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  1. #21
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by African-Daoist View Post
    I prefer this classification but my major grouse was that every mention of alpha inherently tends to view things from the perspective of what women find attractive.

    The truth is, those traits if decoupled from sexuality, can be found in men in every domain. From academia to the military and yet he might still be considered beta by his wife, even if he's an alpha soldier with the medals to prove it.The whole standard being based on how women perceive or interact with the men, is my whole basis for regarding it as a product of the sick times that produced it. It is based in fantasy not reality . A woman's estimate of a man is based on his utility plain and simple; this has nothing to do with how he's able to get to that position.


    I think I prefer Jordan Petersons explanation of alpha. Dominance heirarchies he called them, not of power per se but of competence. Looking that it that way, you see that except you want to specifically use interaction with women as a yardstick, thee are a lot of alphas in different domains. Most times people conserve mental energy to pursue things they regard as of paramount importance, while being mediocre in other domains. That's the cost of civilisation. No one in his right mind would ask the buff, decorated military veteran for ideas on curbing a pandemic but neither would you want the research scientist on the battle field, we seem to hae forgotten this distinction as a specie.

    Cheers
    Yes, women will always have influence on the 'market value' of a man, regardless of which market the man wishes to trade in. One dude may not be interested in women at all, but then he might be marketing some other set of skills to other men who value women, thus getting affected by women indirectly.

    So yeah, using the word 'alpha/beta' in any classification, if it puts some guy in the beta category, who otherwise thinks himself of alpha, will upset him. He will instinctively feel that this classification is degrading his market value. If you try to degrade market value for anyone, in ANY market, it is very likely that the person is not going to find it very pleasant.

    But for any classification, I am also interested in the market value for the classification itself, for the purpose of being a tool/utility to aid in analyzing any individual or group of people. We know from evidence from our own experience and from all the sources of knowledge we have, that there are way more than just two kinds of people. So if a classification is only producing two groups of people, there is eventually a very hard limit to what you can utilize the classification itself for any purpose. Its same as trying to encode a large information using only one on/off bit. There is just not enough memory in the 'classification system'.

    Even if you just use High/Low state for each dimension in classification (as opposed to a numeric value), the Briggs-Meyer has 4 such dimensions, resulting in 16 types of people. The Big-5 Personality Traits, has 5, which means 32 different types of people. That is way more accommodating of the variety we find in humans and thus can be better used to find the individual specific strategies once the individual is properly classified. Of course, this will come at the cost that the classification will be more complex. One can write a classification with a hundred dimensions, say one dimension can be if the person likes pizza or not, lol. This hypothetical one will be so ridiculously complex that nobody will be able to use it for anything whatsoever.

    From what I know, 4 or 5 dimensions so far seem to give a good tradeoff between complexity and utility. Anything lower, it tends to get too simplistic, anything higher, it tends to get too complex.
    Last edited by rkspsm; June 9, 2021 at 7:35 AM.
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

  2. #22
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?



    Peterson is an agent of (them). That means he will never make you more red pilled than you are now, only less.
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
    Follower of Christ.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


  3. #23

    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by happybachelor View Post


    Peterson is an agent of (them). That means he will never make you more red pilled than you are now, only less.
    To be honest I don't have enough evidence to either concur or refute your position but I know he has some good ideas. Because I quote someone does not necessarily mean I am a disciple . I tend to quote Neitszche a lot but I wouldn't go so far as to say I am his disciple, even though I agree with a large portion of his work. Same goes for Peterson; I try to judge an idea not by it's proponent but by how much sense it makes to me .


    @rkspsm

    I don't really know if this conundrum can be resolved as by your admission, women must be a part of what makes the definition of an alpha valid, hence I think we have reached an impasse, as I can think of no more fickle and shifting criteria than the opinion of women as regards what they find attractive.But if we remove the whole notion of sexual attraction and look at it merely from the standpoint of survival, doesn't it become clear that a man who has the specific traits or resources to maximize a woman's survival and also provide comfort is what is deemed as attractive ? Men just look at a woman and want to fuck, a simple calculus if there is even any involved.

    A woman only wants to fuck a man who can provide some value to her, an average man regards the value a woman provides as her sexual attractiveness, very few women would pass up a rich ugly man for a poor stud. If she could get away with it, she'd cheat of course, but if her hand is forced, nine out of ten times she picks the rich guy.



