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  1. #1
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    Kill the Bitch (in you)

    I just read a bunch more comments surrounding the Coach Greg Adams vs Rich Cooper dust up. I posted another thread about it, but I think this is separate enough for it's own post.

    I'm constantly amazed at how much bitchiness their is in the "manosphere". Seeing what sometimes starts out as honest debate turn into a bickering cat fight, especially when it involves "god fathers of the sphere" is especially disappointing.

    My first gut reaction is to think how far men have fallen from the days in which my grandfather fought in WWII. I think of how stoic those guys where. Then I realize however, that even he cucked and married my grandmother when she already had a pack of kids.

    It makes me wonder exactly what it means to be masculine. Perhaps this has all been a natural evolution. Guys like my grandfather where tough as nails, but they gave absolutely no thought about their own well being. The lived the "women and children first" lifestyle to it's logical end. Today's men are just the opposite. I see young men all around me sniveling about every perceived slight or transgression.

    On occasion, I see this behavior in myself and it sickens me. The question then is "What is a real man?". You can't map your way their without knowing the goal. That being said, I'm pretty sure the first step is to kill your inner bitch.

    It's been said that feminism didn't free women, it exposed them. The obvious corollary is that men now know that nobody has our back, and that truly sucks. I think a certain amount of bitchiness was to be expected as a result.

    A lesser known term coined by Rollo Tomassi is "Enlightened Self Interest". I like that idea. It's so ironic to me that this very guy keeps getting caught up in all of these cat fights. First with Roosh, then with the 21 Convention, and now with Greg Adams.

    This is already rambling too much, but I'll try to pull it together here. What is the ideal behavior? Self interest has to be a part of it. I think a good measure of stoicism is also an ingredient. How do we engage in honest debate without becoming bitchy? Watching the "thought leaders" engage in this behavior makes me want t turn off the internet. How then do you reach the new kids coming up in this hot mess?

    I'm not sure society ever really knew what a real man looks like. We seem to vacillate between dying for no reason for the benefit of others and turning ourselves into women. Is there no stable middle path?

  2. #2
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Kill the Bitch (in you)

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    Then I realize however, that even he cucked and married my grandmother when she already had a pack of kids.
    This gave me a chuckle.

    On serious note, this is an interesting thought, and it comes up in my mind too. I have a personal solution to this, and that is to get rid of the need to have a role model or to "look up" to someone. I only listen to ideas, and the ideas which I like I follow, and those which I dont like, I reject. Beyond that, I dont really care about the activities of the source of the ideas unrelated to ideas I like.

    In my mind, a solid idea should be like a mathematical proof. It doesnt matter who wrote it, it doesnt matter what that person is in his real life, if its correct, then its correct. It has its own existence, independent of its creator. Of course, ideas can be changed or adapted based on changing situations, often by the source, but also by others following them.

    Regarding being a true man, I gave up on thinking about what it is to be a true man. If I put it somewhat jokingly, I'd say its easier to be a true machine, grounded in concrete logic. This is the reason why I like the ideology of propertarianism. I talked about some aspects of it in other thread, but what I really like about it is that it gives a very clear definition of truthfulness, morality and other such things. I read about them and I liked it more than what I read or heard from any sources of any other ideology, be it religion or be it someone's ideal way of living a life. That someone can very well be some youtuber who is a mgtow or libertarian or alt-right or whatever.

    This brings me to my point regarding "ideal behaviour". That is a very personal choice, its a kind of personal religion. What is ideal for you, may not be ideal for me. If you try to find some kind of absolute ideal/moral, then all the paths will lead to just one place : nihilism. There can really nothing be absolutely right or wrong. Why are you living in the first place ? Whats the point ? To answer question like that, you will assume something, which can be a fact (like scared of death) or can be an arbitrary moral (life is not ours to take). When you combine all these statements into one package, then thats it, its your "religion". Your flavor of ideal way of life will be to assume that specific set of statements to be true and build all other ideas from that. Of course, people quite often, dont think that way. They have some haphazard set of principles, which will often contradict themselves. When the contradiction is brought to their attention, they will either adapt and modify their principles, or go into cognitive dissonance and will try to ignore it.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  3. #3
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Kill the Bitch (in you)

    I fucking hate DRAMA!

