Thread: I have a hard time understanding MGTOW

Originally Posted by Jackoff;182464Hmm. The operative word her is “if”. [B

IF[/B] you want a family and a relationshit you are not a MGHOW. This is the point that eludes you. MGTOW have realised the futility of this endeavour.

I would agree with this no issues there (my friends say they do but it's because of the laws etc...)

As for the “Be alone” bit, I did not mean this literally alone in the sense of family and kids of your own.

As for the legal bit it's not true I talked with 2 lawyers before getting married and they said as long as you don't bring her here and ratify the marriage she gets jack shit you will forgive me if I trust the legal professionals more than I trust you.

As for my friends not being MGTOW not sure but they are saying they would want to (but think that the risk is too great) what I said was that I agree and this is my solution I did not say they had to do it.

That is like you going to a friend saying I want to earn money but the regular way is too risky and your friend saying this is what worked for me I don't see why is that so wrong.

That does not mean I'm right or that the same approach is right for you.

Tnx for the polite answer I actually understand a bit more and the thing is one of two things in my opinion.

1. They either don't want a family at all they are just saying they do.
2. They are not willing to do what is needed if they want a family of their own as they think the sacrifice is too great (as moving to a different country for whatever reason is tricky, especially in the beginning)

Originally Posted by Jackoff

@ SilverN

Wow.

No kidding you have a hard time understanding MGTOW. Could it be because you SIMPly don’t want to?

Or maybe you’re a female posing as a guy to try to herd us back to the farm?

Either way it makes no odds. You say you’ve come here to propose another option but that’s just a pure out-and-out lie.

You’re attempting to poke holes in our reasoning, so allow me to respond in kind.

For the sake of discussion, let’s assume you are male and being sincere in your advice.

The desire for the family life that has been programmed in to you is so complete that you’re willing to give up everyone and everything around you, aside from your precious investments, and even those you’re willing to put in the hands of strangers.



Hmm. The operative word her is “if”. IF you want a family and a relationshit you are not a MGHOW. This is the point that eludes you. MGTOW have realised the futility of this endeavour.

As for the “Be alone” bit, who says we’re alone? We have friends just like everyone else. Ah, but what about when you go home you may ask? Well, I get to relax and do whatever I wish without anything to destroy my harmony. It’s a peaceful bliss.



You’re delusional sir. Women are what women are the world over. In some cultures it may not be prudent to advertise this fact but they are basically all the same although their methodology may differ.

Your wife may seem like the perfect unicorn, but that’s only because you’ve bought in to her scam. The valuing of family is a ruse to keep herself on the gravy train. Remove that option and see how much she values family. She will use every option at her disposal to keep that train running including, but not limited to, turning your kids against you. So much for family values!



More delusion. You are legally married and that marriage will be recognised in your home country. Even if she never set foot in your home country she can sue THROUGH THOSE COURTS and since your assets are there they will have jurisdiction and will assign them where they will.



Self contradicting rubbish. If you change the rules then you’re not playing the game. Anyhow, how does one change the rules when they’re not the ones making them? However I’m happy that you’re happy in your new-found plantation.



If your friends want a family, they are definitely NOT MGTOW. However, many MGTOW will appear to give excuses as you call it because they don’t wish to tell you how to live your life. These “excuses” are simply a way to deflect the constant onslaught of people trying to tell us how to live our lives without starting a fight.


In summation:

The laws and culture in the west is not the only reason many of us walk away. They are merely one part of a bigger picture, that picture being what women are at heart.

They grow up being fawned over and this continues into their adulthood so they expect nothing other than subservience from all around them, even other women. Have you noticed how women constantly bitch about everything, even their female friends? This is who they are. The world is meant to revolve around them and when it doesn’t they strike out with any means at their disposal.


All this being said you may think I’m some sort of woman hating POS but that’s not true. I like the company of women and there are even a few I admire, but when you get involved with them romantically you’d have to be blind and deaf not to notice their manipulative, self-serving ways.

I forgot to reply to your summary....

Let me first say that i don't think you hate women you are just saying what you think how is that hating anyone.

Now the part where i disagree you say women just complain and all the rest that is part of their nature.

