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  1. #1

    the right to opt out is a basic human right

    The Right to Opt Out

    Various countries and the EU and the United Nations have for years debated what basic human rights are. They've come up with some things that make sense:

    • The right to live your life as you see fit (aka freedom)
    • The right to live free of dictatorship
    • The right to be fairly compensated for work.
    • The right to control your own body.


    There are many more, but you get the idea. There's another one that I think should be a recognized human right, and that is:

    The right to opt out.

    That's what we MGTOW are doing. We've learned what a raw deal dating and marriage is for men, and we've decided we're out. And we have every right to opt out, but it sure doesn't seem like others see it that way. Feminists seem to love to distort the truth. When Warren Farrell (a feminist and men's rights activist) went to speak at a university about ex soldiers suffering from PTSD, the feminists protested, branding him a “rape apologist.” They never explained how caring about men suffering the after affects of combat somehow makes someone in favor of rape. But they didn't need to. They are supported by hoards of fanatics who will instantly believe the “rape apologist” bullcrap the instant they here it, and will completely ignore what Farrell actually advocates.

    It's the same thing with MGTOW. We're simply invoking our right to opt out of the dating/marriage scam. Any reasonable person would respond to that with, “Okay, that's your right. You live as you choose.” However, we often don't deal with reasonable people. Instead of recognizing such a basic human right, the antis cherry pick and straw man us to death.

    It's quite natural that a man who got destroyed by marriage would hold some anger. Expecting him not to would be unreasonable. So such a man would go onto the old Reddit MGTOW sub and rant, “I was deployed in Iraq for 36 months only to come home to a wife who had cheated on me the whole time.” Let him throw in a few explicates if he needs to. He's earned it. We as MGTOW men understood his need to finally get it off his chest. The SJW assholes judging us did not. Being upset about the deplorable actions of an ex-wife or ex-girlfriend is NOT the same thing as hating on women. Other men ranted about how his ex-wife got knocked up by another man and then lied to her husband that he was the father. That's paternity fraud, not that our system cares. Some men who went through that ranted, and maybe used colorful language, to express how awful it feels to be betrayed like that. His self-expression falls under another human right, the right to free speech, not that the SJW types care about that.

    For many men, that Reddit MGTOW sub was the first place they ever had to express their pain. It was the first time in a man's life where he could express what he went through and others would give a damn. Everywhere else, you simply get blamed, as if you never have any right to be upset about anything. The SJW's “proved” that the MGTOW sub was misogyny by cherry picking the most angry and upset quotes and taking them out of context. Other times they created straw men from scratch. Not once did they ever address MGTOW's core: the right to opt out.

    They don't address our core because they can't. If they actually debated the real issue, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Duh! Of course we have the right to opt out. But the woketrash don't think we have human rights, since they don't even see us as human. According to them:


    • Men have no right to opt out of dating and marriage; any man who does that is judged a loser.
    • Men have no free speech rights, and especially have no right to express their pain. Any such expressions are warped by them into evil misogyny.
    • Women should never have to take responsibility for their own actions.


    According to them, if a woman gets knocked up by another man behind her husband's back, it's not a big deal. We see that as an ultimate act of betrayal. They see it as normal behavior. They're blinded by their instinct to seek supposedly better genes.

    The antis claim to be for human rights, but then they piss all over human rights. They piss on our right to opt out of a corrupt system and they piss on our right to express our feelings, especially when we express pain.

    They don't uphold our human rights because they don't see us as human. And they wonder why we don't want anything to do with them?
    Last edited by TigPlaze; September 15, 2021 at 7:37 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Excellent post. People like to talk about "obligations" to society (usually as a justification to curtail personal liberty), but my position is this: I pay my taxes and I don't infringe on anyone else's freedom; I owe society NOTHING beyond that.

