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  1. #1
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    https://www.goingyourownway.com/cont...ons-mgtow.html

    Here's an article I wrote some time back but still relevant I think.


    The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW






    Misconception #1. "MGTOWs are bitter that they’ve never had sex."

    Most men become MGTOWs after a marriage or a set of relationships. Which means they’ve had sex. But those men become MGTOW because they experience the hollow promise that are today’s relationships with women. Society (and women) sold the idea of a girlfriend or spouse as an asset but after nagging, histrionics, outlandish expectations, and ever-increasing entitlement, they found women to be more of a liability (despite the sex). If you visit the primary MGTOW forums: Happy Bachelor, Going Your Own Way, or MGTOWHQ, you’ll observe that most fall into this camp.

    Misconception #2. "Whatever their past life, once a man goes MGTOW, then he abstains."

    Generally, MGTOWs avoid one-itis LTRs that are a conveyor belt towards marriage and few MGTOWs get married AFTER taking the red pill. The sexual activity of MGTOWs, however, varies widely. On the main MGTOW forums, some have GFs, some date casually, some are into game, others are even married.

    A main observation of MGTOW is that women are overrated. They have always been overrated by society to encourage men to marry and pump out more workslaves. But now the delta between a woman’s actual value and perceived value has taken on comical proportions as female waistlines bulge and they adopt undesirable masculine qualities. This overvaluing of women happens amongst men as well; in that men will judge one another’s value on his ability to court women. It may have been more so in the past that a “quality” man was sought after by women, and so female interest had a true correlation with the actual value of a man. Feminist relaxing of social constraints on female mate selection criteria changes that. There are a lot of decent men on the sidelines and a lot of guys with questionable track records getting plenty of female attention.

    But either way, to be a “man” in yesteryear was to “win a woman over” for marriage and today it means gaming a chick into bed. Wheras in the past, being a “Real Man” meant marrying a woman (translation: the man is “good enough” for a woman), today the “Real Man” is measured by his ‘notch count’ and prioritizing the pursuit (translation: man is “good enough” for a woman). The more things change, the more they stay the same. In either case, a man’s value as judged by himself, his peers, and society at large is predicated on his ability to meet a woman’s requirements. MGTOW is calling bullshit on that.

    MGTOWs may date or not, but ultimately the importance of “success with women” is lower in their worldview.

    Misconception #3. "MGTOWs are not focused on self-betterment; they have given up."

    The key point here is that MGTOWs distinguish between Sexual Market Value (SMV) and Actual Value (AV). To define terms, Actual Value is having traits that make for a good person leading a meaningful life; actual ability, actual traits of good character. Let's start with the most basic- character: a fundamentally decent human being. Honest. Trustworthy. Strong. Resilient. Resourceful. These are traits of someone who is a good friend, a good worker, a good person all around to know. Then there are abilities- someone who is intelligent, has practical skills, a sense of humor. Finally, there are what he does- activities, interests, his job. SMV for us are male traits that women find attractive. Now naturally there may be some overlap between the two. But the general sentiment is that today, SMV and AV may be more misaligned than ever. Today, a guy like Kevin Federline is preferred to a guy with Actual Value. Whereas having a full sleeve tattoo may not put you in great position for the corner office, it can help your SMV. There are more examples, but decades ago, having an upstanding character and solid career prospects was more likely to garner female interest than in an era when women are largely in the workforce themselves and where feminism has unrestrained female hypergamy (which was always there) and leads women to unintentionally prioritize qualities in men that would have aided her survival in a pre-civilization era.

    MGTOWs separate themselves entirely from the paradigm that a man’s value is related to his ‘success’ with women. MGTOWs focus on life itself and discuss interests such as boxing, boating, lifting, surfing, cars, books, video games, real estate, as well as standard things men talk about like careers and travel. They see self-betterment in two dimensions: improving Actual Value, and enjoying life. Since some MGTOWs are interested in dating, there is talk of what one can do to improve SMV, but that is just part of the discussion.