With this i completely agree the only issue is it doesn't matter at all...

The reason why i say this is because female nature is like this from the beginning of time so then explain to me why in the 1950 the divorce in the single digits children out of wedlock 5% etc...

The difference is the laws such as no fault divorce which allowed for female nature to go unchecked.

Well here this is not the case considering she cant divorce rape me and if she gets out of line i can leave.

In the 7 years i have been married i have had two serious disagreements that were very important to me so i just said at the end my way or the high way if you don't like it there is the door.

Would i have been able to do this if i could get divorce raped no way.

As for the legal bit it's not true I talked with 2 lawyers before getting married and they said as long as you don't bring her here and ratify the marriage she gets jack shit you will forgive me if I trust the legal professionals more than I trust you.

You are very right not to trust me with regards legal matters, not because I’m wrong but because you don’t know who the hell I am and what my personal agenda might be. To you I’m an unknown that hides behind a pseudonym.

So, you spoke to TWO lawyers eh? And they both told you she gets jack shit. Maybe this is true and maybe not, after all it all comes down to the judge of the day and the times they are a changing.

Ratification of the marriage? If you have kids together there isn’t a judge on the planet that wouldn’t ratify that marriage.

May I make an assumption that you are from what we now call a first world country? Perhaps the U.S.A.?

So the marriage fails, not a prediction just a hypothetical. She gets angry, as they do, and decides to sue. She gets herself a top class lawyer from Bali (if such a beast exists) who agrees to work pro-bono for the chance of the notoriety of fighting a case in a U.S. court.

You, on the other hand go back to your advisors who swore to you that she doesn’t stand a chance in hell of winning. You trust them to win your battle on your behalf and maybe they do, hands down.

But they didn’t tell you that she can’t sue at all did they? They fight your case and eventually win but because of jurisdiction issues it takes time – a looooong time – and to a lawyer time is money. She’s getting her shit for free while you’re paying through the nose.

At the end of the day you’re financially destroyed. She wins, not because she got her hands on your dosh but because her vindictiveness payed off.

As to your lawyer friends that gave you such good advice – did their offices have BIG windows so they could see you coming?

1. They either don't want a family at all they are just saying they do.

Hmm. Possibly. Many MGTOW put forth the notion that in an ideal world that they would love to have the ideal family, but we don’t live in this Disneyesque fantasy land. The red-pill is about seeing things as they are, not as we would wish them to be.

2. They are not willing to do what is needed if they want a family of their own as they think the sacrifice is too great (as moving to a different country for whatever reason is tricky, especially in the beginning)

Ah, now we get to the crux of it. We are “not willing to do what is needed”.

This has been the war cry of many a troll. It comes in many forms, usually along the lines of “You just don’t know how to keep a woman happy”, but it’s the same bullshit.

All I can say is you’re absolutely damn spank-on right. We are NOT willing to do what is needed because what is needed is to demean ourselves and make ourselves subservient to the whims of women’s erratic, irrational behaviour, and even when men do this it’s still not enough because they then see us as doormats to be stepped on on their way out the door to get pounded by Chad.

Alternatively you can stand up to her and dictate the rules of the relationshit, which she’ll resent because she is totally convinced that she knows better than you and will divorce rape you whilst all the time getting pounded by Chad.

Hey SilverN, you’re not a troll. You came here because you know something’s wrong. There’s a disparity between what you have been brought up to believe and your evident reasoning abilities. If you’re seeking peace and harmony in your life as you stated in an earlier post then one of them must give. It’s up to you to decide which one it should be.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The reason why i say this is because female nature is like this from the beginning of time so then explain to me why in the 1950 the divorce in the single digits children out of wedlock 5% etc...

The difference is the laws such as no fault divorce which allowed for female nature to go unchecked.

You’ve answered your own question. The laws may have changed but female nature is as it always was.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

You are very right not to trust me with regards legal matters, not because I’m wrong but because you don’t know who the hell I am and what my personal agenda might be. To you I’m an unknown that hides behind a pseudonym.

So, you spoke to TWO lawyers eh? And they both told you she gets jack shit. Maybe this is true and maybe not, after all it all comes down to the judge of the day and the times they are a changing.

