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  1. #1

    "Red Piller" or Just another Brick in the Wall

    I have to de-construct this whole Red Pill idea, as it pertains to the men's movement. At first glance it was one of the precepts which resonated with me the most. It is a term which is used in the truth and patriot movements to denote a choice one makes when they decide to tune out from the lying corporate whore media, rampant consumerism, cultural marxism, etc. I guess everyone who has made a significant lifestyle change away from societies norm can relate to this analogy to a greater or lesser degree. I have to constantly remind myself that not everyone shares my worldview. What I am trying to get to is this mis-appropriation (IMHO) of the term "Red Pill", at least insofar as Reddit is concerned. I understand every movement needs a recognizable identity. It doesn't have to be flashy or marketing driven, although I think "MGTOW" needs some work - LOL. To my point; what I have seen of the aforementioned sub-reddit, and I am not hatin' here, doesn't really qualify. Now I might be missing the big picture but what I have seen is it is geared toward the PUA end of the manosphere. Am I wrong? Whether it's because of the popularity of articles about increasing ones SMV or "hittin' the gym to get more quim" or if that is truly the editorial bent, it seems to me that the idea of taking the "red pill" as pertains to changing sexual politics and interpersonal commerce should aim a little higher. Again I am not hatin' on the pick-up-artists and Apex Alphas out there. Whatever floats your boat. My opinion is that trying to improve ones marketability for its own sake and not for the sake of improving health is really sticking with the old false paradigm of consumerism and self-interest. Is it trying to beat the feminists at their own game? Should I just stick to "Ghost Nation" oriented blogs or am I missing something?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: "Red Piller" or Just another Brick in the Wall

    I think I can help clarify the confusion. The reddit redpill is mostly about self improvement and gaming is a part of it yes but that more often is a side benefit from self improvement. However, they acknowledge that to game so much that you have to go back into the blue pill world and heavily interact in the blue pill world using red pill knowledge.

    In the last year or so things are changing there as more talk of self improvement dominates over gaming strategies. I think where MGTOW's diverge is that we take it a step further in that it is dangerous to play by the blue pill rules even if you know the red pill knowledge. Furthermore, it is hard to keep frame forever as it isn't realistic and spinning plates eventually becomes tiresome. So, this is how many purple pillers (as we call them) decide to go MGTOW and just focus on self improvement or go into "monk mode" for a very long period of time.

  3. #3
    Moderator Chairborne's Avatar
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    Re: "Red Piller" or Just another Brick in the Wall

    The PUA community laid claim to, and popularized the term "The Red Pill". That's all. It's pretty much cemented in online lexicon, people refer to TRP and most know what it's referring to - depeding on who you ask, it's either "men who understand womens' nature," or "men who hate women."

    Now, would the truther, patriot, vegan, counter-jihad, environmentalist or even aliens-are-among-us movements perhaps want to claim the term "The Red Pill" and redefine what it's come to mean? Good luck to 'em.

    There was an attempt by some feminist to popularize the notion a few years back in regards to "seeing through to the Patriarchy" using the same metaphor of the Matrix but it never picked up. Delicious irony, I bet the malcontented hag who drew this cartoon gets her panties twisted over the popularity of TRP as a term of Male emancipation and empowerment:

    1392264941231.gif

    That's the beauty of English, and the beauty of the Internet - who knows how the public will use a term?

    Now I'll admit that the TRP sub-reddit is pretty dominated by Pickup artists, yes. But generally speaking, MGTOW are accepted by the majority over there as sharing the same red-pill insights, but coming to a different strategy about how to act on those insights.
    Who's Chairborne? Office worker & Army Reservist, into electronic music, drummer in a jam band, table-top RPGs, bicycling, X-country skiing, biathlon & marksmanship, TV-free for 15 years.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Mr Wombat's Avatar
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    Re: "Red Piller" or Just another Brick in the Wall

    Well, there's not much point complaining that the Manosphere (PUA/MGTOW/MRA) has misappropriated the term "Red Pill" away from the conspiracy-theory crowd. No-one is going to go "Gosh darn it, you're right!" and stop using the term. And there's not much point complaining about The Red Pill here. "To take the red pill" is a metaphor used widely among many different groups to mean more or less the same thing. No-one - as far as I know - has trademarked the term. You might as well complain that other groups are using the term "Red Alert" incorrectly.

    What Red Pill means in general is realizing that you have been lied to all your life, and realizing that that realization means that you can never go back. We use the term because it fits. So do a lot of other people, with different shades of meaning. Why not insist that the conspiracy crowd stop using "to take the red pill" and instead say "to put on the glasses"?

    My opinion is that trying to improve ones marketability for its own sake and not for the sake of improving health is really sticking with the old false paradigm of consumerism and self-interest. Is it trying to beat the feminists at their own game?
    The PUAs are not trying to improve their marketability for its own sake - they are doing it to get laid. That's their bag. Contains exactly what's on the label. And as I have pointed out elsewhere, there's no point complaining about that, either. They're young. They want to fuck. Is what it is.

