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  1. #1

    You don't have to compete with other men

    We're brought up our whole lives to be competitors, and in some situations, we do have to do that, for example, whatever business you work in has competition. However, we're schooled to compete with all men, but that's bullshit. You don't have to do that.

    Recently, I lost the dude who was my best friend in grade school. He died of cancer. I realized that I had lost a one-of-a-kind friend. He's someone I told everything to. We spent the night at each other's houses. We talked about girls. We developed the same taste in music. That one super close friend is gone forever.

    Today, it's the adult competitive crap that keeps men from developing deep friendships. You don't want to be seen as effeminate. If you're too close to another man, people will see you that way. If you believe the feminist lies that you'll be accepted just fine if you cry or show other tough emotions, they'll pounce on you and use that against you. They'll mock you with their "so fragile" talking point or "man up."

    But we have opted out of the dating and marriage scam, and we can opt out of the other bullshit. Each other man isn't your competitor or your enemy. You're allowed to have friends. Only another man can understand the unjust and bullshit rat race you endured via dating and marriage. So I flip off all the assholes who tell me to "man up" and compete. I'll compete where I need to, in business, but only there. And I'll have good friends.

  2. #2
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    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Sorry for your loss. It is a very hard thing to deal with.

    I tended to avoid pointless competition when I was a kid and still do so now as an adult. The concept of the "Alpha male" is just complete bullshit to me. The Alpha male has to work so hard to keep up his status and appearance and is a slave to the concept itself as well as people around him who lean on him in various ways.

    You will notice the Alpha male usually has a very Beta or even Omega male as a hanger on type friend. Alpha males don't really get on too well together in any meaningful way unless they are conspiring to cause havoc for others.

    Something I have slowly come to realize is that no matter what we all die in the end. It doesn't matter if we have accrued millions or nothing or are Alphas or Omegas or something else entirely. We all end up dead in the end and I doubt these ultra competitive Alpha types lay on their death beds thinking about how much they have dominated the little shit holes they operated in.

    And yes again. Society sends mixed signals to men. "Talk about your emotions!" but only if you aren't going to freak out and cry or are going to say something Non PC! Because if you do rest assured you will be labelled weak and toxic.

    Don't talk about your emotions and you will be labelled cold and aloof and toxic.

    Something I learned as a kid although terminology has changed.

    It's sad that so much of this competitive bullshit isn't even because of something the Alpha truly believes in. They are just desperately seeking affirmation and kudos from those around him. And of course to get laid.

    There's no deep meaning behind this competitive nature.

  3. #3
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Cement makes'a good'a loyal friends dat might not otherwise be.


    Tower's Book of Survival:

    Rule #401. First you eat the dogs, then you eat the dogfood.

  4. #4

    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    You are going to die whether you reproduce or not and the illusion people have of "continuing their legacy" is nothing more then one big coping mechanism for the fear of death we have as animals.

  5. #5
    Senior Member MGTOWFOREVER's Avatar
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    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Quote Originally Posted by RenaiZance View Post
    You are going to die whether you reproduce or not and the illusion people have of "continuing their legacy" is nothing more then one big coping mechanism for the fear of death we have as animals.
    Whenever people say they had kids for their legacy, I say to them "Name your great grand mother ". 99% cant do it. I then end their careers by saying "Back in those days, people had like 10 kids and yet nobody remembers her. What makes you so special ". They get pissed.

    Nobody cares deep down. Christopher Walken sais it best. Once you realize how quick the dead are forgotten then you'll stop caring about pleasing others.

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    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    Recently, I lost the dude who was my best friend in grade school. He died of cancer. I realized that I had lost a one-of-a-kind friend. He's someone I told everything to. We spent the night at each other's houses. We talked about girls. We developed the same taste in music. That one super close friend is gone forever.
    I am very sorry for your loss. May his soul rest in peace.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    Today, it's the adult competitive crap that keeps men from developing deep friendships. You don't want to be seen as effeminate. If you're too close to another man, people will see you that way. If you believe the feminist lies that you'll be accepted just fine if you cry or show other tough emotions, they'll pounce on you and use that against you. They'll mock you with their "so fragile" talking point or "man up."
    To quote actor Kevin Sorbo (of Hercules fame):

    THEY KNOW A SOCIETY OF STRONG MEN WOULD NEVER HAVE ALLOWED WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.
    THAT'S WHY THEY ATTACKED MASCULINITY FIRST.

  7. #7
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    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Quote Originally Posted by McDudeski McGee View Post
    Yeah. While immediate descendants share half of our genes, if we could create complete copies of ourselves like Agent Smith in The Matrix, the copies would still not be us.
    How similar are any of us to our parents let alone grandparents? How many of us even speak to our parents?! The other lie people come out with if you don't have kids is "You'll die alone!" Ask nurses, especially in old age care places. A lot of elderly people will wait till everyone leaves before passing away. The most common time for death is around 2am.

