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  1. #21

    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptic View Post
    I only ever did it once as I learned my lesson but the dumbest thing I did was one night at a pub I bought drinks for 4 women just so I could sit with them. Yes, I was young and lonely and I thought somehow they would see me as being a nice guy. I was still naive and of course didn't realize women don't like nice guys! They actually thought I was a sleaze as one of the women was very honest about how she felt.

    The irony is I didn't do or say anything sleazy and although my act of buying them drinks was stupid it was also pure of heart. I just didn't know any better at the time.

    My attempts at trying to break the cycle of loneliness when I was young always ended in failure and with me feeling even more alone. Instead of fighting it I accepted and became happier. As the Robin Williams quote above, people who make you feel alone are worse.
    You'll notice: She treated you like you were sleazy, but she accepted the drink paid for with your money. If I thought someone were some kind of sleazeball, no way would I accept anything from them. They're entitled. They simply expected you to pay for the drinks as if you owed it to them.

    I remember before going MGTOW, I had this feeling, "I can't stand having to buy shit for women, but that's just the way it is. You have to do it." We don't have to do that shit anymore! Fuck them. They can buy their own shit.

  2. #22
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    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    I remember before going MGTOW, I had this feeling, "I can't stand having to buy shit for women, but that's just the way it is. You have to do it."
    No... Bad Boys don't buy the women drinks... Women buy them drinks...

    You were queuing up for the BP provider they were not ready for yet...

  3. #23
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    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    You'll notice: She treated you like you were sleazy, but she accepted the drink paid for with your money. If I thought someone were some kind of sleazeball, no way would I accept anything from them. They're entitled. They simply expected you to pay for the drinks as if you owed it to them.

    I remember before going MGTOW, I had this feeling, "I can't stand having to buy shit for women, but that's just the way it is. You have to do it." We don't have to do that shit anymore! Fuck them. They can buy their own shit.
    Yeah it wasn't lost on me at the time either. I was probably around 19 or so and didn't just buy one round of drinks that night. I would have spent a few hundred. In the grand scheme of things it was a cheap lesson that had a huge impact on me.

  4. #24

    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    The way I see it, "loneliness" boils down to instinct. When I'm thinking about the way humans act, I tempt to picture us in our "natural environment." I.o.w. in the prehistoric era's. We are primates, functioning in group behavior. Said groups are hierarchical. Group behavior is a evolutionary "strategy" to maximize chances of survival. Group behavior has a lot of advantages: members can diversify tasks: 1 or 2 on the lookout for predators, while the rest is foraging. In a group chances are lower you will be caught by a predator. Group members can also take care of minor injured individuals who otherwise would be dead but now live to fight another day. The only disadvantage of groups is there are more mouths to feed. Numerical I'd say species with group behavior are fare more successful than individualistic ones.
    How does this relate to loneliness? Well, our instincts "tell" us, we are safer in a group then we are alone. Those are the same instincts "telling" us we should eat when we're hungry or take care and love our females.
    The way I overcame "loneliness" is twofold. First I realized 1 simple fact. I was born alone, live alone and I will die alone. Everyone else comes and goes in my life. Second is realizing that instinct is nowadays as useful as the one telling me to love our females. Only by observing how much women appreciate that /s. I think most men here have drawn the same conclusion I have: the human species need females. But me as an individual man don't need them. Females need me but that's not my problem. For me the same goes with not having to feel lonely when I'm alone. Alone is a state of being, lonely is a state of mind. Don't get me wrong: I usually appreciate the presence of other people. But I know they all will be gone sooner or later, ending up as alone as I was, am and will be. I even think I'll be fine should I be the last human being alive and every one else is dead. I'll die too. Be it in 10 minutes or 30 years. But until then I'll be fine.

  5. #25
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    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    I think there are two ways of seeing the same thing here.


    Some advocate that the "connection" to other people or to women is some Disney dream and I totally concur in the way they see it. But this Disney "connection" is an existing concept of human basic needs that has been extrapolated to fairy tales, we all understand that and how it plays in the relationshits and the blue-pill world.