    All that circling around was simply to point out that a lot the attraction that women feel towards men is not sexual per se . Of course there might be a physiological response but it's more tied to her own interpretation than to his inherent sexual desirability. A quote by Henry Kissinger, "power is the best aphrodisiac", lends clarity to my point.


    Some of the most desireable women in the world have very iffy looking spouses. Isn't that an indication of a different criteria ?

    Any way to conclude, it's not that with or without women men wouldn't pursue these goals, but the kind of men that pursue goals simply so some woman can approve of them is probably more likely in the beta group but with or without the approval of women, these goals would still be a necessity.


    People like to claim that men built civilization for women, but that's just the same old half truths that men use to inflate women's egos. War built civilization is a more accurate perspective in my opinion.At the very bare minimum, the desire to survive. Luxury has blinded us to this reality .

    Cheers

  4. #24
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    To be honest I don't have enough evidence to either concur or refute your position but I know he has some good ideas. Because I quote someone does not necessarily mean I am a disciple . I tend to quote Neitszche a lot but I wouldn't go so far as to say I am his disciple, even though I agree with a large portion of his work. Same goes for Peterson; I try to judge an idea not by it's proponent but by how much sense it makes to me .
    I would say you are not aware of what he is, and if you were you would not be able to trust anything he says. But fair enough.

    I don't really know if this conundrum can be resolved as by your admission, women must be a part of what makes the definition of an alpha valid, hence I think we have reached an impasse, as I can think of no more fickle and shifting criteria than the opinion of women as regards what they find attractive.But if we remove the whole notion of sexual attraction and look at it merely from the standpoint of survival, doesn't it become clear that a man who has the specific traits or resources to maximize a woman's survival and also provide comfort is what is deemed as attractive ? Men just look at a woman and want to fuck, a simple calculus if there is even any involved.
    I don't agree with this. From a purely psychological standpoint, it is completely irrelevant 'what women think an alpha is'. Most women are clueless and easily led by pop psyche which gives us a false idea of what alpha is. As amateur psychologists, we are concerned with the concept, the idea - not the popular understanding of it. As accurate thinkers, we must elevate ourselves above the herd understanding of things, because that is very often faulty.

    Some of the most desireable women in the world have very iffy looking spouses. Isn't that an indication of a different criteria ?
    There are a few layers to this that you're missing. I highly recommend you watch Alex's video in full, and his others, to get a proper understanding. This is why I recommend this guy to people, he gives you the truth which is better than if you read 100 books which are wrong in their interpretation.
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
    Follower of Christ.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


  5. #25
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wombat View Post
    An alpha male is a man whom other men follow. This is what so much of the manosphere gets wrong: it isn't women that define alpha, it's men.
    I agree partly. In a SHTF you will see who the alphas are and the men will follow.
    But in a normal social setting, i.e. now, most men will not (be seen to) follow alphas. In fact most men will despise alphas, because he will usually be known as the disagreeable, arrogant one. The asshole. Especially by women. They will follow their pals, safety in numbers, rather than separating themselves from the herd. They will not want to make themselves a target by associating too much with an asshole.
    The alpha is not the guy who gets re invited to barbecues etc.
    I put (be seen to) in brackets because deep down these men look up to alphas, because the alpha stands alone and he will be envious of that warrior spirit, for it represents courage. But whether he shows this reverence to the world is another thing altogether, people have their own image to think about.
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
    Follower of Christ.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


  6. #26
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Alpha's are not intimidated by anything under any circumstance.

    Beta's are.
    Freedom is what people are willing to die for and what governments are willing to kill for.--- (Andrew Wilkow; Sirius-XM, the patriot channel 125)

  7. #27
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by African-Daoist View Post
    I don't really know if this conundrum can be resolved as by your admission, women must be a part of what makes the definition of an alpha valid, hence I think we have reached an impasse, as I can think of no more fickle and shifting criteria than the opinion of women as regards what they find attractive.
    I do think you misunderstood me in some aspects. I am not saying alpha's definition should involve women or not. I am essentially giving anybody, a free reign, to define alpha/beta HOWEVER he pleases, as long as the definition is coherent internally and doesnt contradicts itself. If one says that those who liked cheeseburger are alphas and rest of them are betas, and then uses it to do any analysis, then I will first look at that only. Its like in algebra. If you say a=2, b=3, then I will read rest of the equations with those values assigned to a and b. I wont complain that "no no no ! a must be greater than b !!".