Ratification of the marriage? If you have kids together there isn’t a judge on the planet that wouldn’t ratify that marriage.

May I make an assumption that you are from what we now call a first world country? Perhaps the U.S.A.?

So the marriage fails, not a prediction just a hypothetical. She gets angry, as they do, and decides to sue. She gets herself a top class lawyer from Bali (if such a beast exists) who agrees to work pro-bono for the chance of the notoriety of fighting a case in a U.S. court.

You, on the other hand go back to your advisors who swore to you that she doesn’t stand a chance in hell of winning. You trust them to win your battle on your behalf and maybe they do, hands down.

But they didn’t tell you that she can’t sue at all did they? They fight your case and eventually win but because of jurisdiction issues it takes time – a looooong time – and to a lawyer time is money. She’s getting her shit for free while you’re paying through the nose.

At the end of the day you’re financially destroyed. She wins, not because she got her hands on your dosh but because her vindictiveness payed off.

As to your lawyer friends that gave you such good advice – did their offices have BIG windows so they could see you coming?



Hmm. Possibly. Many MGTOW put forth the notion that in an ideal world that they would love to have the ideal family, but we don’t live in this Disneyesque fantasy land. The red-pill is about seeing things as they are, not as we would wish them to be.



Ah, now we get to the crux of it. We are “not willing to do what is needed”.

This has been the war cry of many a troll. It comes in many forms, usually along the lines of “You just don’t know how to keep a woman happy”, but it’s the same bullshit.

All I can say is you’re absolutely damn spank-on right. We are NOT willing to do what is needed because what is needed is to demean ourselves and make ourselves subservient to the whims of women’s erratic, irrational behaviour, and even when men do this it’s still not enough because they then see us as doormats to be stepped on on their way out the door to get pounded by Chad.

Alternatively you can stand up to her and dictate the rules of the relationshit, which she’ll resent because she is totally convinced that she knows better than you and will divorce rape you whilst all the time getting pounded by Chad.

Hey SilverN, you’re not a troll. You came here because you know something’s wrong. There’s a disparity between what you have been brought up to believe and your evident reasoning abilities. If you’re seeking peace and harmony in your life as you stated in an earlier post then one of them must give. It’s up to you to decide which one it should be.

This is a reply to your post #21. I haven't read your next reply yet.

Let me give you a bit of background about me so you know why I say she can't divorce or rape me...

I'm originally from New Zealand but when I was 20 after finishing my two-years IT security vocational school I moved to Canada. (got a crazy good offer so I moved)

So I made my money there and my properties crypto investments etc...

1. I'm in Bali on a New Zealand passport she has no clue I have a Canadian one as well and no clue I have ever been in Canada. (and that my properties are there not in new Zealand)

So let's say she decided to try something and goes to New Zealand I don't really care I have nothing there and I will find out about it. (which will give me a chance to react)

So she needs to somehow figure out where I have all this. that is her first problem.

2. All my properties are in an LLC and my lawyers say this further complicates things for her.

3. The marriage is recognized but not the divorce so she needs to first ratify the marriage (while being married) and I need to agree to that as she needs my corporation for that. (there are a lot of legalities for example if I would want to take her with me to live in Canada) and then if we get divorced I'm in trouble but if she divorces me in Indonesia before going to Canada to ratify the marriage (which is very difficult without my corporation) she is out of luck. (this is what I was told I'm not a legal expert)

4 Furthermore due to this being an international issue (just as you said it takes a lot of time which was confirmed by my lawyers as well) I can sell them and get crypto instead and crypto no one can touch 50% of zero is zero.

5. She needs to get a idk how good of a lawyer to accomplish this if it's at all possible and the cost will be bigger than what she is going to get.

I wish her good luck (if we ever get to that point) and if she actually manages to pull it off she deserves every penny.

So as I said no divorce rape.

Now on to the female nature part you misunderstood my point the issue is not with their nature is that they are allowed to express that nature with no consequences.

I will give you an analogy to make my point

You can be a scorpion and if you sting me I will die but if I cut off your tail you are powerless.

