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  1. #1
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    What's in it for me?

    I posted this thread for inspection and clarification of the "what's in it for me?" mindset to extrapolate its true meaning and most important, VALUE.

    Who has this mindset and which version do they, we, I, or you possess?

    Do you possess its narcissistic version or it's humility version?

    I'll explain simply by rephrasing it to it's kinder, gentler, and warmer side.

    The humble person asks?; "what am I in for?" meaning pragmatic assessments to avoid casting ones pears before the swine, and that I believe is the "what's in it for me" version most MGTOW possess, a cautionary yet optimistic approach to one's path in life and personal desire to avoid hardships with unnecessary and undue suffering.

    In the most sinister version; the sociopathic narcissist asks "what's in it for me", the way a shark smells blood in the water.



    Which "what's in it for me" version do you believe you follow in the annex and context of MGTOW, and which side of the line do you stand on, and where does one draw that line?

    I'll admit I've crossed the line of selfishness many times, however each time motivated by the cannibalistic nature of my surroundings and the suffering of losses in such an environment.

    Think about it, lemme know what you think? Personally, I'm tired of being considered "selfish" for a cautionary approach to the most wild of the wild animals, the human animal, but under social laws and constructs that oppress thee, relegating ye under the weaker of the species.
    Last edited by mgtower; August 1, 2021 at 1:58 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Personally, I'm tired of being considered "selfish"
    I'll add one thing to that. When people consider you selfish, or call you selfish... and ESPECIALLY if they call you "selfish like a woman", that is a very humorous irony.

    Because that is a virtue signal. They have nothing to counter your argument with, so they have to throw mud at you. THAT is what women do, virtue signal.

    If something is not virtue signal, then it will be aimed at tactical and strategic analysis of the argument, not the "moral analysis" of the source of the argument. So if someone tries to virtue signal me, man or woman or child or dog, I'll tell them the ONLY virtue I care about is winning. So unless they want to appeal to that virtue, they are barking up the REALLY wrong tree.
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

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    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    I'll add one thing to that. When people consider you selfish, or call you selfish... and ESPECIALLY if they call you "selfish like a woman", that is a very humorous irony.

    Because that is a virtue signal. They have nothing to counter your argument with, so they have to throw mud at you. THAT is what women do, virtue signal.

    If something is not virtue signal, then it will be aimed at tactical and strategic analysis of the argument, not the "moral analysis" of the source of the argument. So if someone tries to virtue signal me, man or woman or child or dog, I'll tell them the ONLY virtue I care about is winning. So unless they want to appeal to that virtue, they are barking up the REALLY wrong tree.
    What's wrong that? I'll add this, "win win", all my successful and long time personal and business relationships are based in win win, there's plenty to go around if you're willing to share with the right people (not casting your pearls before the swine).

    I found by giving the shirt off my back to the wrong people, they take the flesh to go with it!

    I'm keenly aware of why the line of scrimmage is in different places among all men, and no way in hell would I shame or blame any man that rolled up his carpet of kindness then laid out a bed of spikes. Who knows what life altering fuckery a man has been through in a world where fuckery is considered normal ordinary everyday business. I guess allot of things depend on ones cognitive abilities to see the week minded people that can't grasp the concept of individualism.

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    Re: What's in it for me?

    TBH, I rarely think in this way, at least not on a conscious level.

    When it does come to fore, however, is when someone asks something of me. It may be a loan of money or property, something that requires my time in intellectual research, or something that requires my time and physical effort.

    When it comes to “What’s in it for me?” it kind of depends on the situation.

    If someone is prepared to pay me financially for my efforts, then the question becomes one of: “Are they offering to pay enough or are they treating me like a sucker?” You can probably guess my reaction if it’s the latter: A huge “GO FUCK YOURSELF!”

    But sometimes the payoff is less tangible.

    Say, an acquaintance is asking for help. There are two questions I will ask myself in this case:

    First is: “Do I think enough of this person to want to help them or are they a scumbag that doesn’t deserve my help?”

