Thread: I have a hard time understanding MGTOW

And one more thing that I forgot

You are so unsure of your beliefs that you are so scared of what I have to say

You said why I can't leave you alone because you don't crave what I do (I will ignore the part where I'm a woman or that I'm up the asses of women as it adds nothing to the conversation) and this is fine no issues but I don't see why are you scared if I give an alternative option and people can make up their own minds.

As an example

1. They can do their own research and talk to a lawyer and see if I'm full of shit or not.
2. If they want a family but don't because of laws type of women and society they have an alternative.
3. Someone might want to live in a tropical place better than wherever they are living at the moment as many people think that to move to a place like that you need to have 10 mil in the bank. (they do not have to give up being an MGTOW)
4. There is such a thing called I don't want anything to do with women and I think your advice is shit even if it works and I'm not going to take it. ( I can't force anyone to do anything)

The problem I have with your approach of shut up and "This is the problem. You possibly honestly don’t see what’s so wrong with what you’re saying."

I would like for people to think of all the available options and make up their own minds about what to do not a situation where well you have only two options MGTOW or roll the dice and get divorce raped, accused of something you did not do etc. there is a third option as well and this is the option I took.

which one everyone takes is up to them.

I will leave you with this: When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say

Wtf is this bs. Not even a single person has been trying to silence you. That's internet discussion for ya. Any forum/social media thread with lax speech restrictions will look similiraly.

Now why aren't we convinced? Have the laws changed? Have the laws been stricken? Have women changed? The answer is triple no. Even in more traditional countries women have the same nature. Each day they soak in via Internet the rot that is rampant on the west and embrace it. I come from such a country. We're just 15-20 years behind US. Laws and courts are already heavily sided towards women. This will change only for worse as there is no stopping that.

You also forget the other side of the coin. Laws can change . UK just made no-fault divorce legal. Do you really think all already married couples won't be held to that law (lex retro non agit)? Culture can change. Ever heard about westernization or globalization? Given enough time it will wash away any cultural restrictions imposed on local women. Have your lawyers taken that into account? Are they soothsayers? Do you know that in this scenario you will have not one but two countries after you? Do you know that these times countries (especially western ones) really love to cooperate regarding investigations and catching criminals? Are you even aware how unbelievably effective they are in this kind of persecution?

There is also an elephant in the room. The less western country you have, the more rampant corruption there is. In these countries law is taken more as a suggestion than an ironclad rule. Shotgun marriages, relatives organizing a pursuit, judges ruling not according to law but their inner sense of justice. Have you also taken that into account?

As I've said I also have the very same ability that you have. I can render state basically unable to cuck me. More than that - you will always be an outsider while I'm native. You will be always perceived as stranger. You will never know the rules, people and local laws as good as i do.

Why am I telling you this? Even I with all of the advantages am in the lost position. Hoops will become void with the change of laws. Exercising your boundaries is frowned upon. Divorce is frowned upon regardless of who did what. I've seen many men that got a beautiful gf which got really fat after marriage. We have even a special name for them. I suspect similiar behaviour regarding sexual access, chores or any kind of support that woman promised.

Honestly I don't believe you are even aware of half of the issues. Your way of thinking is very american (i adore that tbh but in this case it should be considered a flaw). You strongly believe in law. You believe that it will shield you from kangaroo courts and that you can safely discard any illegal behaviour as a potential threat. Ufortunatelly it's not a case. It's simply is not.

I'm new here but even i know why most MGTOW's react so harshly. People like you arrive and act as they've invented a holy grail when your solution are the "square wheels". They instantly see the flaws as their way of thinking changed. They were through the ringer and gained similiar mindset to ppl you find in nonwestern countries. They don't trust the law, they don't trust the system. Their country has betrayed them.

You know in countries i mentioned, this way of thinking didn't come from our culture. It came from the corruption, the sense of betrayal and being a prey. You couldn't (or cannot) trust the authority figures. You knew that law is treated only as toilet paper. Most MGTOW's received very similiar treatment from their country. If you don't believe me look for a case of JD vs AH - it's basically a blueprint.