    I also totally concur that self-sufficiency is your priority and the first connection you must seek in life, is the one with yourself and it is often overlooked. Many people don't really know who they are or have been able to unleash their full potential in life because their connection with themselves has been broken early by other toxic people who ought to use them.


    You can have a huge "connection" with animals for example and animals can have a huge "connection" with you. It doesn't relate only because you are feeding them (and I have seen amazing things coming from animals), it is an exchange of mutual recognition, respect and caring, what we may call "love". The thing is that it is very easy to have that connection with any kind of animal (provided that you like animals and you are empathetic), be it a female or a male. So why it is so hard with humans?

    The "connection" Tigplaze speaks about is a very basic human need and the human female seems to be incapable of that due to her own biology, our evolution history and how society has extrapolated her nature (and Disney...). I am not speaking of the need of finding a perfect soulmate.

    For example the Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs list this need as a basic human need and this is simple known psychology.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Maslow

    The loneliness may arise from that, but it is important to socialize with people and to travel to offset this, to engage in new experiences and the priority is to find the connection with yourself. Socializing and engaging with other people is always temporary, but that is a part of life itself. It is up to oneself to gauge the level of socialization/connection needed for his own well being, provided that it is not resulting in negative energy.

    And as others said, some people will make you feel loneliness even in their company.

  6. #26

    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    I remember in my 20s, when I was newly away from home, I felt lonely as fuck. And then I sought to handle that by finding a girlfriend, but that was a major hassle. I got plenty of dates, but never felt very connected with any of them, and it seemed next to impossible to land a steady girlfriend.

    I would try going to parties, but as the stupid parties, I would feel even more alone. There were people there doing stupid, wacko shit, like drinking games and beer bongs, but I always hated that shit. I refused to do any of that.

    One person told me that the opposite of loneliness isn't being with lots of people. The opposite is connection. It might explain why you could actually be together with someone, but still feel terribly lonely. So if you just had a few good friends, and they were people who really understood you, and you understood them, you would feel connected and not lonely. There's no need for a classic romantic relationship.

    It seems to make sense. If that's true, then every one of us has a chance to find connection, and we MGTOW are perfectly good with no wife or girlfriend. The woman I know who is a professional cuddler says her clients are always seeking connection, and most of them are married men. If being married doesn't give you good connection, and you feel totally lonely anyway, why the fuck would anyone want to do it?

    For me, it has definitely helped to find other men who've had the same bullshit experiences in dating and relationships. I thought I was alone, and maybe I was cursed or something. I remember when I was frustrated out of my mind with how shitty dating was, I thought, "Jesus H. Christ, I was already fed up with this bullshit five years ago." The bullshit is never ending if you keep playing that game. And if you can get better connection by paying some professional woman to cuddle with you or to fuck you, then that shows how sick society is.

    I remember it never occurred to me that maybe society was simply fucked up beyond all recognition. In a healthy society, women wouldn't be seeking to use and dump men for economic advancement. They would be seeking that connection that is a basic human need. It's no wonder that so many women make horrible wives when the default position of women is to seek economic advancement via marriage and not connectivity.
    Well cause majority of guys are chasing whimin and ignoring their male friends, just to get a girlfriend and display their high status ego. Then there's this second advice hammered through media to never befriend weak men or people that are not useful.

  7. #27
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    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    This is absolutely true. It's not just loneliness, though--it's a sense of disconnection and betrayal, even if she's not actively cheating (yet). If there's one person you *should* (according to conventional norms) be able to rely on, it's your wife. When you lose that, you become even more isolated than you would by simply being alone.



    Quote Originally Posted by K-Dog View Post
    Some honest guys who married and divorced after several years will tell you they were most lonely while married. Not joking. The point was that the relationship had become so toxic and the wife was so horrible that the husband was essentially alone and unable to rely on anyone, especially after frivorce proceedings started. So there's that.

  8. #28
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    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Loneliness is emotional nonsense.