    If they pass this test then the question becomes one of: “Does this person have the concept of a return spring?”

    When it comes to loans of money: are they the type to return it promptly when agreed to? (I always stipulate a time frame) If I cannot answer yes to this then they can go fish somewhere else. But what if I am mistaken in my belief? For this reason I never loan money that I can’t afford to see again.

    I do have one exception to this rule:

    If it’s a small amount of money, say €20, I may deem this a necessary risk to find out just what kind of person they are. If it doesn’t get repaid promptly, or at all, then I know to have nothing further to do with them in any way shape or form. From my perspective this can be a small price to pay to quickly find out someone’s character, especially if I have no choice about coming in to contact with them.

    When it comes to property, say tools, I am VERY wary. I have lost too many tools this way. When they aren’t returned not only are you out the expense of replacing it, you’re out the expense of the job at hand when you suddenly realise you no longer have it. Also, even when they are returned they are often not returned in good condition. As a rule, I don’t loan tools.

    If I ever borrow (rarely) another’s property my priorities are to return it when stated in at least as good a condition as I received it, if not better as a simple “thank you”. Few people in my experience have this attitude.

    The other part of the “return spring” concept is: “If the situation was reversed and I was asking something of them, would they do for me as they are asking me to do for them?” If I don’t believe they would, then they’re getting squat from me.

    So yes, I do occasionally get called selfish. As rkspsm says it’s virtue signalling, sometimes meant as a manipulation in the hope of getting you to change your mind, sometimes as a simple insult because they failed to take advantage of you. Another reason to avoid them in the future.

    The only time I’ll accept being called selfish is if it comes in the form of banter from a friend after relating a story, for example:

    Him: “Fuck you, you could have helped him ya selfish bastard!”

    Me: “Fuck you too. If you care so much go help him yourself!”

    Him: “Er, no. Do you think I’m mad?”

    Me: “I don’t think you’re mad, I KNOW you’re fucking mad! Now go get the next round in.”

    To me, this is not selfishness, it’s just common sense. There will be the odd time I’ll do for others without looking for recompense, say throwing a few bob to a down-and-out if I can afford it, or if it takes little effort on my part – it can be a good and easy way to build a friendship, but only if I offer and not if I’m asked.

  5. #5
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    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    TBH, I rarely think in this way, at least not on a conscious level.

    When it does come to fore, however, is when someone asks something of me. It may be a loan of money or property, something that requires my time in intellectual research, or something that requires my time and physical effort.

    When it comes to “What’s in it for me?” it kind of depends on the situation.

    If someone is prepared to pay me financially for my efforts, then the question becomes one of: “Are they offering to pay enough or are they treating me like a sucker?” You can probably guess my reaction if it’s the latter: A huge “GO FUCK YOURSELF!”

    But sometimes the payoff is less tangible.

    Say, an acquaintance is asking for help. There are two questions I will ask myself in this case:

    First is: “Do I think enough of this person to want to help them or are they a scumbag that doesn’t deserve my help?”

    If they pass this test then the question becomes one of: “Does this person have the concept of a return spring?”

    When it comes to loans of money: are they the type to return it promptly when agreed to? (I always stipulate a time frame) If I cannot answer yes to this then they can go fish somewhere else. But what if I am mistaken in my belief? For this reason I never loan money that I can’t afford to see again.

    I do have one exception to this rule:

    If it’s a small amount of money, say €20, I may deem this a necessary risk to find out just what kind of person they are. If it doesn’t get repaid promptly, or at all, then I know to have nothing further to do with them in any way shape or form. From my perspective this can be a small price to pay to quickly find out someone’s character, especially if I have no choice about coming in to contact with them.

    When it comes to property, say tools, I am VERY wary. I have lost too many tools this way. When they aren’t returned not only are you out the expense of replacing it, you’re out the expense of the job at hand when you suddenly realise you no longer have it. Also, even when they are returned they are often not returned in good condition. As a rule, I don’t loan tools.