    I will look at that classification, however that defined alpha/beta or whatever names he used, firstly from a pure utility point of view. Is that classification giving some good information ? Is the classification simple ? Is the classification has good coverage of all the varieties ? The way this guy classified A/B passed a lot of these criterias, so I assigned it as a good classification. If others want to define alpha/beta, they can do it, as long as, before mentioning alpha/beta, they clearly specify their definitions. This guy in video did !!! That is the primary thing that is making me respect him. Most people are using this term or that term here and there and cannot even define when ASKED. You can test it with the word "racism". It will warp their minds in space-time to properly define that word.

    Quote Originally Posted by African-Daoist View Post
    People like to claim that men built civilization for women, but that's just the same old half truths that men use to inflate women's egos. War built civilization is a more accurate perspective in my opinion. At the very bare minimum, the desire to survive. Luxury has blinded us to this reality.
    There is an impasse between us, but its not about alpha/beta's definition. Its about opinion. Wherever possible and makes sense, instead of "opinion", I prefer promissory analysis, an analysis which makes the following promise :

    "I promise that if you have the same information about the world which I have, based on the senses of sight, sound, touch, taste and smell, and any derivations from them and them only, then you will reach the same conclusion as mine."

    If you see carefully, just few more variations to that line and it can be used to testify in court or as a report in military. This is why, the sources I learned that from, call it testimonial truth or military reporting. I am still simplifying a lot here to not derail the thread, there is a lot more to it.

    That is not an opinion at all. In opinion you can mix your feelings, including but not limited to supernatural entities. I am NOT saying its wrong, its just that *I* am not trying to do it, unless I am saying something which is purely a personal preference, eg: the food I like. Regarding building civilization for war or women, I am just stating the conclusion of the analysis I know related to this, that yes, its war, but not with just other clans or tribes, but war against entropy as whole.
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

  8. #28
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    I do think you misunderstood me in some aspects. I am not saying alpha's definition should involve women or not. I am essentially giving anybody, a free reign, to define alpha/beta HOWEVER he pleases, as long as the definition is coherent internally and doesnt contradicts itself. If one says that those who liked cheeseburger are alphas and rest of them are betas, and then uses it to do any analysis, then I will first look at that only. Its like in algebra. If you say a=2, b=3, then I will read rest of the equations with those values assigned to a and b. I wont complain that "no no no ! a must be greater than b !!".

    I will look at that classification, however that defined alpha/beta or whatever names he used, firstly from a pure utility point of view. Is that classification giving some good information ? Is the classification simple ? Is the classification has good coverage of all the varieties ? The way this guy classified A/B passed a lot of these criterias, so I assigned it as a good classification. If others want to define alpha/beta, they can do it, as long as, before mentioning alpha/beta, they clearly specify their definitions. This guy in video did !!! That is the primary thing that is making me respect him. Most people are using this term or that term here and there and cannot even define when ASKED. You can test it with the word "racism". It will warp their minds in space-time to properly define that word.



    There is an impasse between us, but its not about alpha/beta's definition. Its about opinion. Wherever possible and makes sense, instead of "opinion", I prefer promissory analysis, an analysis which makes the following promise :

    "I promise that if you have the same information about the world which I have, based on the senses of sight, sound, touch, taste and smell, and any derivations from them and them only, then you will reach the same conclusion as mine."

    If you see carefully, just few more variations to that line and it can be used to testify in court or as a report in military. This is why, the sources I learned that from, call it testimonial truth or military reporting. I am still simplifying a lot here to not derail the thread, there is a lot more to it.

    That is not an opinion at all. In opinion you can mix your feelings, including but not limited to supernatural entities. I am NOT saying its wrong, its just that *I* am not trying to do it, unless I am saying something which is purely a personal preference, eg: the food I like. Regarding building civilization for war or women, I am just stating the conclusion of the analysis I know related to this, that yes, its war, but not with just other clans or tribes, but war against entropy as whole.
    You would have made one hell of a lawyer. Though I doubt you would enjoy that profession.
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
    Follower of Christ.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


  9. #29
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by happybachelor View Post
    You would have made one hell of a lawyer. Though I doubt you would enjoy that profession.
    Haha !! Yeah I would NEVER want to be IN that profession ! But some aspects of it do fascinate me, so I kindda enjoy it from the sidelines, and some things here and there I try to pickup.

