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  1. #1
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    MGTOW tends to focus on all that's wrong with westernized women and the negatives they bring to the table.

    I started this thread so lurkers and the uninitiated have a window into going their own way and the positives it brings to life.

    For me it's an overwhelming joy to set strong standards that don't budge an inch, for instance, when I see a dude getting glared at by a women and tolerates it, I take delight that in my shoes he would about face and abandon his walking talking misery outlet, it's a sort of demanding respect and placing that burden on them, hard as nails in my resolve, absolutely no wiggle room, my demands will not be compromised. To do otherwise places you in a weaker mental state and more than likely to loose control of your emotions to a nagging soul grinding bitch. I attribute this to my father and grandmother who was a miserable negative gossiping soul grinding bitch and the mountains of shamming and negative feelings she placed on her only child and a single mother because my grandfather gassed himself in a oven during the great depressions, one the economy, and two his miserable nagging wife.

    Moving down a generation to my fathers disposition towards his kids. Never did he nag or belittle us in any way, and we had some doozies! Fires, wrecked cars, wrecked building, you name it! Not once did he berate, nag, or bring it up again, we were held accountable but not made to endure the stupidity over and over again as he was and all he ever knew.

    I know violence against women isn't tolerated here, however, back in the day before hyper man hating, women would regularly provoke their men to violence to get a reset and put them in their place, now men are emotionally ground to fine powder and have no recourse but to tolerate or vanish.

    I chose to vanish. My joys in being single and free from all that psychological abuse are innumerable. All around me I see men tolerating abuse, being driven to snap or be subserviently abused in ways no man was before woman's liberation.

    My happiness in being MGTOW is derived by the only path that skirts this cultural revolution and the madness that it brings. They can't push my buttons, in fact nobody can, I don't allow it nor do I propagate it.

    What makes you happy about being MGTOW? What's your inside scoop? For me it's psychological and emotional stability.
    Corruption, like low tide, lowers all boats and smashes their hulls on the rocks.

  2. #2
    Senior Member O.G.'s Avatar
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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    I no longer live with a woman. I no longer have my finances intertwined with a woman. I no longer ride the female roller coaster of emotions. I have my own place to live that cannot be jeopardized by a woman.Those changes have brought me more peace than many can comprehend. I live very peacefully now. Never going back to any other way.
    "People are always angry at anyone who chooses very individual standards for his life; because of the extraordinary treatment which that man grants to himself, they feel degraded, like ordinary beings."
    - Nietzsche


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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    Long ago I thought I'd found the one, and then figured life was over when it fell apart. Go ahead and laugh, but it didn't seem funny then. I wouldn't wish that on my almost worst enemy. It took a long time to heal up, since I was still blue pill. But I did.

    Strange as it sound's, it appears the woman in question wasn't all bad. She could of cleaned me out on her way out of town had she wanted, but she didn't. It's true I didn't have much, but my guess it was a professional giving an amateur a break. She could read a person like a book.

    I like my freedom, independence and security as good as the next guy, but never having to dangle on some womans string again, or feel bad when it don't work is what I value most.
    Last edited by frog; June 13, 2022 at 2:34 PM.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    I love these threads! Here are mine.

    For me its probably the freedom in general. Anytime I've been seriously partnered, that relationship has come with a lot of obligations on my time.

    Freedom to enjoy my resources and simultaneously not keep up with the "Joneses." I live way under my means and still have too many toys.

    A de-cluterred house. I've been shopping for a house and women stuff their houses with all sorts of expensive, useless crap.

    A logical life. Back to the house shopping thing, just finished shopping and buying my 2nd home this year and I've told both realtors (both middle aged women I might add) that I don't become emotionally attached and I don't do bidding wars. Any crap from the sellers and I walk. Its a numbers and data game for me. This has served me VERY well in lodging and real estate investment.

    Freedom to change my mind. When I was married, if I found new data that made an idea, path, thing a bad idea my silly ex wife would give me so much flack. Now I can pivot, fail, change without any un justified crap. I still get it from my family a bit but I ignore it.

