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  1. #1
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    An important message from Jordan Peterson

    Here is a short clip from the Dave Rubin show. JP talks about MGTOW. Please suppress the gut reaction to his dismissals and listen to the very last part. It's important.

    He has had guys in his clinical practice that were so decimated by the court system that he was unable to help them.

    Think about how profound a statement that is.

    For those of you who don't know, JP is married to his high school sweet heart. What ever you may think of him, he was then, and still is 3 points ahead of his wife on SMV. He doesn't seem to understand this is why his marriage has been successful. He doesn't see his bias, but you should. Even though he is relatively dismissive of MGTOW, even in this short clip, he basically owns up to the fact that everything we warn about is true. He sees MGTOW being destructive to young men only because in his world view, TRADCON relationships still exist. He doesn't see his own blind spot.

    He also doesn't seem to understand that many MGTOW are dedicated to self improvement without having to be pussy beggers to stay motivated. He has no concept of how much of a higher calling MGTOW can be. He has confused the concepts of Incel and MGTOW.

    If you are a young man, don't be afraid to listen to JP with regard to self improvement. If his advice helps, use it. Just be aware of this huge blind spot he has. Listen to his own words about how F'd you can get by the system. Understand that he has no concept of how bad it is because of his own bias.

    Never get married.
    Never co-habitat
    Never get her pregnant


  2. #2
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    "You should go out and find someone". Been there, found that and all the regrets that follow.

    "You should change". Change to what? Emotional tampon? Fetch all?

    "Looking for a reason why women are terrible" Really? Who has to look? Aren't the reasons self evident?

    "Some females will do that some of the time" (ruin men). Every female has been cruel to at least one man, and all men to varying degrees, the blood is on all their hands collectively, none are innocent, most are guilty.

    "I was unable to help them". Yea we know, no problem, we can help them to the point of full restoration and a permanent fix that makes life much more worth living.

    "looking for an easy out". Since when is opting out of danger and potential enslavement to be considered the low road?

    This guy is another TRADCON that's blind as a bat! Him or someone close to him will be roasted by a woman then silently disappear from that group and hopefully find their way here, where shit broke fan!

  3. #3
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    I don't like his assumption that avoiding the marriage/child-spawning trap is somehow wrong or unfulfilling or needs professional intervention. People's behavior must remain dynamic -- responsive and reactive to their current surroundings -- if for no other reason than to maintain survival, let alone to have a reasonably satisfying life. The way women are today, modeling one's behavior according to traditional relationship principles is likely to yield, at minimum, discomfort, and at most, outright misery. One cannot argue against the facts of divorce rates and divorce outcomes. Facts stand tall and are made of iron. They laugh at the opinions of "professionals."

  4. #4
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    With all due respect to you, Jordan Peterson is an undercover paid professional troll. As mgtow grows and becomes the only dignified option for a man, we will see more and more 'mutual understanding' between feminist, tradcons, nationalists and religious folk.

    The powers that be are already softening us up for traditionalism. Look at the major magazines 'the return of the traditional woman' is now a strong theme.

    Even though he is relatively dismissive of MGTOW, even in this short clip, he basically owns up to the fact that everything we warn about is true. He sees MGTOW being destructive to young men only because in his world view, TRADCON relationships still exist. He doesn't see his own blind spot.
    He 110% knows EXACTLY what he is talking about. And with all due respect, as a MGTOW, I feel you should know better. JP and his ilk are diversions set up in this gender war.

    It is very simple manipulation process:
    1) Agree that men are oppressed (wow how fucking insightful - this was the case for millennia)
    2)Sympathise ('I understand - it is hard, things are tough for men')
    3)Offer a tradcon solution (here the manipulation is clear and comes in many forms 'clinical psychology' which dismisses the irrational side of humans, or traditionalism, or 'self-improvement' aka charlatanism.)

    There are plenty of ways to manipulate a man.

    The one thing that a manipulative bastard like JP, or any other anti-MGTOW individuals never mentions:

    The rule which is unspoken and must be suppressed:

    'A man must toil, and a woman must benefit from his efforts'.

    This is the rule in my home of Saudi Arabia, in merry old England, in the states, in Mongolia, in Vanuatu Islands and everywhere else in the world and has been since the beginning of human existence.

    You will never get this admission from anyone who has social, political or capital influence. Because the system by itself is heavily reliant on men toiling and toiling and chasing and chasing until they are broke and no longer able to even support themselves.

