Thread: Why White-Knighting?

It has occasionally crossed my mind the question of why I was such a White-Knighter when I was younger. I spent a lot of time and energy continuously trying to help people I seen as being in difficulty. I would ask them about their problem and offer possible options to solve it for them. I never told them what they should do but simply suggested possible ways of looking at things to achieve their goals. And when it came to the girlies, I would step in to defend and support them at EVERY opportunity whether I was involved with them or not.

It took some years but I eventually realised that those I tried to help eventually came to resent me and this I could not understand, after all I had went out of my way to help them and was for the most part successful. It didn’t make sense to me then and still doesn’t for the most part. My best guess is that in telling me their problems they conveyed a part of their innermost thoughts that they later regretted and came to believe that I had somehow manipulated them into divulging stuff that I could use against them; something I would never do, but their fear of this arising caused them to distance themselves from me. This is the only reason I have been able to come up with.

Anyhow,

For some reason I felt that I was capable of solving the problems of the world if only I could make people see things like I did. The naivety of youth obviously has something to do with it, but where did this strange notion originate?

Growing up I was the youngest of five siblings with a five year difference between me and the next up. By the time I hit my early teens I had seen for years the stresses the rest of my family were going through and obviously this had an effect on me.

While on the surface we seemed no different from any other family in my area I later came to realise that there were two very important differences:

First, my dad. He was not around a lot of the time. His work would take him away for months at a time and while I understood that he was doing this in order to provide for me and my family and loved him for that, I was deprived of his input for most of my upbringing. I don’t resent this in the slightest; it’s merely a statement of fact.

Second, my mum. Making excuses for her she was obviously under a lot of pressure – but. She would create problems seemingly out of nowhere and I think that maybe this is where I got my strange notion of being able to solve these problems as they were obviously nonsensical for the most part. But I was only an inexperienced child to them and no-one would listen.

All this is to say that the dominant force in my upbringing was my mother (R.I.P.) and she was, with all due respect, a catastrophe. Whilst she didn’t drink, nor ‘go out with the girls’, she was off her head most of the time on prescription drugs (I’m sure Xanthine knows all about this). Her manipulations and hamstering were of epic proportions and were a daily source of arguments that made no sense to me (nor my siblings) at all. Add a bit of choice religious zealotry into this mix and you have a recipe for disaster.

I am still unsure if this was the main cause for the White-Knight being brought out in me, or it was the programming of society, or if it’s a male instinctual thing to protect those around us, or just because I was bigger and stronger than most of those around me and could force others to back down (when it came to defending the girlies). Maybe it was a combination of all of the above?

Well, whatever the reason it took many years and a lot of disappointment in other’s reactions to dispel this notion. Whilst I still wish to help others if I‘m able I have learned the hard way that IRL you usually get no thanks for your efforts and are often used then tossed aside, though there are exceptions to this that help sustain what little faith I still have in humanity. The odd individual appreciating your efforts is one such thing, but the idea of the man club mentioned in an earlier thread is also important.

That’s what I like though about sites like this. People that are willing to offer their opinions, advice and experience purely for the benefit of others is a rare commodity. Long live MGTOW.

While most people have a negative view of him, Machiavelli was a down to earth realist.

People mostly operate through fear. Not necessarily physical fear, but the fear of losing money, opportunities, a job, a beneficial connection...
The deep down understanding of the human being is that NOTHING IS FOR FREE. Therefore, if someone does something there is a gain somehow. At best we understand "delayed retribution", like with friends and in old times. But mostly we expect immediate retribution.

The Judeo/Christian morale goes against it. Thus we enter a cognitive dissonance. One thing is the appearances, another is reality. That makes it harder for young men, because they might take the superficial as serious.

But in fact, someone that WANTS to go around helping people is seen in a very bad light. As if his NEED is demeaning, and the people that helped where actually doing him a favor.

