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  1. #1
    Super Moderator sirreaper's Avatar
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    r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire, just like all legacy social media.

    This is what I posted, and wouldn't you know, was banned from the sub reddit about 90 seconds later.

    This place may have slowed down some, but, trust me, it's good to have places like this, for when places like r/MGTOW pull shit like this;



    My Take. Censoring posts here via removal with no communication is not going to protect the sub.....

    So I have now had multiple posts removed/moderated etc, within the last 30 days. This seems to be a general theme here on this sub of late sadly.


    The first time this happened I reached out to every moderator (many hours apart after no response was received by each individual mod) of r/MGTOW via DM respectively to see why the post was removed, and wouldn't you know, not a single response from any one of them, at all.


    To me this is pretty telling. Not only is no one willing to have a conversation about banning content, (Very much like our overlords at YouTube, Twitter, FB etc. soon to be referred to as "Legacy Social Media", or LSM for short), but I assume that there is some protectionist nature to removing content, as though there is an idea that removing this "offensive" content is going to prevent removal of the sub from the nasty reddit overlords, here's a hint from an experienced YouTube content creator who has seen many of his fellow MGTOW content creators go down over the last 2 years in the same vein, it wont.


    I am a content creator myself, I get comments all the time, much like here, some of which I have had to remove an obvious troll. The difference is, at a minimum, I am willing to have a conversation about said removal of post.


    I understand this place has helped a lot of men wake up to the reality of the world, and has saved many a mans life. I have helped do the same through forums like goingyourownway.com which is advertised here and has been around for almost 6 years, I helped build that site as a mod from the ground up ( I have been around as a MGTOW since the phrase was coined, yup, im that old to this game). Or the new independentman.org, I have promoted that site in my YT videos as well to help it grow and to help men.


    The difference between those fora and here, there are clear rules, clear communication, and the freedom to express what you want within reason (and succinct communication of said reason). I suggest more men visit and sign up to fora like these so that they can continue to share with like minded men.


    If I get banned from this sub, so be it, it wouldn't surprise me these days, and in that vein, this would pretty much be like all of the other subreddits that many here laugh at for being insta banned for having anything to do with this sub, funny how that works, things really do come full circle dont they?


    I will lurk, and read stories if im not banned, but I can no longer in good conscience post any content here (not that I was a prolific poster anyways), I dont do well with random swords of Damocles hanging over my head, or my posts, or do well with uncommunicative, delete happy mods, who cut off their noses to spite their face.


    Carry on gentlemen, and cheers, thanks for the interactions, it's been fun, I just wanted to reinforce the consideration that you have alternatives for the eventual "Denouement", as I have seen this happen to many a place in MGTOW circles.

    Screen Shot 2020-01-20 at 7.34.33 AM.pngScreen Shot 2020-01-20 at 7.36.08 AM.png
    SR

    BED. MADE. LIE.

    Pussy is and will always be transitory. You'll get it when you can and enjoy life anyway when you can't.

    The harder I work, the luckier I get~ Tom Leykis

    Never married no kids

    Never will marry

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    How I became a MGTOW;

    https://youtu.be/0_W9-kutxqE
    https://youtu.be/OEjgTC2swNk
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Joetech's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    I've discovered the whole world is a dumpster fire! When I broke up with the networks that I watched develop as they became what they are now, I realized that even though I no longer watch their broadcasts, I still can't keep from hearing about shit I can't believe. Censorship by omission becomes obvious to anyone that keeps an eye on what's going on under their nose. Ban me, and I'll just mouth off somewhere else. If I ban you, someone's gonna tell me what you think of it eventually. So what? What does it change?

    I think it's offensive for anyone to tell me (or any other American, for that matter) that in an election year with my President under the gun (a squirt gun, if you ask me) I'm not allowed to make political commentary here, because it's too divisive. Really? I thought we were all over 13 in this room!
    "Don't follow in my footsteps. I stepped in something."

  3. #3
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    No comment....

  4. #4
    Senior Member Boar's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    It is ironic that in the age of 'social' media that people are more isolated and lonely than ever before. We are living in a time of new currency: connection. Those that can control the supply, control the populace, hence the moderation on Reddit and other fora. As with any system that operates upon scarcity, any attempt at sovereignty is a threat to the system: those that minimize their dependency upon the system are the most independent and thus the least controllable.

    I am very grateful for the moderators and this forum to allow men to be men and connect with one another.