I will leave you with this - If your contry has cut your tongue, it doesn't matter what you have to say because you are mute.

Originally Posted by bazalgette

Wtf is this bs. Not even a single person has been trying to silence you. That's internet discussion for ya. Any forum/social media thread with lax speech restrictions will look similiraly.

Now why aren't we convinced? Have the laws changed? Have the laws been stricken? Have women changed? The answer is triple no. Even in more traditional countries women have the same nature. Each day they soak in via Internet the rot that is rampant on the west and embrace it. I come from such a country. We're just 15-20 years behind US. Laws and courts are already heavily sided towards women. This will change only for worse as there is no stopping that.

Did you read my opening post for this tread and what I was saying?

This is just not true it does not matter what are the laws that is the beauty of this approach if you live in and are married in the Dominican Republic and you never bring your wife to the US and she divorces you she cant go to the US and the Dominican Republic cant say she gets 50% (no jurisdiction in the US)

Now if you stupid to buy property there or have all your money in a local bank she will be able to take that (this is one of the reasons why I rent in Bali and why I never keep more than 4k in a local bank)

Furthermore if you don't believe me talk to a lawyer.

Also give me an article or a court case where someone from the west moved to a non western country got married there never took his wife to the west and they got divorced and she took him 50% of what he had in the west. (not the local country she will get that)

Now we come to the part that everyone ignores and no one likes to give me an answer even though I have asked this question at least 2-3 times

The nature of women have been the same since the beginning of time then why in the 1950 divorce rate in the single digits and children out of wedlock 5% (no-one seems to want to address this point.)

If its all their nature that matters than devoice rate all the rest of the crap should have been the same forever.

Its all about incentives and consequences in the west today women don't have consequences for their bad actions (she cheats she still gets 50%) so they have an incentive to act badly.

Now if you have no assets there (Dominican republic or in my case Bali this is just an example) and she gets nothing and you have lots of girls chasing you and you can replace her anytime you want she wont get fat she will go to the gym she wont nag you she wont say ooh no sex as she knows you can easily get it somewhere else and she can't be well at least I will get cash and prices when I leave him for cheating as she gets jack shit you have no assets there.

Men are the same (those that can) why does 10% chad does not commit and does not give a shit about the women because he has all the women trowing themselves at him so he just plays the field.

Chad does not get shit tested Chad does not get nagged why? (insert any shit you can think of) because he is the more valuable one in the relationship there are only few chads and all the girls want them (basic economics of supply and demand)

Well if you are somewhere like Bali or the Dominican republic and are a successful westerner you are chad (very few of you and all the women chase after you)

Originally Posted by bazalgette

You also forget the other side of the coin. Laws can change . UK just made no-fault divorce legal. Do you really think all already married couples won't be held to that law (lex retro non agit)? Culture can change. Ever heard about westernization or globalization? Given enough time it will wash away any cultural restrictions imposed on local women. Have your lawyers taken that into account? Are they soothsayers? Do you know that in this scenario you will have not one but two countries after you? Do you know that these times countries (especially western ones) really love to cooperate regarding investigations and catching criminals? Are you even aware how unbelievably effective they are in this kind of persecution?

There is also an elephant in the room. The less western country you have, the more rampant corruption there is. In these countries law is taken more as a suggestion than an ironclad rule. Shotgun marriages, relatives organizing a pursuit, judges ruling not according to law but their inner sense of justice. Have you also taken that into account?

As I've said I also have the very same ability that you have. I can render state basically unable to cuck me. More than that - you will always be an outsider while I'm native. You will be always perceived as stranger. You will never know the rules, people and local laws as good as i do.

Why am I telling you this? Even I with all of the advantages am in the lost position. Hoops will become void with the change of laws. Exercising your boundaries is frowned upon. Divorce is frowned upon regardless of who did what. I've seen many men that got a beautiful gf which got really fat after marriage. We have even a special name for them. I suspect similiar behaviour regarding sexual access, chores or any kind of support that woman promised.