    My little inner bitch was drawn and quartered in 1997 the day I realized I'm on my own both politically and morally. I'm immersed in a condemned family campground in the eyes of the law, yet demands are made as if I were a legal law abiding citizen, fuck everything and throw it all away, it's garbage not worth touching!

    The law is our enemy on so many levels with the gates of justice closed forever. This motherfucker is going to the bottom with a hold full of iron oar! Nobody cares, we're being marched to destruction by goosestep gestapo law, new day, same old tyrant, just wearing a different uniform.

    I don't engage in pissing matches or any kind of bitch toss back and forth, I run them over with the truth and continue on my journey through this shithole called life.

    P.S. Men isolated from justice by law can and usually becomes a dangerous thing. We're those men! We see the injustice in full spectrum and wavelength most cannot see or even begin to comprehend. Red pill is the Marianas trench of comprehension, there is a bottom, and we're standing on it, it's where you arrive when you realize it's not you ghosting, but rather society ghosted you in all that's said and done to you, about you, and without you. My ghost is "mutual", my society is nothing more than an apportion reflecting back to me. My streets, all 7, 14 miles, 280 acres, were condemned and abandoned in 1974, except for the few that dwell here on illegal residential subdivision lots surrounded by miles and miles of trees.

    I'm way the fuck past pissed off from pissed on, if anyone has a right to go berserk, that be me!

    Just realize how fucked the situation is for men and get over it! Move on, don't let the gestapo of marriage contracts and other so-called "agreements" drafted and enforced by law and government to your obvious detriment and suffering. This form of modern society is like a snake eating itself and the marching won't stop until they annihilate the human species. The writing's on the wall! BIG BOLD PRINT!
    Last edited by mgtower; October 1, 2019 at 12:48 PM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Kill the Bitch (in you)

    I don't disagree with either of the above. I don't have any idols or role models per se. I just find the whole scene to be disgusting in aggregate. I do like interesting debate however. I think it's in the line of steel sharpening steel. I'm trying to figure out why and how honest debate so often turns into a bitch-fest. It's obvious when the line has been crossed. Is the trigger simply personal weakness on the part of the participants?

  5. #5
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    Re: Kill the Bitch (in you)

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    Is the trigger simply personal weakness on the part of the participants?
    You may be on to something here. I have certainly noticed that when you poke holes in some peoples’ theories they get frustrated because they haven’t fully thought through their argument, yet still believe they are right. You then become a fool in their eyes because THEY are incapable of fully expressing themselves. This frustration maybe then turns to annoyance or even anger at themselves which they then project onto others because, after all, they know the truth and you must be at fault for not being able to see it.

    With those in the media’s eye though there is probably another level to this – I am trying to make a name for myself and you’re getting in my way therefore I must show my superiority and if I cannot do that with reason then I must find another way, so I will just try to ridicule you. Bitchiness can be an effective (if dishonest) tool if used right.
    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    All we can do is keep ourselves from all those who don't deserve it. – Dave Matthes

  6. #6
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Kill the Bitch (in you)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    You may be on to something here. I have certainly noticed that when you poke holes in some peoples’ theories they get frustrated because they haven’t fully thought through their argument, yet still believe they are right. You then become a fool in their eyes because THEY are incapable of fully expressing themselves. This frustration maybe then turns to annoyance or even anger at themselves which they then project onto others because, after all, they know the truth and you must be at fault for not being able to see it.

    With those in the media’s eye though there is probably another level to this – I am trying to make a name for myself and you’re getting in my way therefore I must show my superiority and if I cannot do that with reason then I must find another way, so I will just try to ridicule you. Bitchiness can be an effective (if dishonest) tool if used right.
    Bitchiness has no room in any debate, yet we see it all the time in the political arena, where did civility and rules to public order go? To the dogs if you ask me, and this society sure has allot of dogs!

    I found the truth hurts and must be plunged into my chest repeatedly! Like intellectual hari keri to kill and clean out the infection planted there by society and its deception as a whole (up side down lots of lies). It's a matter of going against the grain, going against the tide, all by your lonesome climbing a mountain, like a crab escaping from a bucket of crabs, one wrong move and you get dragged back to the plantation by legal decree where you must work for the benefit of those that despise and ridicule you! That's life, evade or be captured!