    On “giving up”, many MGTOWs simply don’t find pursuit of women to be all that it’s hyped up to be. Some men don’t mind shit test after shit test and the standard fare of “maintaining” a woman today. Some do. Life is all about investment and return; and that influences how we spend our time. MGTOWs observe that given the nature of women and the trajectory we’re on, greater investment is needed for much lower return. And the cost of even maintaining an investment or portfolio comes at the expense of doing the things one enjoys. Thats why many MGTOWs who’ve come out of relationships aren’t champing at the bit to get back into one.

    Misconception #4. "MGTOWs are hermits who are basement-dwellers and shun all social interaction."

    “Ghosts” are a subset of MGTOWs who seek to minimize social interaction. But they are only a segment of MGTOW in general. Many MGOTWs are pursuing an active, social life (and have more time to do so).

    One reason people believe that MGTOWs avoid society is the “4 Levels of MGTOW” cited on MGTOW.com (and which is also cited on Red Pill’s 2014 direction). These levels include:

    Level 1: Situational awareness
    Level 2: Rejection of long-term relationships
    Level 3: Rejection of short-term relationships
    Level 4: Economic disengagement

    In reality, suffice to say, many MGTOWs don’t go onto Stage 3 (“Rejection of short-term relationships”), and even fewer go on to Stage 4 (“Economic disengagement”).

    There is no central mouthpiece of MGTOW and everyone is free to articulate their philosophies. My view is that MGTOWs lead full lives absent the pressure related to relationships or “success with women” which they see as an over-hyped social imposition. On the forums, you’ll encounter oil company executives, blue-collar workers, musicians -- a wide variety.


    Misconception #5. "MGTOWs are angry."

    Men enter into MGTOW awareness at different stages. Some do so right after divorce. Given the nature of family courts and their biases, who could blame those men for being angry afterwards? Like with other disappointments, people go through phases of dealing with this one- the false promise often encountered with LTRs and marriage. There is typically: surprise, anger, discontent (with society and double standards), acceptance and then enjoying a red-pill lifestyle absent the need to “man up” and find a soulmate/get married.

    Some say MGTOWs express this anger by “complaining” about women. I see it as explaining the nature of women. Because MGTOWs are not blinded by their need to court women, they can often be objective about female dynamics, faulty logic, and irrational nature. As Bill Burr says, “Women are constantly patting themselves on the back for how difficult their lives are and no one corrects them because they want to fuck ‘em.” [I]MGTOWs don’t have this problem and often can be effective on calling women on their BS rather than justify female behavior for any number of reasons.When a man is actively courting women, he is often forced to justify warped female behavior since critiquing it doesn’t aid in his pursuit. It is simpler to characterize it as justifiable behavior (ie: “women can’t be faulted for being women”) rather than acknowledge that certain female behavior has gotten worse, not due to biology but a more hospitable culture to female nonsense in general.



    Final thoughts:

    Red Pill is a starting point. From the Red Pill, based on our values and preferences, we can go in different directions. Blue pill society has rigged the game against men; and the red pill is about finding the right countermeasures to live life and enjoy it.

    The history of the manosphere has been that our sense of pride in validating our own life choice’s have often led us to cut down other men not following the same exact path. It explains the constant one-upmanship that’s taken place in the manosphere. We may not agree with each other’s approach, but hopefully we’ll acknowledge the validity of differing approaches (and the reality of overlap between the different approaches as opposed to their being discrete ‘movements’). To each, his own.

    Image source: Public Domain, for reuse
    http://pixabay.com/p-67327/?no_redirect

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).

  2. #2

    Re: The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    Another would be that MGTOW hate women. What amuses me about that is they will say it in a way that actually defeats their own argument. "Oh they won't have sex with women they hate them" will be said by the same people who say "Why can't women just be left alone in peace" well, you got it and you still aren't happy!

    I don't hate women. I just found that once the rose coloured glasses came off for good that I couldn't see myself falling in love anymore. I couldn't see myself wanting to pursue this person who probably in the end doesn't actually like men at all in any meaningful way. It's like trying to make friends with a tiger, sure it looks all pretty but it's not going to treat you well just because you pet it.