    To any lawyer here or among lurkers who feel like saying that I dont know a single thing about it : "Yeah you are right !!! IANAL."
    Last edited by rkspsm; June 9, 2021 at 3:46 PM.
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    From what I've read, alphas are simply men with the highest natural testosterone levels, and their behavior differs quite a bit from what mainstream culture considers alpha.

    These men:
    • Talk less, smile less. Quiet, serious, observant, detached, relaxed, deep thinkers.
    • Choose their speaking opportunities and the people they interact with carefully.
    • Are introverted independent outsiders. Not a key member of any large social groups. Despite that, are generally well liked and respected.
    • Have a sense of stillness and stability around them.
    • Are extremely sensitive to status challenges. In other words, tolerate zero disrespect from anyone. This goes to subconscious levels: their heart rate immediately jumps when seeing an angry face, unlike women and men with lower T.
    • When challenged, will use body language, gaze and verbal commands to intimidate and assert dominance. Contrary to popular belief, violence is only a last resort.
    • Less trusting of and generous to strangers. More generous to their inner circle. You're either in or you're out.
    • Will take higher risks to acquire resources when they have none and lower risks with their existing resources. They don't chase wealth or status symbols but will make sure they have their back covered.
    • Physically, have large skulls, wide jaws, prominent brow ridges, big noses, small and deep-set eyes, wide shoulders, thick necks, more upper body muscle mass. Statistically they're more likely to win a fight, other things being equal.
    • Are in turn most attracted to women with the highest estrogen levels, which is to say, the most feminine and submissive women, and vice versa. The average shit testing thot wouldn't last long, she'd be immediately shut down and discarded for challenging his status.


    So if you imagine a real man's man, he's not the rich normie or smooth playboy or aggressive thug or loud social butterfly, even though all of these guys can come across as alpha and get women. He's the guy who doesn't care that much about socializing or controlling others but when he walks in the room, everyone knows who's boss. He's at the top without making an active effort.
    Last edited by I'm Gone; June 20, 2021 at 5:50 AM.

  11. #31
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Gone View Post
    ...but when he walks in the room, everyone knows who's boss. He's at the top without making an active effort.
    Isnt that a problem ? Not the alpha himself but the whole group ? Atleast there should've been some past demonstration of capability, even if its just leadership in that domain.

    I am going to be extremely cautious about the group. Just getting intimidated by body language and calmness and all that. Atleast I cannot imagine a single person in the world who I'll respect out of just that only.

    On the other hand, a scrawny little guy who has demonstrated incredible capability, he will have my respects, even if he stammers a little while talking.

    From what I have heard, groups of men with high T (entire group, just men, high T) AND HIGH IQ, you gotta earn your respect by COMPETING and DEMONSTRATING with either sweat, blood or wits, or some combination of that. They wont be giving you that for free.

    Competing + Demonstrating => Winning. The winner, gets the respects, or thats what I have heard, and myself follow.
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

  12. #32
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm Gone View Post
    From what I've read, alphas are simply men with the highest natural testosterone levels, and their behavior differs quite a bit from what mainstream culture considers alpha.

    These men:
    • Talk less, smile less. Quiet, serious, observant, detached, relaxed, deep thinkers.
    • Choose their speaking opportunities and the people they interact with carefully.
    • Are introverted independent outsiders. Not a key member of any large social groups. Despite that, are generally well liked and respected.
    • Have a sense of calmness and stability around them.
    • Are extremely sensitive to status challenges. In other words, tolerate zero disrespect from anyone. This goes to subconscious levels: their heart rate immediately jumps when seeing an angry face, unlike women and men with lower T.
    • When challenged, will use body language, gaze and verbal commands to intimidate and assert dominance. Contrary to popular belief, violence is only a last resort.
    • Less trusting of and generous to strangers. More generous to their inner circle. You're either in or you're out.
    • Will take higher risks to acquire resources when they have none and lower risks with their existing resources. They don't chase wealth or status symbols but will make sure they have their back covered.
    • Physically, have large skulls, wide jaws, protruding brow ridges, big noses, small and deep-set eyes, wide shoulders, thick necks, more upper body muscle mass. Statistically they're more likely to win a fight, other things being equal.
    • Are in turn most attracted to women with the highest estrogen levels, which is to say, the most feminine and submissive women, and vice versa. The average shit testing thot wouldn't last long, she'd be immediately shut down and discarded for challenging his status.