Respect is only gained through fear. Again, not physically fear (but helps), but rather fear of losing things.
A coworker might fear that another might not help him if he needs, so he will respect the other. But if the other is to anxious to help out, then his help becomes a cheap commodity... there is no fear of losing it, is there?

So, a man should recognize his value and operate in ways that he receives commensurate retribution. And he should be fair, paying what he receives with equal value... the good and the bad.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

And when it came to the girlies, I would step in to defend and support them at EVERY opportunity whether I was involved with them or not.

You know, that alone would make its own thread! Whether you were involved with them or not. Yeah, what are the drivers other than, say, wanting the self-satisfaction that the opposite sex saw you as great? Do boys/men do this to differentiate themselves from the weak?

For some reason I felt that I was capable of solving the problems of the world if only I could make people see things like I did. The naivety of youth obviously has something to do with it, but where did this strange notion originate?

Random thoughts in random order, just thrown out here:

1) a small child tries to reach his little toy perched on a shelf, but his reach is just not enough, even on his tiptoes. You watch him struggle and try and try, but you know he will never reach it. He does not know that. You get up off your chair and go over and bring the toy to his outstretched hand. Why did you do that?

Did you want to make him happy? Did you want to end his suffering? Did you love him as a fellow human being? Did you recognize that your abilities exceeded his? He had the desire, you had the wherewithal? Plain old teamwork? Simple pity? What was it?

2) They say younger children have the advantage in watching mistakes made by the older siblings, to observe the mistakes made and who made them. You were youngest out of five. I was fourth out of six and I know us younger ones watched how not to make the mistakes of the older ones. Is this a small head-start on eventual wisdom, an advantage not available to all? On a related thought, it is said that only-children do not have the early years of developing conflict-resolution skills with loving siblings, a skill useful in later life.

3) Depending on the situation and the person, I can get impatient when I see people flounder in their confusion, if I've seen a way out before. I have acknowledged to myself, modesty aside, that I have some mental talents to stay out of life's sand traps. Other people are different. I tell myself that if I am to be the recipient of a person's complaining, if listening to their stuff is a cost to me, then it's my option to respond with tactful response, otherwise in my silence I am their bitching post and that makes me live life in their presence at their level. That, I won't do. I won't disrespect myself by holding back who I am, in the face of other people not holding back who they are. I mean, if I allow their conflicting statements to roll around in my head without resolution, then I am as dumb as they are. But, I'm not. By my responses, I am maintaining my own mental health. Letting my brain do what it does. Maybe this perspective shows more of a love for myself than a love to fix other people. The other people become incidental, and any useful help from me is also incidental.

4) Society has always taught children to help other children. Starts very young, conditioning for other-ness over selfish-ness.

So much wasted time, effort, expense, and even personal danger can be avoided simply by asking, "Did anyone actually ask for your goddamn help?".

Helping hands do the most harm.

Feed someone every day and they'll expect to be fed every day. Let them learn how to hunt, farm, and fish, and they'll feed themselves for a lifetime.

I have damn good friends that I'll drop what I'm doing when they "need help" and they do the same for me, rarely do we even have to ask one another, it's the code of honest wholesome friendship that drives us toward one another in concern, compassion, and understanding. This is a code I don't see in modern woman, perhaps it was destroyed by feminism and gynocentrism by making them to "believe" they deserve it without reciprocation.

No humility, no empathy, only a self defeating attitude of entitlement and self adornment.

I have ZERO female "friends" only modern women I know and have to deal with accordingly.

Originally Posted by Mr Wombat

So much wasted time, effort, expense, and even personal danger can be avoided simply by asking, "Did anyone actually ask for your goddamn help?".

With regards the offering of advice, I believe that if anyone talks to me of their problems then that in itself is asking for my help or opinion even if they do not ask outright, otherwise why bring the topic up?

With regards helping the girlies you have a point. While it never happened to me I did witness a few occasions when the white knight was turned on by both parties for his efforts. There is a lot to be said for keeping out of other people's business.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

With regards the offering of advice, I believe that if anyone talks to me of their problems then that in itself is asking for my help or opinion even if they do not ask outright, otherwise why bring the topic up?