The same goes with female nature if she can't hurt me and she loses a lot more if I leave (as I can much more easily replace her than she can replace me)

So there are huge consequences if she does cheat or act like a child or whatever her nature is and this is the reason why she won't.

This is how it has worked from the beginning of time (you cheat you get stoned in the village square so let's see will you cheat) it's only in modern times where women in the west can do whatever they like.

Just so we are clear I love her but more importantly I respect her and I don't think that it will ever come to that the above was just an example of a worst-case scenario situation. (where she can do absolutely nothing to me)

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Let me give you a bit of background about me so you know why I say she can't divorce or rape me...

I'm originally from New Zealand but when I was 20 after finishing my two-years IT security vocational school I moved to Canada. (got a crazy good offer so I moved)

So I made my money there and my properties crypto investments etc...

1. I'm in Bali on a New Zealand passport she has no clue I have a Canadian one as well and no clue I have ever been in Canada. (and that my properties are there not in new Zealand)

So let's say she decided to try something and goes to New Zealand I don't really care I have nothing there and I will find out about it. (which will give me a chance to react)

So she needs to somehow figure out where I have all this. that is her first problem.

2. All my properties are in an LLC and my lawyers say this further complicates things for her.

3. The marriage is recognized but not the divorce so she needs to first ratify the marriage (while being married) and I need to agree to that as she needs my corporation for that. (there are a lot of legalities for example if I would want to take her with me to live in Canada) and then if we get divorced I'm in trouble but if she divorces me in Indonesia before going to Canada to ratify the marriage (which is very difficult without my corporation) she is out of luck. (this is what I was told I'm not a legal expert)

4 Furthermore due to this being an international issue (just as you said it takes a lot of time which was confirmed by my lawyers as well) I can sell them and get crypto instead and crypto no one can touch 50% of zero is zero.

5. She needs to get a idk how good of a lawyer to accomplish this if it's at all possible and the cost will be bigger than what she is going to get.

I wish her good luck (if we ever get to that point) and if she actually manages to pull it off she deserves every penny.

So as I said no divorce rape.

Now on to the female nature part you misunderstood my point the issue is not with their nature is that they are allowed to express that nature with no consequences.

I will give you an analogy to make my point

You can be a scorpion and if you sting me I will die but if I cut off your tail you are powerless.

The same goes with female nature if she can't hurt me and she loses a lot more if I leave (as I can much more easily replace her than she can replace me)

So there are huge consequences if she does cheat or act like a child or whatever her nature is and this is the reason why she won't.

This is how it has worked from the beginning of time (you cheat you get stoned in the village square so let's see will you cheat) it's only in modern times where women in the west can do whatever they like.

Just so we are clear I love her but more importantly I respect her and I don't think that it will ever come to that the above was just an example of a worst-case scenario situation. (where she can do absolutely nothing to me)

All that is crafty fine and dandy, a real cat and mouse run around. The one thing you're not considering is a women scorn or perceived to be scorn, will move outside the confines of any law that disables them, then one day you show up floating in a canal and she walks away with everything with the help of these same lawyers you placed your trust in.

You can't win the game no matter how well you play your hand, they always have an ace up their sleeve because that's how they play.

Peddling marriage around here is kin to selling an air conditioner at the north pole!

You got everything figured out until it happens to you, then it's 20/20 hindsight looking at where you should have filled the obvious holes you didn't see then!

Nice try, Slick!

Your spirit name is Evader, your destiny is captured.

Originally Posted by mgtower

All that is crafty fine and dandy, a real cat and mouse run around. The one thing you're not considering is a women scorn or perceived to be scorn, will move outside the confines of any law that disables them, then one day you show up floating in a canal and she walks away with everything with the help of these same lawyers you placed your trust in.

You can't win the game no matter how well you play your hand, they always have an ace up their sleeve because that's how they play.

Peddling marriage around here is kin to selling an air conditioner at the north pole!

You got everything figured out until it happens to you, then it's 20/20 hindsight looking at where you should have filled the obvious holes you didn't see then!

Nice try, Slick!

Your spirit name is Evader, your destiny is captured.