    If I ever borrow (rarely) another’s property my priorities are to return it when stated in at least as good a condition as I received it, if not better as a simple “thank you”. Few people in my experience have this attitude.

    The other part of the “return spring” concept is: “If the situation was reversed and I was asking something of them, would they do for me as they are asking me to do for them?” If I don’t believe they would, then they’re getting squat from me.

    So yes, I do occasionally get called selfish. As rkspsm says it’s virtue signalling, sometimes meant as a manipulation in the hope of getting you to change your mind, sometimes as a simple insult because they failed to take advantage of you. Another reason to avoid them in the future.

    The only time I’ll accept being called selfish is if it comes in the form of banter from a friend after relating a story, for example:

    Him: “Fuck you, you could have helped him ya selfish bastard!”

    Me: “Fuck you too. If you care so much go help him yourself!”

    Him: “Er, no. Do you think I’m mad?”

    Me: “I don’t think you’re mad, I KNOW you’re fucking mad! Now go get the next round in.”

    To me, this is not selfishness, it’s just common sense. There will be the odd time I’ll do for others without looking for recompense, say throwing a few bob to a down-and-out if I can afford it, or if it takes little effort on my part – it can be a good and easy way to build a friendship, but only if I offer and not if I’m asked.
    LOL! I've purchased countless scoundrels and assholes for $5, $10, $15, and $20 dollars!

    My cheapest purchase was an employee that wouldn't lend me a dime to make a phone call to line up another job! We were 50 miles away from home before cell phones. (10 cent reverse purchased), after that I had no more work for him! I/We my brother and I, used to advance him money time to time before payday. Un fkn believable!

    Jack, we feel the same way about tools, however, I do have friends with tools and among us we can do just about anything as each has specialized equipment to varying degrees, expensive stuff costing 10's of thousands of dollars, it's nice to have an armada of equipment, you can't just go out and rent a dump truck and excavator willy-nilly.

  6. #6
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    I'll add this, "win win", all my successful and long time personal and business relationships are based in win win, there's plenty to go around if you're willing to share with the right people (not casting your pearls before the swine).
    Exactly. This is what I meant by appealing to winning as virtue. A beneficial trade for both sides. Trade can be goods, services, ideas, anything the receiver values and needs. If the trade is not beneficial, then no point carrying it through.

    The only other thing is, about DISCOVERING a good trade. If some group keeps giving me bad trades (women for example), then no trading with them, that is, switching to prejudice mode against that group. After that point, if anybody from that group wants to open trade, the task of proving that they can be beneficial is UPON them. And I can still refuse if I feel its not sufficient, and I dont need to give any reason. Both parties have the right to refuse trade, without giving any reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    throwing a few bob to a down-and-out if I can afford it
    I remember hiring one rickshaw several years back. I am talking about bicycle rickshaw, not the motorized ones. They look something like this :




    The dude who was pulling it (we call them puller instead of driver) was a very old man. And the distance was quite significant, but I needed to travel that regularly. The price was something around Rs. 40 (Rs = Indian Rupee, INR). Usually they tried to haggle and asked for Rs. 50. I didnt mind, I used to give them, after all they did hard work.

    This old dude, he asked for Rs. 30 !! I told him that the standard rate is Rs. 40, and others ask for Rs. 50. I paid him, if I remember correctly, Rs. 70 probably, just as a gift, for being honest and hard worker. The extra money I paid to him, I definitely didnt get anything in return. He wont be my friend or anything, in fact its very unlikely we would've remembered each other's faces after a few days.

    BUT

    It was an incentive to a person of my society for being honest. If honest people are incentivized, they are the ones who carry the society forward, with their sweat and blood. So I do get something, something very indirectly, very small, maybe even just potentially speaking, but its still worth it. I dont mind paying for that.

