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  1. #21
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    As for your example of gravity, yes I accept it exists. This is easy to demonstrate. As for what it is and what causes it I have absolutely no idea except that it has been shown its effects are directly proportional to mass. How this effect is propagated however has baffled scientists for years. I doubt it’s electromagnetic in nature as this would probably have been detected by now, but I do take your point.
    Actually no one has ever demonstrated that gravity exists. That is to say, that large masses attract smaller ones. No experiment has shown this to my knowledge. All we can observe is that all things fall to the earth, but what causes this is not clear.
    Magnetism is the best theory in my opinion. Given everything is made up of atoms, we can say that all things are inherently 'electrical'. What we understand of magnets is that it's differences in atomic structure that cause things to attract or repel.

    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
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    Take the established 'truth' as far as society is concerned and go 180 degrees from that... there you will find the truth. Society is ass-backwards and your job is undoing all that BS you were programmed with your entire life.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by happybachelor View Post

    Actually no one has ever demonstrated that gravity exists. That is to say, that large masses attract smaller ones.

    What about the probes and rockets and satellites we send out into space? These take gravitational effects into account to correctly compute trajectories, not only that of the earth. Or the movements of the planets in our solar system?

    As for magnetism and electromagnetism I have also considered these. I doubt they are the true cause because we have found ways to block these, not merely offset them with an equal and opposite force. We have yet to find a way to block the effects of gravity although we can offset them to some degree.

    But even if true this isn’t an answer because no-one seems to be able to explain how these forces propagate either. Yes they can measure the effect and say it’s because opposite poles attract, but it doesn’t explain the mechanism of how they attract.
    Last edited by Jackoff; May 19, 2021 at 5:24 PM.

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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    If it helps the study

    I am Protestant, 5 pt Calvinist. I dont think my faith blue pilled me, but the Church environment dis and still tries to reel me back in. Pastor is trying to get me to socialize with a single lady mid 40s in the congregation. Lucky for me , she is way too unattractive to be tempting. Im late 50s, so I get a pass. But I know younger guys are pushed to wife up leftovers and single moms

  4. #24
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankS View Post
    If it helps the study

    I am Protestant, 5 pt Calvinist. I dont think my faith blue pilled me, but the Church environment dis and still tries to reel me back in. Pastor is trying to get me to socialize with a single lady mid 40s in the congregation. Lucky for me , she is way too unattractive to be tempting. Im late 50s, so I get a pass. But I know younger guys are pushed to wife up leftovers and single moms
    Church needs to focus less on men mopping up the sloppy leftovers of a sexual revolution and more on accountability towards the females for perpetuating and fostering it, in other words, telling them they're shit out of luck and deal with your chickens that came home to roost, ahhh, never mind, men by our absence are driving that message home!
    If government forces an experimental vaccine on you it's citizen, sure as hell's hot, it will assume it has the obligation to make all your medical decisions.

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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Spinsterhood. A woman’s worst nightmare.

    Ha! Ha!

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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    May I go back to the original post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Latinus View Post
    On that topic about the creation of artificial wombs and genetically enhanced humans, for instance, some guys say this would be a great idea, but some guys say it would be dangerous and immoral. Some Mgtows support more technological and Transhumanist ideals, but some support more Primitivist (as luddite or survivalist) ideals. And some other Mgtows support more Hedonism, Extinctionism, Conservatism or Libertarianism. All of these ideologies have pros and cons, of course. But how can we really decide if some idea is a good or a bad idea? Moral or immoral (or even ammoral)? True or false? We need to judge based on some "reference points" (and even some Supreme reference point).
    Do we?

    Why?

    MGTOW is primarily about discerning female traits. They’re there for all to see especially once pointed out. Why do we need a philosophy?

    But maybe you’d like to quantify us in some way. What goes in to the making of a MGTOW? Am I close?

    It should be obvious from your own comment and the differences of opinion expressed in the very thread that regardless of how we got to MGTOW we are all individuals with all that entails.

    If I’m wrong here please accept my apologies, but don’t try to categorise us, that’s the job of the others. Let them waste their time on trying to stick us in to their nice neat little boxes.


  7. #27
    Senior Member Latinus's Avatar
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    May I go back to the original post:

    Do we?

    Why?

