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  1. #1
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    Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Hi there. Before I start I don't want to make this a "vegan" post creating a sort of rant against it with your personal pros and againsts and be all political about it, but if you feel you need to do that relevant to the core point of the post then by all means. I'm not here so much to talk or preach or argue against the concept. I am looking though for people's perspectives to what kind of affect it's had on human relationships today? The reason I ask this is from talking on chatrooms in Discord and runs parallel to my evaluation of masculinity and femininity in another thread. For pretty much without fail no matter which vegan orientated chatroom I talk about the manosphere or MGTOW or TRP or any concept or word as such, you do get a similar kind of response. And if that is true, and there proves a consistency in this response, and if veganism if you believe is set to increase in numbers which I believe is projected and become more influential as more younger generations prove to adopt the lifestyle, then it gives you a good indicator for the future and thusly then a grasp on the future of MGTOW since it is a movement just like veganism is a movement, and as movement's naturally suggestion, must move, as in, evolve. And understanding the future of concepts and particularly one's I'm interested is why I'm posting this.

    So what is this similar kind of response? To say veganism is about animal rights is true but to say then that that makes it exclusive and the culture it creates doesn't leak out into other areas of life is false relevant to animals or not. And this response, well you get the causal suspicions of incel, that comes automatically per usual. You get what I have come to call "traditional public humour". Like to say, "HAHA THE WOMAN DOES ALL THE WORK AND THE MAN JUST TAKES THE CREDIT SO HILARIOUS TYPICAL MAN WHEN WILL YOU PULL UP YOUR SOCKS" kind of thing. Or emphasising female protection, always policing the attitudes of men because there's again an unfounded personal suspicion of some kind of "injustice" constantly at work, with policing being a good word. And strong emphasis on egalitarianism, like a lot to them that will solve a lot of today's problems which in my view is just another word for sissify, to make softer and weaker and thusly more easy to manipulate, which I could then argue would then tempt conflict to some degree given strength is to be admired. And another phrase that popped up is something like "compassion is a strength", if any of you would like to contest or promote that with an argument or clarification please go ahead. I for one see pros and cons in it. And then why you try to explain the problems of human relationships today, and suggest that creating a more compassionate - and thusly feminine men - is going to make the situation worse, based on how females tend to emotionally manipulate the more sensitive men as they when ranked on hierarchies of beauty at the top tend to desire more masculine types to be dominant over them simultaneously whilst they also like to then be dominant over the beta "nice guy". It then means if veganism is to increase in our global societies, this social problem will get worse. And don't get me started on how they are largely against slut shaming, which means more hypergamy overdrive, all adding to the same problem.

    And yeah lastly not to mention veganism's tie with feminism both being a social justice movement. Both claiming to be against oppression taking from the side of the victim and whatever mentalities and perspectives that summons and how a lot of vegans tend to identify also as feminists. Oh and how more woman are vegans and how veganism is viewed as a compassionate thing granting it attributes of femininity and thusly possibly feminising if you hold that concept to be true. For what was seen of feminism, seeking "equality" which then became a man hunt against men undermining itself didn't it? Same thing for the feminine concept of veganism. Preaching about compassion but showing merciless judgement against people that ate meat again contradicting itself, as if that was a natural outcome of the chaos of femininity.

    There is the argument against veganism on this notion for it being a bad influence to society in creating the need for something like MGTOW is soy products and have a feminising effect creating the effeminate man and the societal outcomes of having loads of those which I'd like to hear your estimations of. And I would only agree with this as a valid argument to a certain extent. It's true from what I've seen a lot of vegans do consume soy. It is also true that soy does have oestrogen promoting compounds though from videos I've seen challenging this notion it seems to be a certain kind call phytoestrogen which is an estrogen-like compound and very weak at that and just kind of become a scare tactic to manipulate the masses into a certain direction. But this concept has kind of been debunked and become a meme that crops up in people's bias. The reason soy can have more potent oestrogen as I've also read is it is genetically modified with this concept to feed to live stock to encourage them to get fatter and produce young more to feed the industry, and therefore if you eat meat, you're most likely to also be getting this same affect, not to mention also drinking actual milk which undoubtedly has more oestrogen and I think eating meat and milk is much more likely to result in man boobs than eating beans which are typically a symbol of strength and growth. And that's why I reject the argument that if veganism is feminine and that does have a certain - not very well identified affect on society - then soy is not to blame. And further to that, I think when a lot of vegans are tested for testosterone the results tend to be quite healthy according to studies though if you like we can debate that - some magazine articles like the first thing that popped up on Google when searching for testosterone in vegans saying the conditioned usual, no protein, no B12, no iron, no testosterone and all the rest of it, these concepts are what I would describe fitting into a bracket of masculinity.