    Sadly, in current society, everything opposite happens. Dishonesty is incentivized, laziness is incentivized, in the name of "anything to win". That is not winning, that is being a retard. If someone pulls society down in the name of "winning", he is also going to feel it. And people have started to feel that a lot, all over the god damned world, right now. And many of these "winners" dont even need society to bring them down, they do it themselves. There is one super rich neighbor with that kind of mentality I have. Yeah he got money, a lot more than me. But he also got diabetes, morbid obesity, stent in heart, and several other things I dont know (or care). He barely survived in a recent hospitalization because of covid. So much for "winning".
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Joetech's Avatar
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    Re: What's in it for me?

    With women the answer to "what's in it for me" is "everything"! That's what they end up with if you're stupid enough (like I was) to marry one. For a man, "what's in it for me" is what he should ask himself before marrying. To find out, he should sit in on family court cases at the courthouse for a week. Then, re-evaluate.

    What's in it for me becomes a whole new question. No one is selfish because they pamper themselves and take care of themselves. The selfish ones are the ones looking through your window at your living room furniture asking, "What's in it for me?"
    "Don't follow in my footsteps. I stepped in something."

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    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Jack, we feel the same way about tools, however, I do have friends with tools and among us we can do just about anything
    I have one friend, repeat ONE, that has the same opinion as me and I would never hesitate to loan him anything.

    But, in my experience these people are rare.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: What's in it for me?

    Great thread!
    I think most people dont get to the "what is in it for me? " question. Unfortunately...

    They get stuck in notions of "duty", "doing the right thing", "what will people think", and many other ways people are manipulated into disregarding themselves from the time they were born.

    Then there is the small head doing all the "thinking", or maybe in this case we should call it "simping", as if sex is going to happen if you stay near a woman long enough.

    It takes some effort (or pain) to discard the social indoctrination and see it for what it is: a ploy to take advantage of you.

    When you get to the "whats in it for me" stage, you are already a free man.

  10. #10

    Re: What's in it for me?

    Women naturally are not selfish.... to everyone.

    As a mate or adult male, yes, she is naturally selfish to you. Female nature says she looks to you, the male, for the protector and provider role that will elevate her status in society. She will take what ever you offer and still want more. A sister or aunt etc. may also display these traits.

    To her children, grandchildren etc she will naturally nurture them, (if she's not bat shit crazy). She will be generous to them most of the time. If she has no children she may pick a close friend's children, relation's children or maybe a pets, (The cat lady)....

    Story Time: A few years ago I visited my mother, it had been 20yrs since I last seen her. I still own a empty block of land beside her house that is now being used by her to drain water from the house. She wants to gift her house to her grandson but can not because her house is depended on my block. She strongly suggested that I gift my block to her so she could gift it and the house to her grandson. (Now you know why it took me 20yrs to visit...) I have no plans on using that block, I have no children and I think both house and block should stay together. I do not have the nurturing female nature for my nephew that she has for him... Value of block estimated $70k? I've owned it for 30+yrs and still own it.

  11. #11
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    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyNuts View Post
    Women naturally are not selfish.... to everyone.

    As a mate or adult male, yes, she is naturally selfish to you. Female nature says she looks to you, the male, for the protector and provider role that will elevate her status in society. She will take what ever you offer and still want more. A sister or aunt etc. may also display these traits.

    To her children, grandchildren etc she will naturally nurture them, (if she's not bat shit crazy). She will be generous to them most of the time. If she has no children she may pick a close friend's children, relation's children or maybe a pets, (The cat lady)....

    Story Time: A few years ago I visited my mother, it had been 20yrs since I last seen her. I still own a empty block of land beside her house that is now being used by her to drain water from the house. She wants to gift her house to her grandson but can not because her house is depended on my block. She strongly suggested that I gift my block to her so she could gift it and the house to her grandson. (Now you know why it took me 20yrs to visit...) I have no plans on using that block, I have no children and I think both house and block should stay together. I do not have the nurturing female nature for my nephew that she has for him... Value of block estimated $70k? I've owned it for 30+yrs and still own it.
    Women are complex beings to be sure, but I’m not sure about this first line. It definitely hasn’t been my experience.

