Thread: What are your thoughts on therapy?

It's not something I've considered before as I wouldn't say I'm depressed. Many people swear by it. Would you say that there is much (if any) benefit to therapy in most cases or if it's more of a racket to make the insurance companies more money?

Its of some use but limited. I've tried it a couple of times:

1. Can help with observing your life and its patterns better.
2. Can help with some basic tools to deal with stress/anxiety/anger/etc better.
3. The benefit maxes out quickly for a few reasons:
   
   1. You can't talk about RP points;RP points are just reality. So you have to skirt around some personal issues as you can't give an honest description of your life's situation or problems.
   2. Its expensive and thus there's a limit to how much of it can be done.
   
   
4. It won't give a man the answers to his life's path or how to make the best use of his life. That has to come from elsewhere.

If going to therapy, its best to see a male therapist. Issues above still apply but not as severely.

Separately:

• A healthy mind requires practice. That practice can be many different things but it should be an activity that is for the mind. Meditation, journaling etc. The key is that whatever a man chooses pick, its like brushing his teeth. A man is never done with it, its something to do every day to stay healthy.
• It is good to always keep learning and always refining beliefs and habits to be the best version of who you want to be. We're lucky to live in an age where knowledge is more attainable than ever.

A lot of employers offer counseling services, I went twice for trouble with co-workers. The councilors I got meant well, but there wasn't really an answer for co-workers who don't want to get along.

But it didn't strike me as a scam, and nobody blamed me for anything the way they say marriage counselors do.

Street smarts coupled with knowledge about basic psychology and the determination to do what's necessary (quit adverse vices) will do more than any therapist ever could.

It's the individual and only the individual that has access to the levers, controls, and buttons to his or her own mind, and the single biggest responsibility we have to ourselves, otherwise it's batshit crazy for anyone that doesn't practice good psychological housekeeping.

All the counseling on earth will not help an alcoholic until the alcohol is first removed from the blood, then and only then can any attempt at normal be achieved.

Crazy comes in bottles, needles, and pills, get rid of them and 90% of the crazy will vanish.

I've only seen two therapists in my life, both female. So take this however you want it. But both times were absolute wastes of time.

"It's not your fault"
"Don't beat yourself up"
"You haven't got X, you've got Y"

They seem to be NPC's who have been trained one way and that's the way they operate throughout their entire career. You've got to remember: it's their job, their career. Their real true interest isn't you.

On my 2nd set of therapy sessions, I knew I didn't need her and she said: "You seem much better than a few sessions ago... but lets continue a few more to be sure" - she might as well have said: "Please don't let the money dry up".

If you're going through or a tough time, or are considering a therapist - DON'T let my experiences put you off.... however... personally, if I go through a bad time again, I'll be trying to listen to music, exercise, watch calories, watch comedies, go for walks etc etc All of those are free or low-cost. A therapist charges around $200 per session which is bananas in my opinion. 10 sessions in and you're $2000 lighter. And they'll find any way to hit those 10 sessions...

good luck with whichever route you go down.

Here's the thing: Therapy cannot help anybody with ANYTHING that stems from another person's actions. You cannot control another person's actions, you can only control how you deal with it.

So if you think you need therapy because another person is creating problems in your life, they cannot help you fix them. The only advice they'll have for you is things you already know: Stand up and fight this person, give in and be their doormat or run.

Therapy is only for your issues. And most of them do a piss-poor job at addressing it because it doesn't teach you any skill on how to survive properly.
It follows a doctrine where it only teaches you to think about how to be a good person. In a sociopolitical climate such as the modern day where narcissists and other cluster B personalities are the most successful and exalted people in society, they're training you to be taken advantage of.
(This is the point where people say they are "blamed" for everything when they go to therapy because what they tell you to do only makes you feel worse when you do it in the presence of these cluster B type persons, and since you can't fix those people, it feels like punishment).

If you have average intelligence, learn the techniques of CBT on your own and practice it. That way you can mix/match what works and learn how to apply it selectively to people you encounter; some people are assholes and they deserve to be treated like an asshole - therapists never tell you to apply anything this way, it's "be like this all the time".

If you have high intelligence, study the tenets of philosophy and the link between them and psychology. That way you can shape your experience in life to include/exclude what you want given any existentialist theory.