  3. #3

    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Great read Tig but I have some opinions on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    Of course we have the right to opt out. But the woketrash don't think we have human rights, since they don't even see us as human. According to them:


    • Men have no right to opt out of dating and marriage; any man who does that is judged a loser.
    • Why do we discuss this and why do we even care? It's not like it will ever stop me from opting out, regardless of what the woketrash screeches about.
    • Men have no free speech rights, and especially have no right to express their pain. Any such expressions are warped by them into evil misogyny.
    • It seems to me that most MGTOW men choose to not speak at all. We just quietly walk off the plantation and watch it degenerate from a distance. Choosing to not say anything is free speech in my opinion.
    • Women should never have to take responsibility for their own actions.
    • It will backfire spectacularly on them but, again, I'm watching from a distance. In forums of the past, we discussed a lot about NFG. If you let them live rent free in your head, it will be a burden for you always. In the end, it doesn't matter what they say, things won't change for me.


    They don't uphold our human rights because they don't see us as human. We uphold our own human rights by exercising our opting out, regardless of their opinion.
    I'm not disagreeing with you Tig, I just don't see the reason why it affects you so much what those insufferable cunts think. I don't value their opinions and I don't care what drama they choose to surruond themselves with. In my opinion, it's just the last twitches of their miserable existence.

  4. #4

    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris007 View Post
    Great read Tig but I have some opinions on this.

    I'm not disagreeing with you Tig, I just don't see the reason why it affects you so much what those insufferable cunts think. I don't value their opinions and I don't care what drama they choose to surruond themselves with. In my opinion, it's just the last twitches of their miserable existence.
    It's not that the woketrash have hurt me so much. Women in relationships definitely have, and not one of them ever owned up to her own personal responsibility for the relationship. It was always all on me, and if anything went wrong, it was my fault.

    But the woketrash insults pretty much just bounce off me. I expect pure horseshit from their mouths. My concern is the young dudes out there who listen to their crap and believe it and thus live their lives ashamed of who they are. I'm a man, and I'll never be ashamed of that. I live my life assuming no obligations to the feminist trash. The demanded that women be set free from their gender roles, but demanded that men uphold theirs. We are still massively judged by how much money we make; we're still expected to bear the high costs of dating while women do it for free; we're still expected to be the ones to defend our country if attacked. They're super hypocritical.

    Yes, I find the feminists' words annoying, but I don't take any of their stupidity to heart anymore. However, their terrorism has massively hurt other men. Thanks to feminists' meddling in our legal system, there are men in prison for rapes they did not commit. The feminists have absurdly expanded the definition of rape. It's supposed to mean forcing someone to have sex against their will. The feminists have distorted that to include consensual sex while having consumed alcohol. A man and a woman both could go out and get drunk together and then out of their own free will and fully conscious choose to have sex together. But the feminists will brand that rape, and never mind that the man was drinking too. The original intent of the the law was to make sure that someone didn't use alcohol to INCAPACITATE someone and thus force her to have sex. If she's passed out drunk and he bangs her, that's rape. If she's wide awake and drunk and agreeing to the sex, that's NOT rape. That's two drunk people consenting to sex. Yet, there are men in prison for those situations. There are men who got kicked out of college over that. So, I haven't been so massively hurt by feminism, but other men certainly have. The goal of feminism is to convict as many men as possible of rape, and it doesn't matter if he's guilty or not. If he didn't actually rape someone, he may have thought about it, so he's guilty. Or he may have had drunken sex with consent with someone, and the nut job feminists have a problem with that. So the innocent men sitting in prison for bullshit rape accusations are really hurt by those sick cunts.

  5. #5

    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by WPL View Post
    Excellent post. People like to talk about "obligations" to society (usually as a justification to curtail personal liberty), but my position is this: I pay my taxes and I don't infringe on anyone else's freedom; I owe society NOTHING beyond that.
    Sure, there are some obligations that go along with rights. If you go out driving, you're obligated to have a legitimate license from whatever state you're from and to have your car registered and to have insurance. You're obligated to follow the rules of the road. In the USA, you can't decide you like how they do it in Great Britain and suddenly start driving on the left side of the road. You're not allowed to drag race through a school zone. You're obligated to follow these laws to protect other people.