    MGTOW is primarily about discerning female traits. Theyíre there for all to see especially once pointed out. Why do we need a philosophy?

    But maybe youíd like to quantify us in some way. What goes in to the making of a MGTOW? Am I close?

    It should be obvious from your own comment and the differences of opinion expressed in the very thread that regardless of how we got to MGTOW we are all individuals with all that entails.

    If Iím wrong here please accept my apologies, but donít try to categorise us, thatís the job of the others. Let them waste their time on trying to stick us in to their nice neat little boxes.
    When I said "we" I was talking about humans as a whole actually. But Mgtows, even if don't having an organized philosophy, also need some philosophical reference points, at least to answering some basic questions.

    Because for instance, as you mentioned yourself, to discern female traits you need reference points to analyze what is really true or false about them. Or not?

    If we say an affirmation like "all women are like that", we say this based on what? Our own personal experiences? On statistical researches? On studies about human biology? On logical reasoning? We just believe it and fuck the proofs? Other option? Which of those options should be valid? Or we dont need some reference points to analyze what is true or false?

    And more, to judge if such female traits are good or bad, you need some reference points to define what is right or wrong with them. Or not?

    When many Mgtows say that they dislike female traits as being promiscuous and being single mothers (what I think it is a bullshit, since I support these two things, and I am also a Mgtow), they say such judgements based on which kind of reference points? I have my reasons to support single mothers and promiscuous girls, because I have different reference points to judge them. What reference points should be valid?

    If those philosophical differences become more and more clear, more Mgtows will create more and more different sub-groups inside different "boxes" (And actually it is already happening, like it or not). So the point is, which of such sub-groups would be a better way to go and a better solution to our problems.

    There are Mgtows that support the creation of artificial wombs and genetical engineering. Other Mgtows dislike such ideas and see new technologies as oppressive, dangerous and that we should destroy it. They are two boxes, or not? Even if they start to hate and killing each other in the future?

    If more Mgtows start supporting terrorist attacks (but you don't support this), they and you are in two different boxes, or not?

    And then, if the police and governments around the world consider Mgtow as a whole as a terrorist group, and start a big chase to send all of us to jail (even Mgtows who are against terrorism), we are inside the same box, or not?

    I could give more examples why we should define well what we believe in, even if we affirm that we dont follow an organized philosophy. So if you realize that, you can write in this thread which are your Reference Points to judge all those questions, even if you "dont need a philosophy".
    Last edited by Latinus; May 19, 2021 at 11:14 PM.

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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by Latinus View Post
    When I said "we" I was talking about humans as a whole actually. But Mgtows, even if don't having an organized philosophy, also need some philosophical reference points, at least to answering some basic questions.

    Because for instance, as you mentioned yourself, to discern female traits you need reference points to analyze what is really true or false about them. Or not?
    NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO!

    Going Your Own Way – what is it about this phrase you don’t understand? There is no philosophy to analyse and organise.

    We don’t need any reference points either to discern what is true and false about female behaviour, all we have to do is open ours eyes and look at the fekkers. It's not like you can miss them, they're friggin' everywhere.

    I’m in my 50’s. Do you think I rely on what is said on the internet to form my opinions on women? I was MGTOW when the internet was still pissing and shitting in its nappy and the term MGTOW hadn’t been coined. I learned from what I experienced and witnessed, not from what I was told.

    You want a philosophy? Try this:

    Women are what they are. Some of us choose to call them out on it. End of story!
    Last edited by Jackoff; May 20, 2021 at 12:02 AM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Latinus's Avatar
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO!

    Going Your Own Way – what is it about this phrase you don’t understand? There is no philosophy to analyse and organise.

    We don’t need any reference points either to discern what is true and false about female behaviour, all we have to do is open ours eyes and look at the fekkers. It's not like you can miss them.

    I’m in my 50’s. Do you think I rely on what is said on the internet to form my opinions on women? I was MGTOW when the internet was still pissing and shitting in its nappy and the term MGTOW hadn’t been coined.

    Women are what they are. Some of us choose to call them out on it. End of story!
    I thought that a 50 old boy should give better answers than cryings and irrationalities like a girl. But I already have heard this story many times actually. But if these "arguments" work for you and others like you, fine. I am not even against it.

    But I have seen many Mgtows out there still lost and wanting better support to find where to go. So if you are not one of them and have nothing to elaborate, I will not waste my time with you. Keep believing what you wish.

