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  1. #41
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    Re: Lack of accountability, Sky News discusses that women are at greater risk of not meeting retirement goals

    Capitalism does not "Work". Or at least how you think it is working.
    There are 10000 people working like your billionaire in their early days. IT is just the rule of nature (80-20 rule) randomly choose the 20% of all those 100% to be highly successful. There is a big survival bias here.
    The billionaire will always have a effort-reward ratio of bigger than 1.
    But those who "failed" will all have that ratio much smaller than 1.

    Communists call that inequality. But I would argue that those are just nature.
    You cannot measure peoples' contribution using a subjective mind. And people's mind are subjective.

  2. #42

    Re: Lack of accountability, Sky News discusses that women are at greater risk of not meeting retirement goals

    Quote Originally Posted by Unboxxed View Post
    I think the saving grace is that people don't think of themselves like that. My own competition is in avoiding the trappings of no money. I compete with poverty. LOL

    And people are free to limit their efforts. People should have goals and working for them to accumulate capital is a great way to achieve them. Might as well explore the making of capital as it beats sitting around doing nothing with your life. And I got a lot out of it.




    I don't think people actually believe those things enough to hold themselves back from participating. Who are the bitter people who complain about that? It's better that they not let those thoughts stop them from joining in.




    Again, I don't think participants care about your distinction here. Let the philosophers argue that. I'm not going to surrender my capital because the capitalist system was not pure to some standard. It's working for me, Jack.




    You seem to hope for this. In fact, you're entire post is on the critical side. Why is that?

    No, I certainly don't hope for this. I came to this conclusion, because the times get tougher in an economical, political and also societal way. The gas station and the factory of the world (Russia and China) became powerful, because of the insatiable greed of our (Western) corporations and politicians. Of course the consumers aka John and Jane Doe are guilty too, but the former are the ones who get elected to prevent the latter from this kind of dependent situations. Greed is a capitalistic brand and was declared as a sin for good reasons, because it corrupts everyone and everything if you only give it enough time and space.

    I am neither against money nor against working, but for a fairer treatment. My approach is a humanist one. You guys are complaining about the obesity rate in your country, while in another country people are starving. This is not only wrong, it is simply not justifiable.

    To say people are free in their efforts is theoretically true, but there are life circumstances (earned or unearned) which don't support said statement. If you don't function anymore, you'll get dumped and replaced. For me, this is just inhumane behaviour. The most ruthless wins, the psychopaths, sociopaths and narcists rule. No wonder, why you are destroying country by country. The anger needs a ventil and you express it against other people's homes.

    Yes, I am living in a comparable rich country in Europe, but I traveled a lot and saw many comparable poor countries, talked with comparable poor people and never felt superior, because I don't define myself over my possessions or origin. And as soon as it was clear, that I wasn't American, the people were much, much friendlier.

    I can tell you, why I am on the critical side: I strongly believe, that every sort of work is worthy. Farming, mining and production are very important, but also are creative and inspirational work fields. We are humans, not robots. Not everything has to make sense or has to be efficient or productive. And if a human, who worked his whole life by making someone else's life better with his work, has to suffer from poverty only because of greed, this is not acceptable and there will - sooner or later - be ressentments, anger and revenge.

    Not long before the French Revolution began, the French Queen was told that the French had no breed and suffered from starvation. She answered that they should eat cake instead. You can tell how happy the people must have been as her head was cut off. It's not like the French Revolution couldn't have been prevented. But the thirst for power and greed was greater...
    "Le seul moyen d'affronter un monde sans liberté est de devenir si absolument libre qu'on fasse de sa propre existence un acte de révolte." - Albert Camus

  3. #43
    Administrator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of accountability, Sky News discusses that women are at greater risk of not meeting retirement goals

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard View Post
    You guys are complaining about the obesity rate in your country, while in another country people are starving. This is not only wrong, it is simply not justifiable.
    Not sure I follow you here. It sounds like we want our Americans to not eat so much. If you said we were bragging about our obesity while others were starving, I'd see disregard and insensitivity, yes.


