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  1. #1
    Tarnished
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    On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Hey guys. Perhaps you could help me spread the idea of MGTOW...

    Everyone here can agree that relying on someone else for one's personal happiness is a poor idea. So how can you get it through a manís head that his goal in life should be to live it, not sit around pinning and wishing for a perfect woman to fall into his lap and "complete" him?

    I have an acquaintance who is male, mid-thirties, has a decent career with nice benefits, never married, a nearly paid off condo, good friends/caring family, etc. Yet one cannot have a conversation with him where he doesn't bring up the fact he's been single for a year and can't find a new girlfriend. He places so much emphasis on his singlehood and how horrible it makes him feel, that I've gently tried introducing him to the idea of MGTOW...if only to prevent him from getting depressed...and possible changes he could make to be more attractive (lose his extra 40 lbs, don't slouch, be more assertive about his own beliefs rather than just agreeing to agree, etc).

    He says he understands where I'm coming from, but simply can't grasp how a male can possibly be "fulfilled" without a girlfriend/wife. (To be fair, he also doesn't comprehend how a woman could be happily single either.) Itís as though he has never actually entertained the mere thought of internally based esteem.

    He places so much of his worth on female validation that it's (imo) unhealthy, and may lead to a downward spiral.

    Any advice on how I can aid this acquaintance in overcoming his need for women and this concept of external validation being the only thing that matters?
    Or is it something that must be found within?

  2. #2
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    I wish I had a simple answer, Tarn. I've been in those doldrums myself; what saved me is that I had a strong spiritual bent in the first place, and I did look within to ferret out "the why." Epictetus might be a help, but he'd have to read it and contemplate it for himself.

    This kind of personal growth can be suggested, can be recommended, but ultimately it's the person himself who has to recognize the need and do the work. You can lead a horse to water....
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  3. #3
    Tarnished
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Do you believe the gynocentrism inherent to modern Western society (the northeastern US, in my case) is so ingrained that some males are just incapable of learning anything else?

  4. #4
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    tell him. we all want sex and love for free, but when we get older we have to pay money for it.

  5. #5
    Tarnished
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Quote Originally Posted by wool.wizard View Post
    tell him we all want sex and love for free, but when we get older we have to pay money for it.
    Hmm. Thatís not really a constant.
    I'm pro-legalization of prostitution/sex work, but telling someone that they'll *have* to "pay money for sex" just seems inaccurate.

    Could you go into more detail, though? Itís entirely possible that I'm misunderstanding the context of your statement.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Malinois's Avatar
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Set him up with my ex. Then, after he's coherent enough and has the bitter taste of BPD fleas angrily melting away the lies he's been living all of his life, buy him a quality escort...

    I think a man has to first be able to see that there is a problem. Until he is questioning his own sanity and asking himself: "What is there besides sex and liability when it comes to women?", he's not going to get it...

    Experience and perseverence is the key...

    You might not want to see what happens if he ever unplugs...

  7. #7

    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    I stopped preaching MGTOW for a while now. We are not Jehova's witnesses and this is not the Salvation Army.

    And some people need to crash their own ship against the rocks. Then you can only hope that they will get their reality check. Either they get it or they don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by VLazarusC View Post
    Women, shitty in all stages in life, exponentially worse past 30.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Nuggets's Avatar
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Quote Originally Posted by Malinois View Post
    Until he is questioning his own sanity and asking himself: "What is there besides sex and liability when it comes to women?", he's not going to get it...
    I wish more men were just honest with themselves and admit this. We all know most men want to get married because they think it means long term access to sex. Sure they may want to have kids, but I think sex is the elephant in the room. If prostitution became legal in the U.S., I think most men would be secretly celebrating because they would realize they don't have to jump through hoops to get laid anymore, it just becomes a basic business transaction. When it comes down to it, if you're not interested in having kids, what's the point of an LTR besides sex? You may be getting validation, but it's never guaranteed. She'll validate you one day and hate you the next day for no reason. Overall there's no net benefit with that. The stress from random drama negates the validation.

    Even if she seems cool and chill to hang out with, there's no such thing as a non-sexual activity with her that wouldn't be more enjoyable with your male buddies.
    "The hours of folly are measured by the clock; but of wisdom, no clock can measure" - William Blake

    Nuggets = chicken nuggets. First thing that popped into my head when I signed up

  9. #9
    Senior Member Malinois's Avatar
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
    I wish more men were just honest with themselves and admit this. We all know most men want to get married because they think it means long term access to sex. Sure they may want to have kids, but I think sex is the elephant in the room. If prostitution became legal in the U.S., I think most men would be secretly celebrating because they would realize they don't have to jump through hoops to get laid anymore, it just becomes a basic business transaction. When it comes down to it, if you're not interested in having kids, what's the point of an LTR besides sex? You may be getting validation, but it's never guaranteed. She'll validate you one day and hate you the next day for no reason. Overall there's no net benefit with that. The stress from random drama negates the validation.

