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  1. #1
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    Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    If you are a man who is new to the red pill, and all of this MGTOW stuff seems too extreme, please consider the following:

    Assuming tradcon values through a red-pill lens, marriage is still an exchange of sexual access from the woman, and commitment to provision from the man. Lets stick with that. For any deal to be fair, both parties must either be stuck with their commitment or be free to extract themselves from the agreement with equal measure. Any red-pill aware man realizes that modern marriage violates this concept of fairness in favor of the woman.

    In case your really new however, legal marriage binds you to your provisioning roll, all the while the woman is free of her responsibility of providing sex. In fact, she is free of her side of the agreement starting on the honeymoon. She can cut you off the very next day. If you so much as complain, then in the eyes of the modern world, you are being misogynistic pig. Clearly conventional marriage is not a solution to your tradcon ideals. It is in fact marriage to the state. Your chosen god has nothing to do with it.

    The only way to achieve your tradcon goals are to do what some of the hippies, starting in California, have been doing. That being they have a commitment ceremony in lieu of a state sanctioned marriage. Depending on your jurisdiction, this may still bind in the same way a state sanctioned marriage does. Choose where you live wisely.

    Now that you have your plan, all you have to do is find your woman. Remember, you are going to keep the deal fair, so write your dating profile accordingly. Make sure she knows that the minute she turns off the sex spigot, you are withdrawing your provisioning. Also, get a prenup that agrees that you will get any children that are yielded from the relationship as you are the provider and by herself she is unable to care for them. You did after all commit to provide in exchange for sexual access did you not? That includes the fruits of such access does it not?

    We all know that such a prenup would never be enforced in this gynocentric world. Even still, just try to find a woman that would agree to sign such an agreement.

    If you are sane and rational however, and not thinking with your dick, you will have to agree that the above arrangement is minimally fair to both parties. You will have to disabuse yourself of the fact that the modern world has things so twisted. That is the only reason why what is written above seems so odd.

    So stick to this minimally fair plan. You will never find a modern woman to agree to these terms. Welcome to MGTOW.

  2. #2
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    I narrowed it down to run, or BURN!

    There's no workable solution with a tyrant, especially one that doesn't know they're a tyrant! Tyranny is all they know.

  3. #3
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    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    I approach it a different way. Let me draw an analogy.

    Let's say you fall in love with a particular car. It's cute, it's hot, it's got lots of horsepower, and it makes you feel great when you drive it. The color of the one at the local dealer is perfect. No one's claimed it yet. It's just sitting there, waiting. You're ready to jump...

    ...and then someone comes along and tells you that half the people who buy these cars wind up having far more trouble with them than they ever thought possible. Lots of maintenance, things always going wrong, they're totally unpredictable.

    Moreover, if you do buy this car, you can not buy a second car and relegate this one to weekend fun. No, this car has to be your only one -- your last one.

    Furthermore, you are not allowed to sell the car. You own it for life. You must maintain it despite all its idiosyncrasies, put up with its odd behavior, and never look at another car again.

    No one in his right mind would buy that car. Only people who are self-destructive, stupid, or both would buy a car like that.

    Now, we're talking about a car here. A collection of metal and plastic and rubber. Yet, the same people who would run from such a car as fast as they could, often consider marriage to someone of the opposite sex as somehow (magically) more-justifiable and less-risky, despite the failure numbers being identical, and despite the ramifactions of marriage failure being orders of magnitude more-severe than car failure.

    And then, that fifty percent number: That doesn't include people who've chosen to stay married and miserable. So, the really important figure isn't the divorce rate; it's the misery rate. Unfortunately, this is not knowable. But we can safely state that it's at least one percent higher than the divorce rate. From that assumption we can say that a man has a less-than-even chance of not being miserable, should he choose to marry.

    At that point, it's up to the individual to process that data in a logical, rational fashion, and act appropriately. But that's all on him; we can not control that process. (That's why "I told you so" was invented.)

    I think that's the way to approach it. Hit people with real numbers and facts: "This marriage-and-children thing simply doesn't work at least half the time. Choose wisely; your very life is in the balance."

  4. #4
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    It is easy to say to undecided lurkers the following:
    "There is nothing we can gain by you listening to what we say.
    There is no movement going here.
    There is no politics...
    And nothing to sell.