  5. #5
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    I dont like censorship, but first I'd like to present some arguments in FAVOR of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirreaper View Post

    Censoring posts here via removal with no communication ...
    ...
    I am a content creator myself, I get comments all the time, much like here, some of which I have had to remove an obvious troll. The difference is, at a minimum, I am willing to have a conversation about said removal of post.
    Any communication has a cost. Some seconds atleast to think what to write, how to write clearly and concisely, and then to actually type it. What if its multiplied by ten times, or hundred times, or thousand ?

    There will come a point where any person or a group of people, will be overwhelmed. At that point they will start cutting down on this communication as a necessary optimization. I have seen this a lot in open source software. In case of a popular software, there are often very small number of people, who have to manage very large number of bug reports, questions, etc.

    As a real example, I once posted a bug-report/question to blender support forum. I simplified it as much as I could, but still the people who replied to me, totally misunderstood my point, and gave me a generic (non) answer. Luckily, in their statement, they said something which gave me some clue, so I dug up the code myself and found the problem (in the last post on that thread). But I dont blame them, I cant blame them. They are incredibly busy with the work. I am not entitled to ANY explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirreaper View Post
    The difference between those fora and here, there are clear rules, clear communication, and the freedom to express what you want within reason (and succinct communication of said reason).
    Both the "clarity" and "reasoning" are very subjective. Its very very hard to come up with ultra-clear rules. Please understand that I am not trying to blame any moderator here, but I am trying to get my point across (and actually supporting their behaviour). I was discussing some rule with mods here on a banned member thread, and I was actually dissuaded from discussing a rule and its interpretation. Why was that ? It was because the same very reason. There is a limit how much a person or group of people are willing to spend time arguing or debating with someone the nitty gritty of a rule. This is not a courtroom (and I was actually told, in that very thread, that they dont do that much in court either lol). The mods arent paid to debate with me all day, there is only so much they can put up with.

    Regarding reasoning, everyone have different standards of what is reasonable and what is not. And they differ A LOT. Many members, including me, find the rules of this forum too rigid. But I also understand the point. Same reasoning, time, energy and even patience are limited resources.

    Regarding my opening statement, I am against censoring honest and truthful content in general, but forums and media run and owned privately by people have the right to censor whatever they want. Its just like a club/bar can throw someone out they dont like, with or without giving any explanation to anyone. What I'll prefer though, is that any listing of rules should contain a very large and bold disclaimer at top, something along the lines of :

    "We can and will throw you out if we think you are more problem than worth, and may or may not give any explanation."

    That will atleast establish honesty and expectations correctly. But then because thats not done commonly, starting out with statement like that will turn off quite a lot of people. So in the end there is no real solution I can think of.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator sirreaper's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    I dont like censorship, but first I'd like to present some arguments in FAVOR of it.



    Any communication has a cost. Some seconds atleast to think what to write, how to write clearly and concisely, and then to actually type it. What if its multiplied by ten times, or hundred times, or thousand ?

    There will come a point where any person or a group of people, will be overwhelmed. At that point they will start cutting down on this communication as a necessary optimization. I have seen this a lot in open source software. In case of a popular software, there are often very small number of people, who have to manage very large number of bug reports, questions, etc.

    As a real example, I once posted a bug-report/question to blender support forum. I simplified it as much as I could, but still the people who replied to me, totally misunderstood my point, and gave me a generic (non) answer. Luckily, in their statement, they said something which gave me some clue, so I dug up the code myself and found the problem (in the last post on that thread). But I dont blame them, I cant blame them. They are incredibly busy with the work. I am not entitled to ANY explanation.



    Both the "clarity" and "reasoning" are very subjective. Its very very hard to come up with ultra-clear rules. Please understand that I am not trying to blame any moderator here, but I am trying to get my point across (and actually supporting their behaviour). I was discussing some rule with mods here on a banned member thread, and I was actually dissuaded from discussing a rule and its interpretation. Why was that ? It was because the same very reason. There is a limit how much a person or group of people are willing to spend time arguing or debating with someone the nitty gritty of a rule. This is not a courtroom (and I was actually told, in that very thread, that they dont do that much in court either lol). The mods arent paid to debate with me all day, there is only so much they can put up with.

    Regarding reasoning, everyone have different standards of what is reasonable and what is not. And they differ A LOT. Many members, including me, find the rules of this forum too rigid. But I also understand the point. Same reasoning, time, energy and even patience are limited resources.

