Thread: This guy is MGTOW and probably doesn't even know it.

I'm fascinated by off grid small house living. Seems like the ultimate way to throw a big F-U to the world. Have a small house on land thats paid for. Work only when you want to at something you enjoy.....

Here's a guy doing just that. His videos are entertaining. He built a small cabin on land he owns for under $5k

Home - Simple Solar Homesteading

I've seen a few documentaries on tiny houses and they seem like a great idea - if you're that type of person. Most of the ones I had seen were folks (some were couples) who dropped their trailer on a friend's property so they were off the grid in that they were paying no property taxes and had no real address.
They'd pay their friends cash off the books for renting the land and for hooking up to their water and electric. Not a bad way to do things but I think I'd go stir crazy in a place that small.
I've also heard of folks living on the water to also avoid hassles with the state.

Originally Posted by Achmed

I've also heard of folks living on the water to also avoid hassles with the state.

Four words for you about that: Seven Seas Cruising Association

I think my current 30-footer is too small to live aboard, but I'm going to try some extended trips on it this summer. I've seen some bigger boats, like 36 to 40 feet, that I'm pretty sure I could live aboard, especially down in the Islands.

Hey Grimjack, that small house living does look pretty cool. Myself I have mostly been thinking about a travel trailer to live in. I just like that it can be moved easily and if space rent is too high, or I don't like the area I can just pick up and move. However I must admit that most of my reason for this is wanting to be a small target. I figure if I am living in a place that has little value then most people (such as an ex or .gov) will likely leave it alone, being the cost would outweigh the reward.

However I have also looked into manufactured homes on a piece of land. Nothing fancy, just a small plot of land in the desert near some small town. The single wide manufactured homes offer a bit more space than the tiny houses or travel trailers, however are still cheap to move if need be. Living off the grid is another story all together. Depending on where you are at, some things might not be possible or feasible like water or sewage. For example some places in the desert you would have to drill real deep to get a fresh water well if there is water to be drilled. Septic tanks can be a real pain in the ass and costly. Remember that you have to get them pumped and they do break. Now remember this does vary depending on what part of the country your in.

Now electricity can be set up for off the grid living pretty easily these days. Between solar panels and windmills you can get some pretty good power buzzing through your place. The problem comes in with storing that power, batteries can get expensive. Just a draw of 150W can train 4 deep cycle truck batteries in about 14 hours. Now yes you can use LED lights, have a small LED TV for videos and such, however three major things that suck power that are used a lot. Refrigerator is the major one, that damn thing turns on and watch the power get sucked right out. The next is the coffee pot, it is surprising how much power they use while brewing or even just keeping your coffee warm. Microwave ovens, thankfully like the coffee pot this can be controlled a bit more. However they still suck a lot of power over a short time. So with electricity you will want to look into batteries and even a small generator to keep the lights on.

Originally Posted by The Prisoner

Now electricity can be set up for off the grid living pretty easily these days. Between solar panels and windmills you can get some pretty good power buzzing through your place. The problem comes in with storing that power, batteries can get expensive. Just a draw of 150W can train 4 deep cycle truck batteries in about 14 hours. Now yes you can use LED lights, have a small LED TV for videos and such, however three major things that suck power that are used a lot. Refrigerator is the major one, that damn thing turns on and watch the power get sucked right out. The next is the coffee pot, it is surprising how much power they use while brewing or even just keeping your coffee warm. Microwave ovens, thankfully like the coffee pot this can be controlled a bit more. However they still suck a lot of power over a short time. So with electricity you will want to look into batteries and even a small generator to keep the lights on.

Boaters - live-aboards without dock power, and cruisers who lie at anchor - have the same problem with electricity, and in many cases, we learn to live without or we find better solutions if we can. For instance, refrigeration - a little 4-cubic-foot dorm refrigerator will use close to 200 amp-hours minimum (at 12 volts) in 24 hours of use; an "ice-chest" style portable 12-volt freezer like the Engels, while much smaller (up to 2 cubic feet or so), will use on the order of 60 - 100 amp-hours; a full-out marine-style "holding plate" refrigeration system, like the Technautics "Cool Blue," can keep your beer cold and your ice cream hard-frozen for maybe 30 amp-hours per day. Downside - it's expensive, and in an off-grid cabin, you might have to build the fridge-box yourself.