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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by Latinus View Post
    I thought that a 50 old boy should give better answers than cryings and irrationalities like a girl. But I already have heard this story many times actually. But if these "arguments" work for you and others like you, fine. I am not even against it.

    But I have seen many Mgtows out there still lost and wanting better support to find where to go. So if you are not one of them and have nothing to elaborate, I will not waste my time with you. Keep believing what you wish.
    Oooh, them's is fightin' words.

    O.K. then.

    "50 yr. old boy" - attempt at provocation, implication being I have a juvenile mind. Typical female behaviour when they have nothing to argue with. Attempt to change the focus of the conversation.

    "cryings and irrationalities like a girl" - Typical female reaction in an attempt to shame the dominant male.

    Just who is acting more like a female here?

    You try to box us in (so typical of the blue pillers), I try to explain to you why this is not possible, you ignore my explanation and resort to name calling.

    Here fishy, fishy.




    I guess it didn't take long for things to degenerate here.
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  11. #31
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    I sense a real bromance developing here!

    <sarc/off>
    If government forces an experimental vaccine on you it's citizen, sure as hell's hot, it will assume it has the obligation to make all your medical decisions.

  12. #32
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    I sense a real bromance developing here!

    <sarc/off>
    LOL

    Naw, unless further provoked I'm outta this thread.

  13. #33

    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES NO!

    Going Your Own Way Ė what is it about this phrase you donít understand? There is no philosophy to analyse and organise.

    We donít need any reference points either to discern what is true and false about female behaviour, all we have to do is open ours eyes and look at the fekkers. It's not like you can miss them, they're friggin' everywhere.

    Iím in my 50ís. Do you think I rely on what is said on the internet to form my opinions on women? I was MGTOW when the internet was still pissing and shitting in its nappy and the term MGTOW hadnít been coined. I learned from what I experienced and witnessed, not from what I was told.

    You want a philosophy? Try this:

    Women are what they are. Some of us choose to call them out on it. End of story!
    Hi J, forgive me if I'm being presumptuous, but I do believe you are both not really at odds, just a slight problem of good faith.

    From latinus' perspective, I guess what he is trying to do is create a frame work to make it easier for men who have yet to decide if mgtow is for them, to quickly get the gist and how to go about applying a consistent philosophy in their lives, to insulate them from the wiles of women and navigate the present cultural impasse.


    On your own end, I believe you are firmly of the opinion that a man should be free to decide what are his values regardless of any common thread that binds him to mgtow.I do believe you are both right but to play devil's advocate for latinus, I think considering them as mere frame works which don't necessarily have to be followed as some scripture from some deity but rather play the role of that which older men in all communities in the past have always done for the next generation by arming them with the proper information to navigate life.

    Initiation used to be a thing, not to say that's what's going on here, but just having the gist of what it means to be mgtow even if it's from different perspectives and even adaptations, is an advantage most men are never given.


    A good example would be the Greek pantheon where despite all the gods being honored some were more than others.

    In the market place of ideas, I don't think it's controversial to point out that our discussions here are not merely to shoot the breeze, else most would have moved on . I think we are trying, no matter how little to refine our understanding and hence interaction with the world, and I think it is a valuable endeavour.

    We do not have to reinvent calculus each time we need to solve an equation, as the heavy lifting has been done by someone else, it does not necessarily constrain but frees us, by offering one more tool in our tool box.

    While I don't know if {speaking personally for myself now},my ideas might not appeal to everyone but it seems to me that they are not my ideas per se, but a means of navigating the world that past generations have laid out and we are merely adapting it to our current era. Yet there are some truths in there which are objective and of course some subjective.


    To illustrate if I say not to treat one's friends badly, there are many universally agreed upon ideas on what it means to be a good friend based on what can be considered objective data, it doesn't mean one must adhere to them all, or any even,it just means these ways of being are favourable to that goal. And conversely, if I say a black man for example, should behave in certain ways, in certain environments, it is subjective, but can still be of value to the right person.