    Regarding my opening statement, I am against censoring honest and truthful content in general, but forums and media run and owned privately by people have the right to censor whatever they want. Its just like a club/bar can throw someone out they dont like, with or without giving any explanation to anyone. What I'll prefer though, is that any listing of rules should contain a very large and bold disclaimer at top, something along the lines of :

    "We can and will throw you out if we think you are more problem than worth, and may or may not give any explanation."

    That will atleast establish honesty and expectations correctly. But then because thats not done commonly, starting out with statement like that will turn off quite a lot of people. So in the end there is no real solution I can think of.
    I can agree with this prima facie, the issue I have is when you have like 8-10 mods with their thumbs up their asses when a message is sent, and its a 1.5 sentence question and your reaction is this....it's time to close up shop IMHO.

    For example here, there has always been communication. We communicate who gets banned, why they got banned, how long they are banned for, often times rationale why they got banned. We give notes on why threads are closed, we have a VERY succinct, and specific set of rules that have worked since day 1, a helluva lot more clear and concise than this;

    r/MGTOW Rules
    1.
    Being disrespectful
    Being disrespectful of the venue.

    2.
    Spam
    Spam posts

    3.
    Trolling
    4.
    Low-Effort

    RULES:

    We will allow no:

    Bullshit
    Feminism
    SJW/LGBT Proselytizing
    White Knighting
    Hug Boxing / Entryism
    Concern Trolling
    Tone Policing
    Virtue Signaling
    Humble Bragging
    Low Effort

    These aren't "Rules" at all. they are suggestive of rules, with no examples of anything whatsoever. Which leaves it open wide to interpretation which leads to a garbage ban happy mod team.

    I have banned like maybe 1 or 2 spammers from this place in the past year, because they were trouble makers or bots etc, but not because thy posted something I didnt like...

    I dunno...maybe im just crazy for expecting standards these days.

    I especially like the "Low Effort" rule...Low Effort, you mean like 10 moderators not answering a 2 sentence question Low effort? Im proud of this forum (Wouldn't have been here since day 1 almost 6....wow 6 YEARS AGO! if it wasnt a quality place), people get answers here, people get information as to what's going on, and if we miss something, its is very rare, unless im missing something if so, let me know either here or in a DM.

    See? Openness and honesty, communication. It aint hard to do.
    SR

    BED. MADE. LIE.

    Pussy is and will always be transitory. You'll get it when you can and enjoy life anyway when you can't.

    The harder I work, the luckier I get~ Tom Leykis

    Never married no kids

    Never will marry

    YouTube@TheVoiceofReason4ya
    Twitter@Manlogic4ya

    How I became a MGTOW;

    https://youtu.be/0_W9-kutxqE
    https://youtu.be/OEjgTC2swNk
    https://youtu.be/BdXKgefITC4

  7. #7
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Quote Originally Posted by sirreaper View Post
    ...
    Im proud of this forum (Wouldn't have been here since day 1 almost 6....wow 6 YEARS AGO! if it wasnt a quality place), people get answers here, people get information as to what's going on, and if we miss something, its is very rare, unless im missing something if so, let me know either here or in a DM.

    See? Openness and honesty, communication. It aint hard to do.
    Yes, I do agree, compared to most places on internet, this is an awesome place. But two things come into my mind, one is comment on the quality of this forum and other is slight criticism.

    Quality of this forum :
    While I do think the rules are quite elaborate, most of the times clearly interpreted, rigidly enforced, and is communicated and explained if some punitive action is taken. But I think it also has a lot to do with our registration mechanism. The problem elements are largely kept out, which actually allows the mods to have time, energy (and sanity ?) to maintain the quality of communication in case of any violations by members. Imagine if we remove the registration mechanism, I dont think it will be possible to maintain that communication after a point.

    And as far as I am aware r/MGTOW has no such requirements, you just register for reddit and then can go ahead and post there. I have seen many times large number of deleted posts there. Regardless of the cause or justification for whatever deleted, it actually took some time and effort for someone to delete that.