    Early retirement - which I won't be taking. I don't do well with a bunch of time on my hands.

    Movement of countries. I've already done this once, and I plan to leave the US at some point for a cheaper, healthier culture.

    Drive what I want. Nuff said.

    Those are my truths. There are some drawbacks I can think of but the positives far outweigh them.

    /Tired.

  5. #5

    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    I'm probably the youngest of the bunch. I've first encountered RP in january 2021. I've already noticed positive effects of MGTOW though.
    This philosophy has lifted huge societal pressure off my chest (marriage). It has also made any social interaction easier (I'm introvertic that always feared embarassment - especially in a presence of a woman). Now I just do not care and find any kind of social networking efortless. It also gave me the ability to act more directly. After january 2021 i no longer have bad days as every day above the dirt is a good day.

    I am not yet independent but I already grin at the thought that said independency won't be short-lived.
    " A man without purpose finds it in women " - UCXIV

  6. #6
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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    I've never really fit into any particular group or society in general. When I was a young kid I wanted to be in the library at school rather than running around making motor bike noises with the other kids! So I have always been a MGTOW to some degree, I even avoided relationships or trying to form them for a long time, opting for escorts at the age of 17 rather than trying to pick up because even back then I knew it was fraught with danger and I also just couldn't be bothered.

    Society tries to occupy us with a lot of crap. Must study hard so you can get job and work harder so you can get promotion and work harder still must buy house. Must get wife and make kids so family happy. Now you don't have a wife or kids nor do you have that house you worked so hard for. Stand up, be a man!! Why you crying?

    Life isn't a competition. We all end up dead it doesn't matter how much or how little you have or what your career was during your life.

  7. #7

    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    What makes you happy about being MGTOW?
    It's the sense of belonging, sort of like a brotherhood, if you would. That I'm not alone, that the opposite sex IS fucked up and there's nothing I can do about it.

    Being redpilled is kind of like being on a dingy in the middle of the ocean; the boat you were on is capsizing, yet no one on board realizes it. They're having 'fun' in ignorance not realizing that their fun and excitement is shortlived and they're about to sink into the dark freezing depths and meanwhile, I'm on a boat with several other gentlemen watching the 'relationSHIP' slowly fill to its doom.

    And while it might not be the most fortuitous or preferable situation to be on a dingy in the middle of nowhere, at least I know I'm not gonna plunge into the deep (the 'deep' being a metaphor for divorce/emotional ruin).

    Having this kind of knowledge, is PRICELESS. I only wish I stumbled upon this community a decade sooner!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Hedon's Avatar
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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    Freedom of movement. Knowing that I could move however I want in the world, no longer bound by the shackles of romance, no longer have my goings and comings checked by my commitment to one individual is a great feeling. I could leave the house and come back whenever I damn well pleased. I could pack up and leave or change course whenever. This is the way men are made to live.

    Peace. Women are restless beings whose nature is tethered to constant doings. No sooner do they accomplish a task that's fraught with angst do they start looking frantically for something else to occupy their time. Observe how many times a woman checks her phone within a span of just five minutes. Serene harmony with the present moment filled with nothing or purpose is a foreign concept to a creature rattled with action. Women are unpeaceful and they don't know how to be. My peaceful time enjoyed lazing around my house on my days off means the world to me and I won't trade leisure for the juiciest ass in the world. Without women I've developed a deeper appreciation for silence, the laguage of the gods.

    The reassurance that I have nothing to prove and nothing to defend...that I could relax in the world and among men, not constantly having my guard up, not having to one-up another man in a cutthroat competition of winner takes all, not having to constantly uphold an image in order to impress a girl, to have the liberty of being oneself, totally. No feeling like that in the world.

    Freedom from manipulation. To be free of the constant head games and shit-test is a very good feeling. It's not enough that she's yours, you must constantly pass her tests in an effort to remain attractive to her. I don't mind putting a bitch in her place but that she needed to be put in her place and be handled in the first place is what is a turnoff. I see many of these men every day doing one thing or another, doing the monkey dance of romance in order to satisfy her. How wearying...how exhausting.

