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  1. #21
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Magarac View Post
    Just be being themselves without being "red pilled" (hate that expression).
    The Red pill = Truth or knowledge. Acknowledgment that human nature and society has made the traditional family a thing of the past for most men or TBP life.

    I will agree, I hated the term "Red Pill". I didn't like what I learned, down right hated to hear that the people I respected the most lied to me growing up. My mother and my grandmother being the biggest ones, they had lots of opportunity to prepare me for what I would later encounter. My mother still will not admit female nature is a thing, and yet she displays traits of it in her everyday life, she's over 80 now... My rage is gone, they wanted grandchildren, I learned every woman has a motive or agenda, (Briffault's Law), if they cannot benefit, they will not have any contact with you. Women communicate by actions, the talking is just an expression of their thought process.

  2. #22
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ResidentEvil7 View Post
    MGTOW has shown me that there are good men still left in the world I can share my life experiences with and they don't judge; instead they either help or relate.
    We are all on the same journey just different paths.

    There is no competition. Females create competition in men, it's part of human nature. As all traits in human nature the competition may not be front and centre, but it will likely show up in time. That is why married (or GF & BF) couples do not normally hang around with single men. The women like it, the man doesn't normally promote it. Being MGTOW, I find having someone's wife or GF in the conversations an intrusion, I try to avoid the situation. There is no competition or the competition is for the man's attention not the woman's, and it can piss the woman off...

  3. #23
    Senior Member O.G.'s Avatar
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverBachelor View Post
    I’m definitely a mgtow but I’m sometimes conflicted on whether it was a blessing or curse to take this path as I never experienced any of the negative things others on this sub have but also never received any kind of the intimacy, romance, first experiences. I’ve never expected my life to take such a different direction compared to most people around me but I think I’m trying to be content and be grateful for the life I have been given. You mentioned in a sub before that why people like me still want to experience a relationship is because most haven’t been hit with the same intensity as mgtow men and maybe that will help me cement myself as a mgtow.
    I just don't think it's right for us to advise any young man to 100% avoid women. I don't think its right to advise P4P hookers for sex. Neither is a natural thing. Just not what a man is made for.

    Telling a young man to never get a woman pregnant. Never get married. Never live with a woman I think is the right thing to do. Letting him know how he will tend to think one woman is the one. That he stands a good chance of getting heartbroken if he expects the blue pill fairy tale. Very important.

    I think sexual development in a man is very important. It's wrong for us to advise against it. It's also wrong to not show him the difference between sex with a woman and blue pill love stories.

    At this age he should be working on his Night Moves. Provided he has been schooled in a way many of us were not. Somewhere between total abstinence and pussy worship is a better way for young men to develop sexually. Yet we here never seem to talk about that. Not a good thing for the men growing up behind us.

    "People are always angry at anyone who chooses very individual standards for his life; because of the extraordinary treatment which that man grants to himself, they feel degraded, like ordinary beings."
    - Nietzsche


  4. #24

    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    > I just don't think it's right for us to advise any young man to 100% avoid women.

    Hmm.

    The thing is... any young man that doesn't, is playing with fire.

    I've read some of your posts in the forum, O.G. - and I can see that you have some sort of fuck-buddy situation, that allows you to quench your thirst without emotional entanglements. I understand your choice, and can see that because of your life experience, you are in no danger (of becoming a slave to said fuck-buddy).

    For most young men of today, however, the situation is far more dangerous. Indoctrinated since childhood with Disney fairy tales of princesses; peer-pressured to "man up" and "get a girlfriend"; their own genes screaming to be reproduced (see my "Incels, women and life" post (https://www.goingyourownway.com/mgto...d-mgtow-16630/) for my viewpoint on the matter).

    What I am trying to say, is that... sadly, avoiding women is, by far, the safest course of action when you are young - and your blood, your society, your friends push you towards the disaster of modern marriage.

    Not saying it's easy; even though it was decades ago, I do remember how my young blood thirsted for females.