    Forgive me if this seems cruel, when you feel lonely it is VERY painful and I have no wish to minimalize this very real pain but I need to point out that it’s all very much illusionary perception.

    There is no “need” for contact with others other than the importance you place on it.

    I stated in my intro that I went through a period of agoraphobia. During this period I had a sudden realisation that I had went for some months without physically contacting another – not so much as a hand-shake – and this realisation freaked me out.

    It took a while, but I eventually realised that this meant absolutely nothing at all except for the importance I placed on it.

    So it is with feelings of loneliness. They are but feelings and offer nothing other than to make you feel bad about yourself and your situation.

    Finding contentment within myself, for myself released me from such preconceptions of what I do or don’t need to be happy.

    Sure, I do still enjoy and seek the company of others but I no longer think of it as a need, just something to enjoy like watching a movie or playing a video game. It has no more importance than anything else in my life.

  9. #29

    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Loneliness is emotional nonsense.

    Forgive me if this seems cruel, when you feel lonely it is VERY painful and I have no wish to minimalize this very real pain but I need to point out that it’s all very much illusionary perception.

    There is no “need” for contact with others other than the importance you place on it.

    I stated in my intro that I went through a period of agoraphobia. During this period I had a sudden realisation that I had went for some months without physically contacting another – not so much as a hand-shake – and this realisation freaked me out.

    It took a while, but I eventually realised that this meant absolutely nothing at all except for the importance I placed on it.

    So it is with feelings of loneliness. They are but feelings and offer nothing other than to make you feel bad about yourself and your situation.

    Finding contentment within myself, for myself released me from such preconceptions of what I do or don’t need to be happy.

    Sure, I do still enjoy and seek the company of others but I no longer think of it as a need, just something to enjoy like watching a movie or playing a video game. It has no more importance than anything else in my life.
    You may have an introverted, or even a super-introverted, personality. I'm introverted, and it's the main reason why I survive quite well in solitude. I only need periodic connection with friends. It's not something I need every day. However, not everyone is like us. It makes me think MGTOW is probably a tougher lifestyle for someone who is inherently extroverted. Such a person may be better off in a profession where they're around people more, for example, as a fireman.

  10. #30
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    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post

    There is no “need” for contact with others other than the importance you place on it.
    You Nailed it!!!

    Growing up, and child development etc, I tend to believe you need human interaction. There is enough proof of that.

    If you don't have it, learn to not need it, if you don't need it, you don't miss it.

    Would it be nice to have someone to clean, cook and empty my ball sack into? Yes. But do I need someone to do that for me? Nope. I can manage just fine.

    Once a man has learned to be independent, there is no need for human interaction.

    In the early parts of a relationship the female will express admiration for the male, this gives the male a flood of "Feelgood" natural chemicals... Guess who gets addicted to these drugs?? Guess who keeps (paying) the female to get more of these "feelgood" drugs... This is likely part of what we call love. Yep, she is your drug dealer in the early part of the relationship. That basic human need that you need interaction/affection, that others have mentioned, is your natural "Feelgood" drugs in action.

    Learn to kick the habit...
    Last edited by RustyNuts; December 7, 2022 at 1:14 PM.

  11. #31

    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Fully agree with Rusty.

    Even if it's your nature - even if you are e.g. extremely extroverted and recharge in the company of others - you must remind yourself that your nature is NOT immutable.
    In fact, it is your moral obligation to guide your nature. You are most definitely NOT supposed to be a slave to it.

    Nature - i.e. our genes, that guided our evolution as a species - it taught us to hunt for high energy food.

    - You live 50 centuries ago. You hunt, and you find a nice, fat animal. Is it good for you to skin, cook and eat it, when you know you won't find anything again for a week? Sure.

    - You live today. Is it good for you to go to the local fast-food joint, and have a monster burger followed by an ice cream? Every day?

    As far as you brain - designed by "nature", remember? - is concerned, both questions are the same!