    Everyone dies alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by MGTOWFOREVER View Post
    Whenever people say they had kids for their legacy, I say to them "Name your great grand mother ". 99% cant do it. I then end their careers by saying "Back in those days, people had like 10 kids and yet nobody remembers her. What makes you so special ". They get pissed.

    Nobody cares deep down. Christopher Walken sais it best. Once you realize how quick the dead are forgotten then you'll stop caring about pleasing others.
    A lot of people wouldn't have a clue and also wouldn't have a clue about their family history. Background culture etc. It is also common for parents to outlive their kids so what then? You are back to square one.

    Death is a liberating thought but I don't necessarily mean it in the most morbid way. The idea that in the end we all die. No one will remember us or even if they do, what is left of our memory dies when those people do.

    I worked with a guy who had cancer way back. He had hundreds if not thousands of hours of sick leave and yet he kept working right till the end. One day they even tried to haul him over the coals for taking sick leave, he was all bandaged up from chemo and radiation therapy. I would have told them to fuck off right there.

    He took the shit instead of suing and died. What was the point? To make the boss happy?

  8. #8
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptic View Post
    How similar are any of us to our parents let alone grandparents? How many of us even speak to our parents?! The other lie people come out with if you don't have kids is "You'll die alone!" Ask nurses, especially in old age care places. A lot of elderly people will wait till everyone leaves before passing away. The most common time for death is around 2am.

    Everyone dies alone.



    A lot of people wouldn't have a clue and also wouldn't have a clue about their family history. Background culture etc. It is also common for parents to outlive their kids so what then? You are back to square one.

    Death is a liberating thought but I don't necessarily mean it in the most morbid way. The idea that in the end we all die. No one will remember us or even if they do, what is left of our memory dies when those people do.

    I worked with a guy who had cancer way back. He had hundreds if not thousands of hours of sick leave and yet he kept working right till the end. One day they even tried to haul him over the coals for taking sick leave, he was all bandaged up from chemo and radiation therapy. I would have told them to fuck off right there.

    He took the shit instead of suing and died. What was the point? To make the boss happy?
    You'll never hear them say "you'll live alone", because that's our primary goal! They're stuck using wet noodles to pry nails from 100 yo walnut! Manipulation is futile!

    Tower's Book of Survival:

    Rule #401. First you eat the dogs, then you eat the dogfood.

  9. #9

    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Yeah, men are wired to compete with other men, because the resources and status we accumulate by doing so are attractive to women. Very Darwinian.

    I don't agree with the materialist position a lot of you guys hold, but even if you take only a Darwinian perspective on life, you can still see it's not all about competition; evolution has also favored cooperation. Civilization wouldn't exist if men hadn't been able to cooperate. That goes all the way back to our hairy ancestors cooperating in hunter-gatherer tribes. In fact, cooperation appears to be what gave our species the evolutionary edge: our ability to team up and cooperate in taking down the large animals we need for our big brains and defeating rivals (Neanderthals, for instance). So, men are deeply wired to cooperate. I found a book called "Non Zero Sum" very illuminating on this. It appears to be a trajectory built into evolution.

  10. #10

    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell View Post
    Yeah, men are wired to compete with other men, because the resources and status we accumulate by doing so are attractive to women. Very Darwinian.

    I don't agree with the materialist position a lot of you guys hold, but even if you take only a Darwinian perspective on life, you can still see it's not all about competition; evolution has also favored cooperation. Civilization wouldn't exist if men hadn't been able to cooperate. That goes all the way back to our hairy ancestors cooperating in hunter-gatherer tribes. In fact, cooperation appears to be what gave our species the evolutionary edge: our ability to team up and cooperate in taking down the large animals we need for our big brains and defeating rivals (Neanderthals, for instance). So, men are deeply wired to cooperate. I found a book called "Non Zero Sum" very illuminating on this. It appears to be a trajectory built into evolution.
    That's a great point. While there was some competition amongst human tribes, there was way more cooperation. Think about it. Not every man could become the chief or the alpha #1 or whatever. Most of them if they tried would just get killed. So some dude who can't be #1 was better off cooperating. Maybe he was still good at hunting, so he could help the group bring down a big beast and gain some status, just not #1 status. Maybe he sucked at hunting but was great at building weapons like bows, arrow heads, etc., so he did that because he was best at it, and that helped the tribe. Maybe another guy was lousy at both those things, but was great at foraging for plant food. You get the picture. Humans are far from the fastest animals, far from the strongest, and have totally inferior eyesight and hearing and sense of smell compared to other animals. But humans are intelligent and increased their power by cooperating in groups.

  11. #11
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    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    We're brought up our whole lives to be competitors, and in some situations, we do have to do that, for example, whatever business you work in has competition. However, we're schooled to compete with all men, but that's bullshit. You don't have to do that.

    Recently, I lost the dude who was my best friend in grade school. He died of cancer. I realized that I had lost a one-of-a-kind friend. He's someone I told everything to. We spent the night at each other's houses. We talked about girls. We developed the same taste in music. That one super close friend is gone forever.

