Thread: True forced loneliness

By strict definition, I am true forced loneliness.

I can't get a date and I am naturally unattractive, and this is a reason I went MGTOW. I see that a guy has to put in a lot of effort in order to be attractive and that game is a major aspect of the dating ritual. But I have decided not to do so as I really cannot be bothered to put in the effort to dress up and train for the benefit of a woman. Thus, I went MGTOW.


However, I also understand that marriage is a bum deal and that getting into a relationship saps power from a man, a relationship can be a chain that drags a man down to the depths and they are hard to break. That is also a reason I went MGTOW.


Thus, based on the negative point of view to true forced loneliness, does the above diminish my standing as a MGTOW in anyway?

I think you care a little too much about what other people think about your standing. As a man you made a decision, therefore you own the consequences. You decided it wasn't worth it, thus you DECIDED to go MGTOW. This TFL business doesn't really apply to you anymore because nobody forced you into your current situation.

Also you have to remember your life belongs to you. What other people think about it is immaterial.

Yes, in my opinion it diminishes your MGTOW standing to the point that you aren't one.

You are TFL. If you are OK with that, carry on, but don' t pretend to be MGTOW. That's like saying a prisoner in solitary is a hermit.

TFL are obsessed with obtaining female validation. You don't fall into that category based on your posting history.

Is it possible for TFLers to go from a half empty glass mindset to the glass is half full of mgtow? In my opinion yes, but it requires you start to love yourself more than what other think about you.

Any man who is a slave to the notion that true love comes from a woman is trapped in a self-imposed "forced" loneliness. If you had great looks and awe-inspiring appeal, you would still be no closer to being loved by a woman.

The key to happiness is to care less about what others think of you. Labels are a part of that. What do you think of yourself, in the absence of the opinions of others? What are your concerns about what you feel your obligations to others are?

You're not obligated to live the life others think you should live. If they think you're something in particular, and you're not -- then it's their error, not yours.

Are you MGTOW? Are you Incel? Are you TFL? No one cares.

Do you contribute meaningfully to the site, do you reflect and learn and grow, do you get closer to what YOU want in life? THIS is what matters.

Yes, in my opinion it diminishes your MGTOW standing to the point that you aren't one.

You are TFL. If you are OK with that, carry on, but don' t pretend to be MGTOW. That's like saying a prisoner in solitary is a hermit.

Hoser I think that only stands if there is such a thing as absolute, unassailable TFL. I think that there is always a voluntary component to it, even if it is very small.

Veering into philosophy here, but is it possible to be incontrovertibly alone if it's not what you want deep down?

Thus, based on the negative point of view to true forced loneliness, does the above diminish my standing as a MGTOW in anyway?

I think it might do somewhat if you cared about it unduly. Fair enough to be curious about it though.

Originally Posted by chbedok

By strict definition, I am true forced loneliness.

I can't get a date and I am naturally unattractive, and this is a reason I went MGTOW. I see that a guy has to put in a lot of effort in order to be attractive and that game is a major aspect of the dating ritual. But I have decided not to do so as I really cannot be bothered to put in the effort to dress up and train for the benefit of a woman. Thus, I went MGTOW.


However, I also understand that marriage is a bum deal and that getting into a relationship saps power from a man, a relationship can be a chain that drags a man down to the depths and they are hard to break. That is also a reason I went MGTOW.


Thus, based on the negative point of view to true forced loneliness, does the above diminish my standing as a MGTOW in anyway?

The implication in what you're describing is that you could up your game and perhaps date if you really wanted to, but you don't.

You made the decision not to, and you also don't seem to crave female attention.

I really don't think you fall into the TFL category if we're using the strictest meaning of the term.

Are you alone because you CHOSE to go your own way? Or because nobody want to be with you?

I know some extremely ugly losers with girlfriends. The're so blue-pill they would never leave ANY woman, no matter what. I've always been semi-attractive and never had a problem getting a girl.. nowadays, i just dont want one. It's funny to see a friend or family member's reaction when i tell them i am not lonely and this {my life of solitude} is all by design. Anyways..

If these guys i speak of can get a girl or LTR, i'm sure you could too.. if you actually wanted it. Being MGTOW is a choice and usually means you dont want one.

Originally Posted by Da Ma-Niac

Are you alone because you CHOSE to go your own way? Or because nobody want to be with you?

At first, I went my own way when no one wanted to be with me. But I became MGTOW AFTER I figured out that the only woman I need is just a mouse click away, and that I had other things I wanted to do before I raised a child never.

I would say I had always been someone who valued my freedom above all else, took a while to figure that out.

TFLers = Have romantic thoughts of becoming a white knight and putting on the chains to serve a woman

As a former white knight I can safely say that it is not worth the pain, suffering, and social backlash to "serve" women. You are on point to value your freedom and to realize you are complete as a lone man.