    In the long run I think it's just our normal conversations we're having and if it happens to be beneficial to someone, then all the better.
    Cheers

  14. #34
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    If we say an affirmation like "all women are like that", we say this based on what? Our own personal experiences? On statistical researches? On studies about human biology? On logical reasoning? We just believe it and fuck the proofs? Other option? Which of those options should be valid? Or we dont need some reference points to analyze what is true or false?
    First define what a term means, then put forward your thesis and discuss. I am not a fan of providing 'proofs', because in the social realm at least, no one proof proves the thesis - it has to be a synthesis of many proofs. And any one proof can be easily deconstructed and misconstrued, and often that's used to refute your entire hypothesis. I tend to think the truth is self evident, ie the proofs are everywhere if you open your eyes. For example, try explaining female nature to your average woman. You will get "yeah but..." to every single point, and she will never be able to connect all the dots to form a generalised truth about women.
    Also, 'proofs' are often falsified. Your average normie would tell you that human-precipitated climate change is irrefutable because of the all the evidence. But all the evidence is suspect because it's based on faulty models and assumptions, not to mention the massive political agenda behind it. A faulty calculator will never give the right answer, no matter how elaborate or correct the equation.

    And more, to judge if such female traits are good or bad, you need some reference points to define what is right or wrong with them. Or not?
    I'm in agreement with this. It's definitely a talking point, I don't side completely with men who see women as mostly bad. I recognise it is nature, and I cannot be in opposition to nature because that would make me abominable. Now that does not mean I excuse their immorality, not one bit. I think morality with regards to human behaviour is an interesting talking point.
    My personal opinion is that women have been duped by the controllers, useful idiots for their depop/divide/destroy agenda, because women are so easily duped and willing to follow orders from authorities. I retain a great deal of compassion for women, honestly I view them as child like, and I retain compassion for children even when they err, because they know not.

    When many Mgtows say that they dislike female traits as being promiscuous and being single mothers (what I think it is a bullshit, since I support these two things, and I am also a Mgtow), they say such judgements based on which kind of reference points? I have my reasons to support single mothers and promiscuous girls, because I have different reference points to judge them. What reference points should be valid?
    Interesting, do you support these things because it makes you freer of the expectation to be on the plantation? Genuinely interested in your position.
    I do not support these things because it they are bringing about the dissolution of our peoples. You could call me a hypocrite with me being a MGTOW, but I think society has room for a few oddballs and it's even a good thing! I honestly just do not think I am built for family life. But I recognise it's healthy for a population for that to be the norm. Certainly most women pine for family life, deep down, and yet they are going against it all the time. I am just better as a lone wolf, wannabe sage.

    If those philosophical differences become more and more clear, more Mgtows will create more and more different sub-groups inside different "boxes" (And actually it is already happening, like it or not). So the point is, which of such sub-groups would be a better way to go and a better solution to our problems.
    Potentially yes. One train of thought is we need to appeal to the younger market. Another says fuck that, why do we? Man comes to MGTOW in his own time, or not. I more agree with the latter, this is where Jackoff is coming from. I do not like too much interference in things.

    There are Mgtows that support the creation of artificial wombs and genetical engineering. Other Mgtows dislike such ideas and see new technologies as oppressive, dangerous and that we should destroy it. They are two boxes, or not? Even if they start to hate and killing each other in the future?
    As we have recently seen, it is impossible to come to an agreed answer. We end up with roughly 2 or 3 groups, for, against and on the fence. I am part of the against, as spiritually such things are not an option for me. I am however willing to read reasoned arguments, even if I do not agree with them. I have in the past reacted viscerally, scornfully to such things and that is a problem of mine which I am improving.

    If more Mgtows start supporting terrorist attacks (but you don't support this), they and you are in two different boxes, or not?
    I think such MGTOWs would not find a home here or among any group of MGTOWs in general. That is a rather different path, MGTOW is more about finding peace than destroying, in my experience.

    And then, if the police and governments around the world consider Mgtow as a whole as a terrorist group, and start a big chase to send all of us to jail (even Mgtows who are against terrorism), we are inside the same box, or not?

    This is a future possibility, no doubt. It's a good reason not to define too much. We are not card carrying members, we simply blend in with the population at large.
    In a way you must recognise that your efforts to define and stratify aims to put men into neat boxes. This is a topic in itself. I think it can be dangerous, and don't you know I am just too unique and special to be put into one box?
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
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    Take the established 'truth' as far as society is concerned and go 180 degrees from that... there you will find the truth. Society is ass-backwards and your job is undoing all that BS you were programmed with your entire life.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


  15. #35
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    I will offer another analogy related to a topic which is personal to me.

