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  1. #1

    Hi Gentlemen, old-time MGTOW here

    They say 3rd time's the charm, well after what happened with 'free-speech' Ruqqus, I'm now on, and also here.
    I'm 42+, and have been a MGTOW member for some time, since back when Reddit's /r/MGTOW/ had around 3000 members.
    Thank you for allowing me and other similar MGTOW refugees a space to talk here.
    I hope to occasionally contribute on topics that pique my interest (MGTOW Philosophy, Financial-Independence-Retire-Early).

  2. #2
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014

    Re: Hi Gentlemen, old-time MGTOW here

    Welcome John. We're one year apart- 78 here. Would love to hear more about FIRE. I'm financially independent after years in HighTech and Cryptocurrency but still mastering what that means .

    As far as MGTOWs having to bounce from one place to the next, you're in good hands. We've operated for 7 years without interruption. We're well-funded, stable leadership, and independently managed- meaning no 3rd party can tell us when we're to pack our bags.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)

    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).

  3. #3

    Re: Hi Gentlemen, old-time MGTOW here

    Hi Jagr, thanks for the welcome and congratulations on being Financially Independent!

    I find MGTOW and FIRE usually goes hand-in-glove - for the benefit of younger readers who may be wondering: Financial Independence usually means having enough varied sources of income (or enough savings) to be able to turn down unappealing work (ie. not have to work in a hated occupation just for the sake of earning money), and Retiring Early is just as it says - the ability to retire from working before the usual retirement age.

    Naturally being Financially-Independent comes first. This means controlling and paying back one's debt, controlling one's expenses in order to set aside regular savings, and creating a liquid emergency fund. There are rough rules of thumb (eg. saving rate is >50% of income, emergency fund should be ~3-months gross income), however given different people will have different circumstances, one will have to tailor to one's situation (income, expenses) accordingly.

    For example, if one has loans, one will be forced to work in order to pay back those loans, even if there is no work available or only unappealing work is available. A typical example being student loans, which are extremely difficult/cannot be discharged in bankruptcy (note: under current laws - there is a reform bill being proposed which may change this).

    A man who has no liabilities (no debts, no wife, no children), has a big emergency spending slush fund, who has his own permanent, fully-paid-off home and various sources of diversified income aside from his job (eg. rental, investment, side-business income) will find it very easy to refuse demands from bosses and others (termed 'F*** You' money, because if one doesn't like to do something, one has the ability to tell the other person: 'F*** You').

    Retiring Early is a matter of long-term planning - the goal being accumulating sufficient assets (generally money) to maintain a certain lifestyle (generally expenses), taking into account future old-age expenses (emergency medical procedures, etc). Most of this planning can be done via various medical/insurance/retirement/savings plans.

    Most single men can meet FIRE, solely on the proceeds of his labour and hard savings. It is usually the cost of chasing and dating the opposite sex, meeting their expectations, raising a family and being raked over coals in family court which will set a man back from being able to Retire Early.

    I'm also FI, and on the path to RE - currently have 2 diversified sources of income aside from a part-time job, (rental income, investment income). Maxed out my pension plan, and have fully-paid off properties which are currently rented out.
    I'm looking for a low cost-of-living country which has cheap medical - a low-cost retirement option to plan an Early Retirement by 50.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a financial planner, so please don't ask me to tailor a retirement plan. I've made a few costly mistakes in my life, but the biggest one which cost me nearly half my net worth, destroyed me emotionally and ended my career turned me MGTOW. Honestly, the best early retirement plan for any of you younger guys if you're reading this, is to just avoid getting into committed relationships with women and go your own way.

  4. #4

    Re: Hi Gentlemen, old-time MGTOW here

    I'll start from reverse because it flows better.

    3. Who you are:
    I started a blue-pilled simp, was played as a beta bucks, got royally screwed over, then went through PUA & TRP, and then embraced MGTOW.

    Born to tradcon parents - Father: a stern, no-nonsense, hard worker who worked 70+ hour weeks, a firm believer in higher authority, never taught me to defend myself instead asked me to appeal to the grown-ups. A firm believer in capital punishment and that discipline comes from a good whipping, I rarely saw him except to get disciplined. When he came home from work late at night, my mom would tell of all the things I did wrong that day and then the whipping would start. He simps hard for the women in his family. I used to dread him coming home. He worked as an expat, and got rotated to many places, dragging the family along with him.

    Mother: wanted to be a nun but ended up marrying Dad, a firm Feminist who thinks girls are sugar and spice and all things nice and can do no wrong, and even if they did wrong, the most they deserve was a scolding. Believes boys should behave like girls. No rough-housing, sit still like your sisters, etc. Sisters got away with everything, while the blame was usually placed on me. I was whipped a lot for things I didn't do which my sisters did but placed the blame on me. Now they're very old and I still don't have a good relationship with them, months go by without contact and they wonder why I'm so distant. I've resolved to never tell them why. They're very old and its enough that I have my own life and they're not in it.

    Schools changed a lot and I had temporary friends. As the perpetual new kid in class with no friends, I was bullied quite a bit and if I went to the teachers, as told by my parents to complain to the higher-ups, the teachers more often than not told my parents I was involved in fighting and that got me more whipping. I learnt to keep my mouth shut and to distrust authority figures. I learned to avoid fights by de-escalation and running. A torn or scuffed shirt from a fight would result in a severe whipping. From young, it was hammered into me that my place was a disposable male and that females were somehow considered special. Now I tend to speak up whenever I see a lack of fairness, as it reminds me of how unfair I used to have it, that's also what drove me into MRA.

