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  1. #21

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Quote Originally Posted by MGTOWLife View Post
    ... But there were some critical articles by psychology professionals such as these two:
    --Link #1: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happiness-and-the-pursuit-leadership/201903/whats-the-problem-traditional-masculinity
    ...
    Excellent article. I hadn't seen that. Thanks for the link.

    Just to expand on something I said above: John M. Gottman's "The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" is considered kind of the gold standard for marriage counseling (or was a few years ago, anyway). You can see all the hubbub surrounding it by checking the listing at Amazon; it comes with workbooks, study manuals, etc.

    Anyway, in Chapter 7 Gottman tells men to let women take the lead. He says that men tend to resist a cooperative approach; also, religious views about males being the head of the household shut out the woman; also, women tend to have greater "emotional intelligence" by virtue of an historical nurturing role. Then he goes on to say that men are poor at arguing and put women on the defensive, whereas women are better on that score. He says that men shouldn't argue and should be more open to giving the wife what she wants, since men's input is more injurious to the marriage as a whole.

    Other chapters of the book aren't much better. He spends a lot of time instructing men on how to be an emotional tampon for the women, coddling and supporting her through her moods.
    That sounds pretty bad. I read some of Gottman 20 years ago, but I was blue pill then, though, so none of it bothered me. What I remember from him is the four horsemen: personal criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling. Those are the things that predict divorce. As you probably know, Gottman is considered an authority because he spent his career observing couples on videotape and figuring out how to predict divorce from their interactions. He supposedly was pretty good at it.

    As for those bits of advice you quote ... disturbing. They always make the man the one who's causing the problem. The man is the one who needs to adapt, shut up, smarten up, etc. It couldn't possibly be the woman, oh no (lol). I had a supervisor once who proudly told me that he "lets the wives go at the husbands" in couples' therapy. He said he used to try to inhibit them, but now he just lets them tear into the husbands. He thought this was a good thing. Get out that repressed rage, girl! Tell him a thing or two! I wonder if he thought the opposite (husbands tearing into the wives) would be a good thing, too.

    Other generations have accommodated the "confirmed bachelor," so it seems strange to hear that today's therapists are so negative about the single life. It almost sounds like some kind of Soviet thing: Require that people immerse themselves in the collective (relationships) so they don't have the time or opportunity to think for themselves and become free-thinkers.
    I might have a somewhat skewed perspective, because I live in a very trad-con area where marriage is the default. Every psychologist I worked with was married. So what I said might not be true elsewhere.

    Still, there is a huge emphasis on "the relationship" in psychology. That always bugged me. Back in the 60s and 70s, there was all kinds of writing about human potential, self-actualization, transcendence, finding meaning in life, creativity, etc. All that got pushed to the side in favor of brief therapies and improving interpersonal relationships. Part of that was just the economics of the thing (insurance companies don't reimburse for self-actualization, heh).

    Of course, Bella DePaulo has been prominent in recent years in terms of researching the positives of the single life. She notes that singles can still have strong networks of friends, family, etc. And she points out some research showing that singles may be mentally healthier overall than couples who have been married for many years.
    Yes, she's done good work. I found it very helpful in demythologizing love and marriage, 20 years ago or so.

    Anyway, great job on your "Uncoupled" website. I actually commented on one of your columns back a couple months ago: "Don't Idealize Relationships," where I signed in as Craig and talked about my marriages. You provided a detailed response there too.

    Keep up the great content!
    Thanks!

  2. #22
    Senior Member UnKnownSurviving's Avatar
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    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell View Post

    As for those bits of advice you quote ... disturbing. They always make the man the one who's causing the problem. The man is the one who needs to adapt, shut up, smarten up, etc. It couldn't possibly be the woman, oh no (lol). I had a supervisor once who proudly told me that he "lets the wives go at the husbands" in couples' therapy. He said he used to try to inhibit them, but now he just lets them tear into the husbands. He thought this was a good thing. Get out that repressed rage, girl! Tell him a thing or two! I wonder if he thought the opposite (husbands tearing into the wives) would be a good thing, too.



    What the hell? Are you serious? He thought it was a good thing for wives lay it at the husbands??! With rage?? Shit, this is worse than I thought. It just appears that society push for more support for women every day, and none of it for men. What about men?! They're in the shit, as well! I mean is, men need help, and they're not giving or that they're refusing to help men!

  3. #23
    Senior Member MGTOWFOREVER's Avatar
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    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    ANyone who thinks you need a woman to be happy is an idiot. They are just horny in my opinion. What are women really good for? Cooking? I can cook for myself . Companionship? I feel more loved by my cat than I ever did a person. Sex? It's easily obtainable nowadays. All you need is internet access.

    Dating is a joke. Why waste time and money on something that was given away for free hundreds of times before? No thanks.
    Stay away from women. They will only break your heart.

  4. #24
    Administrator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    I just can't for the life of me picture you in a dive bar! I stopped going to dive bars when I hit 18 and became of legal age.
    I'm the Forrest Gump of intellectuals. I have appeared in a slew of disparate places. Most to which I did not belong. Like jail. LOL.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  5. #25

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Just wanted to thank you, Eddie, for your thoughtful and well-articulated post.

    I put some of my thoughts into words yesterday - in a post about "Incels, women, life and MGTOW"... only to read your post today and see them far better framed and expressed.

    We agree in so, so many things.
    Cheers.

  6. #26

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Quote Originally Posted by end_of_days View Post
    Just wanted to thank you, Eddie, for your thoughtful and well-articulated post.

    I put some of my thoughts into words yesterday - in a post about "Incels, women, life and MGTOW"... only to read your post today and see them far better framed and expressed.

    We agree in so, so many things.
    Cheers.
    Thanks, man. Appreciate it. It took me a while to get the words right -- or close enough, anyhow.

  7. #27
    Administrator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Found this online today, thought it interesting. From a guy:

    The base psychology of a woman is like 1000 different dark tunnels, through which she's never travelled. As a man you have to learn how women act in each particular dangerous situation. Once I learned enough about women to understand them, I simply do not want one in my life.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  8. #28

    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    This used to be common knowledge about 150 years back in my country. Back then men would marry the fat women first. Because when the woman was fat it used to represent health and strength. These women were good at keeping the house in order and would get married first. The skinny and pale women that were weak and looked sickly would have little to no chance at marrige. Looks and falling in love didn't matter as much as health and strength to be able to secure the resources and raise the kids.

    For this to be considdered an incomplete life you would have to believe that most of our history is humans doing something completely pointless and meaningless.
    Also the whole indian culture of relationships (where parrents chose the partners for kids) goes down the drain if the romantic love is something that people can't live without.

  9. #29
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: The idea that you need a woman (romantic love) to live a complete life

    Terrific. Broke down all the influences, overt and subtle.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
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    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).


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