    Eating in peace. I've gotten really really good at cooking that it's become one of my favorite hobbies...and I must tell you I thank the gods for this MGTOW life every time I'm able to turn raw materials into something orgasmically delicious. I sit there in all my glory, in this event of having all my taste buds dance to the amazing meal that passes through them.

    Time time time, and more time. Some people here are aware of my utter disdain for work but it would've been unbearable had I saddled a woman for the ride because then I would be working way more than I wanted (who knows what effect that would've had on my health and wellbeing) and would barely have time for myself. The MGTOW lifestyle affords me the opportunity to work minimally with more leisure time at my disposal than your average man. I could work more if need be but I don't have to.

    Sex is just better. Sex is better because you take it as it comes. Also, whether you hire an escort or one-night stand sex is better because there's no added pressure to satisfy her, only you. You get to be utterly selfish. The last girl I was with I knew she was just waiting for me to ask her how it was afterward (you know that pathetic ego massage men seek after sex) or waiting for me to amuse myself with a comment so she could smack it down to boost hers. I took a breath and got up to go to the bathroom. She looked very disappointed because I just didn't care. Life is beautiful.

    And I'm healthy. Oh god, I'm healthy. Balls, balls, balls.
    Last edited by Hedon; June 15, 2022 at 3:08 AM.

  9. #9
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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    When I was married I was younger, but looked older. Tired. Now I am older with no woman in my life, I look younger. More alive.

    Women put miles on your clock like cigarettes. MGTOW is the health warning on the packet.

  10. #10
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedon View Post
    Freedom of movement. Knowing that I could move however I want in the world, no longer bound by the shackles of romance, no longer have my goings and comings checked by my commitment to one individual is a great feeling. I could leave the house and come back whenever I damn well pleased. I could pack up and leave or change course whenever. This is the way men are made to live.

    Peace. Women are restless beings whose nature is tethered to constant doings. No sooner do they accomplish a task that's fraught with angst do they start looking frantically for something else to occupy their time. Observe how many times a woman checks her phone within a span of just five minutes. Serene harmony with the present moment filled with nothing or purpose is a foreign concept to a creature rattled with action. Women are unpeaceful and they don't know how to be. My peaceful time enjoyed lazing around my house on my days off means the world to me and I won't trade leisure for the juiciest ass in the world. Without women I've developed a deeper appreciation for silence, the laguage of the gods.

    The reassurance that I have nothing to prove and nothing to defend...that I could relax in the world and among men, not constantly having my guards up, not having to one-up another man in this cutthroat competition of winner takes all, not having to constantly uphold an image in order to impress a girl, to be given the liberty of being oneself totally. No feeling like that in the world.

    Freedom from manipulation. To be free of the constant head games and shit-test is a very good feeling. It's not enough that she's yours, you must constantly pass her tests in an effort to remain attractive to her. I don't mind putting a bitch in her place but that she needed to be put in her place and be handled in the first place is what is a turnoff. I see many of these men every day doing one thing or another, engaging in that monkey dance of romance in order to satisfy her. How wearying...how exhausting.

    Eating in peace. I've gotten really really good at cooking that it's become one of my favorite hobbies...and I must tell you I thank the gods for this MGTOW life every time I'm able to turn raw materials into something orgasmically delicious. I sit there in all my glory, in this event of having all my taste buds dance to the amazing meal that passes through them.

    Time time time, and more time. Some people here are aware of my utter disdain for the drudgery of work but it would've been utterly unbearable had I saddled a woman for the ride because then I would be working way more than I wanted (who knows what effect this would've had on my health and wellbeing) and would barely have time for myself. The MGTOW lifestyle affords me the opportunity to work minimally with more leisure time at my disposal than your average man. I could work more if need be but I don't have to.