    But as a rational being, you *know* that's not the case. The fact that you evolved to hunger for sugar, for fat, is just an attribute of how you - as a member of the human species - were "forged", over untold millennia. If one of your ancestors didn't have the "i-love-sugar-and-fat" gene, he simply died. So all of us carry the damn thing with us, even though we can now eat 5K calories in 1h by just dialing on the f-ing phone.

    That desire, that nature, is NOT you. That's the animal genes in you, after uncountable iterations of evolution.

    And the same applies to your desire for companionship, for the Holy Vagina, for societal compliance.

    Look at yourself in the mirror, and choose to fight your "nature".
    That's the only way to be free.
    Last edited by end_of_days; December 10, 2022 at 8:02 AM.

  12. #32
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    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    You may have an introverted, or even a super-introverted, personality. I'm introverted, and it's the main reason why I survive quite well in solitude. I only need periodic connection with friends. It's not something I need every day. However, not everyone is like us. It makes me think MGTOW is probably a tougher lifestyle for someone who is inherently extroverted. Such a person may be better off in a profession where they're around people more, for example, as a fireman.
    I’d say I do have an introverted nature – now, but I wasn’t always this way.

    In my teens and early 20’s many would have seen me as being very extrovert – always being part of the local party scene, aggressive posture, one of the ‘in’ crowd and not one to be trifled with.

    But times change. As attractive as a fast lifestyle was to me in my youth it eventually paled. Luckily for me I didn’t get ‘so’ involved that I couldn’t just walk away when it suited me to do so.

    There’s a long explanation of this, but those that have walked that line will know what I mean. There’s a line that once crossed there’s little to no hope of any return to what most would consider normality.

    Today I wouldn’t say I’m super-introverted but I suppose that’s a matter of perspective, the extrovert may view me as such but I still enjoy a bit of socialising here and there. I’m just not addicted to it.

    I’m just as happy spending time on my own doing my own thing without the need for the validation of others.

  13. #33

    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by end_of_days View Post
    Fully agree with Rusty.

    Even if it's your nature - even if you are e.g. extremely extroverted and recharge in the company of others - you must remind yourself that your nature is NOT immutable.
    In fact, it is your moral obligation to guide your nature. You are most definitely NOT supposed to be a slave to it.

    Nature - i.e. our genes, that guided our evolution as a species - it taught us to hunt for high energy good.

    - You live 50 centuries ago. You hunt, and you find a nice, fat animal. Is it good for you to skin, cook and eat it, when you know you won't find anything again for a week? Sure.

    - You live today. Is it good for you to go to the local fast-food joint, and have a monster burger followed by an ice cream? Every day?

    As far as you brain - designed by "nature", remember? - is concerned, both questions are the same!

    But as a rational being, you *know* that's not the case. The fact that you evolved to hunger for sugar, for fat, is just an attribute of how you - as a member of the human species - were "forged", over untold millennia. If one of your ancestors didn't have the "i-love-sugar-and-fat" gene, he simply died. So all of us carry the damn thing with us, even though we can now eat 5K calories in 1h by just dialing on the f-ing phone.

    That desire, that nature, is NOT you. That's the animal genes in you, after uncountable iterations of evolution.

    And the same applies to your desire for companionship, for the Holy Vagina, for societal compliance.

    Look at yourself in the mirror, and choose to fight your "nature".
    That's the only way to be free.
    Those are good points. You can't live by instinct alone. It evolved millions of years ago, and numerous things don't apply or they lead you astray. A whopper with cheese, fries, and a Coke hit all those instincts to load up on calories, including fat, salt, and sugar. The companies know it too. It's why they design the food that way. It's designed to be addicted.

    However, MGTOW does not require you to be a hermit. You can be if you want to, but you don't have to be. Having companionship in the form of friends you hang out with sometimes, and keep up with on the phone, does not violate any MGTOW principles. Companionship isn't mandatory, but it's not prohibited either. It won't monkey wrench your freedom from being exploited by women. As long as no one talks you into finding a live-in girlfriend or a wife, you're good.