    To say people are free in their efforts is theoretically true, but there are life circumstances (earned or unearned) which don't support said statement.
    Sure, and I note you also brought up other exceptions in your earlier post (to the statements that you had called lies). If we are going to talk about exceptions all of the time, you will find exceptions to anything I could ever say. Is the real issue here is that you do not like talking in apparent absolutes? Assume there are exceptions, yes, and, unless the exceptions are glaring examples that negate or undermine our statements, please don't let them derail you from forward discussion.


    If you don't function anymore, you'll get dumped and replaced. For me, this is just inhumane behaviour. The most ruthless wins, the psychopaths, sociopaths and narcists rule. No wonder, why you are destroying country by country. The anger needs a ventil and you express it against other people's homes.
    Are you saying all this is unique to capitalism? Whatever you exactly mean by "dumped and replaced", my guess is that, in any country, you can get dumped and replaced and have ruthlessness in the rulers. Who is destroying country by country? What do you mean by "expressing it toward other people's homes"?


    And as soon as it was clear, that I wasn't American, the people were much, much friendlier.
    Why do you think that is? Because of international politics? Or do we Americans eat too much?

    I have heard for most of my life of animosity towards Americans, that we think we are better than everybody else. I also heard from a lady in Spain in 1998 that it wasn't true. Maybe it's a new reason today? Or are we the same old stuck-up Americans as once before?


    I can tell you, why I am on the critical side: I strongly believe, that every sort of work is worthy. Farming, mining and production are very important, but also are creative and inspirational work fields. We are humans, not robots. Not everything has to make sense or has to be efficient or productive. And if a human, who worked his whole life by making someone else's life better with his work, has to suffer from poverty only because of greed, this is not acceptable and there will - sooner or later - be ressentments, anger and revenge.
    Ok, that sounds like you are talking about exploitation, not specifically capitalism. Interestingly, that's what I think about countries who are not America, third-world countries perhaps, run by despots maybe, but I don't retain what economic system they would say they are.

    But, you were earlier critical of capitalism which may have misled me to think you restricted your criticism of exploitation to only capitalist countries and not just anybody's exploitation?


    Not long before the French Revolution began, the French Queen was told that the French had no breed and suffered from starvation. She answered that they should eat cake instead. You can tell how happy the people must have been as her head was cut off. It's not like the French Revolution couldn't have been prevented. But the thirst for power and greed was greater...
    Well, actually, brioche instead of cake, attributed to Marie Antoinette.

    That was in the 18th century. Are you still mad about that? Countries do change, given a little time.

    Have some brioche, you'll feel better. LOL
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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  4. #44
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    Re: Lack of accountability, Sky News discusses that women are at greater risk of not meeting retirement goals

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard View Post
    I can tell you, why I am on the critical side: I strongly believe, that every sort of work is worthy. Farming, mining and production are very important, but also are creative and inspirational work fields. We are humans, not robots. Not everything has to make sense or has to be efficient or productive. And if a human, who worked his whole life by making someone else's life better with his work, has to suffer from poverty only because of greed, this is not acceptable and there will - sooner or later - be ressentments, anger and revenge.
    So does a instagram thot.
    Some jobs have to be worthless. If every job is worthy, that is just another form of communism.

  5. #45
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of accountability, Sky News discusses that women are at greater risk of not meeting retirement goals

    Quote Originally Posted by Unboxxed View Post
    I think the saving grace is that people don't think of themselves like that. My own competition is in avoiding the trappings of no money. I compete with poverty. LOL

    And people are free to limit their efforts. People should have goals and working for them to accumulate capital is a great way to achieve them. Might as well explore the making of capital as it beats sitting around doing nothing with your life. And I got a lot out of it.




    I don't think people actually believe those things enough to hold themselves back from participating. Who are the bitter people who complain about that? It's better that they not let those thoughts stop them from joining in.




    Again, I don't think participants care about your distinction here. Let the philosophers argue that. I'm not going to surrender my capital because the capitalist system was not pure to some standard. It's working for me, Jack.




