I have chosen going my own way as the better option, not the only option. I didn't choose it because I was afraid my life will spin out of control if I got involved with a woman. I chose it for many other reasons. I chose it long before I ever heard the label MGTOW.

p.s. I also think wrangling over who "qualifies" as MGTOW is rather silly. Myself included, since I've just spent a long post wrangling over it.

Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell

Things change. People change. I think it's rather extreme to demand that someone who is 22 make a decision that he must stick to for the rest of his life, in order to "qualify." Who knows what the future will bring for this young man?

Or what the future will bring for any of us, agreed? Anybody can change over the years, your point is heard and known, but we do not define MGTOW as a subscription service where you come and go. There are plenty of men who know they are only temporarily upset with women and some of them want to call themselves MGTOW instead of saying they are only between relationships. This dilutes the movement and already has. This confusion opens it up for our detractors as well.

It is important enough that the man be sincerely resolved today that he will not enter into relationships ever again. What more can we ask, and what more can we screen for? We don't control men, and MGTOW is not a contract with us. If anything, it's a contract with himself. If he later fails himself in this, talking about it retrospectively to him is one thing, while talking about it prospectively to him modifies his contract with himself if he thinks that's what MGTOW is.

If a man's resolve comes to an end down the road, let's save tomorrow for tomorrow and not expect it today in the things that we say.

Please assist us by not advising prospective members on these pages that they can be MGTOW without them having an unequivocal resolve today about the rest of their lives. Each man knows how old he is. Each must make this decision for himself with his unique set of facts.

Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell

Well, I'd say that's a particular definition of MGTOW, and a rather narrow, rigid one. It's one I don't share. I see MGTOW as being on a spectrum. I also see it as a viewpoint and a lifestyle choice that can be either temporary or permanent.

Things change. People change. I think it's rather extreme to demand that someone who is 22 make a decision that he must stick to for the rest of his life, in order to "qualify." Who knows what the future will bring for this young man?

I look back on what I was like at 22. The changes I have gone through are mind-boggling. I'm not remotely the same person I used to be then. If we're open and learning, we change a lot, especially at those early ages. I think it's unreasonable to demand that MGTOW be a permanent life decision, especially for young men.




Why not? What's stopping someone from doing that? Why is going MGTOW different than other viewpoints or lifestyle choices, which you get into for a while, then move on to something else, because it no longer fits?

Why do you have to marry MGTOW? Why do you have to decide you are 100% permanently committed to follow this lifestyle for the rest of your life, or else you don't "qualify" as MGTOW? I don't understand that logic.




The MGTOW way is to not be open to changing your mind? Why is that? And why is that a good thing, rather than something akin to what religions or cults ask? Doesn't that imply that you are not open to alternative opinions, not open to hearing more than just your own side of the story, not open to admitting error, not open to experiences that could alter your perspective, and not open to learning or growth?

This seems unhealthy.




That's really just two ways of talking about a decision. The second version is someone who feels he has no other choice. He is trapped or forced into the decision.

I don't even qualify as MGTOW by that second version. I don't feel trapped or forced into MGTOW as my only option. Having a relationship with a woman doesn't automatically mean that I lose "any sort of direction and control" over my life. In fact, I wonder about a man who believes that. What has gone wrong in that man's life, so that a relationship with a woman causes him to lose "any sort of direction and control" over his life? That sounds like a simp or an approval junkie, a man without boundaries or the ability to assert himself, not a healthy man.

I have chosen going my own way as the better option, not the only option. I didn't choose it because I was afraid my life will spin out of control if I got involved with a woman. I chose it for many other reasons. I chose it long before I ever heard the label MGTOW.

p.s. I also think wrangling over who "qualifies" as MGTOW is rather silly. Myself included, since I've just spent a long post wrangling over it.

I hear you, but I don’t think we’re aligned in our thoughts just yet.

My “definition” of MGTOW as you put it is not about being rigid in your thoughts; in fact it’s quite the opposite. It’s about being free from the thoughts that are sure to lead to your destruction as an individual.

If one suddenly “decides” to Go His Own Way this is fine, but he needs to understand that it’s a journey that requires further understanding. As I said earlier Going Your Own Way is not a decision. Maybe I should have said it’s not “merely” a decision although oftentimes that’s where it begins.

I admit I’m having difficulty in explaining this, so this could be a lengthy post.

To use an analogy:

An alcoholic can “decide” to give up alcohol one day and the next day be propping up a bar somewhere. So, did he really give it up? He felt good about breaking the habit, but only for a while.

Similarly:

If one “decides” to Go His Own Way with the notion in his head that he can at some stage revert to his earlier thinking is he truly Going His Own Way?


If one goes this route he has my full support in the same way as an addict trying to kick his addiction has my full support, but what you suggest is akin to kicking an addiction with the notion in mind that somewhere down the line it may be O.K. to resume this addiction because it may be in some way beneficial. Is this the advice you would give to an addict?

The things we talk about here about female nature and society’s / legal influences on a man’s decision to walk away are important to understand, but they only lead you to MGTOW.

There are many that understand these things, many more than one may think that understand these things yet still choose the blue pill way of life. We call these people purple pilled.

A MGHOW is someone who knows, balls to bone, that relationships are not for him. The rest is just a description of what led him there.

Once you truly understand this, the reasons that led you to MGTOW become trivial. This is not to understate the pain and suffering that many of us (including myself) went through to gain this understanding, I wish it had never happened, but that’s the past.

GYOW is about the future.