    I also feel that as I became more and more MGTOW that I became a deeper person. I started to understand myself better and why I thought I wanted certain things and why now, I realize it was all just a mirage and I was at times fooling myself.

    I was never the stereotypical Blue Pill/Simp anyway but as I became more self aware, I realized that I was running off instincts and societal expectations that were really flawed and a waste of time. Point being that often MGTOW and men in general are seen as these stupid apes that never think or feel. I feel and think more now because I have moved away from simply responding to what I was conditioned to think I wanted.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    I dont quite agree with this part about ghosts:

    “Ghosts” are a subset of MGTOWs who seek to minimize social interaction. But they are only a segment of MGTOW in general. Many MGOTWs are pursuing an active, social life (and have more time to do so).
    Most people beleive they have the right to express their opinions and ideas. They sure have, but they open themselves to consequences from the intolerant blue pill masses.

    Say at your workplace that you are a MGTOW and try to dispell popular myths about it... That will work well...

    So, for your personal wellbeing, safety and social "integration", you should keep some opinions to yourself. For your own advantage.

    You have the right to express yourself, but that is a choice that should be made intelligently, not an obligation.

    To be isolated from social life, living on a basement is not ghosting. It is being a hermit of some sort. It would draw to much attention to a person, and therefore is not ghosting.

    A ghost looks like an average blue pill, indistinguishable from the masses. That is how he stays safe from witch-hunts today or in the future.

    To be ghost is to understand how intolerant the gynocentric society really is, and act accordingly.

  4. #4
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred View Post
    To be isolated from social life, living on a basement is not ghosting. It is being a hermit of some sort. It would draw to much attention to a person, and therefore is not ghosting.

    A ghost looks like an average blue pill, indistinguishable from the masses. That is how he stays safe from witch-hunts today or in the future.
    I can think of three strategies to achieve isolation. All three can be done by same person, at different times and/or at different places.

    1. Concealment: If others dont know you exist, then they cannot witch hunt you. I myself do this in two ways. I am not present in any social media, so all those witch hunters simply dont know I exist. And secondly, I dont talk to neighbors etc (and there are many in densely populated urban areas). So they may know that some person who looks like me lives where I live, they dont know anything else, which conceals any aspect of me which can otherwise incite them to witch hunt me.

    2. Camouflage: The ghosting. You look and behave, superficially, like a usual blue pilled dude. The major difference between this and concealment is... concealment cannot work when you are forced to interact with potential "witch hunters", say in job or anything.

    3. Bribery: You engage in some exchange which the potential witch hunters find highly valuable, and they simply let you be to yourself as long as you DONT try to intrude into their social circle and disrupt anything. This I do with few people who I have to interact (my clients). This requires certain maturity from the other person, who are capable to just look the other way. But because I can choose my clients, I can simply refuse anybody who I think may not have that much impulse control. And yeah, you have to be extra careful NOT to intrude into their lives any further than what is explicitly sanctioned by them personally. You might be asked to follow camouflage/ghosting during the interaction, but of course, you can simply refuse any interaction if you dont want to do that.
    Unless stated otherwise, I am NOT presenting my preferences.

    Preferences can be views, thoughts, opinions, philosophies, morals, values, ideology, imaginations, fantasies, fictions, god, soul, spirit...

    I am using scientific method, its an algorithmic computation, designed to give highest efficiency and chance to win in a conflict, at a very high cost of mental discomfort of not adhering to preferences and spending time and energy on the computation.

  5. #5

    Re: The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    As I see it, said misconceptions are mere shaming tactics in a vain effort to get a RP man back on the plantation. For me, swallowing red means getting the realization women only have one selling point: the V. And for 1/3 of her life only. At best. Women rely on men but not v.v. Yes, the species rely on females but no man individually. IMO the BP means people have made the V the central point of the universe. But when it come down to it: that V is useful for what? 30 seconds of pleasure? What to do with the other 23 hours, 59 minutes and 30 seconds? A perpetual dissatisfied creature, who can't create nor contribute anything an man can't do himself? And in many cases even better than women?
    And I think, despite all the feminist bullshit "we don't need men!" deep down women realize this simple, 1 selling point, fact. And I also think that is the reason the philosophy is being repressed that hard. It's the same as in retarded countries where you get punished if you dare criticize their "beloved leader" and/ or the higher being who has created the universe. "Don't you dare think otherwise, or else..." Now in said countries I would STFU regarding leaders/ religions but not towards women. What are they going to do about it? Deny their V? Like I said: I don't need that in the first place, so be my guest.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    RedPilledSimp, great post with very good points.