A plug-in coffee maker would be a real waste of battery power, and a coffee-warmer would be worse. I use an AeroPress coffee-press that makes one cup at a time; I heat the water over my Origo alcohol stove, and I heat enough to fill a thermos bottle plus make that all-important first cup. No electricity needed.

Even a compact microwave oven uses 1200 watts at the plug, or 100 amps at 12 volts - and it has to go through an inverter to make 12-volt DC into 120-volt AC, which means an even greater power-draw. I was shocked at the price of an inverter suitable for running a microwave oven - like, $800 or more (for a 'pure-sine' inverter, which the microwave needs). 10-15 minutes of microwave use may suck 30 amp-hours or more out of your battery bank.

All things that need to be kept in mind, going off-grid....

Houses are bigger now days, least in the US. And we tend to fill them up, whatever size we have. Can't argue with that.

But living steady in a tiny house, that'd be tough. Besides getting your laundry done elsewhere, and going to the store a lot, where would your gun safe go? The rolling tool box, the chain saw? Where would I park my bikes?


I'd like one for a guest home. I figure visitors wouldn't be tempted to stay too long! Having one on a friends land for part time use would be mighty sweet too. But to live in one full time, you'd have to give up a lot.

Originally Posted by BeijaFlor

Boaters - live-aboards without dock power, and cruisers who lie at anchor - have the same problem with electricity, and in many cases, we learn to live without or we find better solutions if we can. For instance, refrigeration - a little 4-cubic-foot dorm refrigerator will use close to 200 amp-hours minimum (at 12 volts) in 24 hours of use; an "ice-chest" style portable 12-volt freezer like the Engels, while much smaller (up to 2 cubic feet or so), will use on the order of 60 - 100 amp-hours; a full-out marine-style "holding plate" refrigeration system, like the Technautics "Cool Blue," can keep your beer cold and your ice cream hard-frozen for maybe 30 amp-hours per day. Downside - it's expensive, and in an off-grid cabin, you might have to build the fridge-box yourself.

A plug-in coffee maker would be a real waste of battery power, and a coffee-warmer would be worse. I use an AeroPress coffee-press that makes one cup at a time; I heat the water over my Origo alcohol stove, and I heat enough to fill a thermos bottle plus make that all-important first cup. No electricity needed.

Even a compact microwave oven uses 1200 watts at the plug, or 100 amps at 12 volts - and it has to go through an inverter to make 12-volt DC into 120-volt AC, which means an even greater power-draw. I was shocked at the price of an inverter suitable for running a microwave oven - like, $800 or more (for a 'pure-sine' inverter, which the microwave needs). 10-15 minutes of microwave use may suck 30 amp-hours or more out of your battery bank.

All things that need to be kept in mind, going off-grid....

I am going to have to look into some of the stuff your talking about on here, I really like the fridge and the Origo alcohol stove. On the truck I just used a Coleman electric cooler, which does fine to keep drinks and sandwich fixings cold. Now being a company driver means that you have to put up with some stupid rules at times, for example one place would not let you have over a 1,200 watt inverter. So for around $120 bucks I got a 1,200 watt inverter (no it is not a pure-sine wave inverter) and a cheap 700 watt microwave oven from wal mart. Now I actually used that microwave for over two years on the truck and about another year at home now. So far it still runs good and does the job I need. I guess you would be best off with the pure-sine wave inverter if your using the microwave a lot and other items that needed it.

However important notes on using an inverter. I have a 700 watt microwave oven n a 1,200 watt inverter, draw shows at around 850 watts. So this means that if I forgot to start the truck before the microwave then I would have to look for a jump start. With an inverter the best practice is to figure out how much power you will want to draw at one time, for example 1,000 watts, then double that when looking for an inverter. The reason is that those parts inside the inverter heat up, that heating and cooling will eventually cause things to break inside. By doubling the wattage of the inverter that is needed means it will run cooler and parts will have less stress on them. Also remember that drawing from a DC circuit needs heavy gauge wires. I've seen a lot of trucks burn down because a driver thinks he can get away with 8 gauge wire on a 2,000 watt inverter. You can look at the formula at this link Wire Sizing Chart and Formula - RES Supply Now some of you probably already know this, however this is for those that don't. When electricity passes through something like a wire, even that wire has a certain amount of resistance to it. Now when electricity meets up with resistance it converts to either Heat or Light or both. So too small gauge of a wire means higher resistance which means more heat. I am not talking about the heat that will make you think the wire is warm, I am talking about burning your hand hot.