    If ALL men suddenly stopped chasing women and understood this unspoken rule the economies of the world would tank overnight.

    And then who is going to be purchasing Jordan Peterson's books?

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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    Jordan Peterson is an undercover paid professional troll.

    He 110% knows EXACTLY what he is talking about.
    Possibly, but I'm unconvinced. I tend to agree with pbisque that his tradcon beliefs are so engrained in him he just cannot shake them no matter the evidence staring him straight in the face.

    If you watch him in interviews like the ones with Dave Rubin you can see in his mannerisms the mental gymnastics he has to do to make his case and I think that his 'attempts to help' are as much about convincing himself that he is right as convincing others - if he can convince others or even just get positive feedback, then that validates his own views.

    When you truly know your path your confidence shows clearly, this is not the case with this guy. He is still trying to figure shit out while simultaneously attempting to sound like he knows what he is talking about. The poor lad is confused and it shows.

    As for his popularity, well there's nothing a tradcon likes more than to hear someone of note re-enforcing their own world view. They're afraid to make the leap of leaving the plantation because the forces that be keep reinforcing the notion that their way is the right way and the only honourable way. Deviate and you will be lost in the wilderness.

    Even if that were true, to which the people here can attest is just pure bollocks, I'd rather be lost in the wilderness than be a slave.
    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    All we can do is keep ourselves from all those who don't deserve it. – Dave Matthes

  6. #6
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    Opaque is right, this guy is way off base, any ground we gain in legitimacy he back peddles but still insists, as far as religion is concerned, the biblical readings I have read shows me women have a long history of untrustworthy behavior going back to day-1! In fact, it shows us to put women aside, and to those that don't, must rule over them and they must "obey". So as far as the hypocritical side of religion is concerned, I'm not interested, but from a pragmatic point of view I find strong MGTOW advice and proper social order where men are made to tame and rule over our natural surroundings. Religion and the bible are one of feminism's strongest menaces and they're alpha antagonistic toward one another. I don't do religion emotionally, I do it pragmatically. So yea, allot of religious people are blue pill doing the estrogen side through emotions rather than objective thinking and the well honed skill of seeing the forest through the trees. Wisdom is not granted nor is it free, it's sought after with due diligence and sacrifice for the purpose of being able to see. Stepping back and gaining a better vantage point is critical in life's battles and the ability to adapt and overcome any circumstance.

    MGTOW and it's core philosophy places a man in control of his emotions through mastering intellect over emotion the way we were designed to be, feminism has empowered women with the ability to decimate that order placing the man in an environment where he must endure emotion over intellect as she is granted rights to rule over him by law, order, and "unlawful decree" (when considering biblical social order to the toilet we have today). The might of gynocentric unity with endless social transformation has us opting out numbering in the multiple millions upon millions. It's true and the West's best kept secret, real men are becoming a rare and endangered species hunted to extinction by law, order, and decree. Gynocentric order is chaotic and the catalyst that mutilated chivalry, gallantry, giving us this social order that dictates EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF! LADIES INCLUDED!

  7. #7
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Possibly, but I'm unconvinced. I tend to agree with pbisque that his tradcon beliefs are so engrained in him he just cannot shake them no matter the evidence staring him straight in the face.

    If you watch him in interviews like the ones with Dave Rubin you can see in his mannerisms the mental gymnastics he has to do to make his case and I think that his 'attempts to help' are as much about convincing himself that he is right as convincing others - if he can convince others or even just get positive feedback, then that validates his own views.

    When you truly know your path your confidence shows clearly, this is not the case with this guy. He is still trying to figure shit out while simultaneously attempting to sound like he knows what he is talking about. The poor lad is confused and it shows.

    As for his popularity, well there's nothing a tradcon likes more than to hear someone of note re-enforcing their own world view. They're afraid to make the leap of leaving the plantation because the forces that be keep reinforcing the notion that their way is the right way and the only honourable way. Deviate and you will be lost in the wilderness.

    Even if that were true, to which the people here can attest is just pure bollocks, I'd rather be lost in the wilderness than be a slave.
    Thanks for getting what I'm saying. I can't remember who said it, but the saying is, "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence."

    That being said, it is besides the point. Almost everything I write, I intend for the new viewers, the guys who have been lurking without yet speaking. I never write a thing on this forum with the "already MGTOW" in mind. No offense to you guys, but it doesn't even matter if JP is a paid shill or a guy who simply believes his own press.