If you have low intelligence, copy the behaviours of the most successful people you know. Don't critique them - you're not smart enough for that. Just copy. Your life will improve and you won't understand why. It's a means to an end.

Suggest you supplement with Vitamin D combined with Vitamin K - Walmart sells the combo pill for a few bucks and low dose Lithium Orotate, available on Amazon. Might also want to take a daily E'mergency Vitamin C packet with cold water - $8 for a month's supply at Walmart. Vitamins are a lot cheaper than a therapist.

Originally Posted by Brock

Would you say that there is much (if any) benefit to therapy in most cases or if it's more of a racket to make the insurance companies more money?

It's both a benefit and a racket because it's a matter of degree and not kind.

For some people, it can be a help by providing an outside perspective and making you aware of various "tools" you can employ. For other people, it becomes both a crutch and an excuse. For anyone not willing to do the work, it is a waste of time and money.

I benefited from therapy after my last combat tour. It took less than two months, maybe 5 sessions in all. I got that outside perspective I mentioned, was introduced to cognitive behavioral therapy, and - most importantly - was strongly advised to increase my amount of physical activity and exercise. That last is very important. The brain-body link is a powerful one. Coach potatoes deteriorate both physically and mentally. Studies repeatedly show that in the case of mild depression a basic weight lifting program is as helpful as any of the drugs the industry pushes.

All the other replies I've read contain good advice. In your shoes I'd increase my physical activity, watch my diet, add supplements, read about CBT, and begin applying it to my daily life. I am not in your shoes however. If you feel the need for a "push" or "jump start", by all means go see a therapist - preferably male. Start developing those habits which will make you robust mentally, just don't make a habit of being in therapy.

It can help in the sense that it can make you see that what you are feeling is "normal" and that you aren't going over the top in your reactions and responses. It can also help you see things in different way or help you understand what is happening better.

That said once you get all of that sorted out there isn't much else it can do and I do question the idea of people seeing therapists indefinitely.

Originally Posted by suspiciouscrow

Its of some use but limited. I've tried it a couple of times:

1. Can help with observing your life and its patterns better.
2. Can help with some basic tools to deal with stress/anxiety/anger/etc better.
3. The benefit maxes out quickly for a few reasons:
   
   1. You can't talk about RP points;RP points are just reality. So you have to skirt around some personal issues as you can't give an honest description of your life's situation or problems.
   2. Its expensive and thus there's a limit to how much of it can be done.
   
   
4. It won't give a man the answers to his life's path or how to make the best use of his life. That has to come from elsewhere.

If going to therapy, its best to see a male therapist. Issues above still apply but not as severely.

#2 can be done by reading books and watching videos. What are RP points?

Originally Posted by suspiciouscrow

Separately:

• A healthy mind requires practice. That practice can be many different things but it should be an activity that is for the mind. Meditation, journaling etc. The key is that whatever a man chooses pick, its like brushing his teeth. A man is never done with it, its something to do every day to stay healthy.

"its like brushing his teeth"

That's the approach I've taken with exercise. Even if I don't always want to do it, it's just something that has to be done. I usually feel better at the end of the workout session than before.

Originally Posted by mgtoe

I've only seen two therapists in my life, both female. So take this however you want it. But both times were absolute wastes of time.


"It's not your fault"
"Don't beat yourself up"
"You haven't got X, you've got Y"


They seem to be NPC's who have been trained one way and that's the way they operate throughout their entire career. You've got to remember: it's their job, their career. Their real true interest isn't you.

This thought did cross my mind, especially these types that you're referring to, the NPC's. It seems that one must find a GOOD therapist in order for it to be worth it.

Originally Posted by mgtoe

On my 2nd set of therapy sessions, I knew I didn't need her and she said: "You seem much better than a few sessions ago... but lets continue a few more to be sure" - she might as well have said: "Please don't let the money dry up".

A similar thing could be had with personal trainers.

Originally Posted by mgtoe

If you're going through or a tough time, or are considering a therapist - DON'T let my experiences put you off.... however... personally, if I go through a bad time again, I'll be trying to listen to music, exercise, watch calories, watch comedies, go for walks etc etc All of those are free or low-cost. A therapist charges around $200 per session which is bananas in my opinion. 10 sessions in and you're $2000 lighter. And they'll find any way to hit those 10 sessions...


good luck with whichever route you go down.