    I am a keen amateur road cyclist. Most people of my ability use

    strava, or some other app
    use a power meter
    indoor trainer, Zwift etc

    But I do none of these. This defies conventional opinion because that states that knowing all your data is the best way to improve. Yet I ride more on 'feel', and yet I am stronger than 90% of the people I ride with. i ride outdoors in the winter because it toughens me up and improves my bike handling. I hate sitting on a bike indoors.
    My point is that the more we try to stratify and define, the more we drill down.. the further away we get from something more intuitive. The end point, it seems, is a person who does not view their own feelings and intuition as valid, because the data is proof. It turns into something robotic.
    I ride hard when I feel good, rest when I need to, stretch when I am tight, etc. And I judge my ability and improvements based on my performances out on the road. Without the data I cannot 'prove' this to anyone. But I don't care. If team Ineos comes knocking on my door, which at 37 is increasingly unlikely.. maybe I will then.
    I also need to admit that part of why I don't use all this data is knowing myself, and what it will turn me into. Riding starts to become a chore, where you feel pressure to always ride fast, beat your PRs, not diminish your stats as everyone can see them. Worrying about stats first thing after a ride, poring over the data while sat on the toilet. Many riders have admitted this effect to me.
    My goal was always to become a better rider, all round. When I get too strong for one group, look for stronger riders until I can keep up with them. And I have done this without worrying about any data. The most I do is have a couple of fixed routes and my old skool bike computer tells me the time and average speed for my PBs.

    Another analogy would be dissecting a frog, viewing it at a cellular level, in order to understand the frog. The irony being, the more we do this, the less we understand the frog. If you get me.
    I dunno if any of this resonates with anyone. I accept this is a little woo woo.
    Peace bros.
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
    Follower of Christ.
    Take the established 'truth' as far as society is concerned and go 180 degrees from that... there you will find the truth. Society is ass-backwards and your job is undoing all that BS you were programmed with your entire life.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


  16. #36
    Senior Member Latinus's Avatar
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by happybachelor View Post
    First define what a term means, then put forward your thesis and discuss. I am not a fan of providing 'proofs', because in the social realm at least, no one proof proves the thesis - it has to be a synthesis of many proofs. And any one proof can be easily deconstructed and misconstrued, and often that's used to refute your entire hypothesis. I tend to think the truth is self evident, ie the proofs are everywhere if you open your eyes. For example, try explaining female nature to your average woman. You will get "yeah but..." to every single point, and she will never be able to connect all the dots to form a generalised truth about women.
    Also, 'proofs' are often falsified. Your average normie would tell you that human-precipitated climate change is irrefutable because of the all the evidence. But all the evidence is suspect because it's based on faulty models and assumptions, not to mention the massive political agenda behind it. A faulty calculator will never give the right answer, no matter how elaborate or correct the equation.

    I'm in agreement with this. It's definitely a talking point, I don't side completely with men who see women as mostly bad. I recognise it is nature, and I cannot be in opposition to nature because that would make me abominable. Now that does not mean I excuse their immorality, not one bit. I think morality with regards to human behaviour is an interesting talking point.
    My personal opinion is that women have been duped by the controllers, useful idiots for their depop/divide/destroy agenda, because women are so easily duped and willing to follow orders from authorities. I retain a great deal of compassion for women, honestly I view them as child like, and I retain compassion for children even when they err, because they know not.

    Interesting, do you support these things because it makes you freer of the expectation to be on the plantation? Genuinely interested in your position.
    I do not support these things because it they are bringing about the dissolution of our peoples. You could call me a hypocrite with me being a MGTOW, but I think society has room for a few oddballs and it's even a good thing! I honestly just do not think I am built for family life. But I recognise it's healthy for a population for that to be the norm. Certainly most women pine for family life, deep down, and yet they are going against it all the time. I am just better as a lone wolf, wannabe sage.

    Potentially yes. One train of thought is we need to appeal to the younger market. Another says fuck that, why do we? Man comes to MGTOW in his own time, or not. I more agree with the latter, this is where Jackoff is coming from. I do not like too much interference in things.