    However I dont agree with this part:

    Quote Originally Posted by RedPilledSimp View Post
    And I also think that is the reason the philosophy is being repressed that hard. It's the same as in retarded countries where you get punished if you dare criticize their "beloved leader" and/ or the higher being who has created the universe. "Don't you dare think otherwise, or else..." Now in said countries I would STFU regarding leaders/ religions but not towards women. What are they going to do about it? Deny their V? Like I said: I don't need that in the first place, so be my guest.
    The "thirst" of human males is an ingrained biological mechanism, designed at the core of our sexual dimorphism. Women rely on men, give them children and do menial tasks, while men provide for the family and tribe.

    The gynocentric society just harnessed this biological drive to the greatest productivity potential, essentially bounding men and women in stable couples. All men become workhorses, but in exchange they all have a woman of their own.

    This is why the society cannot allow RP philosophy to be mainstream, because it would undermine their men slave base. We don't call it plantation for no reason.

    So, it is not only women that resist the red pill truth, but the established powers of society as well.

    Feminists under this setting are the ultimate hypocrites, the want to release women from their end of the bargain, but want men to keep their part of said bargain. Therefore feminism is responsible for waking up men to the unfairness of the deal, but only as a side effect of their greed. They want it all, and will lose it all.

  7. #7

    Re: The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    Very good piece. Well thought out. I wish I had time for a more thorough response, but I wanted to at least say that the part about how "the more things change, the more they stay the same" (under point 2) was excellent.



  8. #8
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    Re: The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    A woman once told me that I'd end up murdering women and that I needed psychological help because I said that I didn't want to get married. The mental gymnastics she did to arrive at that conclusion is...impressive, for lack of a better word.

  9. #9
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    Re: The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    Quote Originally Posted by _RPK_ View Post
    A woman once told me that I'd end up murdering women and that I needed psychological help because I said that I didn't want to get married. The mental gymnastics she did to arrive at that conclusion is...impressive, for lack of a better word.
    Erm...

    I hate to ask but ... was she right or wrong?

    (Just a bit of banter - LOL)

  10. #10

    Re: The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    Quote Originally Posted by _RPK_ View Post
    A woman once told me that I'd end up murdering women and that I needed psychological help because I said that I didn't want to get married. The mental gymnastics she did to arrive at that conclusion is...impressive, for lack of a better word.
    I've run across the same thing. "You don't want to get married. Therefore, you're going to turn into a serial killer who murders women at night." Yes, that took serious mental gymnastics. I ain't no Ted Bundy and don't want to be. I mostly just leave women alone. When I do talk with them, I'm perfectly friendly and cordial.

  11. #11

    Re: The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinichi Haku View Post
    Enkidu Gambit. Females and soyboys are terrified of those not having sex because it means you don't care about soyciety and also don't care what happens with it. Clearly that must mean you'll destroy it yourself (which you also don't care about).
    If you justify not having sex with "I just don't want to add to the overcrowding of our planet and I'm just mindful of the strain on our climate", most of them shut up.

  12. #12

    Re: The 5 Misconceptions of MGTOW

    Quote Originally Posted by _RPK_ View Post
    A woman once told me that I'd end up murdering women and that I needed psychological help because I said that I didn't want to get married. The mental gymnastics she did to arrive at that conclusion is...impressive, for lack of a better word.
    lol yeah I have had similar. Anything you say that challenges them or they don't like will have you defined as a psychopath. What's even more ironic is they are the same people who carry on about shaming and judging others and how wrong it is!


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