    Even if she seems cool and chill to hang out with, there's no such thing as a non-sexual activity with her that wouldn't be more enjoyable with your male buddies.
    I hate to come off as a conspiri-tard but, the "Blue -Pill" way of life is plain, outright brainwashing...

    I was taught, and most importantly, conditioned to think things like "ladies first" or "save the women and children "...among countless other things along that theme...

    Someone is exerting control over people and getting us to destroy ourselves...Men AND Women...

    If I could go back in time and find the fucker that coined the phrase "ladies first", I would smack the shit out of em...

    I believe the west is being deliberately destroyed from within by feminism and other bullshit ...But, who am I?

  10. #10
    Tarnished
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Quote Originally Posted by Malinois View Post
    You might not want to see what happens if he ever unplugs...
    So long as he's happy and has ceased believing external, feminine validation is what makes him complete, it doesn't matter if I like what happens.

  11. #11
    Tarnished
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Quote Originally Posted by Malinois View Post
    If I could go back in time and find the fucker that coined the phrase "ladies first", I would smack the shit out of em...
    Likewise. It's caused nothing but rampant sexism on both sides. Not only is it misandric in stating that women are inherently more important than men and deserving of preferential treatment simply due to their sex, but it's misogynistic in the implication that women are so weak and childlike that they need to be taken care of.

    Phrases such as this one are good examples of why we don't have an egalitarian society.

  12. #12

    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    I agree with with several of the comments here, essentially he is a drug addict and like any drug addict he must first hit rock bottom before he has a chance at finding his own way to freedom from his addiction. Until that time all you can do is hope his rock bottom is one he can weather the storm of without to much harm coming to himself.
    True happiness is only found within, to seek it elsewhere will result in failure.

  13. #13
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    You can certainly contribute to this process. For example, when I was in my bluest of blue pill days the film "nice guy Johnny" got me thinking. It is a corny cute chick flick just like the rest of them, until our main protagonist decides not to do what his fiance says and let the relationship end just for his personal happiness. There are more "just not entirely blue pill" films like this. You can't give him the red pill now, but you can try to get him thinking.

    You could also try to let him explain why he wants a relationship so bad. The few times somebody asked me this question I always said that there were so many people (and songs and films) who said it was so gosh darn wonderful that I wanted to explore it myself. You will probably need to ask him a few more questions but at some point he may see how poor his reasoning is.. Those are two approaches to it, I hope it helps, but you really cannot 'make him realize things' he has to do that himself.

  14. #14
    Tarnished
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Thanks for the assistance so far, everyone. I've talked to him just yesterday about it, and unfortunately it went straight over his head. He still doesn't believe that anyone could be happy single...so much so, that he actually asked me out after I said my piece. (I declined, but I did it very politely and with a hug to help cut down on the pain of rejection I was causing.)

    His thinking truly is that one is born incomplete and needs a "better half" to ever attain happiness. I am so angry that his head had been filled with lies about "soul mates" and that if he could only find a woman all of his other problems (like his depression, or the fact he's failing to meet his new goals at work) will simply disappear.

    It seems like one can truly only lead the horse to the water...

  15. #15
    Senior Member College MGTOW's Avatar
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Considering he's in his mid-30s, Tarnished, this may be a very difficult thing for him to ever fully process. Just because you can teach an old dog new tricks, doesn't mean it's not a painstaking journey to do so.

    Look, I understand putting validation of self into others. I do it myself. I, unfortunately, am defined by what I do, and not who I am. So this means hey, someone has to be looking at me doing something, to feel right. It's a tough thing to shake, it really is. However, this is damaging. At this point, it's time to break it down to economic terms, into psychic income. Ready?

    Alright, so first of all, you need an audience. That's not something that just comes out of nowhere. You will have to expend energy and time to get that audience. Then you'll actually need to perform the act. But you get no more satisfaction from performing the act than you do with the audience in the first place. What you want is that long tail effect, what we are beginning to call "creating an immortality project".

    However, the problem is, we can not trust women in creating an immortality project in monogamy in one another. And hey, we were told this is how it was supposed to work, and it doesn't. The cost is equal to, if not greater than trying to get an audience together to see it happen in the first place. The risk is 50% of all marriages, 85% started by women, 90% of the time custody goes to the woman. The reward - if you can call it that - is certainly fulfilling to a traditional protector/provider. But then, you lose all sense of self-definition. Your life becomes about your wife and your kids, in that order. You no longer have time to yourself, to keep up the man you were in the first place.