    So what are your thoughts on veganism's influence on human relationships creating the outcome of today which requires and creates MGTOW, do you think it's true? And veganism's influence has helped demonise men and also empowered woman which then with their lack of sensibility have lead human relationships into just being a total farce? Or do you think there is no corrolation.
    Last edited by Tildae; February 25, 2020 at 1:23 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tildae View Post
    Hi there. Before I start I don't want to make this a "vegan" post creating a sort of rant against it with your personal pros and againsts and be all political about it, but if you feel you need to do that relevant to the core point of the post then by all means. I'm not here so much to talk or preach or argue against the concept. I am looking though for people's perspectives to what kind of affect it's had on human relationships today? The reason I ask this is from talking on chatrooms in Discord and runs parallel to my evaluation of masculinity and femininity in another thread. For pretty much without fail no matter which vegan orientated chatroom I talk about the manosphere or MGTOW or TRP or any concept or word as such, you do get a similar kind of response. And if that is true, and there proves a consistency in this response, and if veganism if you believe is set to increase in numbers which I believe is projected and become more influential as more younger generations prove to adopt the lifestyle, then it gives you a good indicator for the future and thusly then a grasp on the future of MGTOW since it is a movement just like veganism is a movement, and as movement's naturally suggestion, must move, as in, evolve. And understanding the future of concepts and particularly one's I'm interested is why I'm posting this.

    So what is this similar kind of response? To say veganism is about animal rights is true but to say then that that makes it exclusive and the culture it creates doesn't leak out into other areas of life is false relevant to animals or not. And this response, well you get the causal suspicions of incel, that comes automatically per usual. You get what I have come to call "traditional public humour". Like to say, "HAHA THE WOMAN DOES ALL THE WORK AND THE MAN JUST TAKES THE CREDIT SO HILARIOUS TYPICAL MAN WHEN WILL YOU PULL UP YOUR SOCKS" kind of thing. Or emphasising female protection, always policing the attitudes of men because there's again an unfounded personal suspicion of some kind of "injustice" constantly at work, with policing being a good word. And strong emphasis on egalitarianism, like a lot to them that will solve a lot of today's problems which in my view is just another word for sissify, to make softer and weaker and thusly more easy to manipulate, which I could then argue would then tempt conflict to some degree given strength is to be admired. And another phrase that popped up is something like "compassion is a strength", if any of you would like to contest or promote that with an argument or clarification please go ahead. I for one see pros and cons in it. And then why you try to explain the problems of human relationships today, and suggest that creating a more compassionate - and thusly feminine men - is going to make the situation worse, based on how females tend to emotionally manipulate the more sensitive men as they when ranked on hierarchies of beauty at the top tend to desire more masculine types to be dominant over them simultaneously whilst they also like to then be dominant over the beta "nice guy". It then means if veganism is to increase in our global societies, this social problem will get worse. And don't get me started on how they are largely against slut shaming, which means more hypergamy overdrive, all adding to the same problem.

    And yeah lastly not to mention veganism's tie with feminism both being a social justice movement. Both claiming to be against oppression taking from the side of the victim and whatever mentalities and perspectives that summons and how a lot of vegans tend to identify also as feminists. Oh and how more woman are vegans and how veganism is viewed as a compassionate thing granting it attributes of femininity and thusly possibly feminising if you hold that concept to be true. For what was seen of feminism, seeking "equality" which then became a man hunt against men undermining itself didn't it? Same thing for the feminine concept of veganism. Preaching about compassion but showing merciless judgement against people that ate meat again contradicting itself, as if that was a natural outcome of the chaos of femininity.