    Speaking of which, since when was "self interest" a false paradigm? "Men Going Their Own Way" is all about self-interest. And if "buying stuff because it makes you happy" is a false paradigm - what's the correct one? And why is a paradigm necessarily bad because it is old? And what is a paradigm, anyway?



    You know, z3nb4st4rd, I'm seeing a lot of red flags here.

    1 - The very word "paradigm" is a shibboleth of lefty sociologist types.

    2 - In your intro post you come straight out with the "am I going to be unwelcome here?", which is usually an attempt by a new member to insure themself against being pinged for future bad behaviour. People who intend to contribute positively don't usually insist, in their intro, that the rest of the people here shouldn't kick them off because they would just be being pussies if they did
    Perhaps I am already saying too much for your comfort level. I have been kicked off of other forums and Meetup's for just mentioning Alex Jones.
    Oh really? The fuck you say? Too fucking much for our comfort level? Maybe we just can't take it?

    As far as I see it, this should be treated exactly the way "Are you man enough to handle me?" coming from a woman should be treated.

    3- You bring up all these other forums in a clear attempt to get the guys here to crap on them. This is contra the principles of the forum:
    Appreciate if you wouldn't:
    • Knock the other red-pillers out there such as PUAs, MRAs. A little mockery never hurt anyone, but let's define ourselves by what we are, not by what we're not.


    4 - Your intro post starts with flattery
    It's refreshing to find a community of so many like minded fellas with such wit and editorial style.
    which is always, to me, a red flag.

    5 - Swanning in here and immediately announcing "hey, you guys should all be doing it my way!". Let's say I got on the Alan Jones site and announced
    I have to de-construct this whole Red Pill idea, as it pertains to the 9/11 truth movement. At first glance it was one of the precepts which resonated with me the most. It is a term which is used in the MRA and MGTOW movements What I am trying to get to is this mis-appropriation (IMHO) of the term "Red Pill", at least insofar as Reddit is concerned.
    How long would I last there?

    6 - And this whole post overall is an example of concern-trolling. "Gee, I'm so worried about how you guys appear to be doing it wrong."

    7 - Oh, and I just noticed: the intro post does not include a story.

    I'll tell you what - I'll flag this post (my post), and leave it at that.

  5. #5

    Re: "Red Piller" or Just another Brick in the Wall

    Ahem OK...my intro post is being simultaneously de-constructed and paraphrased to the point of mis-representation. Maybe I'll just start over. Would that be ok with you? I'm only going to "bristle" at one point you tried to make... "lefty socialist type" based on my choice of one overripe pseudo-intellectual construct word. Well excuse me all over the place. I assure you, you are so far wrong with respect to my political leanings that it is not even a joke. This sounds like a fun exercise, I'll play. You used the word "shibboleth" Now that is a new one on me. It evokes images of one who is into table-top role playing games...maybe dungeons and dragons (not that there is anything wrong with that). Maybe you have been reading H.P. Lovecraft again..... under the covers....in a dark room....with a flashlight. Are you into doing pop psychology reads on people too, while deconstructing their posts? That's a real fun game too. I like the way you decided to self-flagellate on your way out before I had a chance to do it.....now if that doesn't sound like a feminine trait I don't know what does. Are you into "cutting" as well?

    I will wave the white flag here in the interest of harmony. I came here to seek some camaraderie not to start a flame war with the self appointed brain trust of the site. Not that I haven't enjoyed this but I am sure others don't have the same masochistic tendencies. Thank you for actually including some constructive criticism in pointing out that I need to include a personal story. I will do that soon and regale you all with my tale of woe. Do you want the parting shot or are you going to use your secret "banhammer" powers on me. I'm over it.
    Last edited by z3nb4st4rd; January 3, 2015 at 10:06 AM.

  6. #6

    Re: "Red Piller" or Just another Brick in the Wall

    How deep does the stick up your ass go ?

    You asked a question, got a concise answer and started bitching about, 'being critiqued'.

    Since you were speaking of feminine traits, allow me to hit you with the hammer of sudden realization, the fact you bitched about getting an answer to a question you asked is typical femininity... -_-

    You some sort of troll mate ?
    ---

  7. #7

    Re: "Red Piller" or Just another Brick in the Wall

    No not a troll and I disrespect those that do. I don't know if you followed the whole thread or not and I don't care. I was responding in kind to the way I was treated by someone who is not a mod but was in my opinion trying to troll bait me. I am used to forums having some hyper vigilant members who are high in status and like to antagonize new members who don't understand the pecking order. He then tried to slam the door on any possible rebuttal by flagging his own post. I am sorry but that is a low move in any forum. I had to call him out on it and then it was over. I have made a bid for peace. Your jumping to his defense is unwarranted and will only further inflame the situation. Good day to you sir.
    Note to self- LURK MOAR N00B J00 R TEH SUXXOORZ


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