    You seem to hope for this. In fact, you're entire post is on the critical side. Why is that?
    I like Capitalism! Where else on on earth can one build a $360,000 dollar house and be forced to sell it for less than $150,000 and still remain financially afloat and still have hopes of fortune and success? It's an elevator that runs both ways.

    Communism and socialism is no elevator, it's the same as using a crowded staircase ground to a standstill. As for me, I'm pushing the elevator button repeatedly waiting for my next ride!

    FUCK THE STAIRS!

  6. #46
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    Re: Lack of accountability, Sky News discusses that women are at greater risk of not meeting retirement goals

    Vent on
    Speaking of women with no money, wife #2 who I havent seen in 30 plus years called me in a very depressed mood this week. I get a voicemail from her once every couple months, cuz I dont take her calls. I do text back a thankyou when she calls on my Birthday. I dont block her, cuz she follows my daughters from wife 3 on Facebook.

    When we divorced, she had EVERYTHING going for her. She was young beautiful and had money to spend. Its all gone, she has no money, not eating, down to 90 lbs ,lives off disability and guess what she blames it on, her Dad because he didnt raise her right. Now that he is dead, she blames him. Her Dad took care of her for about 10 years or so after she went on disability. And this is the Thanks?

    No accountability at all

    Vent off

  7. #47

    Re: Lack of accountability, Sky News discusses that women are at greater risk of not meeting retirement goals

    Quote Originally Posted by Unboxxed View Post
    Not sure I follow you here. It sounds like we want our Americans to not eat so much. If you said we were bragging about our obesity while others were starving, I'd see disregard and insensitivity, yes.




    Sure, and I note you also brought up other exceptions in your earlier post (to the statements that you had called lies). If we are going to talk about exceptions all of the time, you will find exceptions to anything I could ever say. Is the real issue here is that you do not like talking in apparent absolutes? Assume there are exceptions, yes, and, unless the exceptions are glaring examples that negate or undermine our statements, please don't let them derail you from forward discussion.




    Are you saying all this is unique to capitalism? Whatever you exactly mean by "dumped and replaced", my guess is that, in any country, you can get dumped and replaced and have ruthlessness in the rulers. Who is destroying country by country? What do you mean by "expressing it toward other people's homes"?




    Why do you think that is? Because of international politics? Or do we Americans eat too much?

    I have heard for most of my life of animosity towards Americans, that we think we are better than everybody else. I also heard from a lady in Spain in 1998 that it wasn't true. Maybe it's a new reason today? Or are we the same old stuck-up Americans as once before?




    Ok, that sounds like you are talking about exploitation, not specifically capitalism. Interestingly, that's what I think about countries who are not America, third-world countries perhaps, run by despots maybe, but I don't retain what economic system they would say they are.

    But, you were earlier critical of capitalism which may have misled me to think you restricted your criticism of exploitation to only capitalist countries and not just anybody's exploitation?




    Well, actually, brioche instead of cake, attributed to Marie Antoinette.

    That was in the 18th century. Are you still mad about that? Countries do change, given a little time.

    Have some brioche, you'll feel better. LOL

    You should definitely save the brioche phrase for your people. Mad? Why should I be mad? I'm good, just doing fine and gladly live in a country which combines both, capitalistic and social elements and the result is a (really) peaceful state of being. There are no hordes of homeless living in the streets, there are no burning cities, no need to deploy the national guard, no uprisings, no police state, no commercial prison system, no drug or crime crisis, no border incidents, no divided society, no wars. Most European countries learned their lesson thanks to the French Revolution and many other cultural achievements. But as a young country, you probably have to make your own experiences, I guess. But it's a tragedy nonetheless.

    I wouldn't say that you are the same old stuck-up Americans as once before (when before?). Those Americans founded their state on humanist principles, which are now gone for the most part. What I see is a country who once was the world police but now has to accept its downfall as other nations rise. Soon the US will no longer be the most powerful country on the planet and I can understand that this has to hurt badly.

    Yes and no, exploitation can exist in every possible way and of course I am against it; who wouldn't be. However, the problem in a capitalistic system lies in its mechanism to gain as much market share as possible. Every actor's goal is to concentrate as much wealth as possible. You could compare it to the 80% / 20% rule (pareto principle), but both won't stop at 80%. To prevent a rebellion, you'll need to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor. If you fail in doing so, the country implodes.