    What is important to the guys who are still trying to sort all of this out is, JP has reached an invalid conclusion. If you are a guy who has found value in either of his books, then great. Apply that to the "improve yourself" side of being MGTOW. Do not follow him to the end though. He is in error.

    His viewpoint, be it fake or real, is that women represent nature and chaos. In his world view, their job is to weed out the weak men and cause the rest to strive for improvement. True enough, if you are firing on all cylinders, you will attracted women like crazy. Minimally, they are at least a gauge that measures you against other men.

    HERE IS THE IMPORT PART. MGTOW does not improve your performance in that paradigm. MGTOW transcends this paradigm.

    It doesn't matter if he is a paid troll or a sincere believer. The point of my OP is that he is wrong and to show the new reader he even admits it. He owns up to failing people that have come to him for help. His paradigm is incomplete.

    As mgtower rightly points out, the bible is full of stories showing how untrustworthy women can be. Even in his own paradigm, the answer would be to steel yourself against them, not to do their bidding. In effect, JP gets this wrong on two levels.

    An old Christian saying is "to be in this world, but not of this world". JP can help you be in this world. MGTOW helps you be "not of this world".

  8. #8
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    Thanks for getting what I'm saying. I can't remember who said it, but the saying is, "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence."

    That being said, it is besides the point. Almost everything I write, I intend for the new viewers, the guys who have been lurking without yet speaking. I never write a thing on this forum with the "already MGTOW" in mind. No offense to you guys, but it doesn't even matter if JP is a paid shill or a guy who simply believes his own press.

    What is important to the guys who are still trying to sort all of this out is, JP has reached an invalid conclusion. If you are a guy who has found value in either of his books, then great. Apply that to the "improve yourself" side of being MGTOW. Do not follow him to the end though. He is in error.

    His viewpoint, be it fake or real, is that women represent nature and chaos. In his world view, their job is to weed out the weak men and cause the rest to strive for improvement. True enough, if you are firing on all cylinders, you will attracted women like crazy. Minimally, they are at least a gauge that measures you against other men.

    HERE IS THE IMPORT PART. MGTOW does not improve your performance in that paradigm. MGTOW transcends this paradigm.

    It doesn't matter if he is a paid troll or a sincere believer. The point of my OP is that he is wrong and to show the new reader he even admits it. He owns up to failing people that have come to him for help. His paradigm is incomplete.

    As mgtower rightly points out, the bible is full of stories showing how untrustworthy women can be. Even in his own paradigm, the answer would be to steel yourself against them, not to do their bidding. In effect, JP gets this wrong on two levels.

    An old Christian saying is "to be in this world, but not of this world". JP can help you be in this world. MGTOW helps you be "not of this world".
    Not of this world! BRAVO! Nothing of this world could have prepared me for the tenacious fight for my own god given liberty and right to be a man! Freedom from tyranny has and will always be my motto! Freedom is born of tyranny, sometimes we have to go through hell to find our own slice of heaven! That little island of sanctuary deep in my soul is not for sale nor up for debate! There's no going back and never was, it would be like a dog returning to lick up his puke!

    I removed myself from participation in a game of life where cheating and stealing are viewed as part of the rules.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    His viewpoint, be it fake or real, is that women represent nature and chaos. In his world view, their job is to weed out the weak men and cause the rest to strive for improvement. True enough, if you are firing on all cylinders, you will attracted women like crazy. Minimally, they are at least a gauge that measures you against other men.
    All this is conjecture.
    Women, in my experience are highly intelligent, shrewd, cold, calculative and rational.
    Men, are emotional, romantic, passionate, idealistic and irrational.

    To offer a simplistic argument like that is very weak and has no basis in the real ''everyday'' world.

    The self improvement you mention about JP is simply uninsightful garbage like ''tidy your room''. That does not show intelligence, in fact if men are impressed by that, then that shows how much they lack intelligence.

    We have a man, who, out of nowhere, against all odds, refuses to call a transgender by their preferred pronoun, not only gets to keep his place in academia, but also thrives and writes several uninsightful snake oil books, and is praised and lavished for it. He even has support from Feminists like Camille Paglia and Janice Fiamengo.

    Well, what does this tell you?

    You are being softened up for traditionalism. Just like before an economic crash, the powers that be start slowly promoting 'sustainability' and 'frugality'.

    All a form of manipulation, but you are happy if you close your ears and shut your eyes.

    It doesn't matter if he is a paid troll or a sincere believer.
    Of course it matters, he is a part of the gynocentric system. You do not judge people simply by what they say and what they do, but also what they think. Because what they really think, they may hide and camouflage with what they say and do.