    There is the argument against veganism on this notion for it being a bad influence to society in creating the need for something like MGTOW is soy products and have a feminising effect creating the effeminate man and the societal outcomes of having loads of those which I'd like to hear your estimations of. And I would only agree with this as a valid argument to a certain extent. It's true from what I've seen a lot of vegans do consume soy. It is also true that soy does have oestrogen promoting compounds though from videos I've seen challenging this notion it seems to be a certain kind call phytoestrogen which is an estrogen-like compound and very weak at that and just kind of become a scare tactic to manipulate the masses into a certain direction. But this concept has kind of been debunked and become a meme that crops up in people's bias. The reason soy can have more potent oestrogen as I've also read is it is genetically modified with this concept to feed to live stock to encourage them to get fatter and produce young more to feed the industry, and therefore if you eat meat, you're most likely to also be getting this same affect, not to mention also drinking actual milk which undoubtedly has more oestrogen and I think eating meat and milk is much more likely to result in man boobs than eating beans which are typically a symbol of strength and growth. And that's why I reject the argument that if veganism is feminine and that does have a certain - not very well identified affect on society - then soy is not to blame. And further to that, I think when a lot of vegans are tested for testosterone the results tend to be quite healthy according to studies though if you like we can debate that - some magazine articles like the first thing that popped up on Google when searching for testosterone in vegans saying the conditioned usual, no protein, no B12, no iron, no testosterone and all the rest of it, these concepts are what I would describe fitting into a bracket of masculinity.

    So what are your thoughts on veganism's influence on human relationships creating the outcome of today which requires and creates MGTOW, do you think it's true? And veganism's influence has helped demonise men and also empowered woman which then with their lack of sensibility have lead human relationships into just being a total farce? Or do you think there is no corrolation.
    I don't know what you're reading or where but you are so far off course in much of what you say that I don't know where to start.

    MGTOW is a movement? Just where did you get get that notion? The only thing movement-like about MGTOW is we have all moved away from deep relationships with women, and for various reasons.

    So what are your thoughts on veganism's influence on human relationships creating the outcome of today which requires and creates MGTOW
    What on earth are you talking about?

    and suggest that creating a more compassionate - and thusly feminine men - is going to make the situation worse
    You are young and possibly inexperienced so I'll forgive you this error in your assessment. Compassion is NOT a feminine trait. Some people have it to a greater extent than others but it's certainly not more prevalent in women, although they might like to make you think so. Read through the many intro's on this site and see how compassionate women are.
    Last edited by Jackoff; February 25, 2020 at 5:01 PM.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    MGTOW is not a movement. Movements seek political change, movements politicise their members identity. MGTOW does not seek to politicise or 'maximise gains' on the political level. It may be similar to other movements in the sense that, we take precautions when dealing with unsavoury characters, in order to protect ourselves. You cannot really pin MGTOW down, it is simple, yet elusive, not in the mystical way, but the reason is that we are still figuring out what it means to be a man in the modern western gynocracies.

    So what are your thoughts on veganism's influence on human relationships creating the outcome of today which requires and creates MGTOW, do you think it's true?
    Can't make sense of this question either.

    And another phrase that popped up is something like "compassion is a strength", if any of you would like to contest or promote that with an argument or clarification please go ahead. I for one see pros and cons in it. And then why you try to explain the problems of human relationships today, and suggest that creating a more compassionate - and thusly feminine men - is going to make the situation worse, based on how females tend to emotionally manipulate the more sensitive men as they when ranked on hierarchies of beauty at the top tend to desire more masculine types to be dominant over them simultaneously whilst they also like to then be dominant over the beta "nice guy".
    In my 7 years of being a bonafide MGTOW, this notion has got to be the biggest misconception I have even come across. Along with the idea that women are mysterious, romantic. It is total, pure and utter shite!

    I have never heard so much non-sense in my whole entire life. Women are not compassionate. As Jackoff mentions, they fool you into thinking they are compassionate. They feign compassion, sensitivity.

    Women are master manipulators when it comes to the use of words and verbiage.

    The one thing which does differ between men and women is that, men tend to hold others accountable for wrongdoings. Women don't, they either let people do what they want and cause havoc, or they seek vengeance for some personal dissatisfaction they suffered.