    In fact, the fortunate ones have a moral obligation to support the unfortunate, at least from a humanist point of view which stands in the tradition of ancient, judeo-christian wisdom. I don't know if you are aware of it, but in managing this site, you are doing exactly this and I am really thankful for it.

    To explain what I meant by "destroying country by country" and "expressing inward anger toward other people's homes", you only have to look at the sheer endless list of military involvements of the US (the following list is not complete):

    1898 - 1935: Banana Wars (Cuba, Panama, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua)
    1899 - 1913: Moro Rebellion (Philippines)
    1910 - 1919: Mexican Border War
    1914 - 1918: WWI
    1918 - 1925: Russian Civil War
    1941 - 1945: WWII
    1945 - 1991: Cold War
    1950 - 1953: Korean War
    1958 - 1958: Lebanon Crisis
    1965 - 1965: Dominican Civil War
    1964 - 1975: Vietnam War
    1983 - 1983: Grenada
    1982 - 1984: Beirut
    1986 - 1986: Libya
    1989 - 1990: Invasion of Panama
    1990 - 1991: Persian Gulf War
    1992 - 1995: Somalia
    1994 - 1995: Haiti
    1998 - 1999: Yugoslavia
    2001 - 2021: Afghanistan
    2002 - 2015: Philippines
    2003 - 2011: Invasion of Iraq
    2011 - 2011: First Libyan Civil War
    2014 - 2021: Syrian Civil War
    2022 - ????: Ukraine

    It's really not hard to understand why half of the world (certainly South-America, Africa, Asia and parts of Oceania and Europe don't really like Americans. Of course this negative feelings are primarily due to the US politics and not your average American. But you say you are living in a democracy, so...
    "Le seul moyen d'affronter un monde sans liberté est de devenir si absolument libre qu'on fasse de sa propre existence un acte de révolte." - Albert Camus

  8. #48
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    Re: Lack of accountability, Sky News discusses that women are at greater risk of not meeting retirement goals

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard View Post
    An universal basic income would solve all these problems. In fact, there are good reasons for it since all other social security programs and insurances are soon more costly than UBI would be. And why it should be a good idea to allow funds to speculate with retirement money to artificially inflate the economy is another question to be asked.

    There is enough to feed everyone on this planet. There is enough, so that everyone can live a decent life. What the fuck are we actually doing? Our species is so fucking stupid and stubborn and greedy...

    I agree that our species can be incredibly stupid. However, I disagree that UBI will solve the issue, mainly because it's the same greedy, stupid species that will be running it. I don't know if you're in the US, but several years back, our government passed the Affordable Care Act (ACA) which was supposed to provide proper healthcare for all of us at an affordable price. Instead, it did what it was actually designed to do, and that was transfer money to the insurance companies. There are horror stories of people crawling off of the ambulance gurneys because the ambulance ride isn't covered in their plans, people who can't afford their medicine, etc. The problem with UBI would be that the same organization that gave us the ACA would be in charge of the UBI.
    Last edited by Jadedoldman65; August 16, 2022 at 3:09 PM.

  9. #49
    Administrator Unboxxed's Avatar
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    Re: Lack of accountability, Sky News discusses that women are at greater risk of not meeting retirement goals

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard View Post
    You should definitely save the brioche phrase for your people.
    LOL


    Mad? Why should I be mad?
    I was teasing, making a funny (I hope) about the age of your given example.


    I'm good, just doing fine and gladly live in a country which combines both, capitalistic and social elements and the result is a (really) peaceful state of being. There are no hordes of homeless living in the streets, there are no burning cities, no need to deploy the national guard, no uprisings, no police state, no commercial prison system, no drug or crime crisis, no border incidents, no divided society, no wars.
    Sounds wonderful, so now tell me about the negatives in your country that would undermine your point. There has to be some/many, even if you personally are ok with them in the balance. Otherwise I would think that the world would be beating down your door to get in? For instance, what would potential emigrants say to me to explain why they didn't choose your country instead of one like ours?