    As we have recently seen, it is impossible to come to an agreed answer. We end up with roughly 2 or 3 groups, for, against and on the fence. I am part of the against, as spiritually such things are not an option for me. I am however willing to read reasoned arguments, even if I do not agree with them. I have in the past reacted viscerally, scornfully to such things and that is a problem of mine which I am improving.

    I think such MGTOWs would not find a home here or among any group of MGTOWs in general. That is a rather different path, MGTOW is more about finding peace than destroying, in my experience.


    This is a future possibility, no doubt. It's a good reason not to define too much. We are not card carrying members, we simply blend in with the population at large.
    In a way you must recognise that your efforts to define and stratify aims to put men into neat boxes. This is a topic in itself. I think it can be dangerous, and don't you know I am just too unique and special to be put into one box?
    Well, now I have too complex answers to analize. I will read more about this post in parts and also that from African-Daoist.

    But for now, I can say that I understand the way you try to analyze the truth about women, but I tend to choose a more biological patterns. Since we can consider humans as an animal species, and since animal species have behaviour patterns that define how they all act, then we can find some behaviour patterns that we can apply to all women if we see such patterns in a enough number of women. Of course that human behaviour is more complex if compared to other animals, but we still have some patterns.

    But actually I dont agree with that idea that "women are not bad, they are just manipulated". Oh please. What I can see is that women are mostly bad IF they are dealing with Beta males or with those guys who they see as "unimportant". But they can really become suddenly into good girls if they are dealing with Alpha males, or at least with Betas who are not completely stupid blue pills and simps (and I am inside this RedPill Beta category, lol). And this is another pattern that we can see enough if we pay attention.

    I can agree that they are easily manipulated to act in a way or another, but not by Betas. And if their biological patterns are bad or acceptable, this is a more complex topic to analyze.

    And about why I support promiscuous girls and single mothers is in some way because this really can be strategic to give us more freedom too. Promiscuous girls I see as more "natural girls", so I trust them more. They are not perfect, but I dont trust women who try to show themselves as "good girls" or "pure angels". These "good women" are mostly fake persons trying to be what they are not. More promiscuous girls can make more men, including stupid blue pills, realize that they will not find a Nawalt and that women are not the pure angels that simps think they are.

    And I support single mothers because of a logical reason, after all. I support more independence for people. Marriage is anti-independence, since two persons become dependent on each other. Then I support that more people should stay single. Including women who become mothers. Because if I am against marriage, I am against all marriages, including for single mothers. But of course, I am not against people who think that marriage can be a better option sometimes. I just dont agree with that romantic bullshit that see finding another person to marry as mandatory.

    About waiting for young guys finding Mgtow by themselves, actually what I realize is that many more are finding and many already found it but they are still lost since their life sucks as a whole, making more hard to find a way to go. This is even more clear to realize in a country like Brazil, that is limited in many ways and sucks even for Alphas. It is hard to young guys have progress here if they are lost. This is why I always try to give some new ideas that they can have as reference points.

    And more, some other new Mgtows already have their own way, but some of those ways are very different from other ways. The pro-advanced technologies and the anti-advanced technologies Mgtows are just one example. I am not putting them in different boxes, Mgtows are doing it themselves, and I think this will happen more and more. I am just trying to make it clear to everyone realize.
    Last edited by Latinus; May 20, 2021 at 6:51 PM.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Latinus's Avatar
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by African-Daoist View Post

    From latinus' perspective, I guess what he is trying to do is create a frame work to make it easier for men who have yet to decide if mgtow is for them, to quickly get the gist and how to go about applying a consistent philosophy in their lives, to insulate them from the wiles of women and navigate the present cultural impasse.

    On your own end, I believe you are firmly of the opinion that a man should be free to decide what are his values regardless of any common thread that binds him to mgtow.I do believe you are both right but to play devil's advocate for latinus, I think considering them as mere frame works which don't necessarily have to be followed as some scripture from some deity but rather play the role of that which older men in all communities in the past have always done for the next generation by arming them with the proper information to navigate life.

    Initiation used to be a thing, not to say that's what's going on here, but just having the gist of what it means to be mgtow even if it's from different perspectives and even adaptations, is an advantage most men are never given.

    A good example would be the Greek pantheon where despite all the gods being honored some were more than others.