    So if you imagine a real man's man, he's not the rich normie or smooth playboy or aggressive thug or loud social butterfly, even though all of these guys can come across as alpha and get women. He's the guy who doesn't care that much about socializing or controlling others but when he walks in the room, everyone knows who's boss. He's at the top without making an active effort.
    Thank you. Physical description aside you just described me. Not too sure about the testosterone though (LOL)

    Being Alpha has little to nothing to do with how one sees oneself it’s about how others see you. It’s about respect and the ability to bond.

    Yes sometimes Alphas are seen as assholes in certain situations, but without respect they’re just assholes.

    Am I an Alpha? I don’t know and I don’t care. What I do know is that IRL when I speak about important matters of the day people listen – respect.

    When I enter a group of friends they go out of their way to greet me as I do with others, and when I accept a newbie into the group then everyone else seems to too – respect.

    Am I the centre of attention? Not by a long shot and I prefer it that way. I find it very tiring trying to hold court. I prefer to sit in the shadows having personal conversations with individuals although occasionally I do enjoy being in the spotlight. I have a very self-deprecating sense of humour that seems to go down well with others – bonding.

    When things get out of hand, people often look to me to bring things under control. Is this respect or is this that they simply prefer someone else to do the dirty work, my height and build giving me an advantage that they lack? Either way, on the rare occasion this happens I either gain respect or they see me as an interfering fuck. Maybe they’re one and the same.

    As for how women think about what makes an Alpha, all I know is I seem to get a lot of attention from them. Whether that’s to do with status amongst other guys (including those in high profile jobs like doctors, lawyers and even a judge or two), my self-confidence, my (usually) easy-going attitude, my height (over 6’), or simply that I’m available I don’t know. It certainly has nothing to do with wealth.

    What makes an Alpha?

    Other people!

  13. #33
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Thank you. Physical description aside you just described me. Not too sure about the testosterone though (LOL)

    Being Alpha has little to nothing to do with how one sees oneself it’s about how others see you. It’s about respect and the ability to bond.

    Yes sometimes Alphas are seen as assholes in certain situations, but without respect they’re just assholes.

    Am I an Alpha? I don’t know and I don’t care. What I do know is that IRL when I speak about important matters of the day people listen – respect.

    When I enter a group of friends they go out of their way to greet me as I do with others, and when I accept a newbie into the group then everyone else seems to too – respect.

    Am I the centre of attention? Not by a long shot and I prefer it that way. I find it very tiring trying to hold court. I prefer to sit in the shadows having personal conversations with individuals although occasionally I do enjoy being in the spotlight. I have a very self-deprecating sense of humour that seems to go down well with others – bonding.

    When things get out of hand, people often look to me to bring things under control. Is this respect or is this that they simply prefer someone else to do the dirty work, my height and build giving me an advantage that they lack? Either way, on the rare occasion this happens I either gain respect or they see me as an interfering fuck. Maybe they’re one and the same.

    As for how women think about what makes an Alpha, all I know is I seem to get a lot of attention from them. Whether that’s to do with status amongst other guys (including those in high profile jobs like doctors, lawyers and even a judge or two), my self-confidence, my (usually) easy-going attitude, my height (over 6’), or simply that I’m available I don’t know. It certainly has nothing to do with wealth.

    What makes an Alpha?

    Other people!
    If more MGTOW identify with this like you did, then it lends weight to my hypothesis that a lot of MGTOW are alpha.

    I reckon you probably never thought of yourself in this way? Understanding the types can lead to greater understanding/acceptance of yourself and your plight.

    It's funny how many 'ding' moments I got when learning about the types. Nearly every woman I was with pissed me off, to the point where I told them to fuck off. Now for many years I just assumed I was the problem/asshole. I had a problem committing. What is that BS thing they came up with.. attachment avoidant disorder? LOL. You see now how these are inventions to make ordinary (but undesirable) behaviour to them, pathological?

    Knowing my type, it makes sense that I have a visceral and violent response to bullshit/manipulation which I see as disrespect. To the point where I would rather be alone than suffer people's idiocy, yes even giving up on relationshits with very attractive women.

    I don't think a type B would so easily pull the plug. And one thing we must remember here is there's no judgement, this Alex might appear to mock the type B, but ultimately that's just a manifestation of his negative experiences with them - and there is some real hatred between the two types. You see later in the vid how he is not merely criticising and denigrating the type B, but empathising. There is room for everyone here, and I too empathise with men who deep down would rather be settled but who have been denied it.