    Most European countries learned their lesson thanks to the French Revolution and many other cultural achievements. But as a young country, you probably have to make your own experiences, I guess. But it's a tragedy nonetheless.
    Besides the experience that comes from the age of Europe, have you ever considered that Europe has another advantage that America does not have? Europe is 4,000,000 square miles with 30 countries, 30 sets of national laws. The USA is 10,000,000 square miles and only one country, one set of national laws. You could fit Europe twice into the land of the USA and still have leftover space. And Europe is not a country. It's a group of 30. How convenient that these 30 puny-sized countries of Europe each get to customize their laws, fine-tune their situation within their smaller borders, such that any one of you can boast how great your country is while your neighboring countries may not be faring so well! Yeah you can say that Europe has over twice the population of the USA but when you break it down by country, look at these puny governed populations compared to the USA:

    European Countries by population (2022)

    Try governing a land mass the size of the USA with 335,000,000 people under a single government! Oh, wait, something has been tried with the European Union idea and there has been much discord, hasn't there?

    A country in Europe bragging to the entirety of the USA is more like any one of our 50 States bragging to our entire country. Not equivalent.

    So, while it's advantageous to say Europe this and Europe that, what I am pointing out must not be overlooked. Yet, too often it is. You can pick from 30 countries to win arguments while we cannot, and I notice this. Did you notice how you switched from bragging about your own specific country to then move to talk about Europe as a whole? Easy to do. I noticed.


    I wouldn't say that you are the same old stuck-up Americans as once before (when before?).
    When before? I dunno, during my adult life. Today I reread what I wrote and now I wonder if I really meant to say that I understood that Americans were disliked because we are provincial in our thinking, self-centered, knowledgeable only about ourselves and our ways and don't bother to realize that there are other ways of doing things. I heard the French didn't like us because we didn't even try to speak their language when we would vacation there. Maybe that has changed, I dunno.


    Those Americans founded their state on humanist principles, which are now gone for the most part. What I see is a country who once was the world police but now has to accept its downfall as other nations rise. Soon the US will no longer be the most powerful country on the planet and I can understand that this has to hurt badly.
    You wrote the above as part of your response about us begin stuck-up so it made me think why would our demotion in the world be justification for others hating on us? Unless... they fear we can no longer be their protector? I understand the USA defends many places in the world. The geopolitical version of noblesse oblige or something. I know a recent American president put an end to fellow NATO members' long-standing mooching from us to pay their membership fees, pretending through their silence that they still needed us to fund them, long after they became able to pay it for themselves. I read that these countries were not happy that they got caught doing this. Of course they will overlook this transgression in themselves and gang up on that former president as mean, along with everybody else, and who will bother to notice?

    But to your point, yes it does and will hurt America badly and for many years to come, I've read. I've read if China and others can bump the world from the US dollar as the world currency, this will damage us severely and from which we may never recover. I hope our next President addresses this, if it's not too late. Our current one has other priorities.


    Yes and no, exploitation can exist in every possible way and of course I am against it; who wouldn't be. However, the problem in a capitalistic system lies in its mechanism to gain as much market share as possible. Every actor's goal is to concentrate as much wealth as possible. You could compare it to the 80% / 20% rule (pareto principle), but both won't stop at 80%. To prevent a rebellion, you'll need to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor. If you fail in doing so, the country implodes.

    In fact, the fortunate ones have a moral obligation to support the unfortunate, at least from a humanist point of view which stands in the tradition of ancient, judeo-christian wisdom. I don't know if you are aware of it, but in managing this site, you are doing exactly this and I am really thankful for it.
    So then, we have mechanisms to prevent unbridled wealth acquisition from its extremes. Except I infer that our mechanisms are not working well enough for you? Hopefully, though, whatever you see in my site managing is enough for you at this micro level and that I have not fallen short.

    I sit in my wealth in this dirty capitalism.