Honestly I don't believe you are even aware of half of the issues. Your way of thinking is very american (i adore that tbh but in this case it should be considered a flaw). You strongly believe in law. You believe that it will shield you from kangaroo courts and that you can safely discard any illegal behaviour as a potential threat. Ufortunatelly it's not a case. It's simply is not.

I'm new here but even i know why most MGTOW's react so harshly. People like you arrive and act as they've invented a holy grail when your solution are the "square wheels". They instantly see the flaws as their way of thinking changed. They were through the ringer and gained similiar mindset to ppl you find in nonwestern countries. They don't trust the law, they don't trust the system. Their country has betrayed them.

You know in countries i mentioned, this way of thinking didn't come from our culture. It came from the corruption, the sense of betrayal and being a prey. You couldn't (or cannot) trust the authority figures. You knew that law is treated only as toilet paper. Most MGTOW's received very similiar treatment from their country. If you don't believe me look for a case of JD vs AH - it's basically a blueprint.


I will leave you with this - If your contry has cut your tongue, it doesn't matter what you have to say because you are mute.

So many incorrect things with what you said let me explain

1. Laws do not matter you are not subject to western law (you don't leave there) and you don't have any assets where you live and are married.
2. If you go to a Muslim country like Indonesia you as the man has the advantage not the women.
3. These countries are more corrupt this is true but who do you think that favors, you with a lot of money from the west or her with a local salary of 400$ a month?
4. I know the laws of Bali better than almost all the locals as the locals never had the need to learn them I had to.
5. Never felt excluded or a stranger (lot of tourists from all around the world and the locals are extremely friendly I felt more excluded in Canada then here)
6. Jonny and Aber is the perfect example if JD was some rich guy from the US leaving in the Dominican Republic (with no assets there) and married with AH in the Dominican republic AH could have just sucked his dick nothing more.

He is famous so that complicates things but most people are not.

Well said bazalgette. Rep incoming.

Most Americans don't understand how much power smaller countries have over their average citizens. No giant cooperation's, no military industrial complex's, no political lobbies with millions of dollars to throw around. There, government is king. I'm not much of a globetrotter, but I saw it happening when the Army sent me to Panama long ago. There, the president and his cronies had the entire country by the ball sack, and there was no competition of any kind near as I could tell. And while the government of such a country might welcome you or let you be today, that could change at any time.

I'm glad things worked out good for you silver and hope it stays that way. And since this is opposing views, we've let you have your say. But it should be clear even to you that you ain't winning many hearts and minds here. We like hearing about your tropical paradise, the rest not so much. Since no one's going to change their minds, I'd say it's getting close to quitting time on this thread unless you got something new.

Originally Posted by frog

Well said bazalgette. Rep incoming.

Most Americans don't understand how much power smaller countries have over their average citizens. No giant cooperation's, no military industrial complex's, no political lobbies with millions of dollars to throw around. There, government is king. I'm not much of a globetrotter, but I saw it happening when the Army sent me to Panama long ago. There, the president and his cronies had the entire country by the ball sack, and there was no competition of any kind near as I could tell. And while the government of such a country might welcome you or let you be today, that could change at any time.

I'm glad things worked out good for you silver and hope it stays that way. And since this is opposing views, we've let you have your say. But it should be clear even to you that you ain't winning many hearts and minds here. We like hearing about your tropical paradise, the rest not so much. Since no one's going to change their minds, I'd say it's getting close to quitting time on this thread unless you got something new.

This is fine I got what I wanted out of this tread and we can agree to disagree because you are right in what you are saying except for two things corruption works in your favor as you have money and can bribe if you need to etc...

And for her doing something illegal this does not works as many of those countries while being more corrupt they have laws (its not the wild wild west) if it was that bad there would not be millions upon millions of people coming here every year. (they can kill you and rob you and no problem as you say no laws)

If you go to a developing (second world) country you are fine now if you go to a third world country (think Afghanistan) where they don't have proper infrastructure or electricity and no laws no safety no health care etc...