Music and exercise definitely helps. Watching calories? That tends to have the opposite effect as in too much restrictie dieting can be counterproductive. Those are good options though. Some therapists (especially those that do youtube stuff) charge twice as much! It may be worth it if they're good and you only need a few seesions and they don't push you to pay for more. You're right that it is their way of making money and I'm sure there are many that want their clients dependent on them (especially if they have insurance that pays part of it). I wouldn't put it past some doctors and dentists to do the same.

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

Here's the thing: Therapy cannot help anybody with ANYTHING that stems from another person's actions. You cannot control another person's actions, you can only control how you deal with it.

That's the main reason why I even entertained the thought to begin with. Many problems are caused by the actions and/or behavior of others.

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

So if you think you need therapy because another person is creating problems in your life, they cannot help you fix them. The only advice they'll have for you is things you already know: Stand up and fight this person, give in and be their doormat or run.

Yep those are the only options. An option that works with one may not work with another.

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

Therapy is only for your issues. And most of them do a piss-poor job at addressing it because it doesn't teach you any skill on how to survive properly.
It follows a doctrine where it only teaches you to think about how to be a good person. In a sociopolitical climate such as the modern day where narcissists and other cluster B personalities are the most successful and exalted people in society, they're training you to be taken advantage of.

I've already gotten that brainwashing from K-12, college, etc.

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

(This is the point where people say they are "blamed" for everything when they go to therapy because what they tell you to do only makes you feel worse when you do it in the presence of these cluster B type persons, and since you can't fix those people, it feels like punishment).


If you have average intelligence, learn the techniques of CBT on your own and practice it. That way you can mix/match what works and learn how to apply it selectively to people you encounter; some people are assholes and they deserve to be treated like an asshole - therapists never tell you to apply anything this way, it's "be like this all the time".

I have heard of CPT but never really looked into it.....will have to look into.

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

If you have high intelligence, study the tenets of philosophy and the link between them and psychology. That way you can shape your experience in life to include/exclude what you want given any existentialist theory.

Someone here recomended a book on stoics recently (maybe it was you?). I read it and it was pretty good. One espect was not to let insults OR praise get to your head.

Originally Posted by CPRA

Suggest you supplement with Vitamin D combined with Vitamin K - Walmart sells the combo pill for a few bucks and low dose Lithium Orotate, available on Amazon. Might also want to take a daily E'mergency Vitamin C packet with cold water - $8 for a month's supply at Walmart. Vitamins are a lot cheaper than a therapist.

I have done the Vitamin D thing since a doc recommended it years ago after noticing my levels were low. Will look into Vitamin K and C, although I do take plenty of Vitamins already (B, C, multi, etc). I wonder how much is too much. It's not like I'm depressed but do get burnt out especially when it comes to work.

Originally Posted by Prokopton2

It's both a benefit and a racket because it's a matter of degree and not kind.


For some people, it can be a help by providing an outside perspective and making you aware of various "tools" you can employ. For other people, it becomes both a crutch and an excuse. For anyone not willing to do the work, it is a waste of time and money.


I benefited from therapy after my last combat tour. It took less than two months, maybe 5 sessions in all.

Seems that the better the coach or therapist, the fewer sessions that one needs.

Originally Posted by Prokopton2

I got that outside perspective I mentioned, was introduced to cognitive behavioral therapy, and - most importantly - was strongly advised to increase my amount of physical activity and exercise. That last is very important. The brain-body link is a powerful one. Coach potatoes deteriorate both physically and mentally. Studies repeatedly show that in the case of mild depression a basic weight lifting program is as helpful as any of the drugs the industry pushes.


All the other replies I've read contain good advice. In your shoes I'd increase my physical activity, watch my diet, add supplements, read about CBT, and begin applying it to my daily life. I am not in your shoes however. If you feel the need for a "push" or "jump start", by all means go see a therapist - preferably male. Start developing those habits which will make you robust mentally, just don't make a habit of being in therapy.

Physical activity definitely helps! I once read something in a book that said something like "exercise is the best anti-depressant" there is. Sitting all day and staring at a computer is not all that healthy but exercise and even walking helps counter balance that. Too much exercise has its drawbacks as well.