I really want to check out that Origo alcohol stove, that would be great on my truck. Alcohol then can serve two purposes on my truck, one for deicing my breaks and two for heating up my coffee. Thanks BeijaFlor you gave me few things to check out about that would go great with my truck. The only thing you and I differ on is the inverter, however you probably have more valuable stuff that needs that pure-sine wave than what I do. However that is something important to know, since some electrical things do need a pure-sine wave.

I would absolutely love to have something like this.

shit hits the fan, I escape to my solar shed out in the woods, grab the sks, and wait for the zombie apocalypse in total comfort.

I've realized lately that my house needs a fireplace. not for aesthetics, but for function. every year, the power has gone out for at least a day, and I have to evacuate my own fucking home because it will become ice bitch ball shrivilingly freezing. meanwhile, our stupid suburban home is surrounded by wood we could easily chop for a fireplace or a wood stove or fucking ANYTHING, if we had one.

A fireplace is no good, all your heat, and what warm air you do have just goes up the chimney. A woodstove's what you need to heat your house. I love mine, but they can be a slippery slope. Sure, you could set yourself up with a part time stove for a few hundred buck's, and if you did it right there'd never be a problem. But if you get it wrong and burn the place down, your insurance company is not going to be pleased to find out your house torched because of a quick and dirty woodstove. Stove's and pipe that meet code are going to cost a lot for something you might not use much.

Originally Posted by BeijaFlor

Four words for you about that: Seven Seas Cruising Association

I think my current 30-footer is too small to live aboard, but I'm going to try some extended trips on it this summer. I've seen some bigger boats, like 36 to 40 feet, that I'm pretty sure I could live aboard, especially down in the Islands.

I have looked into this too. The key to living aboard a relatively small vessal is to adopt the attitude that many New Yorkers do; your place is where you sleep and store stuff, you live in the city. In a live aboard situation, expecially in the islands, you live ashore for the most part and sleep aboard. The advantage is that when you get tired of a place you can move your stuff to a new location easily. There is also the advantage of spending periods of solitude at sea; a benefit which many may not appreciate, but which I do.

Originally Posted by BeijaFlor

Boaters - live-aboards without dock power, and cruisers who lie at anchor - have the same problem with electricity, and in many cases, we learn to live without or we find better solutions if we can. For instance, refrigeration - a little 4-cubic-foot dorm refrigerator will use close to 200 amp-hours minimum (at 12 volts) in 24 hours of use; an "ice-chest" style portable 12-volt freezer like the Engels, while much smaller (up to 2 cubic feet or so), will use on the order of 60 - 100 amp-hours; a full-out marine-style "holding plate" refrigeration system, like the Technautics "Cool Blue," can keep your beer cold and your ice cream hard-frozen for maybe 30 amp-hours per day. Downside - it's expensive, and in an off-grid cabin, you might have to build the fridge-box yourself.

A plug-in coffee maker would be a real waste of battery power, and a coffee-warmer would be worse. I use an AeroPress coffee-press that makes one cup at a time; I heat the water over my Origo alcohol stove, and I heat enough to fill a thermos bottle plus make that all-important first cup. No electricity needed.

Even a compact microwave oven uses 1200 watts at the plug, or 100 amps at 12 volts - and it has to go through an inverter to make 12-volt DC into 120-volt AC, which means an even greater power-draw. I was shocked at the price of an inverter suitable for running a microwave oven - like, $800 or more (for a 'pure-sine' inverter, which the microwave needs). 10-15 minutes of microwave use may suck 30 amp-hours or more out of your battery bank.

All things that need to be kept in mind, going off-grid....

An option for the motor home is to use an LP powered fridge. I had one that had three way options; AC, DC, or LP. The LP usage was not too bad to power the chiller.

Originally Posted by frog

A fireplace is no good, all your heat, and what warm air you do have just goes up the chimney. A woodstove's what you need to heat your house. I love mine, but they can be a slippery slope. Sure, you could set yourself up with a part time stove for a few hundred buck's, and if you did it right there'd never be a problem. But if you get it wrong and burn the place down, your insurance company is not going to be pleased to find out your house torched because of a quick and dirty woodstove. Stove's and pipe that meet code are going to cost a lot for something you might not use much.