    But given the state of women today? Heck yes - I'd definitely advise abstinence.

    To any young readers of this forum, I recommend "The ancient art of Stoic Joy" - read it, to learn about a different kind of happiness, far deeper than any nut-busting with or without a woman... The Joy a man feels when he is absolutely in control of himself; and doesn't feel the tyranny of any vice or thirst driving him like an animal.

  5. #25
    Senior Member O.G.'s Avatar
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by end_of_days View Post
    > I just don't think it's right for us to advise any young man to 100% avoid women.

    Hmm.

    The thing is... any young man that doesn't, is playing with fire.

    I've read some of your posts in the forum, O.G. - and I can see that you have some sort of fuck-buddy situation, that allows you to quench your thirst without emotional entanglements. I understand your choice, and can see that because of your life experience, you are in no danger (of becoming a slave to said fuck-buddy).

    For most young men of today, however, the situation is far more dangerous. Indoctrinated since childhood with Disney fairy tales of princesses; peer-pressured to "man up" and "get a girlfriend"; their own genes screaming to be reproduced (see my "Incels, women and life" post (https://www.goingyourownway.com/mgto...d-mgtow-16630/) for my viewpoint on the matter).

    What I am trying to say, is that... sadly, avoiding women is, by far, the safest course of action when you are young - and your blood, your society, your friends push you towards the disaster of modern marriage.

    Not saying it's easy; even though it was decades ago, I do remember how my young blood thirsted for females.

    But given the state of women today? Heck yes - I'd definitely advise abstinence.

    To any young readers of this forum, I recommend "The ancient art of Stoic Joy" - read it, to learn about a different kind of happiness, far deeper than any nut-busting with or without a woman... The Joy a man feels when he is absolutely in control of himself; and doesn't feel the tyranny of any vice or thirst driving him like an animal.
    If we are both honest with ourselves. We both don't know if either of our advice to a young man will be followed by him. As opposite as that advice may be. As a young man I seldom listened to advice from elders. Had to find out on my own. The hard way. That they were right.

    I would say you may not have read the second sticky thread at the top of this section of the forum by Jager. It's just from last month. About what he feels about it

    This is not, nor have ever has been, a place to hate women, or claim all are evil.

    It's not a place to engage in simple extremes and suggest lifestyles which are counter-productive like acting with paranoia around women. Extreme views tend to become popular for their simplicity but they obscure the truth. The more you dumb it down, the easier it is for some to digest.

    We do value thoughtful analysis, nuance, and most of all - the truth. The truth is almost never black & white; it requires deductive and inductive reasoning to arrive at. We do not value defeatism and cynicism- there are plenty of MGTOW spaces where you can routinely overrate the risk of women ("DON'T EVEN LOOK AT A WOMAN, DON'T MAKE EYE CONTACT!!11!"), and other self-defeating mentalities.

    People who have been on these boards know the difference. If I hear one person going "oh so you mean we can't criticize women", that's going to get the boot. Re-read what is written and the Principles.
    I agree with that concept 100%. I still think this thread. Like many other threads here denies the possibility of an alternate path.

    That is not the truth.
    "People are always angry at anyone who chooses very individual standards for his life; because of the extraordinary treatment which that man grants to himself, they feel degraded, like ordinary beings."
    - Nietzsche


  6. #26

    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    > We both don't know if either of our advice to a young man will be followed.

    Oh, for sure - no doubt about that. But I think the young people visiting this forum are... let's just say, more inquisitive than average. At the very least, they are thinking enough about life to not live it on "auto pilot"; find wife, fuck, have kids, buy house, pay mortgage, get fat/old, die.

    This - the attempt to think about life, and the pain that is usually associated with that reasoning - is in fact why I participate in this very nice online community. I do not believe I am "preaching", nor advocating hatred towards women. It's quite simple, really: all of us here, sooner or later, recognised reality for what it is; and broke through the lies and fairy tales our societies/friends/families/priests instilled in us about "marital bliss".