    Today, it's the adult competitive crap that keeps men from developing deep friendships. You don't want to be seen as effeminate. If you're too close to another man, people will see you that way. If you believe the feminist lies that you'll be accepted just fine if you cry or show other tough emotions, they'll pounce on you and use that against you. They'll mock you with their "so fragile" talking point or "man up."

    But we have opted out of the dating and marriage scam, and we can opt out of the other bullshit. Each other man isn't your competitor or your enemy. You're allowed to have friends. Only another man can understand the unjust and bullshit rat race you endured via dating and marriage. So I flip off all the assholes who tell me to "man up" and compete. I'll compete where I need to, in business, but only there. And I'll have good friends.
    My condolences for your loss.

    I have suffered a number of these in recent months and itís never easy. I take some solace in keeping them with me.

    When I think of them I remember the good times and the bad times and I try not to change things; pretending that things were better than they were. I want to remember them as they truly were. This is my way of honouring their memory faithfully.

    With regards male friendship I agree with you totally.

    Why do we have to be so competitive? As MGTOW just what is it weíre competing for? It isnít about wymminz, so what is it about?

    The only thing I can think of is ego: ďI have more worth than you so deal with it.Ē

    With friends, real friends, ego just doesnít enter in to it.

  12. #12

    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    I'm with you OP. I still have a close knit group of friends from grade school. We travel together, talk frequently, muse on life, celebrate our successes, commiserate on our failures, etc. We're still dudes, so we rag on each other, compete for fun at times (physically in sports/ outdoor stuff) and video games too, but we're bros for life.

    I wouldn't trade that for anything. Even my married bro still joins in. He's lucky enough to have a wife who understands the need for strong male bonds.

  13. #13

    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    That's a great point. While there was some competition amongst human tribes, there was way more cooperation. Think about it. Not every man could become the chief or the alpha #1 or whatever. Most of them if they tried would just get killed. So some dude who can't be #1 was better off cooperating. Maybe he was still good at hunting, so he could help the group bring down a big beast and gain some status, just not #1 status. Maybe he sucked at hunting but was great at building weapons like bows, arrow heads, etc., so he did that because he was best at it, and that helped the tribe. Maybe another guy was lousy at both those things, but was great at foraging for plant food. You get the picture. Humans are far from the fastest animals, far from the strongest, and have totally inferior eyesight and hearing and sense of smell compared to other animals. But humans are intelligent and increased their power by cooperating in groups.
    Yup, absolutely. And just to add to that, it even applies to the alpha #1 guys. They don't get there just by being big, tough, and violent (although that happens, sometimes). They get there by being socially skilled, effective leaders -- good CEOs, you might say. They greet the other monkeys; they give their "beta" supporters stuff. They make sure the tribe gets what it needs.

    In other words, they get to be #1 not just by competing -- by ramming heads -- but by cooperating. That's a big part of how they maintain their power. If you're just a selfish prick (if you don't cooperate, just force your will), it's just a matter of time before a few disgruntled tribe members form an alliance and take you out.

  14. #14

    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell View Post
    Yup, absolutely. And just to add to that, it even applies to the alpha #1 guys. They don't get there just by being big, tough, and violent (although that happens, sometimes). They get there by being socially skilled, effective leaders -- good CEOs, you might say. They greet the other monkeys; they give their "beta" supporters stuff. They make sure the tribe gets what it needs.

    In other words, they get to be #1 not just by competing -- by ramming heads -- but by cooperating. That's a big part of how they maintain their power. If you're just a selfish prick (if you don't cooperate, just force your will), it's just a matter of time before a few disgruntled tribe members form an alliance and take you out.
    Those are great points. Someone might become chief through brute force and intimidation, but he would only remain on top as long as he can maintain the fear of him and as long as he's the strongest. As you point out, as soon as someone capable of challenging him comes along, he'll be overthrown. If it's a chief who got there only partly by being strong, but by being great with people and giving a crap about people, then he would be a chief that the people trust and want to follow. Those are outstanding points.

    There is such a thing as competition among humans. But there's much, much more to human relations. We're a complex and very social species.

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    Re: You don't have to compete with other men

    Condolences Tigplaze, cancer is merciless.

    As men we are taught to compete hard for mediocre reward. Here are some related views from my little crowy brain, in no particular order:


    1. Only compete for rewards worth having.
    2. Don't bother competing with people who compete for competition's sake. Life is too short, there are better things to do.
    3. No amount of strength can save a man from a traitor's knife, only wisdom.
    4. Don't compete in rigged games.
      1. If you find yourself "losing" at something over and over despite trying your best and trying new things, ask your self if the problem is you, or the competition itself, whatever that may be.

    5. Competing and hard work aren't the same thing.
    6. Work hard only for yourself, not others.
      1. On a well chosen goal, hard work will always help. Competing might.


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