    But getting married, paying for dates, paying to support a woman are not obligations. Those are all things that should only be done willingly. With the feminists making it such a rotten deal, they should not be surprised that we don't want to play ball. But they are. They still live in their fantasy that men have it easy and women are oppressed.

  6. #6

    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    My concern is the young dudes out there who listen to their crap and believe it and thus live their lives ashamed of who they are.
    I hear what you're saying. I guess my view is skewed a bit by the fact that I'm 60 years old and that I have seen and experienced most of it. It has made me completely lose interest in anything the feminazis have to say. I have developed a strong sense of NFG and I'm happy to live my life on my terms, within the law.
    But you're right about trying to bring this to the forefront so the next generation of men can use our insight and learn from our mistakes.

  7. #7

    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris007 View Post
    I hear what you're saying. I guess my view is skewed a bit by the fact that I'm 60 years old and that I have seen and experienced most of it. It has made me completely lose interest in anything the feminazis have to say. I have developed a strong sense of NFG and I'm happy to live my life on my terms, within the law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris007 View Post
    But you're right about trying to bring this to the forefront so the next generation of men can use our insight and learn from our mistakes.
    Yes, I'm nearly as old as you and so a lot of this shit doesn't affect me. There was already some rabid feminist bullshit when I was on college, but it wasn't as atrocious as it is today. The feminist bullshit affects young men much worse than it did us. I still see a tremendous value in a university education, when it's done right! The original goals were about making a well-rounded person who knew a lot about the world that he lived in. The primary goals were not even to find a great-paying job for a graduate. The goals were to learn about science, math, literature, art, music, etc. We want our citizens to understand that the Earth is a sphere that orbits the sun, and why this creates different seasons depending on where you are in the world. You may not end up in a profession that specifically uses that particular knowledge, but the learning of knowledge for the sake of knowing it is worth it. The goals of a university education included the ability to write well, and especially to be able to use logic and critical thinking. So many people today are totally devoid of any critical thinking abilities that it's shocking. This includes the feminists, and not just the feminists, but many others.

    When I was in college, I didn't have a single class that I didn't get extremely interested in. I studied my brains out, not to get into a specific profession, but because I loved the knowledge. I loved learning more and more, and making myself a better person day by day. This is why it makes me sad that so many men may choose to avoid college these days. You can't blame them. The feminists have made the university a hostile place for men. Even if a male student just avoided feminists, he would still be required to take some of their propaganda classes, and he could still get whimsically thrown out of college by some vindictive woman who dreamed up some story. It's sick that a university, the very place that should be open to different ideas and debate, should uphold feminist dogma. No man should ever get kicked out of college on an accusation alone. The universities should never handle alleged rape situations. If a woman student accuses a man of raping her, the only thing the university should do is refer the matter to the criminal justice system. They should NOT kick the man out of school. If she has a class with him, they should let her transfer or take an incomplete if she doesn't want to see him.

    I saved my notes that I took on the day my professor defined the goals of higher education. I still have those notes in a file. Here they are:

    The Goals of Higher Education
    1. Ability to think abstractly and perform critical analysis.
    2. Acquire literacy in writing, reading, speaking, and listening.
    3. Ability to understand numerical data.
    4. Having a sense of the past.
    5. Intellectually at ease with science.
    6. Acquire the capacity to make informed and moral choices.
    7. Appreciation of the arts.
    8. International and multicultural experiences.
    9. Study in depth.


    You'll notice none of these have anything to do with accepting feminist propaganda. Feminism is a terrorism movement that has infiltrated our universities. It's absurd that someone can major in feminist terrorism (euphemistically called “gender studies”).

