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  1. #21

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Quote Originally Posted by MGTOWLife View Post
    ... But there were some critical articles by psychology professionals such as these two:
    --Link #1: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happiness-and-the-pursuit-leadership/201903/whats-the-problem-traditional-masculinity
    ...
    Excellent article. I hadn't seen that. Thanks for the link.

    Just to expand on something I said above: John M. Gottman's "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" is considered kind of the gold standard for marriage counseling (or was a few years ago, anyway). You can see all the hubbub surrounding it by checking the listing at Amazon; it comes with workbooks, study manuals, etc.

    Anyway, in Chapter 7 Gottman tells men to let women take the lead. He says that men tend to resist a cooperative approach; also, religious views about males being the head of the household shut out the woman; also, women tend to have greater "emotional intelligence" by virtue of an historical nurturing role. Then he goes on to say that men are poor at arguing and put women on the defensive, whereas women are better on that score. He says that men shouldn't argue and should be more open to giving the wife what she wants, since men's input is more injurious to the marriage as a whole.

    Other chapters of the book aren't much better. He spends a lot of time instructing men on how to be an emotional tampon for the women, coddling and supporting her through her moods.
    That sounds pretty bad. I read some of Gottman 20 years ago, but I was blue pill then, though, so none of it bothered me. What I remember from him is the four horsemen: personal criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling. Those are the things that predict divorce. As you probably know, Gottman is considered an authority because he spent his career observing couples on videotape and figuring out how to predict divorce from their interactions. He supposedly was pretty good at it.

    As for those bits of advice you quote ... disturbing. They always make the man the one who's causing the problem. The man is the one who needs to adapt, shut up, smarten up, etc. It couldn't possibly be the woman, oh no (lol). I had a supervisor once who proudly told me that he "lets the wives go at the husbands" in couples' therapy. He said he used to try to inhibit them, but now he just lets them tear into the husbands. He thought this was a good thing. Get out that repressed rage, girl! Tell him a thing or two! I wonder if he thought the opposite (husbands tearing into the wives) would be a good thing, too.

    Other generations have accommodated the "confirmed bachelor," so it seems strange to hear that today's therapists are so negative about the single life. It almost sounds like some kind of Soviet thing: Require that people immerse themselves in the collective (relationships) so they don't have the time or opportunity to think for themselves and become free-thinkers.
    I might have a somewhat skewed perspective, because I live in a very trad-con area where marriage is the default. Every psychologist I worked with was married. So what I said might not be true elsewhere.

    Still, there is a huge emphasis on "the relationship" in psychology. That always bugged me. Back in the 60s and 70s, there was all kinds of writing about human potential, self-actualization, transcendence, finding meaning in life, creativity, etc. All that got pushed to the side in favor of brief therapies and improving interpersonal relationships. Part of that was just the economics of the thing (insurance companies don't reimburse for self-actualization, heh).

    Of course, Bella DePaulo has been prominent in recent years in terms of researching the positives of the single life. She notes that singles can still have strong networks of friends, family, etc. And she points out some research showing that singles may be mentally healthier overall than couples who have been married for many years.
    Yes, she's done good work. I found it very helpful in demythologizing love and marriage, 20 years ago or so.

    Anyway, great job on your "Uncoupled" website. I actually commented on one of your columns back a couple months ago: "Don't Idealize Relationships," where I signed in as Craig and talked about my marriages. You provided a detailed response there too.

    Keep up the great content!
    Thanks!

  2. #22
    Senior Member UnKnownSurviving's Avatar
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    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell View Post

    As for those bits of advice you quote ... disturbing. They always make the man the one who's causing the problem. The man is the one who needs to adapt, shut up, smarten up, etc. It couldn't possibly be the woman, oh no (lol). I had a supervisor once who proudly told me that he "lets the wives go at the husbands" in couples' therapy. He said he used to try to inhibit them, but now he just lets them tear into the husbands. He thought this was a good thing. Get out that repressed rage, girl! Tell him a thing or two! I wonder if he thought the opposite (husbands tearing into the wives) would be a good thing, too.