    I want to mention, MGTOW is not about men > women, or men < women. There are plenty of scumbag men! MGTOW is a realisation and conscious choice you that you get to decide your own male identity, not have some prescribed identity rammed down your throat by your mother, sister, siblings, extended family, nation, city, religion or whatever other group.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tildae View Post
    So what are your thoughts on veganism's influence on human relationships creating the outcome of today which requires and creates MGTOW, do you think it's true? And veganism's influence has helped demonise men and also empowered woman which then with their lack of sensibility have lead human relationships into just being a total farce? Or do you think there is no corrolation.
    I think vegans as a group have always been outliers for being vegan. The few vocal vegans I encounter in newsprint and other media seem to believe strongly in their reasons for being vegan and are quick to proselytize or otherwise give off a superiority vibe as if others have not seen the light. From this, I could imagine that they would love if a larger spotlight would come their way, or if a pendulum would swing their way to give them a greater relevance and respect that they would want.

    Keep in mind, I'm shooting from the hip here and have not rehearsed these thoughts.

    So, in this recent social identity thing going on where certain populations get elevated and amplified such as the L, the G, the B, the T, the non-white and non-male, etc., the vegan group can insert themselves into this large spotlight and not get bumped off the stage and would get attention they did not have before. Factor in the increase of those who would embrace veganism anyway, the more it is advertised, the more familiar people get with it, the more delicious food options there are, the more affluent people are to afford it, and we could say that veganism is creating a life of it own, but yes boosted in part by the celebration of these other people groups on the stage.

    To the extent that veganism connotes non-violence and some kind of harmony with the earth, requiring no coarse and un-pretty processes that meat-eating requires and connotes, I can see the attraction that women have for it. Women shun the un-pretty, basically, or things that look like physical work. Veganism is pretty.

    As women gravitate towards veganism, they make it theirs. Lacking masculinity, they infuse it with their feminine handling of it. That fusion is what I think you see when you asked your question. It's not veganism's influence that is demonizing men. What you may be seeing is women who are doing that through their veganism because condescension of men is what they do anyway and veganism is yet another place they inhabit.
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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tildae View Post
    ... MGTOW... veganism... and a HUUUGE WALL O' TEXT !!!
    I did read your text, but I am not sure I understood all of it, I was often lost, but I can try responding to tidbits I understood.

    The members here will argue that MGTOW is not a movement, and I tend to agree with them, I think its a philosophy, but okay, lets go with the vocabulary. I want to focus on MGTOW vs veganism.

    1. MGTOW: Is a proposed solution (both cure and prevention) to a problem in our society. The solution is easily implemented on personal level, you dont need to go out and persuade masses to believe a certain way or vote a certain party etc. From an outsider's view, its a radical solution, or in other words, it solves some problems but creates one (how can I live without wahmen ?!). The basic philosophy of MGTOW revolves around an assertion that the problem it solves is much bigger than the problem it supposedly creates.

    2. Veganism: Its also probably a proposed radical solution to a problem. Cruelty to animals and maybe some environmental effects I dont know, are maybe the problems its trying to solve. It also creates a problem (how can I live without meat/chicken/etc ?!). And I think, like MGTOW, it asserts that the created problem is less than the solved problem.

    So yeah, I may agree there is a parallel, but... and a BIG BUT... Veganism is very weak in its assertion and logic. It relies on things like compassion and all that jazz, and probably understates the intensity of problem it creates (non-vegetarian diet has lots of benefits). MGTOW's assertion is several orders of magnitude powerful, and the ecosystem will suggest you many ways to live without women.

    Thats my point of view anyway, I follow a very rigid set of rules to determine what constitutes a logical assertion and what is not, and even many fellow MGTOWs dont agree completely with those rules, but thats another discussion. The point is, veganism seriously fails most of those rules.
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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tildae View Post
    So what are your thoughts on veganism's influence on human relationships creating the outcome of today which requires and creates MGTOW, do you think it's true?
    I suspect that veganism is an effect, not a cause, of the current turnmoil. After all - there aren't really that many vegans. All I'd suggest is that you yourself should stop wasting your time with these people.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    1. MGTOW: Is a proposed solution (both cure and prevention) to a problem in our society. The solution is easily implemented on personal level, you dont need to go out and persuade masses to believe a certain way or vote a certain party etc. From an outsider's view, its a radical solution, or in other words, it solves some problems but creates one (how can I live without wahmen ?!). The basic philosophy of MGTOW revolves around an assertion that the problem it solves is much bigger than the problem it supposedly creates.
    Quite right about that sir. I have often advocated that no one MGTOW should try and 'recruit' others to the MGTOW cause. MGTOW is simply taking care of your own business. MGTOW, in my estimation is the idea, that a man, a man going his own way, must MAXIMISE every single situation in his life to his benefit. The relationships you have, with either men or women, your company, or society at large, must be that of a net benefit.

