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  1. #1
    Junior Member Stuart-'s Avatar
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    Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    Here's what I wrote in my introduction thread:

    I'm here to talk about the philosophy of MGTOW. I don't like to talk about myself, but I should mention somethings to clarify my intentions.

    I haven't spoken much about these issues, except recently in similar forums to this. I do not associate, in any other way than oppositionally, with anyone online or offline with a personal vendetta against MGTOW, nor online with anyone with an appreciation of feminism. Offline, I know people with an appreciation with feminism, but I avoid speaking about the issue with them. Personally, I find feminism utterly absurd, as I do many other ideologies. I'm sympathetic to men being hurt by women using the law against them, and know a few who've dealt with such issue. If I have few experiences related to these things to tell, it's partly simply because I've had few experiences in general worth sharing, having had a uneventful and often largely isolated life.

    With that said, I hope I clarified that I don't have a social agenda, and, in general, am not here on behalf of others. Neither, do I have a vendetta for or against men or women, in general. As for my personal views, I can't say I'm impressed by the MGTOW philosophy, nor do I have high expectations that I ever will be. I simply remain open minded.

    That the law is clearly and overly against men is obvious to me. And that women, on average, have a certain nature, that is not what some common myths would have them to be, is also obvious to me. Just as it's obvious that so many other types of people, through sex, nationality, race, and wide variety of others descriptors are not what myths would have them to be. What's not obvious is how a man would best respond as he begins to have more accurate understanding of reality.

    My goal here is to give respect at all times with no exceptions whatsoever, and not expect respect from anyone. But, keep in mind, while I would never give a direct opinion of anyone personally, if my perception or interpretation of reality differs from one, I will say as much, with no apologies. For example, If I say well watered grass is green and someone says its not, I'll tell them they're wrong, and explain. But, I won't suggest that they must be either have poor sight or be lacking intelligence to come to that conclusion, or be lying about their beliefs, even though understandably I couldn't help but believe those to be the only possible explanations.
    I'm not going to start this with a substantial argument, rather see if one can start with the help of others. One may ask why I don't simply say what I have on my mind. The problem is that I find many, if not most, of the common views held by people to be inaccurate. If I find something a MGHOW says to be inaccurate it's not necessarily particularly a criticism of MGTOW, but just of his ideology in general. Basically, I don't see the blue pill spoken of here as an awakening from common misconceptions of reality, only an awakening of one relatively small aspect of it. I'd have to write a large essay largely unrelated to MGTOW, simply about my views of reality, and then expect others to read it, otherwise I'd simply be starting from an arbitrary point. So as not to be arbitrary I'd ask others to please tell me what they think of MGTOW, just as a way of starting a general conversation, for which no conclusion ever need be made, but which might still be worth the time of everyone involved.

    Thank you,

    Stuart

  2. #2
    Member SaltySpoon's Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    I'll admit this is a bit weird, but I'll throw you a bone because I love these kind of conversations. You do look like a well-spoken man, so do yourself a favour and write a proper introduction, it would be a shame if the cycle of the entitled newbie were to run its course yet again.

    First and foremost, MGTOW is what it is. Of course it is just a "partial awakening", because what MGTOW boils down to is the understanding of human behaviour, specifically the relations between the sexes. You can make it an "inner path" or a "philosophy of life" if you will, but the decisions that lead to that stem directly from the increment of awareness regarding your own drives and standards. And because of this, the scope of MGTOW is limited, proven by the fact that men make different choices while equipped with the same knowlegde, giving birth to the different branches (ghosts, bachelors...). MGTOW, the red pill, they all deal with a single square on a much bigger grid, so your first assessment is pretty much right, and an important point to make.

    Now, if you can't find any accurate opinion, you should put together everything you think is solid and build up from there. Myself, I will put forward that MGTOW is awareness, mainly self-awareness. 90% of the content revolves around male and female nature, manipulation and self-preservation, in an attempt to throw your subconscious off balance. You might have disowned women forever, or maybe you are spinning five girls at the same time, but in both cases you have the same end goal in mind: Not letting anybody take advantage of you, consciously or subconsciously. This is why not getting married is the unofficial boundary. It is not arbitrarily selected, it is the point where whatever your approach is, you know you will get screwed over legally, financially or otherwise.