    Criticism:
    Well, its not really a criticism, its just what I have felt when talking on this forum (which is why I might be wrong). For regular members here, there is very little to talk about that is not some random joke or news or is not already discussed a billion times in the manosphere all over the internet. And the moment you step out of that zone, that is, anytime the topic doesnt belong to that above set, I often find myself very difficult to proceed without stepping into the "gray zone" of the rules. Again this is only my experience, and I am strictly talking about regular members talking to each other, not about some regular talking to a new member or non members. Also, the major reason I dont like to call it a criticism, because I dont know any solution to this. The rules make sense, and to solve this problem, the rules must be loosened and that has potential to cause way more harm than good.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  8. #8
    Senior Member MGTOWFOREVER's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Joetech View Post
    I've discovered the whole world is a dumpster fire! When I broke up with the networks that I watched develop as they became what they are now, I realized that even though I no longer watch their broadcasts, I still can't keep from hearing about shit I can't believe. Censorship by omission becomes obvious to anyone that keeps an eye on what's going on under their nose. Ban me, and I'll just mouth off somewhere else. If I ban you, someone's gonna tell me what you think of it eventually. So what? What does it change?

    I think it's offensive for anyone to tell me (or any other American, for that matter) that in an election year with my President under the gun (a squirt gun, if you ask me) I'm not allowed to make political commentary here, because it's too divisive. Really? I thought we were all over 13 in this room!
    There are no rights anymore. The country is a fucking circus. It's all about feelings anymore. Everyone is offended by everything.

    YOU the AMERICAN people want to Impeach your President on second and third hand HEAR SAY testimony. So YOU can elect a man on VIDEO TAPE extorting 1 BILLION DOLLARS. Both with the leader of the UKRAINE AND RUSSIA? Cut me a fucking break but their God named BareBack Barry Obama committed collusion on video, spied on Americans, pushed his bullshit healthcare law through*, the whole Benghazi mess, etc. Unfuckingbelievable.

    *Remember as Nancy Pelosi said "We don't know whats in it until we pass it". But yet that bitter old tampon wants to impeach Trump on nothing. Wow....just....wow....

    Really? I thought we were all over 13 in this room!
    That's another reason. The kids can say , do , and have anything they want. It's okay if they tell you to go fuck yourself. But if you tell them to shut the fuck up or disagree with them then everyone will jump down your throat. "Oh they are just a child! How dare you! They dont know what their saying". I say "Bullshit. I am sure you curse enough in front of the brat, enough curse words on the videos & music you let them have, and if they don't know right or wrong by now then they are obviously retarded".

    I post on r/MGTOW once in awhile. But it's like wrestling. You know how a once very very popular returns for one night and the place goes crazy? Thats me. I post on something on r/MGTOW and just watch the post get upvoted a ton. It's nothing meaningful though. The fact they let women post "Oh thats not true! NAWALT" and soyboy simps that couldn't see or hear a train coming at them even if it was whistling and chugging along 2 miles before it was near them and "happily married men" makes me not post there. I know one of the mods is married but in my opinion that defeats the whole going YOUR OWN way purpose. But thats just my opinion.

  9. #9
    Senior Member MGTOWFOREVER's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Boar View Post
    It is ironic that in the age of 'social' media that people are more isolated and lonely than ever before. We are living in a time of new currency: connection. Those that can control the supply, control the populace, hence the moderation on Reddit and other fora. As with any system that operates upon scarcity, any attempt at sovereignty is a threat to the system: those that minimize their dependency upon the system are the most independent and thus the least controllable.

    I am very grateful for the moderators and this forum to allow men to be men and connect with one another.
    Social media has turned people into zombies. They dont know how to interact with other people. If they are having a conversation with someone and that someone says something they dont like then they pull out their phone & Google it. Whatever first pops up is what they based their entire opinion on. They dont research or verify anything.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Honestly I have found that reddit has been lurching toward more and more censorship as time goes on when it comes to various topics which were once discussed freely. Meanwhile pornography and soft porn has basically taken over reddit and youtube. Instead of words and ideas they are being replaced with sexual imagery with an emphasis on women.

    I have a theory that when social media puts an emphasis on sexual imagery and not about discussion that it has reached its peak and it is downhill from there. This is because it is tapping into a primitive mindset which could be argued is almost Pavlovian in nature.

    To me social media is about generating discussion that should be thought provoking or inspiring. Youtube and reddit censorship shows that style over substance is what is valued now.

  11. #11
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Nomad View Post
    Honestly I have found that reddit has been lurching toward more and more censorship as time goes on when it comes to various topics which were once discussed freely. Meanwhile pornography and soft porn has basically taken over reddit and youtube. Instead of words and ideas they are being replaced with sexual imagery with an emphasis on women.