    You'll also notice that none of the goals of higher education have anything to do with getting into a high-paid career. However, someone could go after the goals of higher education while simultaneously finding a good career. For example, someone could take a biology class and realize they're interested in pathology. Then after getting their baccalaureate degree, they'll go into some kind of program to study pathology, perhaps as a masters or Ph.D. program, or they could simply get a job in that field and do that company's studies.

    In short, I see such high value in a university education that it infuriates me that feminists are working to keep that from men. It doesn't mean I'm against trade schools. Trade schools can be a great choice to get someone into a lucrative and fulfilling profession. I also see no reason why someone couldn't do both. You could get your 4-year baccalaureate degree and then go onto a trade school to learn your profession. If that's too long, you could just get a 2-year associate's degree and then do trade school. I just don't want to see the value of a university education taken away from men.

    I've rambled on enough, but I think you get my drift.

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    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Human rights are bullshit. Women should not have any rights at all. Even their right to live can be up for debate. Men can do whatever we want:

    get married or not
    sell our wives or not
    beat our wives or not

    Women are just property. They are not fully hu-MAN. Human rights is the biggest problem we have, especially when applied to women

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    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    The Right to Opt Out



    • The right to control your own body.


    This is where it all starts in my opinion. I have the right to pursue things that cause me pleasure and avoid things that cause me pain. I feel this is much easier the older you get. In my 20's and 30's I just had this drive to be of service to others (wife, job, family, etc) that around 40 just....stopped. I started expecting others to give back equally and SHOCKER almost none did.

    I now view everything I do as a choice. I choose how to interact with the world. Some things like driving, eating etc you can't avoid but you can still choose how you do it. I'm always attempting to bridge that gap between theory (control of myself) and reality with actual concrete steps.

    I save exclusively in bitcoin and eventually will only transact in it once it continues its inexorable path to world usage. Depending on where I'm at I'll pay taxes or not. Most likely I'll spend below any real taxable rates once I stop working so it's not a big concern for me.

    I pay rent in cash also. No other bills. I'm not interested in a house so this works for me. My hobbies are all outdoor activities so I dont have a tool collection or anything I need to safeguard. Hiking shoes and an inflatable paddleboard can fit in the back of my truck and go anywhere.

    Outside of my job I am about as opted out as I can get now. The huge decrease in stress from this can't be overstated. Not dating, few bills and the literal impossibility of some govt inflating savings away can be done at any age too.

  10. #10
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    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by patriarch View Post
    Human rights are bullshit. Women should not have any rights at all. Even their right to live can be up for debate. Men can do whatever we want:

    get married or not
    sell our wives or not
    beat our wives or not

    Women are just property. They are not fully hu-MAN. Human rights is the biggest problem we have, especially when applied to women
    On the point of beating wives, women, children, and the weaker of men.

    To those that don't comprehend or understand:

    If that's the case, and one chooses violence, then one's standing in the wrong place, in the wrong shoes, at the wrong time, and the wrong frame of mind. Change just one of these ingrediencies then everything's fine.

    The wrath of man and anger of men, plague this world in ways nothing else possibly can.

    Level heads are the only heads that weather every storm and come out on top.

    Disengage is better than attempts to achieve by terror and brutal force.
    Any man that seeks leadership outside himself has a fool for a guide.

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    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    I see little in society to "Opt Into". I check the newspapers online most days and most of the "news" is just propaganda or better suited to a gossip rag. I see all of that and I realize that society has nothing for me. It never has had anything for me. A while ago at work we had a manager who was one of these gung ho get everyone involved types and she kept wanting to do bring a plate days where everyone has to bring food, it's only a company that makes billions every year, so they can't afford to give us a free sandwich. Anyway it rubbed a lot of us up the wrong way. We just wanted to come in and do our jobs. No parties needed.

    Work is as close as I get to "society" so hence my microcosm response.