    I would go in deeper, but I don't know where you want to get to. I might be beating a dead horse, but I am interested in hearing why MGTOW caught your attention, and work from there. Don't worry if it turns out to be ranty, long posts are not an uncommon sight and I personally love reading them as long as they are well articulated.

    Welcome to the forums, I hope we will get to read more from you!
    It's the nature of time that the old ways must give in
    it's the nature of time that the new ways come in sin,
    when the new meets the old it always ends the ancient ways
    and as history told the old ways go out in a blaze.

  3. #3
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    MGTOW is not so much a philosophy as a choice of lifestyle, and as such it is embraced by many different men of many different philosophical views. I'm sure you can find all sorts of "inaccuracies" to pick apart, within the different articles and statements and remarks posted here.

    Have you read the articles in our MGTOW 101 section? If you want to learn more about MGTOW, and about our shared values and perspectives, that would be a good place to start. Why don't you do so, and get back to us here in this thread about what you've found out?
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  4. #4
    Administrator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    Stuart-, every new member is required to provide a valid Intro. I know you told BeijaFlor (a Moderator) earlier today that you would "put some thought into [his] suggestions" that you provide one, but a valid Intro is actually a requirement, not an option, and I want to make sure you do understand that.

    Edit: I didn't realize this thread was in Opposing Views where an Intro is not required.
    Last edited by Unboxxed; February 22, 2016 at 10:10 PM.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    I'll take the time to write a new introduction, and read the articles suggested before making anymore posts after this. I'll write is as a symbol of good faith, because I don't expect to pass the standard. I just hope that afterwords I can continue posting in this subforum. Either way, I'm a guest and will act like one, leaving when asked without argument and not returning unless invited.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    Evasive intro, and already posting snark. A classic "I have something important to say, but I'm not actually going to say it" post.

    I don't see the blue [sic] pill spoken of here as an awakening from common misconceptions of reality, only an awakening of one relatively small aspect of it. I'd have to write a large essay largely unrelated to MGTOW,
    In other words: MGTOW isn't really his bag: he's here on another mission.

    One may ask why I don't simply say what I have on my mind.
    Indeed. It's because he has something to hide. As I pointed out in the intro thread, this guy is a "race realist". Watch this:

    Stuart- , answer this for me: a number of MGTOWs have criticized the alt-right by calling them "white vagina pussy-worshippers". Their response to arguments that the nonwhites are outbreeding the whites and that therefore a white man should marry up and impregnate themselves some pale bitches is "So what? Fukkit. Let the world burn. I ain't wearing that collar and chain again, especially not to save the very civilisation that wants to make me work for 40 years for kids I never get to see."

    What is your position in this argument? You want a discussion? Ok: start discussing. Go.

  7. #7
    Senior Member John Deer's Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    Hey! It's a full moon in a day!
    The only violence I have experienced has been at the hands of women.

    I live in Canada, So I'm living behind enemy behinds.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Stuart-'s Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeijaFlor View Post
    Have you read the articles in our MGTOW 101 section? If you want to learn more about MGTOW, and about our shared values and perspectives, that would be a good place to start. Why don't you do so, and get back to us here in this thread about what you've found out?
    I can't find that section, I'd be grateful if you posted a link. Thank you.

  9. #9
    Junior Member Stuart-'s Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wombat View Post
    Stuart- , answer this for me: a number of MGTOWs have criticized the alt-right by calling them "white vagina pussy-worshippers". Their response to arguments that the nonwhites are outbreeding the whites and that therefore a white man should marry up and impregnate themselves some pale bitches is "So what? Fukkit. Let the world burn. I ain't wearing that collar and chain again, especially not to save the very civilisation that wants to make me work for 40 years for kids I never get to see."

    What is your position in this argument? You want a discussion? Ok: start discussing. Go.
    Regarding race or not, doubtlessly some form of eugenics is in place, probably through more unconscious social/cultural forces than direct conscious planning. A society with docile stupid members is a society safe from internal threat to its cohesion. As for the issue of race, I read and thought much on it, but not enough, because I don't know how much of a factor it is. One can see the extremes clear enough from the various races that developed civilizations and those that didn't, and its natural to assume that while obviously those of the latter races can learn to live in civilizations they wouldn't be able to sustain them alone. The mixing of such races in a society would certainly be one way to diminish the over ability of that society to sustain itself.