    I have a theory that when social media puts an emphasis on sexual imagery and not about discussion that it has reached its peak and it is downhill from there. This is because it is tapping into a primitive mindset which could be argued is almost Pavlovian in nature.

    To me social media is about generating discussion that should be thought provoking or inspiring. Youtube and reddit censorship shows that style over substance is what is valued now.
    There is another side to this IMHO. There are lot of people, both on internet and in real life, who are apparently ready to trade in words and ideas, but after few minutes will try to back off, because they will start realizing that the discussion is getting into a rabbit hole, or worse, several rabbit holes. Many discussions, especially those involving politics and people are very very nuanced and there is a LOT of detail. Nothing really happens in isolation, one thing affects another. Sometimes people will pretend they believe in some ideology and after some digging they will find out that they actually support and believe something completely opposite. Then there are people who will feel offended when they are outclassed, simply because they are not used to being outclassed. They may not show it, but they will slowly start to go off the rails. And lastly, there are people, who will try to enter a discussion, without reading/listening to prior points made and will simply repeat it, maybe with different wording. Discussions/debates like that often ends up being pointless, because no conclusion is reached, nothing to be derived or learnt, other than wasted time.

    I'll prefer straight up and simple meme with sexual imagery instead of that. Most of the times its very honest. A sexual image is basically saying "you want tits, here are tits". Thats helluva lot honest than a long-winded fake discussion, circling around people's egos and never reaching any conclusion.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  12. #12
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Our freedom of speech should not end at someone else's unwillingness to be offended.

    I've been a moderator twice, never did I erase a word going by ^that^ guideline.

    To add insult to injury for all the little cupcakes, snowflakes, and SJW's, IT'S MY RIGHT to be prejudice, homophobic, racist, sexist, and any other acronym your sweaty little twats want to deny me! NOT THAT I AM, but that it's MY RIGHT!

    Where the line should be drawn is in taking any ACTION against others based in bigotry, hatred, and personal preference.

    NO ONE HAS A RIGHT to reshape me based on their morals and desires! Their ONLY RIGHT is to disassociate, not wage SJWars on my preferences as a human being!

    With this philosophy the KKK can be at ease around the Black Panthers and visa versa, in other words, the lams can lay with lions and neither has to please or be eaten by the other.

    Hate speech laws are a form of oppression, sometimes, not all the time, the haters are 100% justified in their hatred, to squelch them is a form of tyranny by overreach in itself.

  13. #13
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Free speech, what’s that?

    Make a criticism or observation about Israel and you’re anti-semite;
    Make a criticism or observation about race and you’re a racist (unless it’s about white men)
    Make a criticism or observation about gender or sexuality and you’re a sexist (unless it’s about straight men)

    All free speech is now considered evil, except…

    Say shit like all men should be castrated and you’re applauded
    Say shit like all men are rapists and you’re applauded
    Say shit like political views I don’t like should be prevented and you’re applauded

    I have no respect left for any of it. I simply watch on, sometimes with concern but oftentimes with bemusement.

    Fuck politics, fuck society, FUCK THE LOT OF IT!

    As for other websites, while I’m interested in knowing what’s happening I don’t really care about them. I come here to read the views of, and interact with likeminded people. Not to agree with you on everything and anything, but because we haven’t given up on thinking for ourselves. THAT I can respect.
    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    All we can do is keep ourselves from all those who don't deserve it. Ė Dave Matthes

  14. #14
    Senior Member Knarley Bob's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Gentelmen, I believe that the SHTF is coming. I would advise spending time on the re-loading press......
    As soon as she says "I do", she don't
    MOLON LABE......."Come take them"

  15. #15
    Senior Member Manfred's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Free speech, whatís that?

    Make a criticism or observation about Israel and youíre anti-semite;
    Make a criticism or observation about race and youíre a racist (unless itís about white men)
    Make a criticism or observation about gender or sexuality and youíre a sexist (unless itís about straight men)

    All free speech is now considered evil, exceptÖ

    Say shit like all men should be castrated and youíre applauded
    Say shit like all men are rapists and youíre applauded
    Say shit like political views I donít like should be prevented and youíre applauded

    I have no respect left for any of it. I simply watch on, sometimes with concern but oftentimes with bemusement.

    Fuck politics, fuck society, FUCK THE LOT OF IT!