    We are just warning you like a lighthouse in the fog. And we are even doing it for free, as volunteers.
    Proceed at you own peril into the gynoinfected waters of shallow reefs.

    We promise we wont say I told you so when you come back broken after a decade of suffering. MGTOW will be here enjoying life in freedom, meanwhile.

    Dont worry. Women are a lot better teachers than we are...

    Reality doesnt care what you chose to beleive. It always win at the end."

  5. #5
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    Quote Originally Posted by kru-kut View Post
    I approach it a different way. Let me draw an analogy.

    Let's say you fall in love with a particular car. It's cute, it's hot, it's got lots of horsepower, and it makes you feel great when you drive it. The color of the one at the local dealer is perfect. No one's claimed it yet. It's just sitting there, waiting. You're ready to jump...

    ...and then someone comes along and tells you that half the people who buy these cars wind up having far more trouble with them than they ever thought possible. Lots of maintenance, things always going wrong, they're totally unpredictable.

    Moreover, if you do buy this car, you can not buy a second car and relegate this one to weekend fun. No, this car has to be your only one -- your last one.

    Furthermore, you are not allowed to sell the car. You own it for life. You must maintain it despite all its idiosyncrasies, put up with its odd behavior, and never look at another car again.

    No one in his right mind would buy that car. Only people who are self-destructive, stupid, or both would buy a car like that.

    Now, we're talking about a car here. A collection of metal and plastic and rubber. Yet, the same people who would run from such a car as fast as they could, often consider marriage to someone of the opposite sex as somehow (magically) more-justifiable and less-risky, despite the failure numbers being identical, and despite the ramifactions of marriage failure being orders of magnitude more-severe than car failure.

    And then, that fifty percent number: That doesn't include people who've chosen to stay married and miserable. So, the really important figure isn't the divorce rate; it's the misery rate. Unfortunately, this is not knowable. But we can safely state that it's at least one percent higher than the divorce rate. From that assumption we can say that a man has a less-than-even chance of not being miserable, should he choose to marry.

    At that point, it's up to the individual to process that data in a logical, rational fashion, and act appropriately. But that's all on him; we can not control that process. (That's why "I told you so" was invented.)

    I think that's the way to approach it. Hit people with real numbers and facts: "This marriage-and-children thing simply doesn't work at least half the time. Choose wisely; your very life is in the balance."
    If marriage were a motor sport, you'd be entering the rally of life driving something like this:



    We're MGTOW! WE DON'T DRIVE, WE FLY!


  6. #6
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    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    If marriage were a motor sport, you'd be entering the rally of life driving something like this:

    True, except the poor bastard would be the horse, not the driver.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    The only thing wrong with that image as example of marriage is that no woman would endure such a crapy car.
    No, the man has to pull at least an SUV.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    Marriage contract: Man gets intimacy, woman gets security.

    How it works:

    1. Her responsibility: The intimacy is bait - it wanes then stops in the marriage. Expecting her to "put out" is rape.
    2. His responsibility: The resources from the man MUST keep coming. After intimacy wanes, after it's gone and even after SHE is gone!

    Here is how it would work in the real world:

    Work contract: I get paid $1000 per week to build some unit piece of equipment, call them zots. If I slowed down, I might get reprimand but if I keep slowing down, I will get fired. No more pay. If I leave the company voluntarily, aside from a very short serverance or termination pay (after adequate service length) I stop getting paid because I am no longer producing zots - there is not any longer "performance of contract".

    If employers faced the same contractual hypocrisy marrying men face, would a single man get hired?

    No. Not until industry raised the system to the ground, or just moved elsewhere - to a place where it could do business and survive.

    MGTOW is men doing the same thing: walking away from a stupid shit contract for one reason and one reason only: survival.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  9. #9

    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    MGTOW is the safest option for a man who wants full control over his time and resources. Tradcon does not have a workable response (in 2019) to grievances laid out by the (male) casualties of society. For me this extends far beyond the relations of man and woman but the sacred contract between man and culture at large. The liberation happens when one takes a step back and says "hey mate, what's in it for me?"

    It's awesome people are continuing their journey on this site no matter how they found themselves here.
    because even solitude is better than evil company. - Bartolomeo Scala

  10. #10
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    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    A long time ago, marriage actually used to mean that a man had rights. It used to mean that a wife had to obey her husband. Now that our contemporary society has torn that down, marriage isn't worth the paper it's printed on anymore. All it does is get men on the hook for alimony.