    So while there's at least some logic to the alt-right's views of the importance of increasing the numbers of whites, at least for anyone who is white, it doesn't mean that I'm confident in it enough to push their idea, nor does it mean that even if I was, that I'd find it to be a priority. At the moment I give no priority to furthering any social agendas. I am interested in simply speaking about the implication of social changes, the actual affects, when any, of social activism, and individuals, and why they make the choices they make and choose the values and goals that they have. I don't know if the science of anthropology is anywhere close to having the detachment it claims to, but such detachment is more of what I prefer than the so-called social sciences, where even the guise of detachment is never really taken seriously for long.

    So if I understand you right, and please tell me if I don't, you don't seem to argue against their belief that more whites is better for society, you just argue with what they suggest you personally do and it seems you argue that you don't personally care what's best for society anyway, at least not the current society you live in.

  10. #10
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart- View Post
    I can't find that section, I'd be grateful if you posted a link. Thank you.
    http://www.goingyourownway.com/mgtow-mgtow-101/
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  11. #11
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    MGTOW isn't an ideology, or a philosophy or an organized movement asking a handout from a government. It is an awareness that is heightened and the re-discovering of the knowledge from the ancients. You use this knowledge to navigate many pitfalls that bring down many men that succumb to rigid ideology, dogma, or the boot of the state as one singular way to lead a life. It is about using this knowledge for your own survival. With this survival at hand you can then also focus on generating wealth, or your body, mind, spirit and heart.

    Philiosphy, religion, science, or any other belief system can compliment or even augment this self awareness. For example, my background in science provides a window for why men and women are so dimorphic in appearance. Dimorphism is a manifestation of different biological roles (eg male lions vs female lions). And another example, is my background with Christianity which emphaszes is on complimentary roles for men and women for the circle of life (birth and death) to continue and marriage is an important sacrament for this. In a twist of irony, the fields of sciences also use the concept of the circle of life to explain biological processes.

    In short, these processes that we see happening on a daily basis between men and women, between the individual and the state, between nations are not anomalies. What we are seeing is the truth of the underpinning of everything. We like to think we are advanced as human beings, but we are not that far different than other animals on this planet. We are merely the apex predator, but our arrogance, and decadence will lead to decay of civilization as we know it.

    MGTOW is a humbling experience as you check your ego at the door and start to re-examine your life and world view. Examining your life and asking the important questions is what is worth living for.

    Just my two drachmas.

  12. #12
    Junior Member Stuart-'s Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Nomad View Post
    MGTOW isn't an ideology, or a philosophy or an organized movement asking a handout from a government. It is an awareness that is heightened and the re-discovering of the knowledge from the ancients. You use this knowledge to navigate many pitfalls that bring down many men that succumb to rigid ideology, dogma, or the boot of the state as one singular way to lead a life. It is about using this knowledge for your own survival. With this survival at hand you can then also focus on generating wealth, or your body, mind, spirit and heart.
    Ok.

    MGTOW is a humbling experience as you check your ego at the door and start to re-examine your life and world view.
    How does one put aside one's ego like that?

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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart- View Post
    Ok.



    How does one put aside one's ego like that?
    You either want to learn or not.

    Either you start to question everything you have learned or not.

    You choose the red pill or the blue pill. However, you can choose to reject the red pill or the blue pill but in doing so you are conceding that you are content with your life as is. Which is also acceptable, but it is like not trying to climb that mountain to see what is on the other side.

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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart- View Post
    How does one put aside one's ego like that?
    I wouldn't say put aside. That is very hard to do.

    Just like Azure said, I would say check. For me it has become a habit to re-evaluate my own behaviour (since I became MGTOW) and constantly check: Am I doing this to get girls? Am I doing this to get social status (so that I can get girls)? I am just 25 and I do what I do quite often for such reasons. It's not that it's necessarily a bad thing if you do something to get girls, it's just that I see it in a different perspective now. Two years ago I would think the world of myself for getting attention/validation from girls, now I am just another mammal, wanting to reproduce.

    I try to control myself a bit more. Since I became MGTOW I became a little less self absorbed, focused on reproduction, social status, etc. and I became a bit more focused on freedom, understanding and peace of mind.

