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  1. #21
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Okay, so shit I can't unsee now. Wife stayed home, and me and my sister took my Mom and her hostage (aka life partner) to tour independent living sites in FL. Mom has a place in FL so we used that as home-base. We toured some expensive facilities and all I see are women, and a few grinning men. The women all look old but w big biceps from all the jewelry. Just walked through these places and it's all women who were well taken care of, and the husbands are all dead. No doubt busting their butts to allow this to happen.

    These guys did good, and worked hard, and they're dead. Their wives now putter and become "artists". Seems more like a crime scene to me, the lives of men spent in toil so the wife can linger on in luxury. Happened with my Mom too, who has a live-in boyfriend a few months after my Dad died a humiliating death by throat cancer. Now she only wants the best, her contribution being added demands, stress and belittling judgement at my father. It was all I saw so I thought it was normal. Now I see this writ large at these facilities and the criminality of it makes my jaw drop. Happy wife, happy life . . . well, no. Her life remains happy and you're dead. I'm gobsmacked by this.

    Quick update - I have an appointment with an attorney my cousin used. He's a pharma exec, and he got the house and primary custody. I need this guy. I'm not using the divorce coach anymore, it's enough. Found a 2 bdrm apartment and also I think a buddy has a nice apt above his garage available so there are options. Planning this helps me see how deep I am, making me think I can't do this or am not allowed because marriage is priority?!? I don't know, I just feel gaslit and fooled. Fuck.

  2. #22
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Thanks to this site and the posters too.

  3. #23
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Should I move my posts to a new forum?

  4. #24
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in PA View Post
    Planning this helps me see how deep I am, making me think I can't do this or am not allowed because marriage is priority?!? I don't know, I just feel gaslit and fooled. Fuck.
    You can do this. You need to do this. You’re already doing this.

    I get the confusion though. The sleepless nights wondering. The endless questions that have no answer because for every answer there’s another question.

    Not allowed?

    Not allowed by whom? And for why?

    What do you mean by “marriage is priority”? That you take your vows seriously? Kudos to you for this, but did she demonstrate this same resolve?

    Kick her ass to the kerb and feel no remorse in this. She disrespected you at every turn and deserves no respect in return.

    Yeah you were gaslit and fooled as were many of us, not just by her but by society’s expectations of us. We survived as will you.

    Once bitten…

  5. #25
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in PA View Post
    Should I move my posts to a new forum?
    You can if you like. Nothing wrong with leaving your present problems here either. More people would likely see it in Lounge, but lots a guys read most everything sooner or later.

    I hope it works out for you Dave. Sounds like you got a start anyway.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

  6. #26
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in PA View Post
    Okay, so shit I can't unsee now. Wife stayed home, and me and my sister took my Mom and her hostage (aka life partner) to tour independent living sites in FL. Mom has a place in FL so we used that as home-base. We toured some expensive facilities and all I see are women, and a few grinning men. The women all look old but w big biceps from all the jewelry. Just walked through these places and it's all women who were well taken care of, and the husbands are all dead. No doubt busting their butts to allow this to happen.

    These guys did good, and worked hard, and they're dead. Their wives now putter and become "artists". Seems more like a crime scene to me, the lives of men spent in toil so the wife can linger on in luxury. Happened with my Mom too, who has a live-in boyfriend a few months after my Dad died a humiliating death by throat cancer. Now she only wants the best, her contribution being added demands, stress and belittling judgement at my father. It was all I saw so I thought it was normal. Now I see this writ large at these facilities and the criminality of it makes my jaw drop. Happy wife, happy life . . . well, no. Her life remains happy and you're dead. I'm gobsmacked by this.

    Quick update - I have an appointment with an attorney my cousin used. He's a pharma exec, and he got the house and primary custody. I need this guy. I'm not using the divorce coach anymore, it's enough. Found a 2 bdrm apartment and also I think a buddy has a nice apt above his garage available so there are options. Planning this helps me see how deep I am, making me think I can't do this or am not allowed because marriage is priority?!? I don't know, I just feel gaslit and fooled. Fuck.
    Make sure your buddy's pad over the garage has a fire escape, in case the Harley catches fire, the wife?

    Buy her a big black dildo for when the divorce is finalized, and tell her to go fuck herself.

    Bundle up, boys, it's gonna be a long cold endless winter.


  7. #27
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Scheduling consult now for this week.

  8. #28
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in PA View Post
    Okay, so shit I can't unsee now. Wife stayed home, and me and my sister took my Mom and her hostage (aka life partner) to tour independent living sites in FL. Mom has a place in FL so we used that as home-base. We toured some expensive facilities and all I see are women, and a few grinning men. The women all look old but w big biceps from all the jewelry. Just walked through these places and it's all women who were well taken care of, and the husbands are all dead. No doubt busting their butts to allow this to happen.

