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  1. #1
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Stages of MGTOW - stages of grief

    It appears to me that the GYOW process can be compared to Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's five phases of grief: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance.

    Denial and Bargaining, in my book, are typical of the blue-pill majority. Most men deny there's a problem, accept Femspeak for 'truth,' defend the Cupcake/Cuntcake legions of feral-bitch girls, and march off willingly into the maw of the fem-beast. Or they try to bargain with the skanks and dance to their tune, like the Average Frustrated Chumps trying to make themselves over into PUAs la Mystery (or should that be Messtery by now?)

    Anger? Gawd-a'-mighty, don't we see anger all the time? And can we really blame someone who got blind-sided by his own Little Lovey-Dovey who goes vicious over some petty disappointment and turns the power of the Injustice System against him? He gets dragged off in cuffs by the Boys In Blue, while the kids (notice I'm not saying 'his kids,' even if they were conceived after he put the ring on Lovey-Dovey's finger and she put the ring in his nose) watch in their jammies, blinking back their tears, maybe with Mommy hugging them close with their faces buried in her shoulders so they can't see her spiteful smile. He gets turned out on the streets, and he's still responsible for the mortgage and the car payments and the credit-card bills. The System chews him up and spits him out, and Dovey laughs to see it, while 'Uncle Thugley' plays daddy to the kids and rides Dovey off into the sunset ... can you blame the victim, the poor bloke, for his anger? I can't!

    But at the same time, I hope he won't stew in that anger forever ...

    When the Anger burns out, often it leaves one in Depression. This, to me, is your typical "poor, poor victim of the System," or the firebrand who's simply too frustrated about trying to whip up support for the Cause. You don't 'have' to get to Depression by way of Anger, but many of us do.

    Just as you don't have to go through all the other stages of grief to reach Acceptance, or Going Your Own Way. I don't think it matters so much how you got here; what's important is that you got here.

    Acceptance, of course, in our terms, is the recognition that AWALT, or EWALT (Enough Women Are Like That) ... and, more importantly, that Society Is Like That. I think it includes the recognition that you have to save yourself - you can't depend on Society to help you, there's really no one to turn to, the best we can give you is a friendly place to vent and our own hopefully-helpful advice. It's up to each of us to re-structure our lives, so we can get on with living - day by day, unless and until you can start building on your own vision of your future.

    I'd like to advance the notion that, perhaps, one of the most valuable things we can do in this forum is to remind our new friends that there is a way out of the maze - and to raise whatever sign-posts we can to point to the Grand Egress.
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  2. #2
    Senior Member Grenade001's Avatar
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    Re: Stages of MGTOW - stages of grief

    Excellent post BeijaFlor! Very repworthy.

    I think your point touches on an issue that had for a long time had a glaring oversight by the 'sphere and MGTOW Forums in particular. I suppose the reason why is that controversy sells, "the best news is bad news" and people are more likely to comment on negative articles and that translates into page views (read dollars). It is too easy to get caught up in this negativity, the wrongs that have been done to us as a class and the individual losses borne by some on this board cannot be understated and a lot of justified anger is reasonable to expect. But it is important as you have noted to move on from it and to learn and grow from it. It is easier said than done however.

    When you are in that stage of anger it is easy to get hung up about all the "sunk costs" you have from the relationship. For the most part, the hurt isn't so much about the person, rather that you honoured the agreement and other party reneged and you are left with the burden with little chance of redress. At that point, people telling you to not worry about it and that there is another girl out there is not what you want to hear at that point, or ever. The problem with a lot of the 'sphere is that it focuses on this point, there is little material to go from this stage into creating and enjoying your new found freedom. I say CREATE, because like anything that has ever been in this world, it required a directed effort into its successful implementation. It is not a seamless transformation and it will not seem like much progress has been made on the surface for most of the time, but at that point you are building the foundations for a healthier and more productive life.

    There needs to be more stories on here about men have left a bad relationship, outlined the highs and the lows of the "foundation" process and then what life is like now and what you have to enjoy. A lot of men are caught up in relationships for whatever reason, if there are resources/testimonials available to show men how the illusion of partnered life isn't all it's cracked up to be and having your partner chew you out after a hard day at work is not how a healthy relationship is supposed to function.

    It is a hard road to go down in internalising all of this, but the benefits far outweigh the costs in this regard. Like what has been told in this forum many times - YOU control your future, it all rests on YOU. You take the prize and you take the punishment in realising your new found dream. It is a scary thought, but so is wishing that my partner was gone so I could have a moment's peace.
    Grenade001:Economist, in training (B. Economics/B. Laws, in progress)

    Avid cyclist, backpacker, traveler, motorist and beer/scotch connoisseur. Into comedy shows, road trips, overseas travel, experiencing different regions, cooking and reading (sociology, biographies and economics)

  3. #3
    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: Stages of MGTOW - stages of grief

    I quite like this analysis. A lot of the shaming language thrown at MGTOW assumes we're stuck in Anger or Depression. I think challenging that red herring argument with the notion that anger and depression are only two stops on the way to MGTOW acceptance, would be an effective counter.
    Who's Chairborne? Office worker & Army Reservist, into electronic music, drummer in a jam band, table-top RPGs, bicycling, X-country skiing, biathlon & marksmanship, TV-free for 15 years.