    What the hell? Are you serious? He thought it was a good thing for wives lay it at the husbands??! With rage?? Shit, this is worse than I thought. It just appears that society push for more support for women every day, and none of it for men. What about men?! They're in the shit, as well! I mean is, men need help, and they're not giving or that they're refusing to help men!

  3. #23
    Senior Member MGTOWFOREVER's Avatar
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    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    ANyone who thinks you need a woman to be happy is an idiot. They are just horny in my opinion. What are women really good for? Cooking? I can cook for myself . Companionship? I feel more loved by my cat than I ever did a person. Sex? It's easily obtainable nowadays. All you need is internet access.

    Dating is a joke. Why waste time and money on something that was given away for free hundreds of times before? No thanks.
    Stay away from women. They will only break your heart.

  4. #24
    Administrator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    I just can't for the life of me picture you in a dive bar! I stopped going to dive bars when I hit 18 and became of legal age.
    I'm the Forrest Gump of intellectuals. I have appeared in a slew of disparate places. Most to which I did not belong. Like jail. LOL.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  5. #25

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Just wanted to thank you, Eddie, for your thoughtful and well-articulated post.

    I put some of my thoughts into words yesterday - in a post about "Incels, women, life and MGTOW"... only to read your post today and see them far better framed and expressed.

    We agree in so, so many things.
    Cheers.

  6. #26

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Quote Originally Posted by end_of_days View Post
    Just wanted to thank you, Eddie, for your thoughtful and well-articulated post.

    I put some of my thoughts into words yesterday - in a post about "Incels, women, life and MGTOW"... only to read your post today and see them far better framed and expressed.

    We agree in so, so many things.
    Cheers.
    Thanks, man. Appreciate it. It took me a while to get the words right -- or close enough, anyhow.

  7. #27
    Administrator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Found this online today, thought it interesting. From a guy:

    The base psychology of a woman is like 1000 different dark tunnels, through which she's never travelled. As a man you have to learn how women act in each particular dangerous situation. Once I learned enough about women to understand them, I simply do not want one in my life.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  8. #28

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    This used to be common knowledge about 150 years back in my country. Back then men would marry the fat women first. Because when the woman was fat it used to represent health and strength. These women were good at keeping the house in order and would get married first. The skinny and pale women that were weak and looked sickly would have little to no chance at marrige. Looks and falling in love didn't matter as much as health and strength to be able to secure the resources and raise the kids.

    For this to be considdered an incomplete life you would have to believe that most of our history is humans doing something completely pointless and meaningless.
    Also the whole indian culture of relationships (where parrents chose the partners for kids) goes down the drain if the romantic love is something that people can't live without.

  9. #29
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Terrific. Broke down all the influences, overt and subtle.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).

  10. #30

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Great post,

    I am slowly starting to realize what use to drives me to pursue women. It the desires for emotional closeness, sexual release, social factors(peer pressure and conditioning)

    The solution is to these "drivers" is meet the need some other way.

    Like for emotional closeness you can solve that without women by building a relationship with yourself, to treat you self like you would a good friend or lover.

    For sexual release, there are many ways to get off such as dolls and pocket pussies but whatever you please yourself without shame or bust without guilt. But as always don't over do it


    Social conditioning and peer pressure you have to learn to not give a shot about them as well as grey manning in plain sight

    Once you get to a certain point in your relationship with yourself you Will barely even register women

  11. #31

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    I have not read all of the posts on this thread as I start to write this, so please forgive any redundancy here...

    WHAT IF:

    What if I am willing to accept living an IN-complete life? What if I am willing to forfeit the chance of living this "complete life" as it has been defined by someone else who neither knows nor cares anything about me, my needs, my preferences, or my own definition of what makes my life a "complete life"?