I will say it again name me one example court case story of anything like that where this happened. (in a developing country not in Africa or Afghanistan)

Again is it a 100% it wont happen no but its 99% (I like those odds) I have a bigger chance to have a car crash or a plane accident than that.

What part of that is not logical and does not make sense?

I will even say what I got out of this tread in my opinion there are three types of MGTOW (Based on this tread)

1. Those who don't want anything to do with women to matter what and if god came down from the heavens and said here is an unicorn for you they would say no way in hell.

I respect these people very much they are happy as is and don't want to change anything. (and have no issue with their choice)

2. People who think I'm lying and are saying ohh this is not true she can divorce rape you or do something illegal to you etc...

I find these people funny as they cant provide any argument an example court case a story whatever where this happened and when I say talk you a lawyer and you can make sure yourself they ignore that part and still think I'm l lying.

3. People who think countries like Bali have no laws and she can kill you get her family or whatever this is very funny as these countries are more corrupt true but its not the wild wild west. (you can read up on the net if you don't believe me that bail has good infrastructure health care and is safe etc...)

They want a 100% sure thing its not a 100% but its 99% and in anything if you can raise it 99% you are good to go.

One last thing a lot of people think this can't be done or make up some stupid things like ohh she can divorce rape you or she can do something illegal to you etc... those are the the ones I don't understand.

The ones that say its not a question can we but should we and in our opinion we should not because is not worth the hassle I can completely see their point and I agree with that no issue there (is a hassle to move to a different place new people etc...)

After all, we're running around with our economies on fire, importing millions of illegals (Biden admin; human trafficking), a 40 year stretch of industrial abandonment, housing crisis, crime, falling standards, hyperinflation, and every possible quagmire when a government becomes incorrigible from it's intrusive and destructive ways. Our end as a superpower is near, we're being raped, robed, and molested in every possible way, now spanning cradle to grave, and still a ray of hope like you thinks everything can be okay?

America has been transformed to very ugly place where division is king, some above the law, others condemned by law, and the masters that decide who's who, who shall, who shall not, and who to frame, then take them out.

Fantasy world is too far from reality for me to ever believe. Hell on earth is all I see in every facet of reality, I live to avoid the flames, it's the only thing I know. I'm not a fire juggler living on fantasy island, I'm a man living in the altered state of reality where timelines of this cultural revolution have lead us to doom, death, or exile.

Originally Posted by mgtower

I'm a man living in the altered state of reality where timelines of this cultural revolution have lead us to doom, death, or exile.

Exactly finally someone really gets my point is not just marriage and I would rather live here even if i was single.

I have chosen exile away from the western world take that as you will.

I also second the statement that you won't find much of an support here. Idk maybye PUA communities like Liminal Order will be interested.
As others noted, reiterating the same points by both sides is only a waste of time. This will be my final reply.

You have hard time understanding MGTOW because you refuse to. You didn't came here for answers but to offer solutions. "Complaining about it is not going to change anything" - this was your notion.

You've assumed we seek change. We don't. Most of us are pretty content with our lives.
You've offered us a legal marriage as a better alternative to being alone and asked us what we think about it. Our reponses could be summed up in one sentence: Legal marriage is never a good option as it gets the state involved.

TBH i think it's kinda obvious that you have a different agenda than understanding MGTOW.
As others have already said - gl hf with your endavor.

Originally Posted by Silver

You are so unsure of your beliefs that you are so scared of what I have to say

Yes I fear your words, but not for the reason you state. I, and every member of this site are certain about the ways of women. That’s exactly why we welcome opposing views.

My fear is for the non-members who read this site and may be convinced by your BS.

You’re the type of guy that likes to walk into an AA meeting and tries to convince them to go for a drink after the meeting. The problem you walked into here was confusing us with your “friends” and others who post online who claim to be MGTOW but are nowhere near.