  4. #4

    Re: Stages of MGTOW - stages of grief

    "A lot of the shaming language thrown at MGTOW assumes we're stuck in Anger or Depression" How can they dispose of you or recycle you if they don't paint you as a defective unit of machinery right? Luckily I don't have to use that whole phase process having been made aware of what could happen before hand and opting out, but certainly I wont allow others to paint me in that light let alone begin believing it just for identifying with the ideals of MGTOW. Moving straight to acceptance after anger is healthier since bargaining with emotional terrorists is bad policy.

  5. #5
    Senior Member BeijaFlor's Avatar
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    Re: Stages of MGTOW - stages of grief

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbitnutz View Post
    "A lot of the shaming language thrown at MGTOW assumes we're stuck in Anger or Depression" How can they dispose of you or recycle you if they don't paint you as a defective unit of machinery right? Luckily I don't have to use that whole phase process having been made aware of what could happen before hand and opting out, but certainly I wont allow others to paint me in that light let alone begin believing it just for identifying with the ideals of MGTOW. Moving straight to acceptance after anger is healthier since bargaining with emotional terrorists is bad policy.
    Good points - on "paint you as a defective unit of machinery" and "bargaining with emotional terrorists."

    You're right to remind us that not all of us got here by way of a traumatic divorce, or other acts of the Family Injustice System. Like you, I never went through that mill; I saw what my colleagues were going through, and that was enough to convince me to opt out of the Get-Married-Get-Children system - and to put the energy and resources I'd have wasted on that game into activities that interested me, such as flying, and now, sailing.

    Many of us may be suffering from our own version of PTSD - Post-Twat Stress Disorder - but certainly not all of us. If we, and others to come, can learn from their mistakes ... so we don't make the same mistakes ... that's enough to make this forum worth our trouble.

    (Incidentally, on 'bargaining' -- Kubler-Ross's stages of grief are not prescriptive, nor a checklist; they're just 'typical.')
    "The Red Pill is the start of the journey, not the end." - Chairborne

    "Our most dangerous enemies are men who have no loyalty to men." - William Noy

    "I am not going to sacrifice my freedom and wealth for your ideals." - Primus Pilus

    "If you can't be happy on you're own, you can't be happy -- full stop." - Wilfred

    My introduction: I Was MGTOW When MGTOW Wasn't Cool...

    My blog: Beyond The Sunset

  6. #6
    Senior Member The Prisoner's Avatar
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    Re: Stages of MGTOW - stages of grief

    Excellent post BeijaFlor.

    I actually came here through way of the family court system. Now when I was going through this I had no clue what a MGTOW was or even GYOW. Now when I was going through the courts I was very focused on being able to see my kid. I was actually working two and sometimes three jobs just to be able to afford to live. Anytime I got head I was in court trying to get a judge to enforce the child visitation orders. However like always I was ignored, most of the time I was called in on false charges of not paying my child support. It was not until I had been doing this for about 10yrs that I realized that no matter what I did, what I said, what evidence I used, I would never get a fair hearing. Fair hearing hell, most of the times I was not even allowed to speak, I was forced to listen as the judge figured out ways to keep me from my kid. It was at this time that I figured out that my kid was being used as a pawn, as a means to hold me hostage and bleed me dry. They know that a man will do anything to not just protect, but to see his kid and spend time with the kid. Long before I went MGTOW I had seen where a kid is used against men, so I opted out of ever having kids again.

    I was still dumb enough to get married, thinking that I was protected by not having kids. At the time I was unaware of the dangers of marriage and once again I had to learn another lesson. However during the marriage, even in the good times, I was still having troubles with child support, depression, fear and anxiety. I was lucky in a way, I had friends that were combat vets and noticed that I was showing signs of PTSD and they took me to their support groups, showed me ways to alleviate the symptoms. Later on I got rid of the wife for cheating and got my child support paid off. It was around this time that I found out about MGTOW. For me MGTOW was great, not because it validated a lifestyle without women. It showed me that what I was feeling and going through were real, that I was not crazy or anything. Most of my depression was because I was seeing myself as a failure. I was often not able to see my kid, never able to pay enough in child support, always had a warrant for my arrest, nothing I could do was good enough. I was always told that I am not good enough or can never measure up. Even at a young age I was trying to do everything right, I stopped drinking, I was always working two jobs or more, I was in school. I felt like a failure because more that I did, the more it was pointed out to me that it was not enough.