    A bitch is fishing for a free drink?
    You tell her to go fuck herself.

    Your company is exploiting you?
    You skive at work and milk them.

    Some cunt is trying to get you do to heavy lifting?
    You pretend to be gay and weak and if they shame you, you file for sexual harassment and discrimination.

    MGTOW is pretty simple in that sense.

    Veganism is different, that is a movement that seeks political change. MGTOW doesn't care for politics and in fact despises such domains because the people who inhabit those industries tend to be devil tongued manipulators; similar to the majority of women.
    A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

    Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
    Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

    The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself.

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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Hi everyone thanks all for posting. It seems there's been quite a negative reaction and I think misconceptions are at work but let's talk about it.

    @Jackoff
    I said MGTOW was a movment both based on the definition of being movement as "a change or development". I'm also seeing definitions of MGTOW as a community based around anti-feminism which is then a response. I see MGTOW.com defining it as "is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else." But I can't help but think if a people are doing that, and coming to do it together like create a forum, there then becomes set directions which help orientate what are constitutions of MGTOW and thusly a movement forms as one tries to educate another as to why they've taken that stance which then set characteristics are soon to form. But as Opaque said, movements are about creating a social change, which then would divorce MGTOW being about advocating for men's rights, which if men are going their own way which on a surface level basically says 'fuck this I don't care', away from the norm then that maybe is not possible to then advocate. So that's a misconception on my part, for I assumed a lot of MGTOW men wanted men's rights and actual equal rights and are willing to voice that and make a statement about being separate from woman entirely to prove that which would grant it to being a movement. Or at least in my eyes.

    With regards to my question: So what are your thoughts on veganism's influence on human relationships creating the outcome of today which requires and creates MGTOW, do you think it's true?

    The phrase outcome of today, would be things like Feminism's influence to the idea of the family. Which upon asking how much value is placed on that in vegan chatrooms there was a negative response saying the family isn't worth that much since it promotes dysfunctional homes and they said it's better to be raised by a single parent than two dysfunctional parents by which then empowering woman to allow them to not be so dependant on men would then allow a more better raised child, and MGTOW, and in my view a lot of people just don't have meaningful relationships that are based around trust and commitment and traditional or conservative values that are designed to see your relationship to the later years and I think that affects human health which then makes it a concern of mine though as I'm sure you are aware, the divorce rate shot up after feminism became onto the seen - but perhaps for that vary reason, that woman only married because they had to and didn't want to. I believe feminism as a term is growing unpopular in situations that are not the public eye but still dominant in the work place I might add. But from what I understand, veganism is growing popular, and a lot of people that identify as vegan also claim to be for the notions of feminism like emphasis on egalitarianism. So whilst the label of feminism might be weakening what effects it has on human relationships might transpire in this other movement which I wondered if you thought the same. And an example of that what vegans I find a lot identify with is socialism as that is not necessarily about animals but seems to leak out into culture as a biproduct, because that is based presumably on equality, which vegans claim to be so much for equality that they would grant it to unintelligent animals. And that then will have a social impact which might then create more men to become MGTOW if they society increases it's feminist influence as stated prior a lot of MGTOW cames from being anti-feminist unless you'd like to contest that since it's improper to say what this concept is. And I wondered if MGTOW however people identify with it would change if it became even bigger. Which I predict a sense of balance and less man hating might come about. And just as a gimmicky little example though I do have inner fears, please watch the Paul Joesph Watson video: SOYCIALISTS OF AMERICA. For what I've seen of groups like Extinction Rebellion - who are for environmentalism and members not sworn to veganism but claim both veganism and environmentalism to be one in the same thing - I've seen this behaviour also which was mentioned in that video. And it does seem to be growing popular. And I wanted to see other's opinions on that matter if they've found it to grow popular and if they think it's as worrying as I do.