    What about friend-zoning, extracting what they can with no payback?

    When it comes to kids yes they can appear to be generous, but are they really? With their own kids it can be a control mechanism, or to put it another way, bribery to do something or a reward for acting the way she says. When this doesn’t apply it can be a guilt mechanism, a way of atoning for being too harsh.

    When her kids grow up though and she loses control these acts of “generosity” soon disappear.

    As for other’s kids, it can be a way to ingratiate themselves with their parents, or a way to lure in a sucker – “See, I’m generous to others so you should be too. You should be generous to me!” They still gain something so it isn’t selflessness.

    I’m not saying AWALT, but this is how I’ve often seen this behaviour.

    But yes they can be generous, with other people’s money / property / time as your own story tells. It's still about control.

  12. #12
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    Re: What's in it for me?

    What's in it for me?

    On the one hand, I can be legally inseparable by enjoinment to a woman where my legal status becomes married and later divorced but never to be classified "legally" as "single" ever again, you can't go back, the dungeon door closes forever.

    Enjoinment can haunt a man literally to death, because when he legally enjoins to a women he surrenders all his natural rights, including reproductive, child custody, exclusive sex, home dominion, and many other natural rights, he can't even stop her from having sex with chad in his bedroom with him watching the kids! He's dragged through a living hell not constituted or agreed upon in the "sworn" contract of marriage, but not the "license he signed", that's separate and subject to divorce law and the meatgrinder of divorce court.

    On the other hand, a man that's single, not cohabiting, and not in any sort of intimate relationship with a woman, is free to roam the green plush pastures of natural law where he's king of his home, where his law rules and he's not held liable for a failed marriage and a woman's wellbeing at the sacrifice of his.

    Nope, not gonna happen to me, the single man has full autonomy over every aspect of his life, whereas the divorce raped man has none, zilch, zero, nada!

    Then compare the two any moment in time and see what each man is doing and how happy are they with their lives?

    One man's paying for the benefit of a marital traitor that turned vicious unleashing the hounds of injustice to devour him, and the other guy "me" was up and down I-80 hitting everything from Vail to Aspen, and further west to Utah, and spending year after year in Ski houses with snowmobiles up and down Rte. 100 Vermont. What's to be angry and hurt about? I'm the one that got away!

    Oh yea, I'm just heart broken, full of pain and suffering because I can't let go of the pain, and hate women for the laws that govern their nature and give them this rule of law and order?<sarc/offf> No, not me, I'm not the one enslaved to a life of misery and servitude! When you go your own way, you're a new creature, the past washes away as your life unfolds before you, like walking through a door and going outside for the first time, you never want to return to that cage once you're free.

    Thank god for female empowerment to their ruthless entitlements, it made life's options much easier to choose, It's a choice "you make", dive into the volcano, or ski its slopes!


  13. #13

    Re: What's in it for me?

    to me it seems you're talking about a few things in life, OP. Regarding things I own. I have come to realize I actually don't "own" anything. Except perhaps time. But all my worldly possessions have got nothing to do with me. Why? Because everything can and will be taken away from me. Between now and my death. My money, house, job, clothes, roles and my life. It's not to sound gloomy but stating a fact. It helped me very much to let go of anxiety and stress. Sure I enjoy my house and other "possessions" for as long as they last. Letting go is absolutely no trouble for me at all anymore.
    As your "what's in it for me?" question. That's actually very interesting. As I understand your words, it seems to me you're still projecting on how others might think of you as being important. IMO that's also a huge energy waste. Other people's opinion have got nothing to do with me either. All those people will come and go in my life. And we have been given free will. So I know there are people who love me, like me or hate/ despise me. Most of the other people are neutral with me. and the same is v.v. With the "what's in it for me?" question I actually see the ability to say yes or no to all situations. My "trick" is not to say yes or no right away but process the question first. F.e. "Can you help me move this weekend?" I'll take a few minutes to see if I want that and have time for that. If the answer is no, I'll just say "no" without explanation. Regarding the trust issue with "what's in it for me?" My mindset is "I give people the opportunity to betray me." Within reason I trust people from the get go. OC I won't give anyone my wallet with money in it who I never seen before. Like I said: within reason. And yes: this has burned me quite a few times. The challenge, to me, was to introspect and not get furious to the other. That's a waste of energy as well. The thing is: I chose to trust that person and he/she betrayed that trust. I can't blame anyone for making that choice. So I get past by that quickly, waste no energy on the matter and chose never to trust them again.
    What "society" thinks of me? I am honestly totally indifferent to that. I don't need society and I hide in plane sight in it. "Society" is just a tiny layer of fools gold over basic human instincts anyway.