    MGTOW opened my eyes to a lot of things that I was unaware of. Things like the DV laws, how women legally enslave me and countless other things. For me MGTOW was not a reaction from hate or depression or anything else. Going MGTOW was simply survival for me, in all aspects of my life. MGTOW pointed me in a different direction than I was going and showed me a path to freedom and happiness. Today I still have nightmares of being in the courts, however I am quickly reminded that I have paid for my freedom. I get a sense of relief knowing that I never have to go through those things again if I simply say no to women. A friend of mine that had seen some nasty combat in the Vietnam war showed me that he had a post it note on his bathroom mirror, the note simply read "Welcome to California". My friend told me that when he would have nightmares and wake from them, that he would forget where he was, so the note reminded him. Today my post it note reads "Welcome to freedom, you are no longer owned by a woman".

    Yes their are MGTOW's that are angry about the injustice of the family court or misadry itself. However their are some of us that are too burned out, we have lost everything too many times. It is not even anger or depression anymore, those feelings have no meaning to us. We feel that sense of relief because we took that turn and found an oasis. What MGTOW has taught me was that their are many people trying to promise me a better oasis, or shame me for enjoying my life. However as a MGTOW I now know better, I know that their is no better oasis for me than the one I build, I know that their is no shame in enjoying my life. The truth is that no one can take away my happiness unless I allow them to. Before I use to live like a prisoner, the only escape was in my mind. I was unable to enjoy life for real, anything I would try was taken from me. Now by becoming MGTOW I can actually enjoy life for real, and not just in my mind. I remember when I was in my 20's and I would be at a mall with friends, often times I was unable to afford to buy a coke or cup of coffee. Not too long ago I was with my friends at a mall, we are now a lot older, all middle aged old farts. I walked into a coffee shop similar to a starbucks and ordered a coffee and remembered that I use to be unable to do that. I then turned to my friends and asked them what they wanted, I was buying. The only reason I was able to even buy that cup of coffee is because I am no longer a slave.

    Yes feminist and women in general may claim that we are misogynist or just angry and butt hurt. They may say that we suffer from depression or stuck in an anger phase. This is a lot like telling a man that has been mauled by a bear that he is just angry because he refuses to try and pet a wild bear. The only difference is that the man who was mauled probably got mauled through a mistake he made. Most all men know that bears are dangerous and should be viewed at a distance. With women, we do not see them as a threat to our health and safety at first. They are like the bear that appears to be a fluffy little cub, very cute and very lovable. It is not until we are around it for some time that we find out that she is actually dangerous and able to do great harm to us. If you are mauled by a bear, you can at least get treatment if you survive the encounter. However when a woman mauls you, they do not give you treatment. Instead they go through your pockets and take everything that you have. Once that is done then they cut off the bad leg and arm and tell you to work some more, so they can steal it again. So let them make their claims on how butt hurt I am. Let them say that I am stuck in a phase of grief. I know that I am not stuck at all, I am parked. I am parked at my oasis with my fishing pole in the water enjoying life. I am enjoying my life that they failed to steal from me.
    Not a prisoner I'm a free man
    And my blood is my own now
    Don't care where the past was
    I know where I'm going ...OUT !!!!

  7. #7
    Member Afterburner's Avatar
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    Re: Stages of MGTOW - stages of grief

    I found a similar type of posting in TRP section on reddit, and it aligned completely with what I was going through.

    The whole MGTOW way is being front loaded now with new individuals, which is only going to increase exponentially with time. Meaning that the rate of people arriving to these types of thoughts is increasing, so the amount of people experiencing the first stages of anger and depression is also increasing. You'll also find that the new people tend to sprint out the gates, posting rants, questions, commenting, circlejerking, and all that jazz (something I know from doing it myself).

    Over time, once you blow off all that steam, you tend to read more and look for improvements, so the amount of posting you'd see is much lower per person compared to the initial phases.

    So the negative flack that the movement of guys who are going their own way is receiving is only because the guys who have reached those final stages and detached themselves don't feel the need to participate in the game on any level. It means to leave the squabble of people still "playing the game" to their own devices, and striking out on a new path and see what happens.

    I've found that to focus on oneself, as an example for others to follow, is a great way to live your life. To strive to align your life so that it's simple, leaving time for leisure and to ponder, is a great way to spend your day.

    But at the moment, I'm doing my best to focus on actions over words, so back to work!
    Afterburner
    Mid 20s male learning from the greats

  8. #8
    Member sergiovalmendea's Avatar
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    Re: Stages of MGTOW - stages of grief

    The naysayers of MGTOW will always be wrong. I'm MGTOW not from anger. Living their way doesn't work or make sense. Live for what works for me and makes me happy. Thats what MGTOW does for me. I did it in two stages. The Fuck This Shit stage and MGTOW Logic stage. Much happier now.

  9. #9
    Member cisskow's Avatar
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    Re: Stages of MGTOW - stages of grief

    This may help a few guys needing to hear it.
    This is a link to a angry guy on youtube, singing about a heartless woman
    This Artist is something else,, worth checking out all the bands stuff, interesting back story as well.

    https://youtu.be/_JC7Wsp_3qI?list=RDQ3b0-i1T8Hk

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: Stages of MGTOW - stages of grief

    There's a final stage after Acceptance: Integration. The grief-producing event just becomes part of your life, and you deal.


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