I'm pretty much doing all of that except for CBT. I think it would help if I slept better. I have been diagnosed with mild sleep apnea so hopefully treatment will help with that. I don't really get depressed, but when I feel out of sorts, it's usually from fatigue because I've slept poorly for days at a time and/or have not gotten enough physical activity and/or burned out from work. Dealing with toxic behavior from people can contribute to that, but it is not always possible to avoid them. I think my main issue is being too much of a people pleaser.

Lots of videos on Youtube discussing supplement benefits - suggest Dr Stansfield's videos for example. There was another video by an insurance company employee who used Vitamin D deficiencies to predict life span for life insurance. He suggested between 5000 to 10000 IU per day. Vitamin D and C combat depression and Vitamin K is necessary when taking Vitamin D.

Originally Posted by Brock

I have done the Vitamin D thing since a doc recommended it years ago after noticing my levels were low. Will look into Vitamin K and C, although I do take plenty of Vitamins already (B, C, multi, etc). I wonder how much is too much. It's not like I'm depressed but do get burnt out especially when it comes to work.

Originally Posted by Brock

Someone here recomended a book on stoics recently (maybe it was you?). I read it and it was pretty good. One espect was not to let insults OR praise get to your head.

At it's most basic, stoicism is cognitive behavioral therapy. The Stoics of the Classical Era like Epictetus and Seneca added other bits because the "job" of any philosophy during that period was to provide a framework that explained everything. When you read the classical stoic texts there will be various discourses on physics, metaphysics, morality, and fate - aka God. All that extra stuff is just extra fluff which tends to obscure the basic tenet of stoicism: You can only truly control you reaction to events.

If I may, let me suggest two books by Dr. Massimo Pigliucci; How to be a Stoic: Ancient Wisdom for Modern Living and Live like a Stoic: 53 Brief Lessons for Living. The former is an excellent overview of stoicism and it's benefits. The latter is a workbook of sorts which will help you learn to apply stoic principles to your daily life.

Stoicism and it's modern brother cognitive behavioral therapy have helped me greatly. That doesn't guarantee that they will help you. You are your own individual and as such must find your own way. However, I have every confidence that you will find your own way because you're asking questions. That's a strong indication that you will do the work which you determine to be necessary.

Therapy can work IF you get a good quality therapist. There are some excellent ones out there, but there are some pretty bad ones too. You need someone who can understand a man's problems and not believe the absurd feminist cliches about men.

Originally Posted by CPRA

Lots of videos on Youtube discussing supplement benefits - suggest Dr Stansfield's videos for example. There was another video by an insurance company employee who used Vitamin D deficiencies to predict life span for life insurance. He suggested between 5000 to 10000 IU per day. Vitamin D and C combat depression and Vitamin K is necessary when taking Vitamin D.

I take 1000 IU per day. I did read a book that recommended taking a similar amount as you mention. Honestly whenever I hear of alternative medicine, I am a bit skeptical and tend to think "scam" as if someone is trying to sell a book or get people to watch their youtube videos. If it really works, why doesn't everyone do it? Have you tried it and found that it works for you?

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

Therapy can work IF you get a good quality therapist. There are some excellent ones out there, but there are some pretty bad ones too. You need someone who can understand a man's problems and not believe the absurd feminist cliches about men.

Good point.
It seems like the excellent ones who know their stuff are more expensive. You get what you pay for I guess.

Originally Posted by Prokopton2

. All that extra stuff is just extra fluff which tends to obscure the basic tenet of stoicism: You can only truly control you reaction to events.

That is true.


I know people who constantly complain about things they cannot control, despite me reminding them over and over.

Originally Posted by Prokopton2

If I may, let me suggest two books by Dr. Massimo Pigliucci; How to be a Stoic: Ancient Wisdom for Modern Living and Live like a Stoic: 53 Brief Lessons for Living. The former is an excellent overview of stoicism and it's benefits. The latter is a workbook of sorts which will help you learn to apply stoic principles to your daily life.


Stoicism and it's modern brother cognitive behavioral therapy have helped me greatly. That doesn't guarantee that they will help you. You are your own individual and as such must find your own way. However, I have every confidence that you will find your own way because you're asking questions. That's a strong indication that you will do the work which you determine to be necessary.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will look up those books and CBT. Always thought CBT needed to be done with a therapist but I will admit to knowing very little about it.