For the last time I’ll tell you this: IT ISN’T ABOUT THE LAW, IT’S ABOUT THE BEHAVIOUR OF WOMEN.

Anyone, and I mean ANYONE that would seek solace in marriage to a woman even if the laws were all in men’s favour is NOT MGTOW.

One last point. You mentioned your “MGTOW friends” in your opening post. If you consider them MGTOW, or they consider themselves MGTOW, then you didn’t succeed in convincing them either – your friends. This tells me that they know you’re full of it too!


p.s. Thanks Frog for leaving this thread open long enough for this, my final post on the subject.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

For the last time I’ll tell you this: IT ISN’T ABOUT THE LAW, IT’S ABOUT THE BEHAVIOUR OF WOMEN.

This is the issue I have if their nature is the same and BEHAVIOUR then why in 1950 this was not the case the stats prove it (single-digit divorce rate 5% children out of wedlock) but no one wants to address that point. (as it goes against MGTOW narrative of look their BEHAVIOR AND NATURE are always bad.)

The behavior is not the issue the laws that allow the behavior is the problem. (that is the only thing that makes sense and why there is such a huge difference from 1950 and 2022)

I don't know how to close a thread yet, but I'm not going to approve any more replys. This one's a dead horse. Silver, best a luck to ya.

OP, you will not get your answer from the posters here; these people think that the only reason a man would want children is because he has been brainwashed by women. It's funny because it's similar to the way feminists believe that the only reason a women would want to be a stay-at-home mother is because she has been brainwashed by men. The posters here also seem to lack basic reading comprehension, assuming that their motivations are the same as those of your friends who actually want the traditional setup but are too scared of the divorce risk to try.

The answer to your question is that your friends are too unimaginative, too ignorant, too prejudiced, or too parochial to try what you have done. I'm betting on too unimaginative. People tend to stick to the familiar in my experience, sometimes even when the "comfort zone" is quite uncomfortable.

By the way, if your friends can use your strategy they are a fortunate bunch indeed. I don't think it's a generally relevant strategy because I doubt most people are in a position to; I certainly do not have the financial assets needed. A friend of mine did marry a South East Asian and move there over a decade ago so I know from his case that it can work, but it is rare.

Originally Posted by Unregistered Coward

OP, you will not get your answer from the posters here; these people think that the only reason a man would want children is because he has been brainwashed by women. It's funny because it's similar to the way feminists believe that the only reason a women would want to be a stay-at-home mother is because she has been brainwashed by men. The posters here also seem to lack basic reading comprehension, assuming that their motivations are the same as those of your friends who actually want the traditional setup but are too scared of the divorce risk to try.

The answer to your question is that your friends are too unimaginative, too ignorant, too prejudiced, or too parochial to try what you have done. I'm betting on too unimaginative. People tend to stick to the familiar in my experience, sometimes even when the "comfort zone" is quite uncomfortable.

By the way, if your friends can use your strategy they are a fortunate bunch indeed. I don't think it's a generally relevant strategy because I doubt most people are in a position to; I certainly do not have the financial assets needed. A friend of mine did marry a South East Asian and move there over a decade ago so I know from his case that it can work, but it is rare.

Yes i got that and i completely agree with you as i had another chat with my friends yesterday and told them this.

You have four options

1. Be MGTOW and just give up on a family
2. Roll the dice on marriage in the west
3. Date casual but still take the risk of false accusations etc... Smaller risk but still
4. Do what i did.


However when we chat i have no problem hearing some interesting article but if the conversation turn into poor me i want a family but can't look at the laws or something similar i will stop the conversation there as Im not interested constant complaints with no action.

So i have one of them saying he will come for two months in September to see how it is here meet me and then make up his mind.

And you are correct you need to have like 2000-3000 a month to do this and my friend easily can most of them have more assets then me.

Originally Posted by frog

I don't know how to close a thread yet, but I'm not going to approve any more replys. This one's a dead horse. Silver, best a luck to ya.

Thread closed.