  15. #15
    Senior Member John Deer's Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    For Me, Mgtow is a space to talk freely to other men about the nature of reality outside of society's sick circus. Without this forum i'd be bumping into some ugly female dominance agendas with no clear vision of "Why". I was practically Mgtow before I found out about it but the birds eye view of feminism and female nature that Mgtow provided was the puzzle piece that led me to a fantasy free lifestyle.
    We are eagles that were taught to be ducks. We either wash our yams in the ocean or chew dirt expecting a healthy reward. Let a little Truth shine on your heart and for heaven's sake, take the pussy coloured glasses off and see the ripe possibilities freedom can teach you.
    Give up the high price of low living.
    Be this not the day you hide your light once more newb.
    The only violence I have experienced has been at the hands of women.

    I live in Canada, So I'm living behind enemy behinds.

  16. #16
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    If anyone tries to convert this guy to MGTOW, then this forum is not intelligent enough for me and I'll leave it on principal.

    We've a few too many slide into this forum sort of lately.

    I say this Stuart Smally guy is a transparent troll. His brazen walls of words saying nothing at all despite, me listing Jag's How To Intro verbatim including a link,

    This guy needs to be treated as a female and limited to the Opposing Views. In my humble opinion. This is another MGTOW111 person to me.

  17. #17
    Junior Member Stuart-'s Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Francis View Post
    This guy needs to be treated as a female and limited to the Opposing Views.
    I'm sorry to intrude, I'll stay in the Opposing Views forum.

  18. #18
    Junior Member Stuart-'s Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    On responsibility. - An often misused term, more than anything responsibility is a form of power. One may say that when one is responsible for something one is sovereign over it. A sovereign, lucid king is more responsible for the actions made by his subjects than they. He may impose responsibility on them, and afterwords blame them, but if nothing else, a king will internally blame himself first. It's he who allowed his subject to be in the position to make that undesired action in the first place. It's not of matter if if he could have done otherwise. That's a self-defeating question when left like that. One may ask if he could he have done otherwise, if he knew more, had more resources, etc. In other words he could have done otherwise if things were different, which is simply a conceptualization for the sake of future actions. His responsibility lies simply in the fact that he is the focal point, the most aware. A king given official powers, but altogether dim witted and naive, is not sovereign, nor is he responsible. The responsibility must be traced to those living, if any, who are involved and aware of the internal workings of the kingdom, and to those lucid men, perhaps long past, who set in motion events that could lead to a king such as him.

    That's responsibility in social terms, and perhaps all one's relationships even with himself are social. But, one thing is certain, from his own perspective, every man is the focal point of himself. he may be no more aware of the reality that surrounds him as others, but he's more aware of the reality that surrounds him as it applies to him. In fact that is the only thing any man can claim to have no equals in. He can't necessarily claim to know reality better than others, or even himself better than others; others may be able to predict his actions better than he can. But, he does know his relationship to reality better than others, being he's the only one conscious of reality from his perspective. This point of superiority of one man over others, is irrelevant to other men, who prefer to be able to be better to predict the actions of other men and circumstances themselves. Furthermore, to say he's sovereign over his perspective, one can also say he's sovereign from his perspective (not necessarily what he says out loud, or based on the mentality on which he conducts himself socially). So in that sense he takes responsibility for not only himself, but all the world.

    Keep in mind, all are sovereign over their perspective and know this, hence illogical questions such as the origin and fate of their consciousness before and beyond their life span. But, not all are sovereign from their perspective. This is where the discussion becomes more pragmatic.. This is a personal conversation one has with oneself, which has no bearing on others except in context's such as the one in which it's being spoken of here, which is an explanation of what one can do for himself, not something such as a meaningless declaration of what the author/speaker, personally, can or has done for himself. In this slow conversation with oneself, through months or years, one creates a mentality where upon reflection of all past events of immediate concern to him (as opposed to less immediate issues for which he may think objectively, doing his best not to think of himself at all) he asks himself what his own part was before reflecting on the parts of others. Not surprisingly, this mentality not only is self-empowering, but creates social power. But, unlike puppet rulers, who actively seek social power and enjoy giving orders, then emotionally assigning blame, he shuns power, because he knows that he must feel the full psychological effects of the struggles of all those following him.

    Now to stretch responsibility outwards we go back to the idea that responsibility is power, and power is most of all through awareness. So when we take the social events of man, we assign the most responsibility, not to the loudest members, or the most physically strong, or physically active, but to the most aware.

  19. #19
    Senior Member John Deer's Avatar
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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.


    So what?
    The only violence I have experienced has been at the hands of women.

    I live in Canada, So I'm living behind enemy behinds.

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    Re: Conversations about MGTOW philosophy.

    There may not be a better example of anti-male sentiment than that character.


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