Yeah but unfortunately all the people out there don't know your uniform belief around this anymore than you know which ones want actual advice towards resolution or only want to vent in the presence of another person for what it provides for them. If they wanted only sympathy, they guessed wrong about you, is all. Most people don't advise you (or me) in advance of their complaint which role they want you to play. They just proceed with what they want you to hear, as this need is more immediate to them than fretting a communication hiccup. That's the world. The inelegance built into this will never be eliminated in human discourse except between people who have each learned how to thoughtfully give and receive complaints in full knowledge of the lack of uniformity in our thinking.


Here's a video that makes fun of how it famously happens between men and women:

Women admit they are attracted to social alpha's with lots of:
Passion $$$
Drive $$$
Ambition $$$
Direction $$$
Confidence $$$
Motivation $$$

I mean, c'mon, only gold digging whores are attracted to men with money.

White Knights are useful idiots. It's a key element of Beta "nice guy" behavior. Women are usually, for example, between men when they are between apartments. NONE OF THE MEN helping with the move are going to be the guy fucking her in that bed they are moving up the stairs. So, how many of them want to be?

When feminist women describe the ideal guy, he's always nice and helpful. He doesn't expect sex for his helpfulness. That's him treating her like a "machine you put nice coins in to get sex out". However, women are free to trade their sexual access for anything they with with whomever they want. Chad can rough her up in bed and even leave her with an unwanted pregnancy. No repercussions. Eric dares to ask her out (thinking that he's a 5 and so is she) and he's #metoo'd and loses his job.

The entire thing is about making women's polygamous nature and alpha-fux beta-bux mating strategy less uncomfortable for them.

They want to reduce the number of times they need to reject a man to zero.

Men are supposed to automatically know their place - know whether they are welcome to approach for sex, or stay away and be a "good friend, like a brother" or help her move, or fix her car, or listen to her f*cked up girl problems - and be her emotional tampon. Are not women ultimately concerned with security and comfort?

There is nothing wrong, despite what feminist theorists will tell you, with a man wanting sex for it's own sake. It's WOMEN, in fact, who always seem to make sex transactional.

The idea that men make sex transactional and turn women into sex objects is yet another narcissistic projection.

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

Yeah but unfortunately all the people out there don't know your uniform belief around this anymore than you know which ones want actual advice towards resolution or only want to vent in the presence of another person for what it provides for them. If they wanted only sympathy, they guessed wrong about you, is all. Most people don't advise you (or me) in advance of their complaint which role they want you to play. They just proceed with what they want you to hear, as this need is more immediate to them than fretting a communication hiccup. That's the world. The inelegance built into this will never be eliminated in human discourse except between people who have each learned how to thoughtfully give and receive complaints in full knowledge of the lack of uniformity in our thinking.


Here's a video that makes fun of how it famously happens between men and women:

LMAO, but point well made!

IRL, talk to me not at me. If you don't care about my views why should I care about your problems? Go talk to a wall, it would care about as much!

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

Yeah but unfortunately all the people out there don't know your uniform belief around this anymore than you know which ones want actual advice towards resolution or only want to vent in the presence of another person for what it provides for them. If they wanted only sympathy, they guessed wrong about you, is all. Most people don't advise you (or me) in advance of their complaint which role they want you to play. They just proceed with what they want you to hear, as this need is more immediate to them than fretting a communication hiccup. That's the world. The inelegance built into this will never be eliminated in human discourse except between people who have each learned how to thoughtfully give and receive complaints in full knowledge of the lack of uniformity in our thinking.


Here's a video that makes fun of how it famously happens between men and women:

That is one of the greatest videos of all time. Thanks for resurrecting it in my memory. I had forgotten all about it.

Regarding the OP, I probably differ from many with my opinion.