    Sex is just better. Sex is better because you take it as it comes. Also, whether you hire an escort or one-night stand sex is better because there's no added pressure to satisfy her, only you. You get to be utterly selfish. The last girl I was with I knew she was just waiting for me to ask her how it was afterward (you know that pathetic ego massage men seek after sex) or waiting for me to amuse myself with a comment so she could smack it down to boost hers. I took a breath and got up to go to the bathroom. She looked very disappointed because I just didn't care. Life is beautiful.

    And I'm healthy. Oh god, I'm healthy. Balls, balls, balls.
    Shortly after burning out on relationshits and women in general, I was free to maneuver in any way, shape, or form. Instead of becoming a "minimalist", I maximized my profits and for a 10 year stretch, I was making bank to the tune of 8 or 10 millrats combined income (I was once a millrat myself).

    I was on top of the world! Purchased my home (cheap) and put 10's of thousands of dollars into refurbishing it to my likings. During this time I went globe trotting to boot!

    There's enough wrong in this world to take extreme measures to set things right! Who gives a damn about dying alone when living alone is so much more rewarding!
    Corruption, like low tide, lowers all boats and smashes their hulls on the rocks.

  11. #11

    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    This choice and lifestyle gives us opportunity, time and space to explore whether there's a meaning in this life other than eating food, buying stuff, and cranking out another generation of human beings. I came to realize early my family going back generations demonstrated the basic problem. My father was very enthusiastic about his life and job at first, but he was worn down by the grind of boring work, and the constant demands of my mother for more material stuff. They set up what looked close to the "American dream" with the house in the suburbs and enough money to buy all the crap pushed by advertising. But underneath both of them were miserable souls. They weren't especially bad parents by the standards of the era, but not good either, as the underlying unhappiness was hard to hide.

    In my 20s-30s I made half-hearted attempts to pursue the usual dream, with the blue pill ideal of making a better choice of a job and spouse. But this is folly. It takes a more radical change of lifestyle and mind to do anything other than repeat the old patterns.

    Thanks to not having the burden of a wife and kids, I was able to semi-retire at age 40. I've been able to try out many things, travel, short term jobs, volunteer and special interest organizations. Some things turn out to be worthwhile and I continue to pursue them. Others don't and I simply walk away. I'm not forced by obligation to continue in dreary pursuits just to make money or because the society says it's necessary.

    There's satisfaction and "enlightenment" in realizing I dodged a bullet. Every day is a new adventure and opportunity. The people who tow the line typically end up miserable, hoping for salvation in some other time/place.

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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    Another factor for me is MGTOW is about going against primal programming. The concept of just wanting to fuck, to chase women and spread our genes even though, condoms are used or the ejaculation isn't even in a way that would allow pregnancy. All of that is really silly me. Even if a man does reproduce, what's the point if he isn't around to see his offspring go on to rule the world etc? What if they grow up to become everything he despises? Or he is locked out of their lives altogether?

    An exercise in futility.

  13. #13
    Senior Member MGTOWFOREVER's Avatar
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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    I know peace , happiness, and prosperity as long as I stay away from women. I know the second I let a woman in my frame then all 3 of those disappear.

    It feels nice coming home to my own place and doing whatever the f*** I want. If I feel like getting a pizza and playing video games in my boxers then I will. No nagging about when I have to do something. No checking in with headquarters if I want to go somewhere. If I don't jump to every whimper then I don't have Massa to belittle me and let me know how much of an unwanted f*** head I am. I am MGTOW FOREVER!!!! No more crazy broads!

    Stay away from women. They will only break your heart.

  14. #14
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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    On the eve of Independence Day in America, I content myself with the knowledge that one of my forefathers probably shot one of Spooky's forefathers.

    I'm out. Peace.
    - Owen, 07.03.2022
    Last edited by OwenWentFullMGTOW; July 4, 2022 at 4:41 AM.

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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    What makes you happy about being MGTOW? What's your inside scoop? For me it's psychological and emotional stability.
    Same here and also financial stability. I know what and where my money is going. I don't need to buy a years worth of weight loss shakes or heaps of ice cream. I don't need a new bottle of perfume every week or heaps of make up to clutter the bathroom counter.

