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  1. #1

    You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    (not letting me post the link)

    Slippery slope folks.

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    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.


  3. #3

    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Well that's hella gay. Unless they were actual accessories then that's bullshit.

    We shall see.

  4. #4

    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    From the piece:
    McDonald says the gun used in the shootings at Oxford High School was purchased by James Crumbley a week ago and given to the boy.


    There's the parental culpability, right there.

    Even so, this is going to make more men want to go out, get married, and have kids, isn't it?

  5. #5

    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    The father's not a murderer, but he is negligent. He bought a firearm and didn't take the standard safety measure of locking it up so that his dumb-ass kid couldn't get his hands on it.

  6. #6

    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    The father's not a murderer, but he is negligent. He bought a firearm and didn't take the standard safety measure of locking it up so that his dumb-ass kid couldn't get his hands on it.
    The problem is the rules are being bent.

    Involuntary Manslaughter:
    Homicide that is committed without the intent to kill, but with criminal recklessness or negligence; or a death that results during the commission of or flight from a misdemeanor or felony that is not encompassed by the felony-murder rule.

    The issue I have:
    He didn't commit the crime. His son did.
    Last edited by manaloneforever; December 3, 2021 at 7:57 PM.

  7. #7

    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by manaloneforever View Post
    The problem is the rules are being bent.

    Involuntary Manslaughter:
    Homicide that is committed without the intent to kill, but with criminal recklessness or negligence; or a death that results during the commission of or flight from a misdemeanor or felony that is not encompassed by the felony-murder rule.

    The issue:
    He didn't commit the crime. His son did.
    I think involuntary manslaughter is a reach. I would acquit him of that if I were a juror. But I do think he was negligent. He should have kept that firearm (and any others) locked up. I think it would be involuntary manslaughter if he had been shooting tin cans in his back yard like an idiot and then a stay bullet ended up killing someone. But he didn't do that. It was his son who shot the people. I'm not a lawyer, but there must be some kind of negligence charge possible. If so, that's the one that makes sense.

  8. #8

    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    I think involuntary manslaughter is a reach. I would acquit him of that if I were a juror. But I do think he was negligent. He should have kept that firearm (and any others) locked up. I think it would be involuntary manslaughter if he had been shooting tin cans in his back yard like an idiot and then a stay bullet ended up killing someone. But he didn't do that. It was his son who shot the people. I'm not a lawyer, but there must be some kind of negligence charge possible. If so, that's the one that makes sense.
    This makes much more sense and I agree with this.

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    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    They should arrest parents for teen drunk driving fatalities, they should also arrest parents for being stupid and having children!

    Guilt by association to a constitutionally protected device is a paradox to my logic, but she's the one playing paint anyone with anything that might stick (paint bomb prosecution) (Rittenhouse style).

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    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    The father's not a murderer, but he is negligent. He bought a firearm and didn't take the standard safety measure of locking it up so that his dumb-ass kid couldn't get his hands on it.
    Negligent?

    It doesn't read that way to me. It seems he (the father) bought the gun and gave it to his son. This is not negligence, this is intent.

  11. #11

    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Negligent?

    It doesn't read that way to me. It seems he (the father) bought the gun and gave it to his son. This is not negligence, this is intent.
    Hard to prove he intended to give the gun so the child can shoot up the school. Giving a gun to your son isn't illegal if he is 18. I am not defending him or them but protecting loopholes.

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    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by manaloneforever View Post
    Hard to prove he intended to give the gun so the child can shoot up the school. Giving a gun to your son isn't illegal if he is 18. I am not defending him or them but protecting loopholes.
    Good point well made. I stand corrected.

  13. #13

    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Negligent?

    It doesn't read that way to me. It seems he (the father) bought the gun and gave it to his son. This is not negligence, this is intent.
    I'll have to read up more on it. I had heard that the father bought the gun for himself and then the son took it without his permission. If that's not the case, if he gave it to the son as a gift, that complicates matters.

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    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    These days, you don't discipline your kid, you get in trouble. You do discipline your kid, he reports you, you get in trouble. You don't discipline your kid but he reports you and claims you did ​because he's a little asshole, you get in trouble.

    Kids = trouble. (Even I was able to figure that one out.)

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    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    I'll have to read up more on it. I had heard that the father bought the gun for himself and then the son took it without his permission. If that's not the case, if he gave it to the son as a gift, that complicates matters.
    The link Kru-Kut found says the gun was given to the kid. Bought a week before the shooting.

    The timing is sure fishy, and it looks like the authorities agree. Dad was up to something; you don't give somebody an expensive gun for no reason. I don't think we're getting the whole story.

    I became a gun owner at age five, though it was a few years before I could take it out by myself.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

  16. #16

    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by frog View Post
    The link Kru-Kut found says the gun was given to the kid. Bought a week before the shooting.

    The timing is sure fishy, and it looks like the authorities agree. Dad was up to something; you don't give somebody an expensive gun for no reason. I don't think we're getting the whole story.

    I became a gun owner at age five, though it was a few years before I could take it out by myself.
    Add in the school contacted the parents over issues with the kid mentioning harming others. The day he did the shooting the mother texted him "don't do it". The parents were to attend the school for a meeting about their son that day. When the shooting happened the father mentioned he had suspicions it was his son.