    These guys did good, and worked hard, and they're dead. Their wives now putter and become "artists". Seems more like a crime scene to me, the lives of men spent in toil so the wife can linger on in luxury. Happened with my Mom too, who has a live-in boyfriend a few months after my Dad died a humiliating death by throat cancer. Now she only wants the best, her contribution being added demands, stress and belittling judgement at my father. It was all I saw so I thought it was normal. Now I see this writ large at these facilities and the criminality of it makes my jaw drop. Happy wife, happy life . . . well, no. Her life remains happy and you're dead. I'm gobsmacked by this.
    The way you wrote it, it's almost as if I can see the scales falling from your eyes.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  9. #29
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    The fog will clear from your brain you will breath a sigh of relief as you look in the rear view mirror in a year or more knowing full well you did the right thing.

  10. #30
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Gents - I had the consult. Not too bad. My biggest ding will be half the gain on a vacation home I ended up owning with my sister when my Dad passed. Things inherited are not included as marital assets but the gains are? Sux. Hurts, after what I've been through.

    I need to drill down on this while keeping the bigger view. What would I pay to never feel this way again? My wheels are turning. Anyone else been through this? Thoughts on the issue or my approach to the issue are appreciated. Need this valuable perspective and unique clarity of the male mind, it seems. Thanks in advance.

  11. #31
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in PA View Post
    Gents - I had the consult. Not too bad. My biggest ding will be half the gain on a vacation home I ended up owning with my sister when my Dad passed. Things inherited are not included as marital assets but the gains are? Sux. Hurts, after what I've been through.

    I need to drill down on this while keeping the bigger view. What would I pay to never feel this way again? My wheels are turning. Anyone else been through this? Thoughts on the issue or my approach to the issue are appreciated. Need this valuable perspective and unique clarity of the male mind, it seems. Thanks in advance.
    You're removing a big fat cancerous tumor from your life, you're just gonna have to suffer the chemo and live with the scars, when it's over you'll heal and go back to living a worthwhile life, at least you addressed the tumor and didn't let it progress and further. The surgery you're getting has a 100% recovery rate, you'll have a tremendous weight lifted off you when it's all said, done, and over!
    Bundle up, boys, it's gonna be a long cold endless winter.


  12. #32
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Dave, your story sounds very familiar. A good lawyer is worth his weight in gold, go cheap and you will only pay later.

    The affairs.... I hope you learned something from them. Loyalty is a male trait. Adapting and manipulation are female traits.

    "You teach people how to treat you, by what you allow and what you stop." You allowed her to have affairs, you stayed with her, you showed her she could have affairs and you would not leave. You taught her you had low/no boundaries...

    "You can't reason with people that treat you like shit". Stop talking with her. You can be friendly but understand she is going to want to root you dry up the ring gear for every cent she can get. Don't give her ammunition...

    If you could turn back time, could you change history (the relationship with her)? or What did I do wrong? I think every man asks himself this at some point... The deck is stacked against every man that enters a relationship. Female nature or the knowledge of female nature (TRP) is not common knowledge. You were going to fail because you were not given the right information from the start. It's not your fault.... It's only your fault if you make the same mistake again...

    Good Luck Mate...

  13. #33
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    There is going to be a lot of dark days ahead, you will be following many a good man's footprints. We have made it as you can also. It is important to look after you, eat healthy, keep fit and exercise. Don't forget to smile, force yourself if you have to, it is very important.

  14. #34
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    So my scheduled second call with this divorce planner happened today and didn't cancel it until it was too late. I figured I'd try and get my money's worth and it was a clusterfuck. Nothing new, no data, no path forward. I said we're renting a 10 yard dumpster to clean out the house. We spent 35 minutes of my $150 hour rehashing why we needed to rent a dumpster and work together to clean the house out. It's like it wasn't valid unless I agreed with her recast of what I said, and that we're already doing that? Does this make sense? The only shame of it was I kept trying to get her to see that she and I were on the same page. It dawned on me that this is not the goal. The goal was for me to attribute to her the idea that we should clean the house out.

    I stated we're in separate bedrooms, and that the attorney said that this is a separation in PA, bec there's no formal decree of separation in PA. And that maybe a separation will give me what I want without the cost of a divorce. She then asked about a possible scenario where I'd want to get remarried. I said twice that there's no freakin way I'll ever get married again. She went silent. I admit to being a little bitter right now, but she withdrew into herself and looked a little dumbfounded, like it was some heresy.