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    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptic View Post
    I see little in society to "Opt Into". I check the newspapers online most days and most of the "news" is just propaganda or better suited to a gossip rag. I see all of that and I realize that society has nothing for me. It never has had anything for me. A while ago at work we had a manager who was one of these gung ho get everyone involved types and she kept wanting to do bring a plate days where everyone has to bring food, it's only a company that makes billions every year, so they can't afford to give us a free sandwich. Anyway it rubbed a lot of us up the wrong way. We just wanted to come in and do our jobs. No parties needed.

    Work is as close as I get to "society" so hence my microcosm response.
    Sounds like something that'll backfire into poison your coworker day or a milder version we'll call Ex-Lax day!

    If someone's a boss in a slave mill, don'tcha think one would guard their lunch like a hawk?!

    I know I would!
    Any man that seeks leadership outside himself has a fool for a guide.

  13. #13

    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Sounds like something that'll backfire into poison your coworker day or a milder version we'll call Ex-Lax day!

    If someone's a boss in a slave mill, don'tcha think one would guard their lunch like a hawk?!

    I know I would!
    Yes, I was going to say, social occasions for work can easily backfire. I would not want to work a job where those occasions were expected. I also really like the work from home trend. I think that will help to protect men from false accusations. If you don't even see your coworkers in person, they can't claim you touched them or you did whatever. And all interactions via email or chat or whatever are recorded -- but do be careful with that. Always keep everything professional, even if someone pisses you off. I worked with one lady who kept blaming me for shit that I had no control over. For example, our server went down, making it impossible for me to do my job or even communicate with anything until it was fixed. She kept blaming me for that, and I was tempted to flame back at her. But I didn't. I asked, "How can I high-road this?" So she got calm emails from me, showing proof of when the server went down and thus I was unable to work." I don't have to worry about her anymore. That bitch got fired. I don't know whether her unfair rants influenced her firing or not. She may have done something else to piss of the boss. But I don't miss her. The point is, if I had lost my temper and let her have it (as I'm highly capable of), I would have been the one who was disciplined and maybe fired.

    But I want to stay out of all the crap and just do my job and earn money, and then how I build my life is my business.

  14. #14
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    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by patriarch View Post
    Human rights are bullshit. Women should not have any rights at all. Even their right to live can be up for debate. Men can do whatever we want:

    get married or not
    sell our wives or not
    beat our wives or not

    Women are just property. They are not fully hu-MAN. Human rights is the biggest problem we have, especially when applied to women

    I disagree. When women got the right to vote, there was a chance for revolution. Instead we got enslaved by 50% more evil fucks. They have failed us and served themselves. All it proves is that they are no bettern than men as far as evil is concerned.

    Way I see it, it's time for men to redeem themselves and show true compassion by dealing with it like thinking men and refrain from violence. Pursue happiness without women in mind. Use them for what you will, but don't abuse them. Be the best you can be and restore men to their rightful position as pioneers of democracy and freedom. Let's not miss this trick now by ragequitting, like an incel.

  15. #15

    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
    I disagree. When women got the right to vote, there was a chance for revolution. Instead we got enslaved by 50% more evil fucks. They have failed us and served themselves. All it proves is that they are no bettern than men as far as evil is concerned.

    Way I see it, it's time for men to redeem themselves and show true compassion by dealing with it like thinking men and refrain from violence. Pursue happiness without women in mind. Use them for what you will, but don't abuse them. Be the best you can be and restore men to their rightful position as pioneers of democracy and freedom. Let's not miss this trick now by ragequitting, like an incel.
    ^This. We MGTOW men aren't incels hating on women for not fucking us. Most of us have had plenty of sex. Any one of us could get sex today if we wanted. All it would take would be a modicum of money and knowing the right places to search on the Internet. She shows up and you give her a "donation" in an envelope, and she fucks you. If she's good at her job she even lies with you in bed as a companion for the rest of your time. It's an honest transaction. No one is hurt.