    No you're mistaken. I don't perceive compassion as a feminine trait, I perceive compassion as being publicly perceived as a feminine trait as to say people naively view compassion as feminine because they feel obliged not to call out their true nature for some reason. And that people would then try to go into this direction of promoting compassion thinking it's true along with striving for the equality in however they can define it, though I would in my view see woman to be more forgiving than men generally which I think is a form of compassion and that's about as much as lenience I'd give or at least tend to not be so forgiving which is what I base that off, and something I am trying to work on by the way. But that's just what I've seen. But I do think that compassion does soften you up a bit. And thusly become more feminine which we can refer to my other thread Masculinity and Femininity for an evaluation as to why that might be. And that's how that statement came about which you quoted thirdly.

    @Opaque
    Yes I've seen MGTOW not really seeking politicise though I have to wonder if that is counter intuitive based on how a MGTOW man would most probably appreciate becoming MGTOW sooner and thus liked to find out about it sooner and also not be so unfairly treated. But then I think about a common phrase in the manosphere and then no longer wonder why - "when the game's rigged, the only way to win is to not play".

    And again I feel like my words are misinterpreted "And another phrase that popped up is something like "compassion is a strength...". My point in saying that segment was that that was what they were saying in the leftist chatrooms, which clearly we can identify as a feminine thing to do which is to bait with the idea of compassion. And if that is common amongst the vegan movement, which is growing, then expect more of that which is obviously a problem. That was the point in me saying that. And yeah I totally agree, the notion of romance is nothing but lies and in my view a big shit test and technique to exploit for personal gain and increase vanity.

    But yeah that's interesting.
    The one thing which does differ between men and women is that, men tend to hold others accountable for wrongdoings. Women don't, they either let people do what they want and cause havoc, or they seek vengeance for some personal dissatisfaction they suffered.
    I think a feminist would argue their actions are holding men accoutable for how is holding someone accountable different for some form of revenge? Though the idea of "justice"? But the way you described it, it almost was as if the female perspective was "just do what you want until it hurts someone else" which is a phrase I hear alot, except when it becomes about them is personal. Though I can see a lot of that in society in general people not really giving a shit unless it concerns them. Maybe even MGTOW's neglect of creating influence for men's rights if going your own way individually is to break away from society and everyone it sucks up in the process. But maybe I am now misunderstanding, perhaps you could elaborate on that point.

    And yes I can see based on what you say MGTOW is about, why people here wonder why then I have put effort into writing these topics or don't respond to them so well as if my identity was constituted by others thusly conflicting with an origin though honestly I don't think to be true. I think everyone is made of how we influence each other, but yeah it's good that MGTOW helps then identity a form of one's true self.

    @Unboxxed
    Yeah that's what I was trying to get at, that LGBT is social justice. Feminism is social justice. Veganism is social justice. And what all social justice seems to do is target males, and more specifically as you also pointed out, white males therefore creating an influence to the community of MGTOW. And yeah that's also what I was meaning, the more veganism has females in it, the more it becomes like some kind of FLR and injects those connotations and outcomes into the society veganism develops within which I'm saying creates even more of the problem men face today. But I do have to add that since everyone of these groups does want equality, and they do need to be a common enemy, I think regardless for some reason men are always going to be the ones they drag into the firing range for. They need to have some common enemy, and I have seen a lot of the talk about "male white privilege". and looking at Laurence Fox and the backlash he got from Rachel Boyle though not exactly about veganism, I think it does spell nature that holds true to woman. I would put the affect of social justice movements and being feminine like this: woman declare they are not appreciated. Therefore, anyone that argues against that, proves they are not appreciated. If you don't acknowledge they are, you also justify their complaining creating a win win echo chamber for them which has a mechanism that seems to hold true in these social moments which creates the limitation on free speech. Because get prepared to be demonised as being a monster if you dare think different, which I would then describe as a feminine strategy though I need to evaluate that concept further.

    @rkspsm
    A philosophy? And maybe not a movement, but you would say it is a philosophy over being a community? Or what more? But yeah that's a good way to put it I think I'll refer to it in that manner as well. But if that's true, and I would also consider veganism as a philosophy, that means they can be compared by their philosophical stances. But I think that is off topic as I didn't want to turn this into a veganism debate, and I think with the amount of noise veganism's generated about the affect of global warming I wouldn't describe it as weak. Though if you wanted to debate the issue we could go else were I'd like to know what your logical assertion is it sounds interesting.