    And then, our search for the truth, led us to the decision that we should go our own way.

    In my case, decades later, I discovered I am not alone; that there's a "movement" of men like me, called MGTOW; and I then discovered this forum.

    I do not believe I am breaking the rules of the forum with my views.
    I hope I am not wrong.
    Last edited by end_of_days; September 22, 2022 at 7:49 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    All I have ever screened for is that our members, Men Going Their Own Way, are not wanting emotional relationships with women, now or later. I make multiple statements about that. Call it A.

    That does not prohibit MGTOW from having uninvolved sex with women, if they like, as they like, or not at all. I've made fewer statements about that. Call it B.

    All that is not A, is B.

    So, whether a member wants abstention, or wants more than that but less than being emotionally involved with a woman, this is decided by the member. This decision is none of my business as Admin. My business is screening out A.

    To the degree in which mentoring of B is discussed on this site is up to the members. We have two sub-forums called P4P and Game. I also see it discussed randomly, here and there, in threads. Just be careful at it so it doesn't look like A and so mods don't have to swoop in and worry about A.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  8. #28
    Senior Member O.G.'s Avatar
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by end_of_days View Post
    > We both don't know if either of our advice to a young man will be followed.

    Oh, for sure - no doubt about that. But I think the young people visiting this forum are... let's just say, more inquisitive than average. At the very least, they are thinking enough about life to not live it on "auto pilot"; find wife, fuck, have kids, buy house, pay mortgage, get fat/old, die.
    I could not agree more. I also think it strengthens what I'm saying even more. A young inquisitive man, who comes to this forum. Will have zero problem finding post after post on why he should avoid women. I think the reasons in many of those posts are exaggerated. Yes it can be risky. Yes it can be tough.

    What is missing here is much talk about what a young man could do to take some risk away. Advice on how not to jackpot himself unintentionally with a woman he would like to have sex with

    Ubxd pointed out we do have a bachelor and P4P sub forums as well. What I will add to that is this. They are two of the deadest sub forums here. The young man has little to learn there. I toss in that even when you do post in those sub's. Many of the comments are about the same thing. Oh I don't do that. I stay away from women. I never understood how those comments progressed the thread.

    This - the attempt to think about life, and the pain that is usually associated with that reasoning - is in fact why I participate in this very nice online community. I do not believe I am "preaching", nor advocating hatred towards women. It's quite simple, really: all of us here, sooner or later, recognised reality for what it is; and broke through the lies and fairy tales our societies/friends/families/priests instilled in us about "marital bliss".
    Once again I could not agree more. Again the bulk of the posts here relate the experience of men who broke through. I also don't think you are preaching as well. You have only said what multiple posts above us have implied in their own ways. I also want to let you know I have no issue with you personally or your beliefs. I never felt you were advocating hatred. Clearly we are only talking about a small portion of what Jagr said.

    You responded to my thoughts. In a very articulate and gentleman like way. It's why I chose to respond to your post. I had hoped we could have a good discussion about to sides of the coin. Just like we are. I did not mean to imply you were breaking forum rules either.

    I posted that Jagr quote mainly for this reason.

    Extreme views tend to become popular for their simplicity but they obscure the truth.
    If I read correctly here. We allow guys as young as 13 years old to sign up here for membership. I feel it is very extreme to tell a very young man to stay away from women 100%. Which is my main point. I also don't think it's realistic.

    You can tell a kid. Don't drink. Don't do drugs. Don't drive high. Don't speed or drive reckless. Yet some grow up to be addicts. Too many die driving high and so forth. Telling him to avoid women at all costs is most likely just as ineffective. They are going to do what they will do. We can't protect them from learning in their own way.

    We can and should offer them alternate good info. Counter to the narrative that is pounded into them by society about women, marriage and relationships. I just think we could do a better job of providing info that gives them a path that is not complete avoidance.