    To explain what I meant by "destroying country by country" and "expressing inward anger toward other people's homes", you only have to look at the sheer endless list of military involvements of the US (the following list is not complete):

    1898 - 1935: Banana Wars (Cuba, Panama, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua)
    1899 - 1913: Moro Rebellion (Philippines)
    1910 - 1919: Mexican Border War
    1914 - 1918: WWI
    1918 - 1925: Russian Civil War
    1941 - 1945: WWII
    1945 - 1991: Cold War
    1950 - 1953: Korean War
    1958 - 1958: Lebanon Crisis
    1965 - 1965: Dominican Civil War
    1964 - 1975: Vietnam War
    1983 - 1983: Grenada
    1982 - 1984: Beirut
    1986 - 1986: Libya
    1989 - 1990: Invasion of Panama
    1990 - 1991: Persian Gulf War
    1992 - 1995: Somalia
    1994 - 1995: Haiti
    1998 - 1999: Yugoslavia
    2001 - 2021: Afghanistan
    2002 - 2015: Philippines
    2003 - 2011: Invasion of Iraq
    2011 - 2011: First Libyan Civil War
    2014 - 2021: Syrian Civil War
    2022 - ????: Ukraine

    It's really not hard to understand why half of the world (certainly South-America, Africa, Asia and parts of Oceania and Europe don't really like Americans. Of course this negative feelings are primarily due to the US politics and not your average American. But you say you are living in a democracy, so...
    I can easily spot from your list a few wars that we did not initiate. For many others, I would have to study up. Remember there are two sides to every story and sometimes a history between peoples extends back decades and even centuries. I understand that when a people of a country choose to dislike another country they are conveniently dismissive of any of their actions that contribute or are responsible for what they receive back. That, unfortunately, is the human nature we are stuck with. People omit their weaknesses and expect if the opposing person does not point out their weaknesses then the people continue to pretend these weaknesses do not exist. It happens at the individual level, too, of course. That is why I asked you above to provide aspects of your country that counter-balance your lovely description of it. Because your description was too good and I know you are blessedly human. The challenge to you is if you can self-examine enough to provide what I ask.

    All this conversation is intended in good-nature, please keep in mind.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
    - Henry David Thoreau

    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  10. #50

    Re: Lack of accountability, Sky News discusses that women are at greater risk of not meeting retirement goals

    Quote Originally Posted by Unboxxed View Post
    All this conversation is intended in good-nature, please keep in mind.
    Of course it is. Why shouldn't it be?

    I have no negative points to tell about my country. For me, it's perfect. From your perspective maybe there would be some negative points. There are almost 25% foreigners living in the country. There are churches, synagogues and minarets. There is a functioning welfare system. The borders are open, because all neighbors are friendly. There are four official languages, except one there are also spoken in the neighbouring countries. There is direct democracy with several parties which have to make a compromise, the people can make referendums to every political decision.



    Neutrality is a precious value, so you can make business with all sides. Mandatory military service for men only, women if they wish (around 1% of the military consists of women). It has the second largest GDP per capita in the world (USA is rank 1) And yes, there are a lot of people who wish to live here.



    Sure, there are differences in governing the US or the EU for example, but if you consider every EU member as a party of its own, the EU still has more parties than the US. For me, it's really weird how such a big country like the US can only have two big parties. The more parties a country has, the more choice there is. Maybe there is need for a constitutional change to make sure a certain amount of parties are representated in congress and the senate? And to get rid of the-winner-takes-it-all practice to flatten the path for a compromise? Or to give the people the right to vote directly for politicians instead of indirectly through parties? And to give the people the right to make referendums, so all Americans could vote and express their opinion? Just some ideas.

    It is true, that the US protected Europe. But I would be glad if the US removed their troops from Europe. There is no need for a NATO anymore, unless you aim at two military blocs which inevitably will destroy each other. There is need for a planetary solution and this can only be accomplished with all countries.

    Man, we need to conquer the stars, not nuking us into oblivion. Or does mankind really need to discover a hostile alien race which have the goal to kill us all to work together?
    Last edited by Smoking Wizard; August 14, 2022 at 10:34 PM.
    "Le seul moyen d'affronter un monde sans liberté est de devenir si absolument libre qu'on fasse de sa propre existence un acte de révolte." - Albert Camus


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