    What matters to me is understanding. I am not the person to 'not go there' because it will upset people. I actually think we have to go to some places, cause the upset, then move forward with greater understanding and acceptance. I don't think avoiding taboos is smart, I think dealing with them is smart. This feels like my raison d'etre.
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
    Follower of Christ.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


  14. #34
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by happybachelor View Post
    I am not the person to 'not go there' because it will upset people. I actually think we have to go to some places, cause the upset, then move forward with greater understanding and acceptance.
    Its also important to take hard decisions, and sometimes teach other people to do that. I have a friend, who is a kind of people/managerial minded person. Many years ago (I think a decade ago), he started some project and was able to get a few investors to fund him. I was with him on the project, as a developer.

    A little tech background to understand the complication, there is no "one way" to develop software. There are several techniques and paradigms. Some are harder to learn but give more efficiency (more done with less coding) once you master them, others are not very efficient, or ridiculously inefficient, but also extremely easy to learn, and thus easier to recruit freshers out of college to work on them en masse.

    Now I being comfortable with efficient paradigms, wrote most of the software using those. Once the initial work was done, and software was working, the investor got more interested and we got some more investors to fund us. Well not "we", just my friend, I rarely talked to investors directly. But now there was one problem. The investors started getting nervous that we are relying on some tech which is "arcane" from their perspective. Which means, the employees (me being essentially their employee here), are non-fungible, non-replaceable. They started pressuring my friend to get the software rewritten in such a way that any newbie can easily work on that.

    That attitude is very normal. They want to protect their investment. Non-fungible employees are a risk. And any risk which can be mitigated, should be mitigated. But I was NOT interested in wasting my time rewriting what is already working out perfectly, using a newbie friendly technology which adds nothing to my experience, and waste even more time.

    And my friend was very worried, he knew me, I will never agree to waste that much time, and he understood my reasons perfectly. But still because he was caught between a rock and a hard place, he had to tell me that. I told him that his only option is to replace me (read: fire me), in a rather calm and nonchalant tone. He was surprised, and asked what about the software, its not possible to find newbies who can rewrite that, and the investors are not willing to spend money to find an expert. Finding an expert means spending 10-15x more money, and Indian being Indians, its very likely that the expert may not be that expert after all and just end up taking a few months of salary and running away. Too risky and too messy.

    I told him that its not my intention to create problems for him or leave him trapped. I told him that he find a bunch of newbies, I will then help him select some of them by interviewing them myself. And then I will train and assist them to rewrite the code. And then for some time I will be available should they face some difficult problem in subsequent days. The rewriting took like one month, and then for few months I had to occasionally help them fix bugs.

    But after that I was pretty much out from the project (you can say "fired", doesnt matter much). This friend developed huge respect for me. He knew that I cannot get upset from these. If firing me is a solution to a problem, then its better to just straight up talk about it to me rather than being coy and indirect.

    In later years, we worked on several other projects. He is now a millionaire ! And he tells me that in all these years of working in industry, meeting with people all over the world (he traveled a lot), I am the most rational person he has ever met by far. Now THAT, is a respect, from a CAPABLE person, a WINNER. I'd rather have respect from a small number of winners, than a large number of ... lets just say "not-winners".

    Currently there is another guy who I am working with, and he is on his way to millionaire status. I myself dont care about being millionaire or having a large status among large number of people. I have enough money and income to take care of my expenditures and I am good with that. I have a lot of time which I can re-invest into my own skills. That is the wealth more stable than money. It cannot be stolen or inflated. All these people I worked with, they are "alphas" in their group/company. I dont exist in their company directly, just their personal contact to get things done.

    In many classifications of masculine types, I fall into "Sigma" category which I tend to find more accurate than many Alpha descriptions, because those descriptions tend to give off a hint of things which I am not. I am not a soothe-sayer, or a faith-healer. I cannot comfort a distressed person, in fact I'll exacerbate their problem.
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

  15. #35
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    I cannot comfort a distressed person, in fact I'll exacerbate their problem.
    Lol! A very comical final line.

    Nothing cleans like bleach. Or petrol. But it's highly toxic!
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
    Follower of Christ.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


  16. #36
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by happybachelor View Post
    If more MGTOW identify with this like you did, then it lends weight to my hypothesis that a lot of MGTOW are alpha.
    There's nothing "alpha" about modern man running out from a cultural hay barn fire!