    Last I will mention is that I have been here a while. I have seen this forum when you could discuss the issues I think we should. Forum members with girlfriend. Forum members who were married. If you look at the dates of the posts in the bachelors section. You will see the dates when those types of posts died down. When the balance of what is posted here turned to stay away. Stay away from women.

    I appreciate the discussion End Of. If we were at the mens club. Talking this over like we are. I would offer to refresh your drink about now. I have zero ill will to the keep em away crowd. Their choice. Their way.

    There are also ways to relate with women and still remain MGTOW Including sexual.

    P.S. As further proof of my point. This thread has gotten so quite you can hear a pin drop. Simply because I have brought forth the idea there are other ways to be MGTOW.
    "People are always angry at anyone who chooses very individual standards for his life; because of the extraordinary treatment which that man grants to himself, they feel degraded, like ordinary beings."
    - Nietzsche


  9. #29

    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by O.G. View Post
    Once again I could not agree more. Again the bulk of the posts here relate the experience of men who broke through. I also don't think you are preaching as well. You have only said what multiple posts above us have implied in their own ways. I also want to let you know I have no issue with you personally or your beliefs. I never felt you were advocating hatred. Clearly we are only talking about a small portion of what Jagr said.
    Glad we agree - and indeed, no issue and no animosity of any kind from me either.

    Quote Originally Posted by O.G. View Post
    I feel it is very extreme to tell a very young man to stay away from women 100%. Which is my main point. I also don't think it's realistic.
    I will grant you that it is unrealistic for some - a few - men. Raging, unstoppable hormones... Each of us is born with a different set of genes, and for some of us, the blood isn't just boiling; it's a curse - volcanic lava. For those who can't deal with it, I strongly urge they reach out. Ask for advice, PM guys like O.G., get some hands-on sanity on dealing with the thirst.

    But don't dismiss the idea of exercising your willpower, either. It is, like everything else, a muscle. You can fight against your desires. We all desire women - untold aeons of evolution "programmed" us to willfully become slaves to women. But you can fight that desire, just like an alcoholic addicted to booze can choose to stay sober. In many ways, it's no different than any other drug - it just so happens that it's a naturally occuring one, pre-built inside us.

    And yes, I freely admit I said "naturally" and yet advocate against it. "Nature" isn't the be-all and end-all of everything. Cancer is "natural", your eyes losing the ability to focus as you get older is "natural"... Put simply: fighting against a pathetic part of your nature (the "simp within"), that can easily end up destroying your happiness, is absolutely a worthwhile goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by O.G. View Post
    I appreciate the discussion End Of. If we were at the mens club. Talking this over like we are. I would offer to refresh your drink about now. I have zero ill will to the keep em away crowd. Their choice. Their way.
    Same here. If nothing else, you provide a balancing counterpoint for the other half of the audience.
    Cheers, man.
    Last edited by end_of_days; September 23, 2022 at 7:29 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    If I may enter the debate:

    There are a few of us here on this site that advocate total abstinence from associating with women in any form.

    IMO this is the rage talking and is a perfectly natural reaction to having been shat on from a height.

    I could never advocate this stance. I have said many times that I have female friends.

    However I wouldn’t trust one of them with anything, not even my thoughts. I have learned this the hard way. They have a way of turning anything you say against you; maybe not right away but they can have selective recall: You once said this… taking the whole shit out of context.

    And yet I can enjoy their company in a friend/associate way where talk is general – Hey, how’re you doing?

    It’s not about hating on women; it’s about knowing the boundaries that once crossed can land you in a world of shit.

    IMO FWB crosses these boundaries.

    No Marriage, No Cohabitation, No Impregnation is the refrain. IMO this is insufficient, merely a minimum.

    To truly Go Your Own Way (with regards females) one has to cut the influence of women from one’s life as far as possible.

    FWB eliminates the possibility of this.

  11. #31
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    If I may enter the debate:

    There are a few of us here on this site that advocate total abstinence from associating with women in any form.

    IMO this is the rage talking and is a perfectly natural reaction to having been shat on from a height.