    That's how you scratch that itch without getting all involved with a woman. In your own time, you pursue your own interests and goals and have no need to lash out and hurt women. That's a waste of your time and energy, and then if you get your ass in trouble with the law, it will REALLY waste your time, as well as your freedom. As MGTOW, we live and let live. I'm in the midst of building the best income I've ever had and am living way more comfortably than I ever had before. And some women have taken notice! I've had some women flirt with me. Well, fuck that. They didn't want me when I was struggling. Now that I'm prosperous, I don't want them. I would rather pay a professional for a little companionship, and when our session is done, she leaves me alone. She doesn't meddle in my life, telling me how to run it.

    I don't need any revenge. I'm doing quite well.

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    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    ^This. We MGTOW men aren't incels hating on women for not fucking us. Most of us have had plenty of sex. Any one of us could get sex today if we wanted. All it would take would be a modicum of money and knowing the right places to search on the Internet. She shows up and you give her a "donation" in an envelope, and she fucks you. If she's good at her job she even lies with you in bed as a companion for the rest of your time. It's an honest transaction. No one is hurt.

    That's how you scratch that itch without getting all involved with a woman. In your own time, you pursue your own interests and goals and have no need to lash out and hurt women. That's a waste of your time and energy, and then if you get your ass in trouble with the law, it will REALLY waste your time, as well as your freedom. As MGTOW, we live and let live. I'm in the midst of building the best income I've ever had and am living way more comfortably than I ever had before. And some women have taken notice! I've had some women flirt with me. Well, fuck that. They didn't want me when I was struggling. Now that I'm prosperous, I don't want them. I would rather pay a professional for a little companionship, and when our session is done, she leaves me alone. She doesn't meddle in my life, telling me how to run it.

    I don't need any revenge. I'm doing quite well.
    Legendary post.

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    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Sounds like something that'll backfire into poison your coworker day or a milder version we'll call Ex-Lax day!

    If someone's a boss in a slave mill, don'tcha think one would guard their lunch like a hawk?!

    I know I would!
    Yeah she didn't last long about 5 months if I remember correctly. She was too much like an overbearing mother and wasn't doing anything that mattered. CoVid shut down the chance of further bring a plate days which of course was awesome.

  18. #18
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptic View Post
    Yeah she didn't last long about 5 months if I remember correctly. She was too much like an overbearing mother and wasn't doing anything that mattered. CoVid shut down the chance of further bring a plate days which of course was awesome.
    I know the type, narcissistic motormouth extrovert on crack where you can't get a word in edgewise using Samurai sword! You may have found Covid's silver lining!
    Any man that seeks leadership outside himself has a fool for a guide.

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    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    I know the type, narcissistic motormouth extrovert on crack where you can't get a word in edgewise using Samurai sword! You may have found Covid's silver lining!
    Pretty much. She shot herself in the foot a few times and alienated her team from the get go. We had a major incident on one of the sites and I did try and tell her but she brushed me off and told me to transfer them to another department. I knew it was wrong and it would blow up in her face but she always seemed to know better so I followed orders! I think that was the beginning of the end for her.

  20. #20

    Re: the right to opt out is a basic human right

    "Like seeing roasted meat and other dishes in front of you and suddenly realizing: This is a dead fish. A dead bird. A dead pig. Or that this noble vintage is grape juice, and the purple robes are sheep wool dyed with shellfish blood. Or making love -- something rubbing against your penis, a brief seizure and a little cloudy liquid. Perceptions like that -- latching onto things and piercing through them, so we see what they really are. That's what we need to do all the time -- all through our lives when things lay claim to our trust -- to lay them bare and see how pointless they are, to strip away the legend that encrusts them."
    -- Marcus Aurelius (a Good Roman Emperor), 'The Meditations'


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    Replies: 16
    Last Post: June 14, 2016, 12:56 PM
  5. A Real Human™
    By jagrmeister in forum Lounge
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 15, 2015, 4:24 AM

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