Lets all be honest here. The question from the OP would not exist if the vast majority of men had not been thoroughly brain washed into believing in external validation through females. The only reason why the OP is questioning whether he is a true Mgtow or a TFL is due to female validation. The premise of TFL is based on not being able to receive the perceived value of female validation. One of the responses saying the OP is not a Mgtow only exists due to female validation.

Female validation may have been valid at one point in time I assume, but who knows. However, it is now 2017. TAKE A LOOK at what the vast majority of females have to offer and who they are, AND THEN ask yourself why you think a man that ''cannot'' get attention from them is less in any way. I can get dates if I wanted to. I met a girl in December but when I weighed up the pros and cons, freedom won. However, the outcome was still the same as the guy that may not be getting attention, or couldn't get dates. This external female validation is a cancer. It is responsible for suicides of young men, violence between men, shaming between men, and it does nothing for a mans self esteem. Ive known of guys that wanted to kill themselves because they never had a gf....

IF we lived in a time where the vast majority of women were loyal, honest, non promiscuous, honorable, feminine and deep, then seeking a little validation from them may have a place somewhere but that's still a maybe. I also understand why it exists, it's partly due to the hunter instinct and copulation. It's seen all throughout the animal kingdom, but unlike peacocks, we can go beyond instincts..

I know men that would label you as some kind of legend for sleeping with a single Mom, but we all know that a guy could invent the worlds greatest cure for illness but other men would look down on him for not having a gf. The man that slept with 100 random girls would be praised just as much, if not more than a man that cured cancer. That is the power of female validation, but it is men that keep this powers influence circulating.

Originally Posted by Thomas Covenant

Hoser I think that only stands if there is such a thing as absolute, unassailable TFL. I think that there is always a voluntary component to it, even if it is very small.

Honestly, I know fuck all about TFL. I'm only going by the literal words. If loneliness is being forced upon you then it is a bad thing. Something you need to address and not pretend doesn't exist because you decide to call yourself MGTOW instead. Otherwise the first twat that is nice to you, you end up buying her a car

MGTOW by choice is wonderful. MGTOW because you can't get a woman is a dangerous place to be.

My personal take on this is that labels don't matter. Men are way too concerned where they might be in the greek alphabet. Or whether they're TFL or MGTOW or whatever the fuck else. It doesn't matter. The universe doesn't care. There's no deeper meaning to life. Just do whatever the hell you want and fuck anyone who says "you can't do that because X" or "that makes you X". Let them think what they want. Their thoughts and feelings don't matter. They themselves don't matter. The only thing that matters is what YOU want, how you get what you want and how you want to live your life. That's it. Tune out the noise.

Imo this "I'm alphhhhaaaaaa you're all beta/omega/Tfl virgins lolololol" bs comes from men who still act on their dominance instict (aka nether apes). As if in this rat race called life it matters what kind of "position" you hold. A position, mind you, that is judged according to gynocentric standards. But sure, keep running on that hedonistic treadmill and see where it takes you. Meanwhile others are checking out and ghosting the system because we've stopped giving a fuck. We beat up the guy holding that carrot on a stick and ate it because it's not worth getting worked up about.

Originally Posted by chbedok

Thus, based on the negative point of view to true forced loneliness, does the above diminish my standing as a MGTOW in anyway?

In my opinion it does not. I think it is normal that you ask yourself such questions.

TFL --> Being unhappy about being single and talking about it.
MGTOW --> Choosing to remain single and talking about it.

I guess where the communities would differ is if you got a girlfriend. In the TFL communitiy you would probably get a lot of respect. You would be cheered on to continue the relationship no matter what.
Here people would advise you to leave the relationship or at least to be cautionary about it.

The litmus test is how you would act if a girl you desired would offer you a relationship. Would you be able be smart about it? To maintain borders? Would you be able to choose? Or would your instincts guide you to raising an unwanted child in no time?

I think it is good to think about this. If you doubt yourself in this regard it is good to keep this in mind whenever you start to develop feelings for a girl.

Through my experiences with girls I have learned when I am in control, and when I am losing it.
Before I learned about the risks involved I always continued my relationships even if I lost control, now that I know what I'm dealing with I cut contact at that exact same point.

You have to make a few distinguishes here. First of all, I think the concept of TFL is different from that of of "incel" (involuntary celibate). Most young dudes just want to get laid like chad thunderstorm. That means: having a few chicks they regularly fuck and a bunch of one-night stands with supermodels and the girl is out in the morning. That is the student/college life that tv shows and movies predicate us.

For older experienced guys, it's already obvious that this doesn't happen much. Yes, it does happen for the girls because they all want the same guy. The top-dog guys have such a polygamous sex life. The rest of the guys maybe get lucky sometimes... Now, the older woman get, the more money comes into the equation. Hence, girls go out looking for a boyfriend.