A wood stove is the way to go over a fireplace. However, I heated a house in Alabama with a wood stove for several years and it got to be a hassle. I had to get up early every day to stoke the fire and warm up the house before the kids got up. And every night I had to bank the fire which resulted in the area of the house around the stove getting very hot.

There is a pellet furance that might be an option. It can burn wood pellets but the one my friends have burns dried corn. It has a very tiny fire, but heats the whole house. The pellets/corn feed automatically from a hopper and the ash is minimal.

Originally Posted by Mikediver

An option for the motor home is to use an LP powered fridge. I had one that had three way options; AC, DC, or LP. The LP usage was not too bad to power the chiller.

I believe there are commercially available fridges that can run on diesel too.

Pellet stoves are popular, and for you would probably be a better choice. But you would need a generator to go with it for when the power goes out. That's what a lot of eastern Oregon people do, and they have cold winters.

I run a woodstove and a monitor kerosene heater. Heating oil does the work when I'm gone or asleep, and I do fires when I'm around. They work very well together. Monitor's out of business, but I hear Toyo sells one just like it. Not many people run these things, but their great. When I told my neighbor I was thinking of buying one, he laughed, and said "hell frog, everybody in Alaska has one of those." That sold me, if it's good enough for Alaska, it's good enough for me.

Manufactured homes are also a viable option. I really like the park model homes available and at less than 500 sq ft they certainly fulfill the small house aspect I find so appealing:

Park Model RVs Motorhomes For Sale-New or Used on RV Trader

If you don't want to buy your own land or be away from everyone there are a lot of parks that you could live in. especially if you like Arizona and Florida. Most of these are age qualified, but as I am approaching 50 its not that big of a deal for me;

Retirement park model homes

I'm not interested in living in sub-zero weather so heating, while a small issue isn't the biggest I'd have....a small gas fireplace wold probably be more than enough.

I also like the idea of buying a travel trailer and living it that; Here are a few guys who have been doing it for years:

CheapRVliving.com

Mobilekodgers

It's not to hard to find blogs and stories of people living well on less than $24k a year. Here is a video of a guy who owned property in New York, got fed up and sold it. He bought land in the Texas Desert for almost nothing and has been living out there for years.

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Oh just FYI, if I am running to the woods due to a zombie apocalypse one of my weapons of choice would be a recurve bow and not a crossbow. Now it takes a little to learn how to use a bow properly. However once you can do that, then you can get off more shots with your bow if need be. Both have the advantage of being quite, so you won't attract too many zombies at once. With something like this, staying on the move would be the best thing to do, over staying put and defending the place.

Myself I think that I am going to stick with living in the desert or just some place in the south. I can always settle down near a gun and archery range where I can practice on zombie targets *snicker* and enjoy my retirement like that.

Originally Posted by The Prisoner

Oh just FYI, if I am running to the woods due to a zombie apocalypse one of my weapons of choice would be a recurve bow and not a crossbow. Now it takes a little to learn how to use a bow properly. However once you can do that, then you can get off more shots with your bow if need be. Both have the advantage of being quite, so you won't attract too many zombies at once. With something like this, staying on the move would be the best thing to do, over staying put and defending the place.

Myself I think that I am going to stick with living in the desert or just some place in the south. I can always settle down near a gun and archery range where I can practice on zombie targets *snicker* and enjoy my retirement like that.

I will keep this in mind in case of the zombie apocalypse. However, I don't think there is enough time between now and the zombie apocalypse for me to master the bow. I will have to stick with large magazine capacity pistols and a pump shotgun.

Even a tiny house needs running water. In the sticks, that usually means a well and septic tank.
For a well, I got nothing, but I have a quick and dirty way to get rid of the water once you do get some.

When my system quit, the county wanted a thousand gallon tank, and a huge amount of drain field. The local contractor would do one for four thousand back then. Today's price? Couldn't tell you, but it's got to be two or three times that now.


The system I replaced had a two hundred gallon tank, and forty feet of drain field at best. Now you put a family on this, and when it rain's a lot the system will fill up and take no more till the ground dry's out some. But with one or two people who don't use a lot of water it hardly ever backed up.
The thing is, unless your ground's harder than Toooooo9, you could dig a hole and drain field with hand tools if you had to. I'm not saying this is right, or that you should do it. I am saying you can do things cheap and get by if you have to.