  14. #14
    Junior Member jxpqvb's Avatar
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    Re: What's in it for me?

    If there isn't anything in it for me then I'm done with it. I'm done giving af about society's bullshit. I love being alone, working hard, lifting weights and generally doing wtf I want to and only what I want to.

    Trying to be a good person according to society got me married to a bulimic shrink. You dont know cruelty until you tangle with a high energy nutcase that can't take no for an answer.

    Take the whole having kids thing. What's in it for me? Don't farm or hunt so there's no economic incentive. I don't do any of the things involved in raising kids voluntarily which means I don't particularly want to. Wtf good does a randomly sampled copy of half my genes do for me? Fuck posterity, when I'm dead I can't give af. Just more disney illusions to control us.

  15. #15

    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    I posted this thread for inspection and clarification of the "what's in it for me?" mindset to extrapolate its true meaning and most important, VALUE.

    Who has this mindset and which version do they, we, I, or you possess?

    Do you possess its narcissistic version or it's humility version?
    From what I have seen in real life, most people who meet the commonly accepted definition of being 'highly successful' (a master in their field, an owner of a thriving business, commanding enormous amounts of respect/prestige/power, have amassed a lot of cash) display a higher than average level of narcissism. Note that I'm not talking about 'narcissistic personality disorder', but simply a very high opinion of oneself and their abilities. While it's understandable that someone who has accomplished something amazing would have a high opinion of themselves, usually their high self-esteem precedes their accomplishments.

    They generally have very high self esteem and believe that they have something special to offer the world. They have the attitude that they are 'better' than their peers, and they have a sense of entitlement. It's just a matter of how they satisfy this sense of entitlement. People who have a high opinion of themselves and become successful usually elevate themselves to a position where they can leverage their abilities/knowledge to get what they feel they deserve. Unsuccessful ones just steal things or expect handouts.

    The notion of 'What's in it for me." isn't selfish IMHO, it's just having a healthy self-esteem and taking personal responsibility. You need to value your wants and desires, and also take personality responsibility for satisfying them (once you are an adult).

  16. #16
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by thenamelessone View Post
    From what I have seen in real life, most people who meet the commonly accepted definition of being 'highly successful' (a master in their field, an owner of a thriving business, commanding enormous amounts of respect/prestige/power, have amassed a lot of cash) display a higher than average level of narcissism. Note that I'm not talking about 'narcissistic personality disorder', but simply a very high opinion of oneself and their abilities. While it's understandable that someone who has accomplished something amazing would have a high opinion of themselves, usually their high self-esteem precedes their accomplishments.

    They generally have very high self esteem and believe that they have something special to offer the world. They have the attitude that they are 'better' than their peers, and they have a sense of entitlement. It's just a matter of how they satisfy this sense of entitlement. People who have a high opinion of themselves and become successful usually elevate themselves to a position where they can leverage their abilities/knowledge to get what they feel they deserve. Unsuccessful ones just steal things or expect handouts.

    The notion of 'What's in it for me." isn't selfish IMHO, it's just having a healthy self-esteem and taking personal responsibility. You need to value your wants and desires, and also take personality responsibility for satisfying them (once you are an adult).
    I believe we have been programmed to believe that self-esteem lies in those achievements you mention above. I don't think self-esteem, which is really a happiness with oneself, is directly related to those things, only partially.