    (1) Relationship History:
    Raised to sit still and read instead of rough-housing, I managed to do ok in school. Perpetual chess club member. My place was the nerdy geek who was good academically, pretty much useless in everything else. I tried to follow in my father's footsteps. Work hard. Didn't get any interaction or attention from girls until I landed a job at a well-paying multi-national, then the post-wall gold-diggers came, and of course I took the first girl that showed interest. I was blue-pilled to the gills and my hormones were out of control then. My role was pure simp, I paid for everything and in return sometimes I got a hand job.

    I had a plan which was to achieve a certain savings and earnings target which would allow me to comfortably raise a family and give them a better life than the one my Dad had provided me. That was my target then. I was so blue-pilled then. I stubbornly stuck with that target and it saved me initially. When gold-diggers tried to press me for marriage, and I declined because I wasn't earning enough. Every company I hopped to for higher pay, panned out the same way. I managed to attract the attention of a post-wall gold digger and foolishly get involved with them, they would press me for a ring and marriage, and I would decline because I wasn't there yet. I didn't learn until too late that office relationships are a huge risk and therefore a big no-no.

    I had good luck so far and hopped my way up to a job that payed really well. I was ready, or so I thought. Once again with the first post-wall office gold digger to show interest. She pressed for commitment, I agreed like a Captain-Save-A-Hoe. She was the worst mistake of my life. No sex until she got the ring. She demanded 3 months gross income for it. She wanted a big-ass do, amounting to nearly a year's gross earnings, and earnings were huge then. She demanded a big house, luxury cars, handbags, shoes, etc. I never refused her. The job paid extremely well, money was flowing in fast, and the bonuses were multi-year, and almost as fast as it came in, she was encouraging me to spend all of it. We brought each other to meet the parents. Mine got along with hers, her parents were similarly trad-con, they attended church every Sunday, prayed before meals, and believed their little girl was a Princess who deserved the best, I assured them I would provide the best. I had the credentials, the income, the good family background. I was a perfect catch. What a stupid fucking chump.

    (3) Awareness:
    I started becoming aware of certain observation from young, but didn't have the words, the language to describe it. I only felt that my place was to be disposable and that women were somehow cherished and to be treated special. That was from how my Dad treated all his female relatives and how he treated my Mom and and sisters.

    Apparently I ticked off enough boxes with her, she finally agreed to have sex. We did it and then exchanged numbers of previous partners. She claimed not to know her number, and then she said she stopped counting beyond 100. I had only a handful. I lied to her and said I also had so many I couldn't remember. Here she was stringing me along with no sex until she got what she wanted then I find out that she's been giving it for free to a hundred before me. And then she lost count. Should have been a red flag. She mentioned doing a lot of things which I had never experienced before. I had bought the ring, the house and expensive furnishings, the cars, fucking handbags. We had a date circled, parents were greeting parents, things were being paid for, everything was moving very fast. Damn I was a fool to not notice that she just wanted to use me.

    There were other red flags which I missed. One of her friends ended up in hospital with a severe UTI, for which I, the driver, had to drive her there. I asked for details and she spoke of her friends having UTIs multiple times like it was nothing new. Apparently her friends fuck around like rabbits which should have raised another alarm. She was exactly like her friends.

    Then she went on a trip with her friends and didn't get back to me for a week. No messages, no calls. During that week, I was left trying to figure out if she was even alive. She came back and claimed she was tired and refused to give details, saying it was between girls. I snooped around when I had the chance and found out she cheated and that the cheating was pre-planned and her friends were in on it. That weekend when she was back at her parents, I packed her things into boxes and drove up to the house and started dumping the boxes in front of the driveway. Her parents were shocked and I asked them to ask her, because she knows why. Then I called the planner to cancel and to try get my money back. I think I got barely a third of my money back and the rest were supposedly unrefundable, the notice period was too short or things had already been bought and paid for. I could have argued, but I had a lot on my plate after that so it was the least of my worries. She took it to HR and made some outrageous claims. It took a few months and I was given a few choices by my Bosses, which were no choices at all as they all eventually led to the same place. I took the cleanest route. The taint would stick with me and end my career just when I was at my peak. I would also find out later that she left me several parting gifts. One was a gift that keeps on giving with no cure.

    I broke mentally around that time. I think at that point, I nearly took to blowing my brains out. I took another route which was attempting to become the asshole that she and her friends keep going back for. That was what got me into PUA and TRP. I did get laid. It was easy. After a while I realised it was an empty shell of a life as it was all driven by my anger and depression. Eventually, I found the philosophy of MGTOW to be more fulfilling. I learned to let it go. Reddit's MGTOW group was a good hospice for men like me. I got better, and started living for myself.

    In the beginning, I figured life is short, I have money and some things to check off the bucket list. So I used P4P, and sugarbabies to fulfil those bucket lists. Now I'm done. I've relocated. Its been a rough journey, and I've been MGTOW for more than 7 years. I don't harbour any anger left, and if I do it is brief and goes away quickly. I'm focused on building towards my retirement and giving back to the community which helped me. The system is stacked against men. I want to help others to find their way. And I want to save men's lives.

    Additional questions:
    1) Do you have hopes for a girlfriend or wife, or of having an emotional relationship with a woman? NO. Definitely NO.
    2) If a woman wanted to have an emotional relationship with you, would you let it happen? NO. Definitely NO.

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