    My friends enhance my life. I'm glad to know people and to interact with them. None of them invade my privacy when I need it, and none of them are insisting that I have to go find a wife. So, we're good.

  14. #34
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    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    I’d say I do have an introverted nature – now, but I wasn’t always this way.

    In my teens and early 20’s many would have seen me as being very extrovert – always being part of the local party scene, aggressive posture, one of the ‘in’ crowd and not one to be trifled with.

    But times change. As attractive as a fast lifestyle was to me in my youth it eventually paled. Luckily for me I didn’t get ‘so’ involved that I couldn’t just walk away when it suited me to do so.

    There’s a long explanation of this, but those that have walked that line will know what I mean. There’s a line that once crossed there’s little to no hope of any return to what most would consider normality.

    Today I wouldn’t say I’m super-introverted but I suppose that’s a matter of perspective, the extrovert may view me as such but I still enjoy a bit of socialising here and there. I’m just not addicted to it.

    I’m just as happy spending time on my own doing my own thing without the need for the validation of others.
    Do you miss your lifestyle from your teens and 20s at all? All I did then was work and go to school. There was no party scene. Sometimes I think I missed out but I could have knocked someone up and been divorced by now.

  15. #35
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    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brock View Post
    Do you miss your lifestyle from your teens and 20s at all? All I did then was work and go to school. There was no party scene. Sometimes I think I missed out but I could have knocked someone up and been divorced by now.
    Hmm. Good question.

    Do I miss that lifestyle? Not at all. It’s a lifestyle I rejected for very good reason.

    But…

    To be perfectly honest there are times that I reminisce over with fond memories. The comradery, the seemingly never ending excitement of living in the moment, the feeling of being relevant.

    Call it a moment of clarity, of sudden realisation, whatever. At some point I realised what the future held for me if I continued down that road; a life of crime and (most likely) a huge amount of jail time.

    And yes, as I said I do reminisce fondly, but then I come back to my senses and realise that my emotions at that stage in my life were in control of my actions.

    This is the problem IMO when it comes to relationships. In our youth we act more on emotion than in reason. We KNOW that something’s not quite right, but we ignore our inner voice and just “go with the flow” because we know no better.

    Luckily, I realised before it was too late that “going with the flow” always leads to disaster in some way, shape or form. It’s a form of capitulation no matter the influences that life throws at you.

    Did you "miss out"?

    We make our choices and for every choice we make we reject another possible road. That's just the way it is and there's no point in "what ifs".

  16. #36

    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    Those are good points....

    However, MGTOW does not require you to be a hermit. You can be if you want to, but you don't have to be. Having companionship in the form of friends you hang out with sometimes, and keep up with on the phone, does not violate any MGTOW principles. Companionship isn't mandatory, but it's not prohibited either. It won't monkey wrench your freedom from being exploited by women. As long as no one talks you into finding a live-in girlfriend or a wife, you're good.

    My friends enhance my life. I'm glad to know people and to interact with them. None of them invade my privacy when I need it, and none of them are insisting that I have to go find a wife. So, we're good.
    Fair enough.

    But do keep in mind that fighting your nature - that, simply put, programmed you to simp for women, so your genes will propagate...
    Well, it's no easy task.

    And if your set of friends includes non-MGTOWs or females, you may very well find yourself in situations that can "push your buttons".

    - A male friend describing the constant bliss he experiences with his wife and kids
    - A lonely female friend that suddenly decides you are good enough, leans in and kisses you when you least expect.
    - A new woman joins a friendly gathering, and she's a 10/10 - and constantly looks at you throughout the evening, signaling interest
    - etc.

    I am not saying any of these scenarios will lead, by definition, to the disaster of modern live-in relationships.

    But... it can happen, if you are not careful.

    What I am trying to say, especially since I don't know how old you are and how close to "boiling with thirst" your blood is...
    ...is to always remember you are "programmed to fail", as far as resisting women is concerned.