    As for other websites, while Iím interested in knowing whatís happening I donít really care about them. I come here to read the views of, and interact with likeminded people. Not to agree with you on everything and anything, but because we havenít given up on thinking for ourselves. THAT I can respect.
    I quite agree with this. If we introduce some Zen/Taoism concepts, then we could say that we have shift away from the path (Tao) of non-dualism into extreme dualism.
    It is no longer two opposites and something in the middle, it is the extreme opposites. Also the egoic nature of desire and fear is full-fledged and not subdued. It is clearly the path of devolution.
    A very appropriate quote would be from Tao:

    A man of highest virtue
    Will not display it as his own;
    His virtue then is real.
    Low virtue makes one miss no chance
    To show his virtue off;
    His virtue then is nought.
    High virtue is at rest;
    It knows no need to act.
    Low virtue is a busyness
    Pretending to accomplishment.
    Compassion at its best
    Consists in honest deeds;
    Morality at best
    Is something done, aforethought;
    High etiquette, when acted out
    Without response from others,
    Constrains a man to bare his arms
    And make them do their duty!

    Truly, once the Way is lost,
    There comes then virtue;
    Virtue lost, comes then compassion;
    After that morality;
    And when that's lost, there's etiquette,
    The husk of all good faith,
    The rising point of anarchy.



    Tao Te Ching - The Way of Life - The Wisdom of Ancient China {5/9}

  16. #16
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred View Post
    ...non-dualism into extreme dualism.

    It is no longer two opposites and something in the middle, it is the extreme opposites.
    I'd say the middle way is unstable when people of different cultures/mindsets are mixed together. The middle is often very wide, and people on the edges of that region are slightly intolerant (but not extreme.. not yet). And then whenever the conflict arises, the more intolerant you are, the more extreme your reaction will be, and often more effective in short term. A very common example is a blue pill household with a nagging harpy of a wife. The man comes home tired, he has no energy left to react, but the wife is intolerant and angry, so in a conflict, she will let loose a verbal storm and the man will tend to simply agree.

    But that can go on for only so long, before the other side of the middle region starts to react. Their reaction will be to change their position to something which is more extreme than their opponents, otherwise they have no chance of winning any conflict. And now they will start winning, because they will be much more aggressive. Then the first side responds again by going even furthur extreme, so on and so forth, and eventually you will get two super extremes.

    Feminism, is very very intolerant. The man is always guilty, is not allowed to speak, is not allowed to have self-interest feelings, etc etc. And the people supporting it are extreme. The extremism has only increased over the decades. Our reaction ? : MGTOW. No matter how you look at it, MGTOW is a very very extreme position. We severe our links with most of society, and maintain just enough for the required appearances. We are very upfront with our position (if we are talking honestly), that we dont care about the stability or survival of civilization. To an outsider and uninitiated, it doesnt look very far from extreme anarchy.

    That is why I believe, people of incompatible cultures, should just live separately. Otherwise, conflicts will happen, and they will eventually spiral out of control because of never ending retaliation cycles.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    There is another side to this IMHO. There are lot of people, both on internet and in real life, who are apparently ready to trade in words and ideas, but after few minutes will try to back off, because they will start realizing that the discussion is getting into a rabbit hole, or worse, several rabbit holes. Many discussions, especially those involving politics and people are very very nuanced and there is a LOT of detail. Nothing really happens in isolation, one thing affects another. Sometimes people will pretend they believe in some ideology and after some digging they will find out that they actually support and believe something completely opposite. Then there are people who will feel offended when they are outclassed, simply because they are not used to being outclassed. They may not show it, but they will slowly start to go off the rails. And lastly, there are people, who will try to enter a discussion, without reading/listening to prior points made and will simply repeat it, maybe with different wording. Discussions/debates like that often ends up being pointless, because no conclusion is reached, nothing to be derived or learnt, other than wasted time.

    I'll prefer straight up and simple meme with sexual imagery instead of that. Most of the times its very honest. A sexual image is basically saying "you want tits, here are tits". Thats helluva lot honest than a long-winded fake discussion, circling around people's egos and never reaching any conclusion.
    To me personally vapid discussion trumps vapid imagery because there is a chance a discussion still may be generated from it. However, I do like memes because it is a concise way to make a point regarding politics, philosophy, etc.

    But to me to see places of discussion and ideas being turned into soft porn can be honesty. It is the honesty that gynocracy has to destroy everything that doesn't serve at the alter of pussy. I find that disappointing to be honest.

    Yeah sex sells but is that really necessary to keep the lights on just for discussion? I don't think so that it is necessary. Which is why it is a conscious choice to silence male content creators on youtube that have ideas while female content creators can continue to do their bikini try on hauls.