    @ Mr Wombat
    I'm not quite sure what you mean but my point in this post was that wasting your time with these people is going to become increasingly difficult.

    But yeah thanks all for posting. And it is interesting to see the response to the topic.

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    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tildae View Post
    Though if you wanted to debate the issue we could go else were I'd like to know what your logical assertion is it sounds interesting.
    Sent you a PM.
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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Ow, my head hurts!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tildae View Post
    Hi everyone thanks all for posting. It seems there's been quite a negative reaction and I think misconceptions are at work but let's talk about it.
    Quite possibly.

    If you wish to minimise this I suggest suggest that you try to organise your thoughts before posting and use paragraphs to distinguish one point from another.

    Also you need to emphasise which views are your own and which come from "other sources" clearly. For the reader it is difficult to understand exactly what it is you're getting at when one thought runs seemlessly into another.

    Anyway, I will try to reply to comments about my post and leave other members to do likewise if they are so inclined.

    I see MGTOW.com defining it as "is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else." But I can't help but think if a people are doing that, and coming to do it together like create a forum, there then becomes set directions which help orientate what are constitutions of MGTOW and thusly a movement forms as one tries to educate another as to why they've taken that stance which then set characteristics are soon to form.
    I think I see where you are coming from in seeing MGTOW as a movement but think of this:

    Movements, in the traditional sense, require form, structure, leadership, and recruitment policies. We have none of that. We are simply individuals that have come to the same conclusion about relationships with women and, as I previously stated, for a variety of reasons. We follow no lead and we certainly have no wish to recruit. The people that post on sites like this do so for many reasons. I suggest you shouldn't even try to classify us beyond this - it's a waste of your time.

    I assumed a lot of MGTOW men wanted men's rights and actual equal rights
    Some do, some don't. Again, for your own sake stop trying to pigeon-hole us.

    a lot of people that identify as vegan also claim to be for the notions of feminism like emphasis on egalitarianism.
    Veganism is an individual lifestyle choice, however I agree that many wish to impose their choice and beliefs on others and step into the realm of SJWism. SJWs tend to band together not because they believe in the other's convictions but because it widens their audience base and the tenuous links they make with other groups are just that - tenuous.

    As for feminism, yes it does claim to be for equal rights but if it was it would be called egalitarianism and not feminism, the fight for women's rights over men.

    No you're mistaken. I don't perceive compassion as a feminine trait, I perceive compassion as being publicly perceived as a feminine trait
    Misinterpretation corrected, thank you.

    I would in my view see woman to be more forgiving than men generally
    This is a false impression. Women will often appear to forgive others but will harbour a grudge long after the initial incident has been forgotten by the transgressor only to resurface later when it suits her. Other times they will make it look that they are forgiving a transgression when really they don't care about it in order to gain something in another area - I'll forgive you darling but only if you do this for me!

    If men weren't more forgiving than women generally then no relationship would last more than a few months and many would end a lot sooner.
    Last edited by Jackoff; February 28, 2020 at 2:25 PM.
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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Ow, my head hurts!

    ... I suggest suggest that you try to organise your thoughts before posting and use paragraphs to distinguish one point from another.

    Also you need to emphasise which views are your own and which come from "other sources" clearly. For the reader it is difficult to understand exactly what it is you're getting at when one thought runs seemlessly into another.
    Haha !! So its not just me !

    His writing style reminds me of those jam packed crossroads in India when traffic lights stop working and there are no policemen around. Everyone start crossing at the same time and you dont know who is going where and you get a huge mess !!!
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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    Haha !! So its not just me !

    His writing style reminds me of those jam packed crossroads in India when traffic lights stop working and there are no policemen around. Everyone start crossing at the same time and you dont know who is going where and you get a huge mess !!!
    In cases like that, trucks have the right of way (especially the big ones) and pedestrians BEWARE!

    What goes "thup, thup,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thup thup"?

    Answer: A pedestrian in India not yielding to a semi truck at an intersection with a broken traffic light.
    A man's only "safe space" be in his sovereignty, free from the illusions and misconceptions of a unity that only serves to bind him to tyranny and perdition.