    Good luck with your friendships - I hope they end up being a positive force in your life, and don't end up leading you were you don't want to go.

  17. #37

    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by end_of_days View Post
    Fair enough.

    But do keep in mind that fighting your nature - that, simply put, programmed you to simp for women, so your genes will propagate...
    Well, it's no easy task.

    And if your set of friends includes non-MGTOWs or females, you may very well find yourself in situations that can "push your buttons".

    - A male friend describing the constant bliss he experiences with his wife and kids
    - A lonely female friend that suddenly decides you are good enough, leans in and kisses you when you least expect.
    - A new woman joins a friendly gathering, and she's a 10/10 - and constantly looks at you throughout the evening, signaling interest
    - etc.

    I am not saying any of these scenarios will lead, by definition, to the disaster of modern live-in relationships.

    But... it can happen, if you are not careful.

    What I am trying to say, especially since I don't know how old you are and how close to "boiling with thirst" your blood is...
    ...is to always remember you are "programmed to fail", as far as resisting women is concerned.

    Good luck with your friendships - I hope they end up being a positive force in your life, and don't end up leading you were you don't want to go.
    At my age, my male friends are all either bachelors who have quit the dating crap like I have or they're married to someone so ugly that there isn't even a minuscule amount of envy if the dude's wife is around. And some of those wives were pretty hot when they got married. Most aren't Karens who order their husbands around, so that's probably why they stick with the status quo. I have a few female friends, all of whom lost whatever physical attractiveness they had years ago.

    In short, there's very little chance that any of the "programmed to fail" code will trip me up.

  18. #38

    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post
    At my age, my male friends are all either bachelors who have quit the dating crap like I have or they're married to someone so ugly that there isn't even a minuscule amount of envy if the dude's wife is around. And some of those wives were pretty hot when they got married. Most aren't Karens who order their husbands around, so that's probably why they stick with the status quo. I have a few female friends, all of whom lost whatever physical attractiveness they had years ago.

    In short, there's very little chance that any of the "programmed to fail" code will trip me up.
    Tig,
    I think he (end_of_days) meant “you’re programmed to fail” for this:

    “ - A new woman joins a friendly gathering, and she's a 10/10 - and constantly looks at you throughout the evening, signaling interest.”

  19. #39
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    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Nothing wrong with walking alone, society in a manipulative plan to harness mans utility to benefit society instead of himself has indoctrinated society that this is a correct normalization to manipulate and harness a mans utility for the benefit of every but himself.

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    Re: Is this true about loneliness?

    Quote Originally Posted by end_of_days View Post
    And if your set of friends includes non-MGTOWs or females, you may very well find yourself in situations that can "push your buttons".

    - A male friend describing the constant bliss he experiences with his wife and kids
    - A lonely female friend that suddenly decides you are good enough, leans in and kisses you when you least expect.
    - A new woman joins a friendly gathering, and she's a 10/10 - and constantly looks at you throughout the evening, signaling interest
    - etc.

    I am not saying any of these scenarios will lead, by definition, to the disaster of modern live-in relationships.

    But... it can happen, if you are not careful.
    I guess it depends on what you mean by “push your buttons”.

    Can their inane ramblings about how good it is to be in a relationship irritate? Well sure, because when doing so they accentuate the positives whilst simultaneously belittling the negatives. It can be annoying that, due to political correctness we are restrained from telling it as it is.

    But their self-denial of the whole truth about their situation cannot touch the thinking of the red-pilled. We see it for what it truly is and remain un-swayed by their delusional projections. After a while we see it as either humorous or pitiful, but our “buttons” remain intact.

    You speak here of some of the lures back to the plantation. Whilst it is true that many may find these things alluring, the MGHOW suffers no such doubt about his path.

    If you, or any other does have such doubts that can be awakened by the false testimony of others or by the advances of a female you find attractive you need to reflect upon what it is you desire from life.

    If the possibility of finding a unicorn is tempting to you, you need to ask yourself if you have truly shed the doctrine of the blue pill, or if you still believe in fairy tales.


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