I think a good number of men really are simply good men who want to help others. We are in fact, very easy marks for the rest of humanity. I know for a fact that my mother preyed on my basic nature. She dumped all of her problems onto me and I earnestly tried to help, as young as I was. Like all people, we project our own values, in this case innate goodness, onto the people around us and expect them to return kindness back to us. Because we attract predators however, this almost never happens. The projecting is strong however and it takes a good long while for us to wake up and realize we aren't the ones doing anything wrong.

This is why Robert Glover, author of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" rubs me the wrong way. His concept of cover contracts assumes we are all driven by cost benefit analysis. That all "nice" actions are driven by our own covert needs. He also assumes that women don't know exactly what men want from them. This is a crock of shit. Women know exactly what they are doing when they get men to dance like monkeys for them. "Nice Guys" are trained by their very own mothers to simp for everyone. It isn't a covert contract, it is a fraudulent contract with the "Nice Guy" as the dupe. Assuming if we give others what they want and need, they will return the favor is all part of this fraudulent deal.

I offer a personal example from my life. I was just starting to digest the red pill. I was trying desperately to kill my inner beta / nice guy persona. In this instance I failed.

A complete mess of a family had their car break down in front of the coffee shop I was in. They came in and asked the barista for help. She politely declined and apologized because she REALLY wished she could help (I'm guessing not really). I looked at the bitchy wife shooting daggers at her man. I looked at the poor simp trying his best to figure out how to fix the situation. I saw the little girl who didn't understand what was going on. She simply was at the end of her tether and wanted very badly to be at home.

I instinctively jumped up and helped them. It turned out to be an issue with their battery if I recall correctly. I helped them get the old one out and get it to the nearest auto-parts store. All of this was taking far too long for the wife. She had attitude the whole time. My heart genuinely bled for the dude because I had been on the receiving end of that kind of attitude many times in my life.

All total, I bet I spent an hour and a half helping these people out. I never expected anything in return from them. They were in fact from out of town and I knew that I would never see them again. Something deep inside me just made me want to help them. Afterward though, I was kicking myself. Why did I waste so much time helping complete strangers? Am I not supposed to be killing this nice guy thing? Why did not another soul in the coffee shop even look up? Everyone else in the place did their level best to ignore these distressed people? As a side note, the man was the only one that said thanks. Another reoccurring theme in life I'm afraid.

I don't have the answers to these questions. I only offer this story to tell you, maybe you really are just a nice guy. If anyone else reading this identifies with it, you need to steel yourself against reality. Most people are shit and will use you until their is nothing left. Stop projecting your innate goodness onto people that do not deserve it. In my opinion, the only thing you should offer to complete strangers is courtesy. Beyond that, you make your decisions on a case by case basis. Do you have time to help the stranded family? Then help them if you choose. You damned well better not miss that job interview for them though. You come first. Everyone else benefits from your energy only when you see fit.

Originally Posted by pbisque

I think a good number of men really are simply good men who want to help others. We are in fact, very easy marks for the rest of humanity...

That is exactly what I suspect, to be one of the biggest problem with most men. I am definitely not one of them, but I have a lot of respect for people with that kind of behavior. I have been offered help without asking many times, and I am extremely grateful for that gesture, and to these people, I sometimes offer help without asking.

To others though, I am inert as stone most of the time, but if transgressed upon, I am an extremely mean person. To give an example, there was some minor incident where it was not my fault, but mom got angry. I was around 10-12 years old. She decided to not talk to me for few hours, and she had a habit of doing that. That time I got extremely angry, and I then decided to not talk to her for like 20 days. It drove her to tears. And I didnt even feel anything out of it.

That may sound like I was probably a jerkface teenager. It wasnt the case. I was told to wash my hands before eating once, and I always washed my hands. I was told to eat veggies, I ate veggies. The point is, I followed orders religiously, often to the surprise of adults, who themselves didnt always follow what they say, like washing hands before eating. Instructions like those were given with a sound reasoning. I was more than happy to follow them. But when someone tries to be unreasonable with their demands, that trips me pretty fast, pretty hard.