    I want to get back into prospecting as a hobby, I bought another metal detector. I will get more flat tyres out bush, I bought a tyre changing machine so I can fix the flats. I don't need to justify my purchases with anyone but myself.

  16. #16
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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    Some old Messenger Rising content that was erased from all records. Id listened to the audio so much, I was able to recollect it at one point. This is probably 6 or 7 years old. Still applicable today. Sorry, it doesnt have anything to do with the topic, just posting at random here.

    I noticed that a lot of men, having to experience pain, before they will listen. Stop with this popularity contest on Youtube. It’s not a game. I see a lot of men, giving in to their desires and not thinking about all the consequences we talk about. A lot of mgtow producers making content that endorse men seeking the affection from women.
    Let me be clear, and Im gonna name names. Because Im not fucking around any more. Men die. Men lose their homes. And there are men on the street right now. They have nothing.
    Niko Choski, you’re playing a very foolish and game and you’re gonna get yourself BURNED. Bad. You’ve said it before, in hangouts, you got a woman pregnant last year. Whether she decided to have it is of no importance, what matters is you were in that place man. And you’re gonna send other men there. You’re a very foolish man, and your telling other men this stuff is going to get them in so much trouble.

    Let me tell you. From someone whose been there. Women, sex. Leads to children! And I sound like your Dad, don’t I? Well, maybe you didn’t have someone to tell you these things so let me break it down for you.

    Women, Fake pregnancies. Four times in my life. I’ve had this pulled on me. My first time was in school. The cunt told me she was pregnant, she was playing a game. And it fucked up the final months of my schooling and tests. I didn’t graduate and I had to be a manual worker. 2nd time. The woman was jealous and crazy. She acquired an scan picture of a baby from her Aunty. And my Ex and her Aunty have the same surname. She left iron tablets on my Dad’s breakfast table along with the picture for him to see. Iron tablets, some of you may know, women take them when they’re pregnant. My Dad tells me, “I know what’ve you done. You’ve got your girlfriend pregnant.” And I say, “I don’t know what you’re talking about.”

    These are the sick games they play! You really want to entertain that shit in your life? You can’t prove whether she is or isn’t pregnant at that time, you have to deal with that. You, you don’t matter.

    Last time, fake pregnancy. A ex-girlfriend tried to sperm jack me. She called out of nowhere and said “I needed to go to a doctor to have some blood tests.” And I said, “that doesn’t matter, we’re not together.” And she said, “well yeah I know but its to make sure that one of us isn’t infertile.” And when I went, the nurse said that I had been there before. She had tried to get her brother to pretend to be me, they were trying to get a sperm sample appointment set up. They were trying to trap me.
    I think a lot of people have forgot about my old videos. I’ve told you about my friend Tim. I’ve already told you about him. He went away on holiday and got a girl pregnant. He was the man, you know. He ‘owned the pussy;’ stop with that foolish line. You don’t own anything. When she gets pregnant, that’s it, you’re fucked, then she owns you! And prior to his going on that holiday, this man was always happy at work, never late. And after, he was always worried. Trying to figure out how he was going to pay for the child. Trying to make arrangements to be with the girl. And he’d only just met her, he didn’t even like the girl. And he was jailed for making phone calls. He was just trying to talk to the mother of his child. They jailed him.

    And that day in court, when they say, “take him down.” And they handcuff you and put you in a box below the court house. And they put you in a van and send you off. And you have no idea where you’re going. To prison. And there are nasty people there, let me tell you. When I went, I left my picture of my daughter at home. The sorts of people in prison, you don’t want those sick people to know anything about your life. They will fuck with your life. They will fight you. They will write home to your family, just to fuck with your life.