    It goes like this: person feels like a loser and then builds himself up in many ways because he thinks that'll make him feel better about himself (due to how others see him). So he achieves it and he feels better about himself. Or so he thinks...

    But actually it's not always real. That's because it was all based upon what I believe is a faulty assumption, which was really related to how others would perceive him.

    Becoming successful in any respect can build your self-esteem but it has to be genuine. Those millionaires who have everything but are suicidal? Not genuine.

    Then there are people who see through it all and know they are enough, and have true self-esteem and happiness regardless of their outward success or standing. This idea doesn't hold much sway in western circles who are mostly indoctrinated by the standard model of success (have more, impress others).

    To address the OP:
    I agree that a healthy amount of putting oneself first is essential. What I was really getting at in my post which presumably precipitated yours, is when a person doesn't want to give unless he can see the benefit. This in un-spiritual, unkind, and ignores karma. The more you give, the more you receive. There are some people stuck with a smouldering fire because they refuse to add any more kindling.
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
    Follower of Christ.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


  17. #17
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    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    It's a choice "you make", dive into the volcano, or ski its slopes!
    Holy cow man, that picture is incredible.

  18. #18

    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Do you possess its narcissistic version or it's humility version?

    The humble person asks?; "what am I in for?" meaning pragmatic assessments to avoid casting ones pears before the swine, and that I believe is the "what's in it for me" version most MGTOW possess, a cautionary yet optimistic approach to one's path in life and personal desire to avoid hardships with unnecessary and undue suffering.

    In the most sinister version; the sociopathic narcissist asks "what's in it for me", the way a shark smells blood in the water.


    Which "what's in it for me" version do you believe you follow in the annex and context of MGTOW, and which side of the line do you stand on, and where does one draw that line?
    Well, usually the "humble" version. To me, that is just ordinary, rational concern with self-interest. Nothing wrong with that. It's the self-protective wing of self-care. People who lack self-care/self-protection/self-interest are in for a heap of trouble.

    You can take it too far, like anything else. You can get into paranoia or an unjustified mistrust of others/situations. It can also shade into fearful avoidance of any risk. There have been times in my life when I've been like that (overly fearful, mistrustful, unwilling to take risk), but I think I've mostly grown out of that, and that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about rational self-interest.

    I think there have been times when I've strayed into the more narcissistic-sociopathic version, true "selfishness" in the negative sense. I would characterize that as times when I don't give a shit about how my actions affect other people, and I only take my own egotistical perspective into account. I have no wider view than "what's in it for me" -- and by "me" here, I mean little me (vs. the me that has a wider, deeper view).

    But yes, I have definitely been in the narcissistic position in the past. I'd say I was that was for a good portion of my 20s. I'm 59 now and rarely slip into that. If I get really pissed off and frustrated, that's when it will happen. My higher centers get hijacked by the emotion, and I revert to more primitive thinking. But it's fleeting.
    Last edited by Eddie Haskell; August 21, 2021 at 1:49 PM.

  19. #19

    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    I'll add one thing to that. When people consider you selfish, or call you selfish... and ESPECIALLY if they call you "selfish like a woman", that is a very humorous irony.

    Because that is a virtue signal. They have nothing to counter your argument with, so they have to throw mud at you. THAT is what women do, virtue signal.
    True. And here's another irony. When people accuse you of being selfish, what they usually mean is, "You are not doing what I selfishly want you to do."

  20. #20
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    Re: What's in it for me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell View Post
    True. And here's another irony. When people accuse you of being selfish, what they usually mean is, "You are not doing what I selfishly want you to do."
    Whereas the "unselfish" know who's selfish, and won't waste the time or breath excoriating them for the selfish things they do, we realize narcissism is a progressive disease so we quarantine them instead.
    Correcting them is like trying to get a rock to float!


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