    Sometimes I think I was born years too late, and I'd rather have been born in Japan years ago in a culture where men were respected and the wife knew her place and her role was to be her husband's helper in life. You don't have that in America anymore. I saw a documentary about Amish people once. They interviewed an Amish girl from the most conservative sect. She said "I believe my purpose in life is to be my husband's helper." In civilizations long ago and in some third-world cultures today, that was the order of things. And that's what women were designed for. But when women got the vote and started entering the workforce, society started crumbling and they have gotten far away from the roles they were meant to have. Men are still fulfilling their roles but western women aren't.

  11. #11
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    Quote Originally Posted by MGTOW Technician View Post
    A long time ago, marriage actually used to mean that a man had rights. It used to mean that a wife had to obey her husband. Now that our contemporary society has torn that down, marriage isn't worth the paper it's printed on anymore. All it does is get men on the hook for alimony.

    Sometimes I think I was born years too late, and I'd rather have been born in Japan years ago in a culture where men were respected and the wife knew her place and her role was to be her husband's helper in life. You don't have that in America anymore. I saw a documentary about Amish people once. They interviewed an Amish girl from the most conservative sect. She said "I believe my purpose in life is to be my husband's helper." In civilizations long ago and in some third-world cultures today, that was the order of things. And that's what women were designed for. But when women got the vote and started entering the workforce, society started crumbling and they have gotten far away from the roles they were meant to have. Men are still fulfilling their roles but western women aren't.
    The single biggest contributing factor in this clusterfuck is men treating other men like shit! Every time a man saddles up with a married woman he's empowering gynocracy and tearing down what our forefathers took eons to perfect, he's the indirect culprit and linchpin to all that's wrong today. The more self control men practice with civility and respect for mutual civic law, the less stolen power and authority women will have to destroy us.

    All shit comes to a screeching halt when a man claims his sovereignty and mastery over this world and takes means necessary to secure it. In short order we fuck ourselves when we fuck our brothers.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Boar's Avatar
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    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    Quote Originally Posted by MGTOW Technician View Post
    I saw a documentary about Amish people once. They interviewed an Amish girl from the most conservative sect. She said "I believe my purpose in life is to be my husband's helper." In civilizations long ago and in some third-world cultures today, that was the order of things. And that's what women were designed for.
    I live in an Amish community. And I am seeing increasing number of Amish girls publicly using iPhones. Talk about tradcons on Tinder......

  13. #13
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: Where Tradcon values yield to MGTOW

    So stick to this minimally fair plan. You will never find a modern woman to agree to these terms. Welcome to MGTOW.
    Interesting post - very interesting.

    But I would like to contribute the following:

    Your assessment of the sex for provisioning is faulty on many levels.
    Women do not open their legs for provisioning - but for high quality genetics, or brute force (in the sense that two lions fight each other and the lioness opens her legs at the end to the one who won the fight).

    Money and resources are a human invasion and cannot override the primal sexual instinct part. If you put a woman in a situation where only ugly men were the ones with resources - she would find a way to sleep with high quality genetic man and pass her child off as the someone else's.

    And this is the modern world where a man simply cannot provide for a woman. What can you or I provide to an even 5/10 female in the modern world? They already get your 3 month salary in one night by putting on a little make up and skimpy out fit and opening their legs for the right bidder.

    So your assessment is wrong when you take into account modernity and primacy of sexual instinct.

    Lastly, MGTOW (as I understand it) is trying to appeal to a larger ''ideal''. This ''ideal'' as I see it should be that both men and women should enjoy as much as possible without any social stigma. Both men and women (in particular women) in an ''ideal'' world should be more open minded about having sex with different kinds of people from a variety of backgrounds and sexualities.

    Maybe my take on MGTOw is unique, but for me, this is what I mean when I talk of a ''fair playing field''. Although it remains an ideal.
    A mother cannot raise a boy to be a man, not because he needs a father figure; but because she favours team vagina over her own son.

    Tradcon women are the most manipulative of all kinds of women, because they infect you with false hope.
    Radfems are your best friend, because they hate you and verbalise it - that's honesty!

    The red pill rage is a process which takes many many years - so be kind and patient with yourself.


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