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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by Opaque View Post
    All this is conjecture.
    Women, in my experience are highly intelligent, shrewd, cold, calculative and rational.
    Men, are emotional, romantic, passionate, idealistic and irrational.

    To offer a simplistic argument like that is very weak and has no basis in the real ''everyday'' world.

    The self improvement you mention about JP is simply uninsightful garbage like ''tidy your room''. That does not show intelligence, in fact if men are impressed by that, then that shows how much they lack intelligence.

    We have a man, who, out of nowhere, against all odds, refuses to call a transgender by their preferred pronoun, not only gets to keep his place in academia, but also thrives and writes several uninsightful snake oil books, and is praised and lavished for it. He even has support from Feminists like Camille Paglia and Janice Fiamengo.

    Well, what does this tell you?

    You are being softened up for traditionalism. Just like before an economic crash, the powers that be start slowly promoting 'sustainability' and 'frugality'.

    All a form of manipulation, but you are happy if you close your ears and shut your eyes.



    Of course it matters, he is a part of the gynocentric system. You do not judge people simply by what they say and what they do, but also what they think. Because what they really think, they may hide and camouflage with what they say and do.
    Well again, I'm not writing for the men that are already MGTOW. I'm writing for the lurker who is still trying to figure this out. Just look at the numbers. JP has a big audience. You don't reach them by telling them that they and their profit are stupid. You reach them by acknowledging where he is right, and then pointing out the remaining flaws in his world view.

    His core message is correct. Nobody is responsible for you and your life but you. That used to be common sense, but all of that has been indoctrinated out of many of today's youth. If he can bring them back to a sense of personal responsibility than so much the better. That being said, his error is in his gynocenterism. Once again, my argument is for those who see the truth that he speaks. My goal is to persuade them not to take the bait hook line and sinker.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    That being said, his error is in his gynocenterism.
    I understand what you are trying to do in general. However, I really do not like this insistence that JP is in error.
    He is wilfully hiding the truth and repackaging it in a 'diet' version, which is pernicious because it gives men hope and infects with the beliefs they one day can do it.

    One day, if I make enough money, if I lose enough weight, if I 'self-improve' enough.
    It doesn't work and never has. Women aren't interested in the bottom 95% + of men, and never will be.

  12. #12
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence."
    That is probably the morally correct choice, but I believe is tactically wrong. From my understanding, MGTOW is a war, a social/culture war fought on PERSONAL level. You win this war by winning it in your own life, and winning it grants you many many benefits. And tradcons are our enemies in that war. Yes some of them are not smart enough to understand things, or are just too inexperienced, or both, but that doesnt mean we let the guard down.

    So I am with Opaque here, I believe its much safer to assume this guy is an extremely intelligent enemy who knows how to act so perfectly that its indistinguishable from someone who genuinely doesnt understand mgtow. Thats a zero tolerance policy, and I generally favor it. And in this case, there is no harm being done to anyone, besides a small reduction in number of people NOT listening to JP.

    That being said, I do agree that to someone who is so blue pilled that even slight purple looks crimson red to them, then in case listening to anything which is not crazy leftist propaganda, is good, including JP.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  13. #13
    Senior Member John Deer's Avatar
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    Any publicity is good publicity. The more JP talks about MGTOW the more it will grow.

  14. #14

    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by John Deer View Post
    Any publicity is good publicity. The more JP talks about MGTOW the more it will grow.
    I find JP all over the place on the topic,....that said he dose get some form of the topic out in the public and there it can be a help to some men.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Opaque's Avatar
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    I believe its much safer to assume this guy is an extremely intelligent enemy who knows how to act so perfectly that its indistinguishable from someone who genuinely doesnt understand mgtow. Thats a zero tolerance policy, and I generally favor it.
    Absolutely nailed it.
    This quote of 'never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence' is completely false. 100% pure rubbish.
    It is useful in manipulating people and softening them up for a diluted way of thinking.

    It leads to compromising a little here and a little there, and next thing you MGTOW is no longer MGTOW.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Zoidberg's Avatar
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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    What is important to the guys who are still trying to sort all of this out is, JP has reached an invalid conclusion. If you are a guy who has found value in either of his books, then great. Apply that to the "improve yourself" side of being MGTOW. Do not follow him to the end though. He is in error.
    To put it generally: Don’t follow anybody. Take what works for you, leave the rest.