Of course that you are right about that but that's extremely unlikely (it's hard to judge a woman but it's very easy to judge is she that crazy.) the odds are extremely low as she can end up in jail and whatnot and even if she were to make it she gets nothing still even if I'm dead.

The risk that she will do something illegal has existed since the dawn of man under that logic no one should have kids or anything what if she does something illegal to me.

The chances for that are so small it's not ever funny even in the west (it does happen but it's very rare) I have much bigger odds to die in a car crash or an airplane accident than something like this.

My point is besides all the other benefits of being in Bali I have reduced the risk of marriage to almost non-existent and she needs to poison me or something (go the illegal route but that can happen with an enemy etc...) and she still gets nothing (in my will everything goes to my mom)

Does this make it a 100% of course not but its 99.99% (if there was an investment that was 99% sure everyone would jump at it) and as far as risk goes that is the best it gets and it's much better than the risk that's In the west (only crazy people get married in the west with the type of woman and the laws)

And so we are clear I prefer living here as opposed to Canada anyway (even if I was single) the marriage and my kids are just the cherry on the top.

One more thing I might have moved due to women and the laws (my initial reason for moving) but it's not the reason I stayed I have been here for 10 years but I got married 2 years and 4 months after moving (that's quite a while and its difficult to achieve if you hate the place and you only moved due to women and the laws)

I'm not saying I'm right or that this is the right thing to do I'm just saying what worked for me.

First off let me say I don’t believe a single word of your tale. However I do enjoy a good debate so let’s continue as though you are sincere.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Let me give you a bit of background about me so you know why I say she can't divorce or rape me...

I'm originally from New Zealand but when I was 20 after finishing my two-years IT security vocational school I moved to Canada. (got a crazy good offer so I moved)

So I made my money there and my properties crypto investments etc...

1. I'm in Bali on a New Zealand passport she has no clue I have a Canadian one as well and no clue I have ever been in Canada. (and that my properties are there not in new Zealand)

So let's say she decided to try something and goes to New Zealand I don't really care I have nothing there and I will find out about it. (which will give me a chance to react)

So she needs to somehow figure out where I have all this. that is her first problem.

2. All my properties are in an LLC and my lawyers say this further complicates things for her.

3. The marriage is recognized but not the divorce so she needs to first ratify the marriage (while being married) and I need to agree to that as she needs my corporation for that. (there are a lot of legalities for example if I would want to take her with me to live in Canada) and then if we get divorced I'm in trouble but if she divorces me in Indonesia before going to Canada to ratify the marriage (which is very difficult without my corporation) she is out of luck. (this is what I was told I'm not a legal expert)

4 Furthermore due to this being an international issue (just as you said it takes a lot of time which was confirmed by my lawyers as well) I can sell them and get crypto instead and crypto no one can touch 50% of zero is zero.

5. She needs to get a idk how good of a lawyer to accomplish this if it's at all possible and the cost will be bigger than what she is going to get.

I wish her good luck (if we ever get to that point) and if she actually manages to pull it off she deserves every penny.

So as I said no divorce rape.

Now on to the female nature part you misunderstood my point the issue is not with their nature is that they are allowed to express that nature with no consequences.

I will give you an analogy to make my point

You can be a scorpion and if you sting me I will die but if I cut off your tail you are powerless.

The same goes with female nature if she can't hurt me and she loses a lot more if I leave (as I can much more easily replace her than she can replace me)

So there are huge consequences if she does cheat or act like a child or whatever her nature is and this is the reason why she won't.

This is how it has worked from the beginning of time (you cheat you get stoned in the village square so let's see will you cheat) it's only in modern times where women in the west can do whatever they like.

Just so we are clear I love her but more importantly I respect her and I don't think that it will ever come to that the above was just an example of a worst-case scenario situation. (where she can do absolutely nothing to me)

Aw man, this makes such sad reading.

So let me get this straight:

You’ve set up this hugely elaborate system just to get yourself a wife and family?

And you come here recommending it as a viable option?

Just so we’re clear, I have dual nationality (Ireland & U.K) and could possibly set up something similar, but the question isn’t one of can/can’t, the question is one of why would I bother.