    What if I'm just content to accept living this "less-than-complete" life?

    One might say that for a woman, missing out on motherhood would make her life "incomplete". But if a woman can scream "my body, my choice!" and do with her body what she chooses regardless of anyone else's opinion, then can the same reasoning be extended to me so that I may take the position that "my life, my choice" and then do with it as I alone choose without regard to whatever anyone else believes makes it "complete" or not?

    Next question: If there are person(s) who are so highly motivated to make sure I live this "complete life" as they have defined it for me, where were they when there were other parts of my life that were incomplete? A job is a part of a complete life. But none of those people were ever around trying to force anyone to hire me when I was unemployed. Good health is part of a "complete life". But I don't recall any of those people showing up to help me when I was sick or injured. Education is part of a compete life. But none of those people droning on about my "complete life" were ever around to teach me even the most basic things like driving a car, or balancing a checkbook, or saving for my retirement...

    It seems it's only with regard to this romantic love idea that there is any concern for my "complete life".

    Perhaps it is no coincidence that all those other examples of me living a "complete life" that went ignored were the examples in which I would benefit. This idea that I should chase and sacrifice for just a chance at romantic love is the one example of my "complete life" that benefits someone else more than it will ever benefit me. And this is the one idea that mysteriously, somehow seems to monopolize 100% of ALL the concern that there is for me and my "complete life"... ? Is romantic love so overwhelmingly rewarding that it would completely compensate me for an entire life in which I had no education, no health care, no job and not even the ability to drive a car?

    Is this really the story that we are going to go with?

    What if I chase romantic love, and I catch it, and a few years down the road, it blows up in my face and I lose my home, children, money, retirement, legal rights and sanity as a result. Are any of these people advocating for romantic love going to appear and compensate me for the losses I've taken as a result of following their plan for my "complete life"?

    And last question: If I forfeit the chance to live this "compete life" as someone else has defined for me, will I be shamed for it? Or, will I be left alone?

    I'm asking these questions because I'm trying to determine exactly whose life it is, and whether or not we are all on the exact same page about that ratio of ownership, control and responsibility for my life, and its "completeness"...

    To me, all this noise about what I should be doing with my life... is just another example of people who wish to exert some measure of control over my life, while taking ZERO responsibility for it.

    My counter offer to these people: You keep your control and your ideas about my "complete life" to yourself, and I will keep my responsibility for my incomplete life to myself, and we can all live happily ever after...
    Last edited by BrainPilot; August 12, 2022 at 1:15 PM.

  12. #32
    Senior Member ResidentEvil7's Avatar
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    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    I've been alive for about 40 years, and I haven't lived with a woman since my mom moved out 29 years ago this month. I lived a happy life up until my dad died recently. All a man needs are: his family (male relatives), his buddies, his hobbies and even a nice can of cold beer in one hand and himself with the other to be happy. For the exception of my mom and aunts (who are helping with my dad's death) and some other relatives I don't need women to be happy or complete.

    Face it, men, women are a real drag on society. They think they can run and control our lives and outside our lives. Just don't let them; don't let them take advantage of you. Live your own life to the fullest, because like my dad, you don't know when the end is coming and he made it to 66. Live your life and don't allow anyone to stand in your way. In fact, surround yourself with good people that are good influence in your life.
    It's a man's world and we need to take it by the throat and make it give us what we desire.

  13. #33

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Here's a good take on the failed myth of romantic love :. https://zaporacle.com/no-tristans-al...ove/#gsc.tab=0

  14. #34

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Quote Originally Posted by pool-boy View Post
    Here's a good take on the failed myth of romantic love :. https://zaporacle.com/no-tristans-al...ove/#gsc.tab=0
    Holy shit, cartharism/wmrl explain everything!

    It explains why so many blue pill dudes(PUAs and incel) keep worshipping women. they literally see them as the symbol divinity

    This is a a great post! Thanks man!


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