  18. #18
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Nomad View Post
    To me personally vapid discussion trumps vapid imagery because there is a chance a discussion still may be generated from it. However, I do like memes because it is a concise way to make a point regarding politics, philosophy, etc.

    But to me to see places of discussion and ideas being turned into soft porn can be honesty. It is the honesty that gynocracy has to destroy everything that doesn't serve at the alter of pussy. I find that disappointing to be honest.

    Yeah sex sells but is that really necessary to keep the lights on just for discussion? I don't think so that it is necessary. Which is why it is a conscious choice to silence male content creators on youtube that have ideas while female content creators can continue to do their bikini try on hauls.
    Fully agree, vapid discussion is way better than a pornhub with different wrapper. The kind of discussion which I'll put lower than sexual imagery is the one which reduces to name calling, hurling insults and pointless chest thumping, which is what you can get on internet pretty easily, especially at places like reddit or youtube comments, where anyone can jump in and post, and is also often results when a pointless discussion survives too long without moderators jumping in and start shooting warnings.
    Last edited by rkspsm; January 22, 2020 at 4:06 PM.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Insidious_Sid's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Free speech, what’s that?

    Make a criticism or observation about Israel and you’re anti-semite;
    Make a criticism or observation about race and you’re a racist (unless it’s about white men)
    Make a criticism or observation about gender or sexuality and you’re a sexist (unless it’s about straight men)

    All free speech is now considered evil, except…

    Say shit like all men should be castrated and you’re applauded
    Say shit like all men are rapists and you’re applauded
    Say shit like political views I don’t like should be prevented and you’re applauded

    I have no respect left for any of it. I simply watch on, sometimes with concern but oftentimes with bemusement.

    Fuck politics, fuck society, FUCK THE LOT OF IT!

    As for other websites, while I’m interested in knowing what’s happening I don’t really care about them. I come here to read the views of, and interact with likeminded people. Not to agree with you on everything and anything, but because we haven’t given up on thinking for ourselves. THAT I can respect.
    The left has created "rules of engagement" for social issues along the following.

    For "Oppressors" - everything you say is false. Sources please. Those source are no good. They're not peer reviewed (by our peers). You come from a position of privilege, so just you speaking on this issue is contemptuous and triggering. You have the right to 'free speech" (we're forced to give you a platform) but don't expect "speech without consequence" (banning, shadow banning, doxxing, defamation, de-platforming, threats of violence, actual violence). Of course, we can use any and all tactics to silence and shame and stop you, but if you were to attempt to even use a watered down version of same against US, there will be shrieking, fits and people convulsing and writhing on the ground. Your words are weapons, and you make us unsafe.

    For "Us" - the oppressed. Everything we say is true, just, founded in fact and science, and the indisputable truth. Just questioning our truth is an act of aggression and violence - an attempt to not just silence us, but take away our very person-hood and make our campus/space/area *literally* unsafe. Your words can kill us - dead, in our tracks because we are oppressed victims - we are vulnerable and marginalized in every way possible. We "have no voice" despite having every platform imaginable at our disposal, and cleansed of any threat of dissenting opinion or even those who dare question our "truths". We are good, fair, honest, decent oppressed, abused and marginalized people - we never lie, cherry pick, twist facts, or misrepresent anything - why would we? We're an absolute moral authority, so just by disagreeing with us or challenging our tenets you have immediately proven you are a malevolent force - an oppressor, from a privileged class or classes. We have the right to change the rules, move the goalposts, and use both sides of the same argument(s) when a particular side suits us at that particular moment. No advantages and rules we create for ourselves will ever compensate for the disparity between our oppression and your privilege. We will always be victims of your tyranny, and you will always deserve whatever abuse, lies, and even violence we throw your way. We cannot hurt you, the oppressor, no matter what we do. You can only hurt us with EVERYTHING you do.

    How can you even begin to engage with such a paradoxical 'victim superpower' such as this? You can't.
    - Feminism is Cancer.
    - Where have all the good men gone? Away. Far far away... from you.
    - NAWALT? Maybe, but EWALT means Russian Roulette is a much safer bet...

  20. #20
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: r/MGTOW is a dumpster fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Insidious_Sid View Post
    ....can only hurt us with EVERYTHING you do.
    Including things like breathing, being happy, or by just being alive in general !!!
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.


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