You still seem enamoured with the idea that the main reason we have turned our backs on relationshits is because of legal/societal changes that make such relationshits financially unviable.

Not so, although it is part of the equation.

These legal and societal changes, as you have hinted at yourself only serve to show us the true nature of woman.

A question:

Where are your motivations coming from? Could it be that the indoctrination that you have been exposed to has been so completely effective that you don’t even bother to question it?

Jumping through legal hoops to obtain your goal of marriage and offspring is just another in the series of shit tests that women put us guys through in the belief that what they have to offer is worth all the hassle.

It isn’t. Until you realise this basic fact you’re just another sheep in the herd.

OP's Post #27 approved and now visible.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

First off let me say I don’t believe a single word of your tale. However I do enjoy a good debate so let’s continue as though you are sincere.



Aw man, this makes such sad reading.

So let me get this straight:

You’ve set up this hugely elaborate system just to get yourself a wife and family?

And you come here recommending it as a viable option?

Just so we’re clear, I have dual nationality (Ireland & U.K) and could possibly set up something similar, but the question isn’t one of can/can’t, the question is one of why would I bother.

You still seem enamoured with the idea that the main reason we have turned our backs on relationshits is because of legal/societal changes that make such relationshits financially unviable.

Not so, although it is part of the equation.

These legal and societal changes, as you have hinted at yourself only serve to show us the true nature of woman.

A question:

Where are your motivations coming from? Could it be that the indoctrination that you have been exposed to has been so completely effective that you don’t even bother to question it?

Jumping through legal hoops to obtain your goal of marriage and offspring is just another in the series of shit tests that women put us guys through in the belief that what they have to offer is worth all the hassle.

It isn’t. Until you realise this basic fact you’re just another sheep in the herd.

First, every word I have said it's true do you believe it or not is up to you...

As you said yourself you can do the same is not that hard...

As for where I'm coming from is very simple...

1. I really like the idea of a Traditional marriage (1950 type) not the shitshow that is in today's day and age and it was the only way I could get it (without almost any of the risks)
2. I like Bali over Canada any day of the week (and would prefer to live here even if I was single) I have been here for 10 years but got married after 2 years and 4 months (that's a long time to stay in place for a wife and kids if you hate it)

As for MGTOW, this is how this was portrayed to be by friends I was told that MGTOW exists as a response to society and feminism and the unfair treatment of men in society (false accusations, divorce rate, alfa fucks beta bucks, etc...)

I was also introduced to Joker (better bachelor youtube channel and watched his content this is recent I used to listen to Tom Leykis back in the day and he says something very similar) he says there are good women out there but there are extremely rare like looking for a specific needle in a needle stack and that the risk of things going wrong and she taking you trough the ringer is too great so it's better to just stay single.

He also talks about female nature etc...

Just to say I agree with all of that no issue there the arguments are sound and logical supported by stats as well as my personal experience in the west (I would not have done what I did if I did not think this is the case)

So I said I can control her female nature by having the ability to say bye whenever I want (therefore she knows she can't do whatever she wants there are consequences to that and I can replace her a lot more easily than she can replace me) and she can't divorce rape me what is the downside? (worst-case scenario I leave she gets nothing I either stay single or find someone else)

I hope you can see where I'm coming from and if I misunderstood something about MGTOW then that's different (my definition above is based on Jokers channel and what my friends have told me)

Couple of queries SilverN:

What nationality do your kids have, and

You've left everything in your will to your mom? Nothing to your kids?

Originally Posted by Donk

Couple of queries SilverN:

What nationality do your kids have, and

You've left everything in your will to your mom? Nothing to your kids?

Nothing as when I did the will I did not have them (I did not want my wife to get everything in case something happened to me)

I have not bothered to update it as trust my mother without question she was married to my dad for 38 years (before he passed away) and he was the only man in her life.

And she has done so many sacrifices over the years for me and my dad.

My mom loves my kids to death (especially me being an only child so no other grandkids) so let's say something happens to me then my assets will go to my mom and then when she passes away to my kids.

Maybe I should change it It just does not seem like a priority for me so I have not bothered.