    In the market place of ideas, I don't think it's controversial to point out that our discussions here are not merely to shoot the breeze, else most would have moved on . I think we are trying, no matter how little to refine our understanding and hence interaction with the world, and I think it is a valuable endeavour.

    We do not have to reinvent calculus each time we need to solve an equation, as the heavy lifting has been done by someone else, it does not necessarily constrain but frees us, by offering one more tool in our tool box.

    While I don't know if {speaking personally for myself now},my ideas might not appeal to everyone but it seems to me that they are not my ideas per se, but a means of navigating the world that past generations have laid out and we are merely adapting it to our current era. Yet there are some truths in there which are objective and of course some subjective.

    To illustrate if I say not to treat one's friends badly, there are many universally agreed upon ideas on what it means to be a good friend based on what can be considered objective data, it doesn't mean one must adhere to them all, or any even,it just means these ways of being are favourable to that goal. And conversely, if I say a black man for example, should behave in certain ways, in certain environments, it is subjective, but can still be of value to the right person.

    In the long run I think it's just our normal conversations we're having and if it happens to be beneficial to someone, then all the better.
    Cheers
    And not only for those men who have yet to decide, but also for those who already decided that Mgtow is for them but dont have found their own way yet. As I said in the previous post to Happy Bachelor, some wish to go their own way but can not find their own way, as we could say.

    And when I talk about reference points, I am talking about some ideas that can help them to use as a guide to find their own way. Even for those Mgtows who don't want to be classified inside a box have some reference point, maybe Freedom, Authenticity, the Ego. And it is valid since these are some main points that make some men go their own way, because they want to be Free and Unique.

    But for others, being free and unique is not possible yet, or it does not make sense sometimes, because we are not completely free to decide what is true or false, right or wrong, for instance. And this can be frustrating for some Mgtows. So this is what makes me think if there are other options to use as reference than just Freedom to believe in what we want. Power, Happiness, Moderation are some references that I have found among some Mgtows out there but I am looking for more options.

    By the way, you African-Daoist as one of our most philosophical members could also tell us if you have some reference points to analize all those points that I wrote about to find what is true or false, right or wrong, and so on. I am curious if you could talk more about your references. I will also talk more about this later.
    Last edited by Latinus; May 20, 2021 at 7:50 PM.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    What about the probes and rockets and satellites we send out into space? These take gravitational effects into account to correctly compute trajectories, not only that of the earth. Or the movements of the planets in our solar system?

    As for magnetism and electromagnetism I have also considered these. I doubt they are the true cause because we have found ways to block these, not merely offset them with an equal and opposite force. We have yet to find a way to block the effects of gravity although we can offset them to some degree.

    But even if true this isn’t an answer because no-one seems to be able to explain how these forces propagate either. Yes they can measure the effect and say it’s because opposite poles attract, but it doesn’t explain the mechanism of how they attract.
    The discovery of gravity waves was a massive break through.

    Observation is the start of a journey and only then you can piece it together.

    My love of science and Christianity allows me a unique perspective where the two work in unison. Only in the western world do you find science at odds with Christianity but in all other parts of the world they work in harmony.

  19. #39
    Senior Member happybachelor's Avatar
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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    What about the probes and rockets and satellites we send out into space? These take gravitational effects into account to correctly compute trajectories, not only that of the earth. Or the movements of the planets in our solar system?


    As for magnetism and electromagnetism I have also considered these. I doubt they are the true cause because we have found ways to block these, not merely offset them with an equal and opposite force. We have yet to find a way to block the effects of gravity although we can offset them to some degree.


    But even if true this isn’t an answer because no-one seems to be able to explain how these forces propagate either. Yes they can measure the effect and say it’s because opposite poles attract, but it doesn’t explain the mechanism of how they attract.
    I think you are confused bro. Rockets and 'space' is not evidence of gravity.


    Gravity - the theory that large objects attract smaller ones. We have never been able to demonstrate this because I doubt it is true. If it were, we would have been destroyed by a thousand meteorites. Or maybe we are protected by the magical barrier which holds everything in and keeps everything out...
    Electromagnetism - this is not a theory because we can observe it actually happens. We believe it's due to electrons rotating around the nucleus and the differences in substances cause attraction/repulsion.
    Thus one has to conclude that electromagnetism is more likely, surely. Because there is actually evidence for it.