    Most of us bear the scars of others stampeding and climbing over us in their unethical efforts for survival!

    We're cultural mutts in the most vicious dogfight mankind has ever witnessed! The reason we loose in this cultural dogfight fight is from the legal muzzles and choker chains the law places on us as men.

    MGTOW is the biggest "oh yea, watch this motherfucker"... the gender was has ever seen! Muzzles and chokers are for the subordinate men that tolerate a despotic existence.

    We're the dogs that went wild and live far from the plantation, skittish, wary, and will attack when threatened.

    A million women can try to put the legal choker on MGTOW men, and get bitten one million times. We assail and assault their over inflated fragile egos as well as shame their ugly over inflated underworked bodies!

    We call out modern femininity for the 300 lb. Bitchy Butch broken man-mirror they've become! They're fucking nasty, inside and out! They make my skin crawl! EEWWW!

    Now they can ask themselves, how far away from commitment relationshits, and marriage, is a man that thinks like that^^^^^?

    There's so much artificial masculinity in modern women, coupled with law, that you're made the bitch in any relationshit, therefore it's worse than being GAY! At least with being gay, you have a shot at being the man!
    Freedom is what people are willing to die for and what governments are willing to kill for.--- (Andrew Wilkow; Sirius-XM, the patriot channel 125)

  17. #37
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    There's so much artificial masculinity in modern women, coupled with law, that you're made the bitch in any relationshit, therefore it's worse than being GAY! At least with being gay, you have a shot at being the man!

    Yes in the vid he explains that women are looking for another woman in a partner.

    We're the dogs that went wild and live far from the plantation, skittish, wary, and will attack when threatened.
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
    Follower of Christ.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


  18. #38
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Am I an Alpha?
    Quote Originally Posted by happybachelor View Post
    I reckon you probably never thought of yourself in this way?
    Youíre quite right here. I never did and still donít. Iíll explain why in a moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by happybachelor View Post
    Understanding the types can lead to greater understanding/acceptance of yourself and your plight.
    Possibly, if I didnít already understand myself and had a plight to address.


    As a young man entering out into the world for the first time I realised just how judgmental people can be. I decided there and then that if I was going to be judged, and I would be, I would be judged for who and what I am. If people didnít like me thatís O.K., Iíll just move on. I had no interest in being manipulated in to behaving in a particular way just to curry favour.

    But if people did like me I wanted them to like me for who I am, not for someone that is putting on a persona just to conform with their notions.

    IRL people that pretend to be something other than what they are are soon identified. They may be fun to be around for a while but you soon tire of the pretence. Itís difficult to respect anything they have to say on any subject because their whole life is built around deceit.

    I guess I was a natural born individual.


    So why donít I consider myself Alpha?

    Terms like Alpha / Beta (or type A and type B) are fine when talking in generalities, but IMO generalities should never be applied to the individual.

    Why?

    Because when you do so it can create false expectations of behaviour and this can, in turn, put you at a disadvantage Ė ďMan, I never saw that coming!!!Ē

    As for myself, there is the problem that if I adopt the notion of being an ďAlphaĒ or any other category then I may then try to ďlive up toĒ the definitions, definitions that are mainly supplied by, or at least understood by others. This goes against my own individuality and leaves me open to manipulation.

    How does this leave me open to manipulation?

    Because if Iím striving to be a particular personality type then all someone has to do is put me in a situation where that ďtypeĒ will behave in a particular way knowing just how Iíll react.

    This has occasionally been tried with me and they are typically dumbfounded when I round on them and tear strips off them.

    Of course there are also minor incidents in conversation with friends where theyíll say shit just to see my reaction. This usually results in my calling them a few choice names, our having a laugh about it and calling another round of drinks.

    Situation is everything.

  19. #39
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    You shouldn't be worried about being manipulated at your age.

    The trick is to see what is but not let it steer you too much.
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
    Follower of Christ.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


  20. #40
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    Re: What makes an alpha male?

    Quote Originally Posted by happybachelor View Post
    You shouldn't be worried about being manipulated at your age.
    Sorry, you’re right.

    Once you pass a certain age people stop trying to manipulate you.

    Sure you never hear of pensioners getting conned!

    (/sarc off )

    Truth be told though I don’t have much of a choice. I grew up in a very manipulative world and at this stage I can’t help but see it. It’s not something I can just switch off (nor would I want to).


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