    The question becomes: Are you willing to run a 65% chance of losing your life, to have a wife? If so, why? If you are so hard pressed on it, then why aren't you working towards self-improvement to improve yourself, while as a side-effect improving your chances? The first thing women like to see is a... renaissance man. Spend an hour in the gym every other couple of days. Take an hour every other day to read. An other every other day to study your trade. Go to local meet-ups once every couple of weeks. Trust me, that is a lot right there to do, but if he's looking to improve his chances, he's got to invest in himself first.

    Also, no one likes to hear about how his life sucks. Period. Talk about the positive things that happened in your life, or quirky stories relevant or tangential to topics. Avoid talking about R.A.P.E [Religion, Abortion, Politics, Economics], talk more about F.O.R.D [Family, Occupation, Recreation, Dreams].

    Try this on him, Tarnished. Let me know how it goes.
    Game. A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

  16. #16

    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    The problem with blue pill people seems to me to cut even deeper than a chemical addiction to
    the natural heroin named dopamine.

    I think a lot of blue pills get their sense of purpose and value from
    pleasing women. So if they lose that they drop into a big hole because
    they have to face that their lives are meaningless and that is a tough
    thing to go through at any age but moreso when older.

    I had a distant acquaintance who was the bluest of bluepills and depressed
    for a long time because of long history of bad health and bad career choices,
    than last year he got very depressed over a rejection from a woman
    and posted lots of very dark facebook posts.

    I tried to feed him some red pill thinking with a few facebook messages,
    naively thinking it would help him not being depressed,
    but he died a few months later being only 40 years old.

    I don't know how he died because i was only a very
    distant acquaintance, but there is a real chance that he did
    commit suicide.

    Not everybody is in a position to go cold turkey.
    The most reasonable process to detox from blue pill is slowly
    and gradually.
    Last edited by EiziEizz; April 16, 2015 at 12:23 AM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Inspector Callahan's Avatar
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Tell your friend to rub his pecker raw with 40-grit sandpaper, pour a handful of iodized salt on it, then stare in the bathroom mirror and recite to himself “You are a worthless piece of shit who is completely stupid and devoid of any useful value whatsoever.”

    Then he will know what it’s like to be with a woman.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    "So how can you get it through a man’s head that his goal in life should be to live it, not sit around pinning and wishing for a perfect woman to fall into his lap and "complete" him?"

    If his libido is functional, the lizard portion of his brain will do (2) things.
    (1) make him chase the holy pussy grail at all costs to him physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially. To sign up for slavery.
    (2) make him ridicule and attempt to emasculate any man who would willingly walk away from the sexual market arena.

    Most men are too mind-f*cked on testosterone following their own stiff prick around to hear any common sense or see what they're really sacrificing. Being seen as a "lesser man for quitting" is not an option. All of his programming and all of his algorithms (and the vast majority of his behavior) is based on being as close to top dog as he can, and avoiding being the low dog at all costs. One way to LOOK like you're not the low dog is to ridicule any and all men within a rung or two on the proverbial ladder... If YOU are ridiculing HIM then this is a stance - a position of ones' self above the man who is ridiculed. Some men fight such a man, or try to out do him, or out smart him.

    A MGTOW walks away, smiling, knowing that he is immune to the mental cancer that operates such a fool.

    If we share our experiences, we can offer hope to men who have hit bottom in their experiences with women, and know that there is life after women, and life after relationshits.

    If men want to keep being more and more beta, and carry on with more feminism kowtowing, and more white-knighting, and more pussy begging, lowering the bar of "pathetic" as they go, then more power to them.

    When they have given up all pride, their balls, and all self respect maybe they too will realize that too much is asked of them considering what they are getting. And that is.... What are they getting again? Oh that's right. Entitled women who would trade up in a second and dynamite a family with children in a long drawn out Frivorce(tm).

    Yeah, they "da man". Indeed.

    MGTOW is here for them when they too reach the end of the last road, and there is just nowhere else to go.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  19. #19

    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious_Sid View Post

    If his libido is functional, the lizard portion of his brain will do (2) things.
    (1) make him chase the holy pussy grail at all costs to him physically, emotionally, spiritually and financially. To sign up for slavery.
    (2) make him ridicule and attempt to emasculate any man who would willingly walk away from the sexual market arena.
    On his last podcast show Stefan Molyneux coined the term:

    dicknapped (your mind kidnapped by your dick)

    Which fits perfectly into this context.

  20. #20
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: On Not Needing Women For Personal Happiness

    Electroshock therapy can be exceedingly effective in deprogramming

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
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