  17. #17

    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    Tradcon guys like Jordan Peterson and Stefan Molyneux who want other guys to get married, but don't advocate for ANY societal change whatsoever to make things more fair for men are a huge part of the problem. They think just because they are married, and their post-wall wives can't find a better guy to monkey-branch to, every guy should be able to do the same. The problem is if you take away those guys' money, status, and fame, their wives would INSTANTLY be cheating and/or looking for a replacement.

    If you read the comments on their videos, though, you'll find they're not convincing most guys. Most guys will consistently point to the elephant in the room: what about divorce/family court? What about false rape/abuse/harassment accusations? What about rampant promiscuity and the lack of any kind of standards or accountability for females whatsoever? Is this what we're supposed to spend our whole lives working for, to be worthy of these useless women that are worth less than dirt, who can ruin our entire lives on a fucking whim, just because?

    They use the exact same shaming tactics as everyone else, basically telling us to man up, and we have no choice but to accept the ridiculous terms offered to us by women and society. But we do have a choice. We can go our own way. If you accept that men have no value, you'd reach the same conclusion they do, but then you'd be bartering from a position of weakness which virtually guarantees your failure. But if you realize that men hold ALL the value, and therefore, we hold all the power, and if men hold fast to this belief...then women and society will have NO CHOICE but to finally consider our demands and take us seriously.

    Without men, both women and society fall. Men on the other hand can be free agents, and do just fine. MGTOW is living proof of that. They can continue this ridiculous male-shaming rhetoric, demanding that we sacrifice ourselves to the very machine that hates and persecutes us, but it will fall on deaf ears. The weak and stupid men may buy it, but they will end up destroyed. MEN will be the ones to shape the future. Either they will give us back some influence and control over the society WE BUILT, or we will say fuck it and let the whole thing burn, then we will rebuild it from the ashes without ANY consideration for them whatsoever.

    Either way, WE WILL WIN.

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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    The reason I don't think JP is a covert agent of any sort is very simple. They gynocracy has already won. MGTOW simply isn't a threat to it. We are a tiny drop in an ocean of cucks. MGTOW is saving individual men, one by one.

    It's much easier for me to believe that JP is a guy who has figured some stuff out, but his life experience keeps him anchored to a very large part of the blue pill world. He honestly "knows" that you can find a woman who sticks with you forever because that has been his experience.

    It's a much simpler explanation than thinking he is a paid shill.

    IMHO the powers that be don't create tools for their use. They find someone who authentically believes what they are saying and then they give them the spot light. There is no better sales person than one who truly believes in the product.

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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    JP's motives, or his level of being informed -- neither is material to me. In general I don't care about people's motives, only their words and actions. Motives don't affect me; they're way out on the periphery The way in which they manifest is what affects me. In hardware-engineering terms, every human being is a black box: there are inputs and there are outputs, but how those outputs are generated inside the black box is not knowable. Try to figure out someone's brain relative to what he says and does and you're in for a long, hard slog. And your chances of being accurate at the end of that exercise aren't that high. It's all conjecture anyway. And so I say, why bother with it in the first place. A person is either right about something or wrong about something, and so his opinion is either valuable or disposable.

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    Re: An important message from Jordan Peterson

    O.K. This thread is beginning to bother me.

    I apologise for my use of foul language in this post but it the only way I can fully express my thoughts.

    We are all agreed that, for whatever reason, JP eventually comes round to espousing tradcon values.

    What are we arguing about? What do we care what some numb-nut fuck-wit thinks? We are MGTOW. His motivations are his own and I personally couldn’t give a big brown steaming shit.

    Divide and conquer, isn’t that an age old rule. Drop a bomb after seemingly befriending the enemy. Fuck that.

    We stand together. Brothers in the fight against gynocracy in all its forms, no matter how we decide to implement that stance.

    We can never fully appreciate the motivations of others so why bother trying? So he may say some shit that we all see the truth of but his overall message is one of everything will be all right if only we can understand his viewpoint.

    He’s just another cunt that wants us to believe that the dream of a nice home with a picket fence and a nice wife and kids where everyone loves each other is an ideal that is possible.

    Bollocks.

    I will continue to listen to his message in the same way I listen to the feminist arguments, to keep myself appraised of what’s going on in the world and no more.

    Maybe one day he’ll come to understand the depth of his mistakes, but I for one won’t be holding my breath.
    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    All we can do is keep ourselves from all those who don't deserve it. – Dave Matthes


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