And to strangers who are not interacting with me, I reciprocate gladly, by not reacting or empathizing with them. Had I been in that store you mentioned, and could've helped them fixing the engine, I wouldnt have bothered the least. They arent asking me, so not my problem. And even if they ask, I would most likely refuse after seeing a harpy shrieking all over the place.

All of that, BEFORE I was formally introduced to red pill or anything. Now, I am even more extreme in my approach. Again, all those people who manage to gain my respect/admiration are on a different list. To them I act more "normal". Its just that by default a person doesnt start on that list.

Originally Posted by pbisque

Like all people, we project our own values, in this case innate goodness, onto the people around us and expect them to return kindness back to us.

I have often suspected that those with 'innate goodness' as you term it tend to see (and look for) the goodness in others, and those with bad attitudes (e.g. those that always seem to be annoyed) tend to see others as bad people.

Can you guess which type I married? LOL.

Originally Posted by pbisque

Can you guess which type I married? LOL.

The kind with three holes? One's full of shit, one spews nothing but shit, and the last hole we're supposed to fuck? If it must have three holes, I'd rather have a bowling ball!

White knighting is frowned upon even by blue pillers because it is seen as controlling behavior. It has been mentioned already but white knighting indeed is seeing as parental behavior and that is where the resentment comes from with grown adults.

I gave up white knighting long ago and now adhere to the sandbox principal. If you want to enter my sandbox looking for help you abide by my rules. But if you leave my sandbox I am not helping you. It is marvelous to see how children understand these principles of mutual exchange but are quickly scrubbed by the time they grow into adults due to brainwashing. This brainwashing makes it sound like you must give, give and give and expect little in return. But that is idealistic but reality is the exchange has to be near 1:1 or else it will not work.

If all the pee pee's fell off all of the men today, we'd find out in a hurry who's motivated purely by thirst and who is not. I think the numbers would surprise a lot of people. Feminism would be relegated to the pages of history in under 72 hours.

One thing for sure is that there would be millions of women on the street carrying suitcases, children in hand, looking for a shelter and welfare sign up booth. They would find out in a hurry the only reason he was keeping her around and putting up with her drama, constant shit and abuse, mood swings and money wasting.

Then, the popcorn shortage from us watching it all...

Originally Posted by Insidious_Sid

If all the pee pee's fell off all of the men today, we'd find out in a hurry who's motivated purely by thirst and who is not. I think the numbers would surprise a lot of people. Feminism would be relegated to the pages of history in under 72 hours.

One thing for sure is that there would be millions of women on the street carrying suitcases, children in hand, looking for a shelter and welfare sign up booth. They would find out in a hurry the only reason he was keeping her around and putting up with her drama, constant shit and abuse, mood swings and money wasting.

Then, the popcorn shortage from us watching it all...

Uh..Dude........I want my pee pee. I need it to piss and I just like to have it hanging around. But if you want to chemically castrate me there is no need. My days off chasing pussy is long gone.

Originally Posted by mgtower

The kind with three holes? One's full of shit, one spews nothing but shit, and the last hole we're supposed to fuck? If it must have three holes, I'd rather have a bowling ball!

LOL - that about sums it up

Originally Posted by Unboxxed

Yeah but unfortunately all the people out there don't know your uniform belief around this anymore than you know which ones want actual advice towards resolution or only want to vent in the presence of another person for what it provides for them. If they wanted only sympathy, they guessed wrong about you, is all. Most people don't advise you (or me) in advance of their complaint which role they want you to play. They just proceed with what they want you to hear, as this need is more immediate to them than fretting a communication hiccup. That's the world. The inelegance built into this will never be eliminated in human discourse except between people who have each learned how to thoughtfully give and receive complaints in full knowledge of the lack of uniformity in our thinking.


Here's a video that makes fun of how it famously happens between men and women:

Don't fix it just frickin' listen........ ahhhhh one reason why I like machines better than womenz