So, when you're 13yo and your hormones start working, you will probably stay incel and devoid of sex for 10 years until in your 20's. Then the perception changes from sex to a relationship. Then, the girls will go hunt for a provider. If you can't get a relationship in your 20's, you're probably really TFL.

This all depends heavily on your location. In my home city, there are almost no woman so it's only natural that most men are TFL's. They are prostitutes around, so they get sex. But for a relationship they have to import a wife. You can just relocate to a place with more woman and you won't be TFL anymore. So you can say that TFL is more a mindset, but in fact it's just a result of your environment. If you go to nursing-school as a hetero-male, you will probably find a girl. If you go into IT or engineering, you'll have far more problems.

For most guys, it takes a lot of time to find a partner. You have to go to events, festivals, parties, you have to make friends who have friends.... If you don't do this and just keep on gaming and watching television, it's only normal that you end up MGTOW. It takes (lots of) effort to find a partner.

In my opinion, you are MGTOW if you don't go looking out for a relationship because you don't care, or when you have reclined demands from girls. You're TFL if you're putting in the effort to find a relationship but don't succeed after x-amount of time. Most guys can't take their smartphone and call a girl to have sex with, or go out and find a slut to fuck that night. This makes most guys "incel". They can't get intimacy on demand.

Originally Posted by Neo

Lets all be honest here. The question from the OP would not exist if the vast majority of men had not been thoroughly brain washed into believing in external validation through females. The only reason why the OP is questioning whether he is a true Mgtow or a TFL is due to female validation. The premise of TFL is based on not being able to receive the perceived value of female validation. One of the responses saying the OP is not a Mgtow only exists due to female validation.

Female validation may have been valid at one point in time I assume, but who knows. However, it is now 2017. TAKE A LOOK at what the vast majority of females have to offer and who they are, AND THEN ask yourself why you think a man that ''cannot'' get attention from them is less in any way. I can get dates if I wanted to. I met a girl in December but when I weighed up the pros and cons, freedom won. However, the outcome was still the same as the guy that may not be getting attention, or couldn't get dates. This external female validation is a cancer. It is responsible for suicides of young men, violence between men, shaming between men, and it does nothing for a mans self esteem. Ive known of guys that wanted to kill themselves because they never had a gf....

IF we lived in a time where the vast majority of women were loyal, honest, non promiscuous, honorable, feminine and deep, then seeking a little validation from them may have a place somewhere but that's still a maybe. I also understand why it exists, it's partly due to the hunter instinct and copulation. It's seen all throughout the animal kingdom, but unlike peacocks, we can go beyond instincts..

I know men that would label you as some kind of legend for sleeping with a single Mom, but we all know that a guy could invent the worlds greatest cure for illness but other men would look down on him for not having a gf. The man that slept with 100 random girls would be praised just as much, if not more than a man that cured cancer. That is the power of female validation, but it is men that keep this powers influence circulating.

Well said man

TFL/Incel just means someone (a) won't pay for sex or (b) can't afford to pay for sex.
Anyone with $150 is not TFL/Incel... they just have different spending priorities.

If they say "But what about relaaaaaaaationship?"

You want a good relationship with a loyal partner who'll never let you down?

Get a dog.

A dog will run into a burning building to find you because you're the guy who fed him.

A woman will leave you because you got laid off from work.

chbedok you really don't strike me as a TFL'er. Okay sure you may feel that you are unattractive to women and even dating may be a bit of a long shot for you. However what you really need to ask yourself is "are you desperately wanting a relationship or marriage with a woman or do you want to just get laid"? Now if you are desperate for that relationship and are just going MGTOW to fill a void in your life, then that is being a TFL and not truly happy. However if your just wanting to get laid, then your best off to suck it up and do like I do in a dry spell and hire in an escort for a couple hundred buck.

Trust me when I say this, I am no Chad Thundercock, however I am about average as far as looks goes. I have gotten laid a bunch of times through dating and such, however I even have my dry spells. Now a little secret is that you can be a 4 out of 10, however you will quickly move to a solid 7 or 8 for most women if you earn enough money. The trouble is do you really want a woman that finds your wallet attractive and not you as a person or even looks? Another thing to ask yourself is "what reason would you want to be in a relationship"? The fact is that most (if not all) women only bring pussy to the table in a relationship. If you want a give and take relationship that is more on equal grounds, have a male friend rent a room from you or the other way around. Better yet if you can, get a dog, then you will have a fulfilling relationship. If your looking to get laid, rent a motel room and get on the internet and just hire an escort. Main thing is that you save your money, improve your earnings and do things that you like to do. Go out and enjoy life and don't worry about what women think of you or for that fact what anyone thinks of you. After all it is your life, so worry about how you feel about yourself and not what others think.