    And the pain is so bad. They will not let you see your children. You, you’re not the father. Step aside. You can’t split a house in half! When the separation happens, she keeps the house because the children live in it. The courts make that decision. YOU, go away.
    And one thing becomes crystal clear. There is no one to help you. Its no ones job. No one cares. And you try to tell the police. “Please sir, she’s doing this to me, will you please stop it?” She just shows them the photos of bruises she’s self-inflicted. And the police, they don’t believe you! Not after what she’s said. This is the monster they’ve heard about. You!
    The pain is so bad. You don’t even want to kill yourself, you just wish it would stop. You’re lucky if you’re still standing I tell you, when they get done with you. You’d be lucky. They will take EVERYTHING from you. They will cut you limb from limb.
    And you will want to die. I told you about my friend. He showed up for work everyday, the happiest man I ever knew. He hung himself because he couldn’t see the child.
    And the other guy, when I was in prison. He was so depressed. He was the one who stuck bible versus to the bottom of his bunk. Stuck up there with tooth paste. In prison, that’s all you can get. He was totally depressed and they’d have to pump him full of drugs just to keep him awake. And when he was on the drugs, he’s be overly excited about everything, obnoxious over a simple fucking game of cards.
    Sometimes I see my old friends. He’s married and living with her, just for the sake of the child. Oh, and the way she speaks to him. Don’t tell me you put up with that day in and day out and it hasn’t ruined your soul man.
    These are the consequences for what you’re advocating. Dating, relationships, needing a cuddle from women… leads to sex… leads to pregnancy. And you cant prove it. When shes says its yours, you have no way of proving whether it is or isn’t your child, you have to deal with that!

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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    High jacking a thread's no big deal, specially if it's fading out. But this one still had a little life in it. With a big unrelated post, wouldn't you have been better off starting a new thread or finding one that fits better? It would probably find a better audience that way.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    Sorry Frog, I was reckless. Ill try to be more considerate when dropping paste text bombs. Sorry GENTS, ignore the wild man

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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyNuts View Post
    I don't need to justify my purchases with anyone but myself.
    So much this. Every time I hear or read a guy say his wife "Let" him get something a little part of me celebrates my life choices...

    The thought of having some woman "let" me spend my own money how I want makes me throw up in my mouth.

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    Re: The Positive side of MGTOW, the happy tidbits of going your own way.

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenWentFullMGTOW View Post
    But starting Wednesday, I'm doing a staycation.
    I'm on a staycation right now for the whole of June until I start a new contract in mid July. I am loving every day of my life right now by myself. As a man, we have the psychological gift of being able to make ourselves happy without needing constant attention and validation from others. I can spend days pursuing interests, or learning, or simply doing nothing at all.

    Just to punctuate the solitude a bit, I see my board gaming group once a week and can go to meetups if I feel like a little more social contact. Yesterday a new game arrived in the post. I spent the morning leisurely unboxing and learning the rules whilst enjoying quality coffee and cooking healthy food. My diet is impeccable at the moment and I walk 3-5 miles every day. In the evening I played the game at a meetup group at a bar. Two random women joined me and another guy who agreed to play the game online. He finished the game in first place, I was second, and the two women trailed behind in third and fourth.

    As I was taking my walk in a beautiful park this morning, I was reflecting on the game experience, and how the strategy of one of the women was to beg, plead and try to emotionally wheedle the other male player into not doing certain actions that would hinder her. I was thinking about how for her, it was about the emotional game that she was playing within the physical game that we were playing. The other guy was a super intelligent gamer nerd, so he was trying to puzzle out how to win on the board while she was trying to manipulate him into giving her points. That was interesting. I remember at one point in the game she said something like " Go easy on me, I don't know what I am doing" which was clearly a lie and I replied in a matter of fact voice "that's not true and you know it". I could see that she had a grasp on the game but rather than apply problem solving skills, she tried to apply feminine wiles.

    I have also been researching e bikes and electric skateboards, as I have wanted to get something to cruise around on for quite some time. As a mgtow man I can just go out in the sunshine without having to fill out the verbal punch card (Where are you going? who are you with? what time will you be back? can you pick up X while you are out?). So last week I ordered my e bike and then thought, "wait, why not get both?"

    So I am getting both. Its my birthday next month after all.

    I laugh to myself at other guys who have to "ask the missus" to spend £100 for themselves on their hobby, or the guys who joke about being scolded about how much they spend on the things that bring them joy.


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