****

Changing one’s mind:

This is what I believe about this statement. It’s not meant as a rebuke to anyone in any way but hopefully it may go some way to explaining my earlier post:

If one has this notion of someday down the line they may come to a different conclusion to the one they have today, then they are NOT Going Their Own Way – a life free from relationships.

They are waiting for something to change. This may be a particular type of woman, a change in society’s influences, a change in the legal influences upon relationships, a combination of these things or something else, perhaps something currently intangible to them, but they are holding out hope for the one true relationship, the unicorn.

This is not Going Your Own Way, it’s living in hope. It is blue pill indoctrination leaving its mark on your psyche.

It’s not that we MGTOW reject this, of course we do, but it’s more that it has absolutely no bearing in our thinking.


There is no change of circumstances that could possibly convince me that a relationship was somehow a good idea because I no longer think in these terms. That kind of thinking is long in my past. It is no longer even a consideration.

This is what it means to Go Your Own Way.

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

Or maybe he finds that making out does not bring him the erections he used to have

Generally speaking this would be true, but since he also said:

Originally Posted by guest

I deliberately avoid dating.

I kinda ruled out this possibility in this instance.

So this effectively leaves:

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

Have you ever heard of masturbation?

Can’t say I ever had, but when I looked it up I was horrified. I’d rather cut it off than participate in such a disgraceful, disgusting activity. (Joking)

Of course I have and I do indulge, sometimes more than once a day for a while and sometimes not for months.

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

There are stimuli that occur when one is alone that can cause an erection. Your own thoughts, for example. Have you never done this? Easy to notice when erections are not full anymore.

I have on occasion experienced what is described as erectile dysfunction but there was usually a simple explanation, for example too tired or too drunk.

But there was also what I believe to be a less simple reason and it is this:

Usually for me masturbation follows the stimuli you speak of here, but there has been the odd occasion where I simply thought “Hmm, I haven’t had a tug in months”. So I’d settle and maybe put on a little porn seeking this stimulation and it didn’t work as expected.

Herein IMO lies the problem: I got it all back to front. I was trying to artificially induce the stimuli in order to allow me to knock one out. No wonder it didn’t work.

Once I understood this I realised that I was not suffering from E.D. If anything was dysfunctional it was my thinking and my approach.

Aside from the points mentioned, at all other times I’ve had no problems.

Does E.D. exist? I’m sure it does. There are a number of conditions that can cause it including the taking of some prescribed medications.

I also believe it is misdiagnosed in many cases. It’s not that the stimuli aren’t having the same results (therefore something is wrong), it’s that the conditions have changed and therefore the stimuli are not present as expected.

Take cohabitation for example. At the start you’re at it like rabbits then over time something changes. For a while you go through the motions doing the same things but not getting the same results. This IMO is not a dysfunction. Your body is working fine when properly stimulated, it’s just that you aren’t being stimulated the way you once were in that particular scenario. In other words, you get bored with the repetition.

This can also apply to self-stimulation. Taking a break from it for a while should resolve this.

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

So many ways to gauge this, Jackoff, I'm surprised you can't think of this yourself.

Yes, and there are so many ways to misguage it. That's why I asked why he believed he was suffering from E.D.

I hear what you're saying about the way you want to define MGTOW, for the purposes of this site. I expect that you will allow me to have a difference of opinion.

In my view, MGTOW requires only two things: 1) you are against marriage, cohabitation, and getting a woman pregnant (basically, things that can get you deeply entangled in the court system), and 2) you have a reasonable awareness of female nature, the court system, etc. Beyond that, men are free to go their OWN way.

That's one of the appealing things about MGTOW, at least in its original incarnation. The freedom of it. There was a wide diversity of viewpoints and lifestyles, not "One Right Way." There was no requirement that you had to commit to the lifestyle for the rest of your life, especially at 22, or else you didn't qualify as MGTOW. Or that you never would change your mind. I think those are unhealthy, rigid, and unreasonable expectations.

p.s. Seems to me there are two issues here. One is the way you choose to define membership requirements on this site. Obviously, that is your business. Second is the broader definition of the term "MGTOW." I think that is open for debate, as it always has been. I find those discussions interesting if unproductive, lol.

Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell

I hear what you're saying about the way you want to define MGTOW, for the purposes of this site. I expect that you will allow me to have a difference of opinion.

In my view, MGTOW requires only two things: 1) you are against marriage, cohabitation, and getting a woman pregnant (basically, things that can get you deeply entangled in the court system), and 2) you have a reasonable awareness of female nature, the court system, etc. Beyond that, men are free to go their OWN way.

That's one of the appealing things about MGTOW, at least in its original incarnation. The freedom of it. There was a wide diversity of viewpoints and lifestyles, not "One Right Way."There was no requirement that you had to commit to the lifestyle for the rest of your life, especially at 22, or else you didn't qualify as MGTOW. Or that you never would change your mind. I think those are unhealthy, rigid, and unreasonable expectations.

p.s. Seems to me there are two issues here. One is the way you choose to define membership requirements on this site. Obviously, that is your business. Second is the broader definition of the term "MGTOW." I think that is open for debate, as it always has been. I find those discussions interesting if unproductive, lol.

The only place you'll find more of an unhealthy, rigid, and unreasonable expectation is on team II, the other gender, the one we all ran away from!

Self flogging of loathing MGTOW is the only thing I see that's unhealthy here...

Originally Posted by mgtower

Self flogging of loathing MGTOW is the only thing I see that's unhealthy here...

Not sure what that sentence means. "Self-flogging of loathing MGTOW?" Huh?