  7. #7
    Senior Member rkspsm's Avatar
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    Re: Kill the Bitch (in you)

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    It's obvious when the line has been crossed. Is the trigger simply personal weakness on the part of the participants?
    Weakness, or one or both parties have realized that civility is futile. Imagine arguing with a hardcore leftist/feminist on a channel where there is anonymity (say some online game). If you have to argue and cant avoid it, then there is no point being civil if the other side is not. They wont listen to you anyways, so why not have some fun ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    You may be on to something here. I have certainly noticed that when you poke holes in some peoples’ theories they get frustrated because they haven’t fully thought through their argument, yet still believe they are right. You then become a fool in their eyes because THEY are incapable of fully expressing themselves. This frustration maybe then turns to annoyance or even anger at themselves which they then project onto others because, after all, they know the truth and you must be at fault for not being able to see it.
    I think there is one more scenario, and that is when both parties believe in different narrative. Take for example the classic argument on why women dont perform equal to best men in non-physical/intellectual abilities, like chess, math, programming etc. One narrative says that they are just not smart enough, the smartest men are just smarter than smartest women. Other narrative says that they are oppressed by that boogeyman they call patriarchy. I had argument on this very topic with so many people that I lost count. This almost always ends up in stalemate, unless the other guy is red pilled.
    A clever fighter not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. His victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom, nor credit for courage. He wins his battles by making no mistakes. Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

    Sun Tzu in The Art of War
    MGTOW is about making no mistakes against gynocentrism.

  8. #8
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    Re: Kill the Bitch (in you)

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    Bitchiness has no room in any debate
    Agreed. Once debate stoops to that level I loose interest entirely, and if it's a debate in which I'm involved I consider myself the winner by default (although I do not necessarily think I was right!).
    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    All we can do is keep ourselves from all those who don't deserve it. – Dave Matthes

  9. #9
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    Re: Kill the Bitch (in you)

    Quote Originally Posted by rkspsm View Post
    I think there is one more scenario, and that is when both parties believe in different narrative. Take for example the classic argument on why women dont perform equal to best men in non-physical/intellectual abilities, like chess, math, programming etc. One narrative says that they are just not smart enough, the smartest men are just smarter than smartest women. Other narrative says that they are oppressed by that boogeyman they call patriarchy. I had argument on this very topic with so many people that I lost count. This almost always ends up in stalemate, unless the other guy is red pilled.
    I have no problem with debate ending in stalemate. Oftentimes this is down to people being entrenched in their views and no amount of reasoning is going to solve this, but at least you get to hear another perspective on things - this is good.

    My problem is when those involved start hurling insults that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.
    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    All we can do is keep ourselves from all those who don't deserve it. – Dave Matthes

  10. #10
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    Re: Kill the Bitch (in you)

    While there's no comparing your grandfather with todays feather merchants, your only seeing part of grandpas life. Their formative years were spent in the great depression and WW II. They faced many hardships even before the war. It made them tough, self reliant and humble, along with many other fine traits. But it came at a price. Putting others first all the time eventually takes it's toll. General unhappiness, health problems and sometimes an early death was in the future for a lot of them. Many ended up short on people skills too. A lot of my first boss's were WW II vets. For the most part they had the same management style that had been used on them growing up, which was "fuck you if you don't like it." While this works, and some employees need it, there's usually better ways to get things done.

    I used to curse these hammerheads regular, and swore I'd never be like them. But I have to admit I now identify with them more than I do todays people.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

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    Re: Kill the Bitch (in you)

    Quote Originally Posted by frog View Post
    While there's no comparing your grandfather with todays feather merchants, your only seeing part of grandpas life. Their formative years were spent in the great depression and WW II. They faced many hardships even before the war. It made them tough, self reliant and humble, along with many other fine traits. But it came at a price. Putting others first all the time eventually takes it's toll. General unhappiness, health problems and sometimes an early death was in the future for a lot of them. Many ended up short on people skills too. A lot of my first boss's were WW II vets. For the most part they had the same management style that had been used on them growing up, which was "fuck you if you don't like it." While this works, and some employees need it, there's usually better ways to get things done.

    I used to curse these hammerheads regular, and swore I'd never be like them. But I have to admit I now identify with them more than I do todays people.
    My grandfather was made the pack mule for his entire family by his mother. As I understand it, his dad either died or walked out. Either way, he ended up working to pay for his brother and sisters food and clothing. His mom treated him like shit.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Azure Nomad's Avatar
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    Re: Kill the Bitch (in you)

    Leaders and role models are fine for young men but if you are past the age of 30 you should start to believe in your own wisdom, experiences and knowledge far more. A lot of infighting that happens in the manosphere is a result of trying to exert a singular path that tries to pigeonhole all men to follow.