    Right now I'm seeing women as another species entirely. Just very, very different. Logic and communication that work with just about everyone doesn't work with this species. I could learn the language, I guess, but what do I end up with? It also seems like the acceptable way is to pander to this. I'm also seeing women as very volatile, inconsiderate and likely to explode. I almost want to keep a healthy distance from them. WTF has happened to me that I get to this point?

    Lastly, I rode my bike into Phila from the burbs along a trail called the Schuylkill River trail to have dinner and get a ride back. The trail crosses some surface streets and I stopped at a stop sign. I took the stop to rest a second and adjust my toe clips. A strong, independent woman in a fancy MDX waved me through, but i didn't go. I'm trying to fix my clips and she waves more vigorously, like I must do as she commands. I shake my head no and she pulls up and says "Foock You" out the window. Stay classy, lady.

    This was also very revealing and frankly scares the crap out of me regarding women in political leadership roles. This is how things unwind, I guess. Was she having a bad day? Did my refusal to comply trigger her? Is it me or her? It's her. Definitely her because I see this everywhere. Refuse to comply and its hellfire. Women refuse to comply and its strength and independence.

    I'll own that I don't have a very positive attitude right now, but how do I get to a place like this? I easily and justifiably discount whatever the divorce planner says by 50% as BS and emotional venting. Is it fair to apply this to women in general? Now I see it everywhere. When did this happen? I gotta stop these walls too. Thanks for the medium to get this out.

  15. #35
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in PA View Post
    So my scheduled second call with this divorce planner happened today and didn't cancel it until it was too late. I figured I'd try and get my money's worth and it was a clusterfuck. Nothing new, no data, no path forward. I said we're renting a 10 yard dumpster to clean out the house. We spent 35 minutes of my $150 hour rehashing why we needed to rent a dumpster and work together to clean the house out. It's like it wasn't valid unless I agreed with her recast of what I said, and that we're already doing that? Does this make sense? The only shame of it was I kept trying to get her to see that she and I were on the same page. It dawned on me that this is not the goal. The goal was for me to attribute to her the idea that we should clean the house out.

    I stated we're in separate bedrooms, and that the attorney said that this is a separation in PA, bec there's no formal decree of separation in PA. And that maybe a separation will give me what I want without the cost of a divorce. She then asked about a possible scenario where I'd want to get remarried. I said twice that there's no freakin way I'll ever get married again. She went silent. I admit to being a little bitter right now, but she withdrew into herself and looked a little dumbfounded, like it was some heresy.

    Right now I'm seeing women as another species entirely. Just very, very different. Logic and communication that work with just about everyone doesn't work with this species. I could learn the language, I guess, but what do I end up with? It also seems like the acceptable way is to pander to this. I'm also seeing women as very volatile, inconsiderate and likely to explode. I almost want to keep a healthy distance from them. WTF has happened to me that I get to this point?

    Lastly, I rode my bike into Phila from the burbs along a trail called the Schuylkill River trail to have dinner and get a ride back. The trail crosses some surface streets and I stopped at a stop sign. I took the stop to rest a second and adjust my toe clips. A strong, independent woman in a fancy MDX waved me through, but i didn't go. I'm trying to fix my clips and she waves more vigorously, like I must do as she commands. I shake my head no and she pulls up and says "Foock You" out the window. Stay classy, lady.

    This was also very revealing and frankly scares the crap out of me regarding women in political leadership roles. This is how things unwind, I guess. Was she having a bad day? Did my refusal to comply trigger her? Is it me or her? It's her. Definitely her because I see this everywhere. Refuse to comply and its hellfire. Women refuse to comply and its strength and independence.

    I'll own that I don't have a very positive attitude right now, but how do I get to a place like this? I easily and justifiably discount whatever the divorce planner says by 50% as BS and emotional venting. Is it fair to apply this to women in general? Now I see it everywhere. When did this happen? I gotta stop these walls too. Thanks for the medium to get this out.
    Awakening to a hostile environment is always rude, worse is to forcibly make yourself sleep through it!

    Now that you're awake, its got your attention!
    Bundle up, boys, it's gonna be a long cold endless winter.


  16. #36
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in PA View Post
    but she withdrew into herself and looked a little dumbfounded, like it was some heresy.
    So much for her objectivity and professionalism. I think she and others like her get into this fake line of work to feed off of the issues presented. She gets to experience other people's drama for her enjoyment. You get to pay her. I didn't think it was about you.