    I could never advocate this stance. I have said many times that I have female friends.

    However I wouldn’t trust one of them with anything, not even my thoughts. I have learned this the hard way. They have a way of turning anything you say against you; maybe not right away but they can have selective recall: You once said this… taking the whole shit out of context.

    And yet I can enjoy their company in a friend/associate way where talk is general – Hey, how’re you doing?

    It’s not about hating on women; it’s about knowing the boundaries that once crossed can land you in a world of shit.

    IMO FWB crosses these boundaries.

    No Marriage, No Cohabitation, No Impregnation is the refrain. IMO this is insufficient, merely a minimum.

    To truly Go Your Own Way (with regards females) one has to cut the influence of women from one’s life as far as possible.

    FWB eliminates the possibility of this.
    Very good delineating description of MGTOW/full-circle, the lion tamers go inside the cage, we stay outside the cage.
    In the beginning, it only ate men, now it's coming for the women and children, and nothing can stop it.

  12. #32
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    If I may enter the debate:

    There are a few of us here on this site that advocate total abstinence from associating with women in any form.

    IMO this is the rage talking and is a perfectly natural reaction to having been shat on from a height.

    I could never advocate this stance. I have said many times that I have female friends.

    However I wouldn’t trust one of them with anything, not even my thoughts. I have learned this the hard way. They have a way of turning anything you say against you; maybe not right away but they can have selective recall: You once said this… taking the whole shit out of context.

    And yet I can enjoy their company in a friend/associate way where talk is general – Hey, how’re you doing?
    That's not a friend, that's an acquaintenance.

  13. #33
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brock View Post
    That's not a friend, that's an acquaintenance.
    Kinda depends on one’s definition of a friend then doesn’t it?

    Someone whose company you enjoy and who enjoys your company can be considered a friend.

    Someone you can rely on in a time of need may be considered a “real” friend.

    But I’ve lived a life that has tested these “real” friends and all but a few, a VERY few have come up short.

    So, what is a friend?

  14. #34
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    Where are all the MGTOW men?

    Long time passing.

    Where are all the MGTOW men?

    Long, long, time ago.

    Where are all the MGROW men?

    They've gone their own way, every one!

    When with the bitches learn?

    When will they ever learn?

  15. #35
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    MGTOW men are hardly the types to wear a MGTOW t shirt or speak openly about their beliefs in public and especially at work. Sure, there are still heaps of Blue Pill simps out there who think they can beat the system but I think there is a growing number of MGTOW.

    What makes me think that? Over the past 10 years I have noticed more and more MGTOW type comments in newspapers, Youtube and various social media. They are becoming more common and are being published more often and tend to have a high number of "Thumbs Up" or similar on them.

    Porn sites was the big surprise for me, in the past you had Simps just slobbering all over the women, compliments etc. I have noticed more MGTOW comments, judgement, observations and generally challenging the video.

    Less men are thinking with their little brain which is a great thing. For me MGTOW is about challenging our physiology and natural impulses and desires. Especially when you have a rigged game as we do now where following those impulses too deeply can lead to a world of hurt.

  16. #36

    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    I’ll just say I enjoyed reading the conversation. Not sure how I feel about sex crossing boundaries. I would think it’s similar to doing drugs recreationally…in a very controlled way perhaps you can get your rocks off with a drug or a woman, but you may be playing with fire so one should exercise extreme caution. Maybe careful random hookups are like smoking weed but FWB situations are like using harder drugs…perhaps waters reserved for the older and wiser MGTOWs.

  17. #37
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    To truly Go Your Own Way (with regards females) one has to cut the influence of women from one’s life as far as possible.

    FWB eliminates the possibility of this.
    FWB can in principle can be achieved and still be MGTOW. It's just sex. Most people can't do it, but I believe it is achievable. Attraction is low, need for human intimacy is high.

    Don't start thinking with the wrong head, and protect yourself.

  18. #38
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    Re: Where are all the mgtow men gone?

    oops


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