    But in the end the best path forward for men is to believe in themselves. Pooling together resources, talent and cooperation of men is important in endeavors regarding legal fights for example.

    So while there is merit for men to circle the wagons for common causes. But if the end goal is not in the realm of making the world a better place then it is about the ego.

    I refuse to follow someones ego when I prefer to invest in my own ego and trust myself. Trust thyself I say:

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/733...string-nothing

    Quote Originally Posted by pbisque View Post
    Regarding the OP, I probably differ from many with my opinion.

    I think a good number of men really are simply good men who want to help others. We are in fact, very easy marks for the rest of humanity. I know for a fact that my mother preyed on my basic nature. She dumped all of her problems onto me and I earnestly tried to help, as young as I was. Like all people, we project our own values, in this case innate goodness, onto the people around us and expect them to return kindness back to us. Because we attract predators however, this almost never happens. The projecting is strong however and it takes a good long while for us to wake up and realize we aren't the ones doing anything wrong.

    This is why Robert Glover, author of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" rubs me the wrong way. His concept of cover contracts assumes we are all driven by cost benefit analysis. That all "nice" actions are driven by our own covert needs. He also assumes that women don't know exactly what men want from them. This is a crock of shit. Women know exactly what they are doing when they get men to dance like monkeys for them. "Nice Guys" are trained by their very own mothers to simp for everyone. It isn't a covert contract, it is a fraudulent contract with the "Nice Guy" as the dupe. Assuming if we give others what they want and need, they will return the favor is all part of this fraudulent deal.

    I offer a personal example from my life. I was just starting to digest the red pill. I was trying desperately to kill my inner beta / nice guy persona. In this instance I failed.

    A complete mess of a family had their car break down in front of the coffee shop I was in. They came in and asked the barista for help. She politely declined and apologized because she REALLY wished she could help (I'm guessing not really). I looked at the bitchy wife shooting daggers at her man. I looked at the poor simp trying his best to figure out how to fix the situation. I saw the little girl who didn't understand what was going on. She simply was at the end of her tether and wanted very badly to be at home.

    I instinctively jumped up and helped them. It turned out to be an issue with their battery if I recall correctly. I helped them get the old one out and get it to the nearest auto-parts store. All of this was taking far too long for the wife. She had attitude the whole time. My heart genuinely bled for the dude because I had been on the receiving end of that kind of attitude many times in my life.

    All total, I bet I spent an hour and a half helping these people out. I never expected anything in return from them. They were in fact from out of town and I knew that I would never see them again. Something deep inside me just made me want to help them. Afterward though, I was kicking myself. Why did I waste so much time helping complete strangers? Am I not supposed to be killing this nice guy thing? Why did not another soul in the coffee shop even look up? Everyone else in the place did their level best to ignore these distressed people? As a side note, the man was the only one that said thanks. Another reoccurring theme in life I'm afraid.

    I don't have the answers to these questions. I only offer this story to tell you, maybe you really are just a nice guy. If anyone else reading this identifies with it, you need to steel yourself against reality. Most people are shit and will use you until their is nothing left. Stop projecting your innate goodness onto people that do not deserve it. In my opinion, the only thing you should offer to complete strangers is courtesy. Beyond that, you make your decisions on a case by case basis. Do you have time to help the stranded family? Then help them if you choose. You damned well better not miss that job interview for them though. You come first. Everyone else benefits from your energy only when you see fit.
    But you did gain something from that interaction. What you gained in that interaction was knowledge and another layer of understanding regarding human nuances and behaviors. You are already ahead of most in the world when it comes to reading between the lines.

    When white knights help people are they learning about how people view their help? No, and in fact the white knight is bewildered or confused by that exchange. Ask me how I know this...I used to beat myself up emotionally for providing help and then being rejected. My failure to read people and to gain knowledge is why the cycle of white knighting is hard to break.

    I finally broke the cycle of my white knighting when I realized that some people want to be in misery. I accepted this and started to read people better and understand social nuances and calibration. I abandoned the savior complex I had been instilled with from grade school and embraced a personal and more intimate attitude.
    Last edited by Azure Nomad; October 2, 2019 at 5:42 AM.


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