As for nationality, they have both (Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship if you are over 18 but will worry about that in due time it has 11 years till then) and we try to teach them right so we have taken what's good from both western culture and Asian culture (my wife is a Buddhist her mom is from Indonesia and her dad is from Singapore)

Here's an exercise that I try and get people to do when they question not just MGTOW but are confused in general.

Just imagine for a moment a group of women who want little, if anything to do with men. Think of these women as being cynical about society and what it spells for women. Imagine they are all tired and just had enough. They aren't wanting to fight though, no protests, nothing of that nature.

They just want to live their lives in peace.

Make more sense now?

1 - What on earth makes this OP think that a foreign wife cant sue his ass and take his stuff back in his home country? It's just a matter of finding a lawyer, and there's plenty of those.

2 - Brilliant. You are now father to 5 gorgeous half-Balinese kids. Congratulations. Now what?

3 - Bali is part of Indonesia. People forget that, and forget that moving to Bali means Islamic law.

4 - Japan has some rather nasty "gotcha" laws for western foreigners who are dumb enough to become husbands there. Can't leave the country if there's a marital dispute. I bet every single other country where western men dream of finding a wife has similar laws, because men everywhere don't like the idea of foreigners taking their women.

5 - They're still women. They're still on the same timetable: six months of honeymoon, a kid or two, then once the kids are off the tit and more or less launched they start looking for new dick. Back in the day, the kids stayed with the father. Not true now.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'm in Bali on a New Zealand passport she has no clue I have a Canadian one as well and no clue I have ever been in Canada. (and that my properties are there not in new Zealand)

OP has no way of knowing this.

MGTOW is hard for guys to understand because theyre fed the misconstrued definition of the term, the waterdowned Yootoob version about arguing with feminists and being mad about ABC laws etc... They think its a bunch of PUAs and Incels (sorry to use such terms which are themselves also deluded and not mgtow).

The real MGTOW was founded in simply observing the Biological Imperatives of humans. Beyond the obvious anatomical differences between males and females, there are even more consequential Psychological differences. Most men cant, wont and dont want to know, how women are wired mentally. They dont want to know about how female psychology was honed during neolithic times, how women's character is structured for ruthless survival at all costs. Men just want to play house ...

These traits in women ensured the survival of our species but in the modern setting, these traits are hell incarnate. Like women's ability to do unconscionable deeds with zero remorse. Our technology and standard of living has outpaced our psychology and reasoning so terrifically that the same traits that used to help the species, now make life miserable when in a relationship.

Anyway, men like to assign the same traits they themselves have towards women (honor, loyalty, unconditional love, sacrifice, duty, lust, intellectualism, pride in accomplishment) ... men like to think that their girlfriend or wife 'feel' the same way towards them .... WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY NOT THE CASE. She will jump ship, she will steal, she will cheat, she wont put out unless ABC demands are met... And she will do all of it without an iota of remorse, mercy or regret. Sometimes they do it just because theyre bored. She doesnt care about OBJECTIVE thought, she FEELS everything. She will sabotage everything. If it happens to Jonny Depp and Brad Pitt, you think it wont happen to you? Its always a time bomb until she wrecks YOUR emotions.

It was a sad realization facing the truth about them. Like most men in their twenties I kept believing that Id find one and "fall in love" .. but they were never in love and when it ended, I was the injured one everytime. I was injured just from being left alone ... they hurt men just by their indifference to them, and they dont acknowledge that either... You spend about 10 years feeling this way, being treated this way, until it finally sinks in that the quiet, the solitude is actually BETTER! Its better to be AWAY from them, to Go Your Own Way, away from women entirely.

GHOST, MAN OUT, DRESS DOWN, HIDE WEALTH, PURSUE SELF need a woman like I need a rock in my shoe.

Im reminded of the Stinging Nettle analogy from Stardusk. How men just keep chasing after the nawalt delusion regardless of how theyre bleeding from every limb.. still chasing the mirage... dumbasses. You can either love women or understand women, not both, because once you understand them, there is nothing left to love but a lie.