    My love of science and Christianity allows me a unique perspective where the two work in unison. Only in the western world do you find science at odds with Christianity but in all other parts of the world they work in harmony.
    Very true bro.
    Alpha male with a warrior spirit.
    Follower of Christ.
    Take the established 'truth' as far as society is concerned and go 180 degrees from that... there you will find the truth. Society is ass-backwards and your job is undoing all that BS you were programmed with your entire life.
    When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing. They then become capable of believing in anything.


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    Re: New Religions and Philosophies among Mgtows

    Quote Originally Posted by happybachelor View Post
    I think you are confused bro. Rockets and 'space' is not evidence of gravity.


    Gravity - the theory that large objects attract smaller ones. We have never been able to demonstrate this because I doubt it is true. If it were, we would have been destroyed by a thousand meteorites. Or maybe we are protected by the magical barrier which holds everything in and keeps everything out...
    Electromagnetism - this is not a theory because we can observe it actually happens. We believe it's due to electrons rotating around the nucleus and the differences in substances cause attraction/repulsion.
    Thus one has to conclude that electromagnetism is more likely, surely. Because there is actually evidence for it.
    Confused? Who in their right mind doesn’t get confused when talking about sciency things?

    I know you have a big distrust of everything we’re told and this is healthy IMO, but that doesn’t mean they’re all lies. Discerning fact from fiction can be difficult and because of this I’ll try to explain my stance from the viewpoint of what’s easily observed.

    I chose outer space in my argument because that’s the one thing we can’t influence and manipulate, I thought you would appreciate that.

    Newtonian physics, the one that is based on observable fact rather than just mathematics, tells us that a body in motion will continue along its trajectory in a straight line at a constant speed unless acted upon by another force.

    Do you accept this?

    If not I suggest looking it up and carrying out some experiments for yourself. Most of them are easy enough to do if you have the inclination, the time and the dosh for the necessary equipment.

    If you do, then consider this. The planets are in motion as are their moons, but they don’t travel in straight lines they travel in orbits. But Newtonian physics says this isn’t possible unless there is another force at play. This force is what we call gravity (although it’s not actually a force in scientific terms, but that’s another discussion). Give it any other name you like but the effect is the same, so why not call it gravity.

    So, have we established that gravity exists outside the earth even if you would like to put another name on it?

    So why did I mention rockets?

    For a start, we send shit out into space. This is easily verified, just look up. The ISS is visible to the naked eye. If you doubt this try looking at it through a telescope. If we can do that then communications and surveillance satellites are a breeze.

    Accepting this, why wouldn’t we send the odd one a bit further out if only to see what’s out there? Who knows, there might be something we can exploit?

    If you accept that gravity exists, then this would impact the trajectory of the rockets as they pass by the moon and Mars and so on. The flight controllers take these calculations in to account and as far as I can tell they seem to get it pretty much spot on.

    All this is to say that if what we believe about gravity being proportional to mass and distance isn’t true, then surely their calculations would be way off. In other words this can be classed as a real life experiment.

    As for asteroid and meteorite collisions, they happen all the time. It is thought that most of the big scary ones have already impacted the planets and moons. This fits in with observable evidence. 1. We’re still here, and 2. When you look at the moon you can see the impact craters that, due to lack of meaningful atmosphere have been preserved over the ages. You can see pictures of this online but if you doubt their veracity a cheap telescope will allow you to verify this for yourself.

    And lastly to electromagnetism.

    I never said magnetism nor electromagnetism are theories, they are observable phenomenon. What I did say is that we can control them to a degree. We can block their effects. I think the use of iron (having magnetic properties itself) is a big factor here but don’t quote me on that. But bringing iron, or any other material into the equation when talking about gravity only adds to the mass thus increasing the gravitational effect rather than blocking it.

    Therefore I see the two as separate although they could possibly be utilizing a similar mechanism, one which we’re currently unaware of, and so I cannot discount the possibility that they’re connected in some way.

    I hope I’m not breaking my word by replying to this as it is off topic to the main thread.

    P.S. Could you be trying to get me to use the phrase "What else could it be?" I'm afraid this notion rarely enters my thoughts as an explanation. As a motive to delve deeper yes, but not as a final explanation.
    Last edited by Jackoff; May 21, 2021 at 2:46 PM.


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