    Right now I'm seeing women as another species entirely. Just very, very different. Logic and communication that work with just about everyone doesn't work with this species. I could learn the language, I guess, but what do I end up with? It also seems like the acceptable way is to pander to this. I'm also seeing women as very volatile, inconsiderate and likely to explode. I almost want to keep a healthy distance from them. WTF has happened to me that I get to this point?
    I chuckle with recognition, if that's okay? Perhaps you are asserting your own autonomy, breaking free from that thing where we men shaped ourselves to accommodate women, at the expense of ourselves, and did this cooperatively. Deeply sticking up for yourself, a new thing, eye-opening?


    This was also very revealing and frankly scares the crap out of me regarding women in political leadership roles.
    I think about this alot. I have a theory that some/much of what I am seeing are women who think filling the job is sufficient, but actually doing the job and doing it well, is still beyond their comprehension. And they don't know the difference and society won't call them out in that illuminating way for fear of being called sexist. So they act like women in their jobs with their female inabilities that have been subsidized by others all their lives. As if they're saying to themselves,"All right, what else is there to achieve? What next job can I do? I've got this job in the bag." But, they aren't doing the job unless they are visibly trying to excel at it. As if holding is doing. Equality to them is in holding the position, that's all. That's how I explain to myself people like Chicago's Mayor Lightfoot and Seattle's entire City Council.


    I'll own that I don't have a very positive attitude right now, but how do I get to a place like this? I easily and justifiably discount whatever the divorce planner says by 50% as BS and emotional venting. Is it fair to apply this to women in general? Now I see it everywhere. When did this happen? I gotta stop these walls too. Thanks for the medium to get this out.
    I'd say be prepared to assert yourself everywhere, moving forward. The pushback you get from women will be informative, as it has been for you thus far.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  17. #37
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Divorce planner and Lawyers: They are in business to make money. They want your money, and they will do whatever it takes to get more money from you. Remember that!!!

    With a good lawyer, hopefully he or she is busy and doesn't have to string you along charging you for stuff you don't need to make happen. Same as the wife's lawyer, can eat up heaps of money. A meeting with the wife to her lawyer a letter to your lawyer and a meeting with your lawyer then your answer in return, can cost thousands $ over something worth a couple hundred $. If you don't need it to live, isn't large (house) or isn't special to you (family heirloom) let her have it. The cost to fight to keep it can make no one have it as it goes to lawyer fees.

    Find out exactly what you need to do from a good lawyer to make this end. (Very important!!!). Then set a goal to make this separation happen. The more you fuck around with divorce planners etc the more you play with your emotions.

    Women think emotionally, they love drama, (romance novels are female porn). Logic normally doesn't play a large part in her thought process.

    Men think logically and struggle dealing with deep emotions when there is no logical thought process behind the emotions.

    Start thinking like a man, start thinking with logic, find out what must happen and make it happen. Keep your mind in your frame, not in her frame.

  18. #38
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    She asked me if I was going to divorce her. WTF? Is she monitoring social media like this? She's definitely seen me on a different footing and has been on her very best behavior lately. She has a lot to lose if I do divorce her. So do I. She's making this indentureship seem less agonizing right now; does she have the self-awareness to understand and adapt where this never happened before? One take-away I now have is to trust my gut and my gut says she's gonna fuck me (thru a lawyer, not horizontally) and that this recent dentente is a ruse. She's resigning as a teacher in January and that will halve her income.

    I gotta get this out here bec I have no other place to do this. My friends all don't want to hear this because it hits too close to home IMO. I have a two month window as of today to get this going and I am haunted by an earlier poster's comment about how I want the "back nine" of my life to go.

    Her sudden, recent cooperative attitude is a respite and I can be lulled into thinking it will now be this way forever. My question is why the fuck wasn't it this way for the last 31 years? If she is capable of this, where the fuck has it been? It's only happening now that she thinks I'm arranging a divorce?

    So it's not her anymore; it's me. Maybe it's always been me?!! And what can I change: her? NFW, at least not permanently or in a way I can trust going forward. I have always slid back into this sham marriage (after betrayals, affairs, financial mismanagement, endless backstabbing and deliberate destabilization) because I'm always told to think of others (and that men are selfish).

    If I did to her what she did to me, I'd be in prison right now (or am I already in prison - HFS)? This venue gets my thinking aligned again and provides clarity and connection. Thanks to everyone here who makes this happen.

  19. #39
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    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave in PA View Post
    She asked me if I was going to divorce her. WTF? Is she monitoring social media like this?
    She obviously found out somehow. My guess would be the Divorce Planner ratted you out, she doesn't sound very trustworthy.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

  20. #40

    Re: Dazed, Confused . . . Hopeful

    Don’t cave- her newfound “good attitude” is a ruse. Continue on your path. There are ZERO scenarios where staying with her will benefit you. Rip the band aid off. Fire the divorce planner and get your lawyer to file the papers. Don’t drag this out. Get it over with and get the healing started.


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