Without all the psychology, the laws, and human desires, I only know one thing, I'm stable, secure, optimistic, and motivated when I'm single, I never would have realized this had I not took time out from the entire cycle of dating and seeking a solid relationship. I gave myself time extensions on my initial decision to break from the scene because I was having one success after another that otherwise would have been spent trying to tame the untamable and wild.

It took about 5 years of being solitary for me to clear my thoughts and make my decision a permanent addition to my life, to my my surprise, I started viewing women and relationships in the light of day and on their own merit, I discovered all I needed to know about the gender paradigm and how obtuse it was to logic and order, I discovered a woman wasn't my destiny but rather a hinderance to any personal happiness, stability, or dependable order, instead the exact opposite, they are stumbling a block, snare, and mutineer to any kind of worthwhile destiny.

Until you've lived life without them, you'll never truly know what life is like without them. You're just a bee keeper that has to wear a suit, and you say you have honeybees, but without the suit, you'll soon realize quickly they're killer bees!

Life is much better not suited up and far far away from the bees and being a bee keeper!

Remember this one thing, you cannot do what we do, but at any moment we can and won't do what you're doing, all that exhausting work taming a killer bee!

Even with the added security of Islamic law helping you tame the bees, the fact that you need those laws should be eye opener enough!

Women here have their freedom and so do we, they're just not compatible, one robs and steals from the other in the name of liberty and liberation. Female nature has been allowed to blossom with the only antidote being MGTOW, we cannot un-see what we have seen, nor can any social construct cover it with burqas and make it go away.

Originally Posted by Kryptic

Here's an exercise that I try and get people to do when they question not just MGTOW but are confused in general.

Just imagine for a moment a group of women who want little, if anything to do with men. Think of these women as being cynical about society and what it spells for women. Imagine they are all tired and just had enough. They aren't wanting to fight though, no protests, nothing of that nature.

They just want to live their lives in peace.

Make more sense now?

Then they should say that (like what you did now) not lime my friends I want a family and kids sure but look at this guy who is miserable because she took him through the ringer or because he is stuck and can't leave or laws this law that etc...

Originally Posted by Mr Wombat

OP has no way of knowing this.

Unless she can read my mind she has no way of knowing that I have a Canadian passport as well and that my properties are in Canada.

Originally Posted by Mr Wombat

1 - What on earth makes this OP think that a foreign wife cant sue his ass and take his stuff back in his home country? It's just a matter of finding a lawyer, and there's plenty of those.

2 - Brilliant. You are now father to 5 gorgeous half-Balinese kids. Congratulations. Now what?

3 - Bali is part of Indonesia. People forget that, and forget that moving to Bali means Islamic law.

4 - Japan has some rather nasty "gotcha" laws for western foreigners who are dumb enough to become husbands there. Can't leave the country if there's a marital dispute. I bet every single other country where western men dream of finding a wife has similar laws, because men everywhere don't like the idea of foreigners taking their women.

5 - They're still women. They're still on the same timetable: six months of honeymoon, a kid or two, then once the kids are off the tit and more or less launched they start looking for new dick. Back in the day, the kids stayed with the father. Not true now.

1. Read my previous post where I explain why she can't and if you can belive whatever you want I'm just saying what the lawyers told me (and i'm sorry if I take the oppinion of legal profesionals over yours)

2. I love my kids they are one of the best things that has happend to me (however you did make me laugh what now lol you raise them right)

3. No issues with the laws bali is hindu not Muslin (Indonesia is a muslim countrly but the population of bali is not)

Furthermore Bali is not an issue and if you dont like it thats fine(there are many other places you can go to achive the same Belize for example)

4. No such laws here and no issues have been livng here for a decade.

5. It does not matter what her nature is or whatever if she does that I ust leave she gets jack shit.

And if this is the case and nature and all that their nature is the same since the beging on time than why in 1950 children out of wedlock 5% devorce rate in the single digits...

Under that logic it should have allways been like it is now why its only like this in the last like 70 years.

Because their nature is left uncheked if you can control it its all fine

ohh and everyone is avoiding that question and noone seem to be able to answer it and I will ask it again their nature has been the same since the beging of time then why in the 1950 the devorce rate was so low and children out of wedlock etc...