    The manslaughter charge is a strong stance and a good one.The parents will plead it out. You always get a slew of harsh charges so you will make a plea. Facing 10 in the pen or 2 on house arrest. Which would you choose?

    Parents were dumb as dog shit with how they handled their disturbed son. Has issues at school so let's buy him a gun.

  17. #17

    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by BedroomBully View Post
    The manslaughter charge is a strong stance and a good one.The parents will plead it out. You always get a slew of harsh charges so you will make a plea. Facing 10 in the pen or 2 on house arrest. Which would you choose?
    The issue is the parents did not directly commit the act of unintentional killing. As others like Mgtower have pointed out, drunk driving teens were supplied the cars by their parents. Should those parents be charged with involuntary manslaughter as well?

    The jurors will have to be convinced that the parents supplied him with the gun specifically for the express purpose of killing. If the mom's text of 'don't do it' was after realising from his teachers that the kid wanted to kill people, then they can be shown to have been trying to discourage their son from killing - that is important because it means they did not supply the item for the express intent and purpose of killing, they supplied it for other reasons.

    Are there other legitimate reasons to own and carry guns aside from killing people? I can imagine the anti-gun crowd will say 'no, guns have no other legitimate reasons other than to kill other people'. I'd have to disagree and can think of self-defense and protection as a legitimate reason, the same reason why some people carry tasers and other forms of self-defense equipment. Any equipment can be misused and used to kill, however proving beyond reasonable doubt that the intent such equipment was supplied was purely in order to be misused for killing will require a lot of inferred hypotheticals which makes it doubtful (ie. not beyond reasonable doubt).

    As manaloneforever pointed out, this is bending the rules and if this charge goes through successfully and the parents are found guilty, it would also set a dangerous precedent and open the floodgates for charges on parents for acts they did not condone nor do.

  18. #18

    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsmith79 View Post
    The issue is the parents did not directly commit the act of unintentional killing. As others like Mgtower have pointed out, drunk driving teens were supplied the cars by their parents. Should those parents be charged with involuntary manslaughter as well?

    The jurors will have to be convinced that the parents supplied him with the gun specifically for the express purpose of killing. If the mom's text of 'don't do it' was after realising from his teachers that the kid wanted to kill people, then they can be shown to have been trying to discourage their son from killing - that is important because it means they did not supply the item for the express intent and purpose of killing, they supplied it for other reasons.

    Are there other legitimate reasons to own and carry guns aside from killing people? I can imagine the anti-gun crowd will say 'no, guns have no other legitimate reasons other than to kill other people'. I'd have to disagree and can think of self-defense and protection as a legitimate reason, the same reason why some people carry tasers and other forms of self-defense equipment. Any equipment can be misused and used to kill, however proving beyond reasonable doubt that the intent such equipment was supplied was purely in order to be misused for killing will require a lot of inferred hypotheticals which makes it doubtful (ie. not beyond reasonable doubt).

    As manaloneforever pointed out, this is bending the rules and if this charge goes through successfully and the parents are found guilty, it would also set a dangerous precedent and open the floodgates for charges on parents for acts they did not condone nor do.
    Kid was caught looking up ammo on school computer. Parents laughed and told him not to get caught next time..then they were hiding in an art studio. They are guilty as sin and they know it.

    This is pretty open and shut. Buying a handgun for a minor and buying them a car are two different beasts. The timing and circumstances of this case are fishy and eventually the whole story will come out. If the parents are innocent why did they try to evade police? Police are not dumb, they don't get warrants on murder charges for shits and giggles. They have hard evidence that hasn't even come to light yet. I won't be surprised when the media ties them to "white terror/proud boys" and push for more gun restrictions.

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    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    I’m going to leave the whole debate about guns out of it for a moment and reply to the title of the thread:

    … You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. …
    Surely this has been the case for a long time: Incitement to violence to name but one.

    With regards to this case – who knows? That’s what the trial is for.

    Maybe the parents as a pair weren’t complicit. The mother sent a text saying “Ethan, don’t do it.”

    Maybe the father, the one who purchased the gun and seemingly gave it to his 15 year old son was the instigator and encouraged the action?

    Maybe the mother, finding out about this just as it was about to go down sent the text?

    Maybe the mother was in on it all along and sent the text in the hope of evading suspicion of her complicity?

    There are too many unanswered questions – that’s why we have trials.

    I’m neither pro nor anti gun. I find the seeming U.S. fascination with them intriguing and a little perplexing, but giving one to your 15 year old son without access control seems reckless to me at least, intentional at worst.

    But what do I know about life in the U.S.? I’m just a dumb Paddy!

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    Re: You can now get arrested for crimes you didn't do. | BREAKING: The Michigan prosecutor just filed involuntary manslaughter charges against suspect's parents in the Oxford High School shooting.

    Dad's mixed up in this somehow. Ain't sure about mom, but dad is. He bought the gun a week before the shooting, that can't be accidental. I wouldn't be surprised if he don't turn out to be the rotten apple in this barrel. At least one of them.

    If the parents weren't up to something, I don't think they'd be facing the charges they are. I know the laws not always to be trusted, but this time somethings going on.

    Don't feel bad Jackoff, this one's got us baffled too. Usually, the kid steals the gun.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.


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