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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Well anyway, long story short, my point is that certain actions and movements in society become man hating and it's increasing in more ways than one. And feminism isn't the only one, veganism seems to have elements of that in it as well. That was the point in the post and the evaluation, just to make you aware, aside definitions etc etc. And if you want proof just do as I did and go to a vegan chatroom. But I get it you are detached from society, and not interested in recruiting or talking about anyone that's bluepilled. I can't remember the Lord of the Rings film, but it was something like the orcs are increasing their numbers and soon it'll be everyone's fight so maybe not the best idea to keep away or some shit like that. And I wondered then if there should at least be attention towards the issue if SJWism is growing and will soon come find you even if you're self employed. But yeah looks like it doesn't matter to most.

    Anyway thanks all for posting, and here is an example of posting today of something in a vegan chatroom about MGTOW if you can be fucked reading. This opinion seems to be the common norm amongst them:

    [Mod note: I removed your huge, scrollable conversation. We don't host chatroom transcripts here. Use links, but only if pertinent to the point you are making. This was excessive, and your point was already made, sir. As you say, one can visit a vegan chatroom if desired.]
    Last edited by Unboxxed; February 28, 2020 at 8:56 PM.

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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tildae View Post
    But I get it you are detached from society, and not interested in recruiting or talking about anyone that's bluepilled.
    A curious statement, that you say "you". Referring to us collectively, apart from yourself. As if you are on the outside, looking in.
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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Tildae, when is your term paper due?

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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tildae View Post
    I can't remember the Lord of the Rings film, but it was something like the orcs are increasing their numbers and soon it'll be everyone's fight so maybe not the best idea to keep away
    Oh we know that orcs are increasing, we know it VERY WELL. Its likely that we know about them better than they know about themselves... thanks to their amazing ability when it comes to analytically assess a situation...
    "Truth is enough." - Curt Doolittle
    "Truth, and violence to enforce it." - Eli Harman

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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Looks like this banana is peeled, don't slip on the skin!
    A man's only "safe space" be in his sovereignty, free from the illusions and misconceptions of a unity that only serves to bind him to tyranny and perdition.

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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    I think a feminist would argue their actions are holding men accoutable for how is holding someone accountable different for some form of revenge? Though the idea of "justice"? But the way you described it, it almost was as if the female perspective was "just do what you want until it hurts someone else" which is a phrase I hear alot, except when it becomes about them is personal. Though I can see a lot of that in society in general people not really giving a shit unless it concerns them. Maybe even MGTOW's neglect of creating influence for men's rights if going your own way individually is to break away from society and everyone it sucks up in the process. But maybe I am now misunderstanding, perhaps you could elaborate on that point.
    When the law courts convict based on 'social justice', how the public feels while ignoring evidence.
    When equality is espoused but women are executed from the heavy lifting in the construction sites, and men pay for drink and dinners.
    When men are mutilated, it is called 'circumcision' but 'female genital mutilation' for women.

    You get the picture.

    MGTOW is actually (to some extent) a scorched earth policy.

    I for one, don't care about being equal and fighting for my rights, because it won't work, and I wouldn't see enough change in my lifetime to motivate me to take action. It is better to let everything go to hell as far as I am concerned. I couldn't not give a fuck if some cunt suffers, whether her story is genuine or not genuine.

    If my health, wealth, and well-being is affected, I will take the necessary steps to protect myself.

    Although the issue really is, men only wake up to this at a later stage in life, which is really the injustice more than anything.

    The injustice is not that the world is unequal. That is evident enough. The injustice is the fact that men never knew the world was unequal until they started comparing notes. Which is what MGTOW is really, just a bunch of men getting together and saying, 'wait a minute, something isn't right, mind if we share notes?'
    A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

    Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
    Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

    The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself.

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    Re: Veganism's Influence of Social Relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    Although the issue really is, men only wake up to this at a later stage in life, which is really the injustice more than anything.

    The injustice is not that the world is unequal. That is evident enough. The injustice is the fact that men never knew the world was unequal until they started comparing notes. Which is what MGTOW is really, just a bunch of men getting together and saying, 'wait a minute, something isn't right, mind if we share notes?'
    Couldn't have said it better.
    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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