Thread: Interesting take on MGTOW from a woman in Finland

Susanna Viljanen
Works at Aalto University

MGTOW is a phenomenon which should not exist at all according to hegemonic Marxist societal theory. According to Marxism, marriage is an exploitation relationship of men over women, where women are exploited of their sex and freedom in change of livelihood and protection, and marriage is a form of slavery on woman’s vantage point and prostitution on man’s vantage point.

In such situation, MGTOW is an impossibility. It is completely impossible for an oppressor and exploiter to turn down the oppressed and exploited. Ergo, according to the hegemonic Cultural Marxism and societal theory, it simply cannot exist.
The very fact that the MGTOW movement does exist, is a similar phenomenon to the sociologists as if a flying saucer had landed in the midst of them. Nobody seems to have any idea why it exists in the first place.

It is no secret the societal studies are completely infiltrated by Leftists and “anthropologist” is a synonym for “cultural Marxist”. The hegemony of Marxism in societal and sociological studies is so complete it requires an engineer or a natural scientist (which are notoriously both Atheistic and anti-Marxist lot) to inspect the situation deeper.
Sexuality and forming families is not about oppression or being oppressed. The various forms of relationship are products of cultural evolution, and tend to settle in a Pareto optimal balance. Humans tend to be monogamous because it is the best deal for the children. Both single parent families and harems tend to be especially destructive - single parent families socially, harems psychologically, and contribute anti-social personality tendencies.

Monogamy and nuclear family exist for the women - who usually act as the caring parent. For a woman, single parenthood is a sure-fire way to poverty, and polygamy into slavery. Both are extremely undesirable traits for women, and the former really possible only in a society where the state heavily subsidizes single parenthood. Which is an extremely undesirable situation in society in the long run.

But since woman is the producer of large gametes (reproductive cells) and humans are mammals, women’s natural trait is to extract as much from the marriage as possible. This is known as hypergamy, and it is a natural trait for women. It is because the investment of a woman on reproduction is much greater than that of men.
In terms of human interaction, marriage can be alluded to a commercial transaction. The woman sells her reproductive ability and sex and purchases livelihood and protection for the children. Both participants have their interest in this transaction. Both participants trade their freedom for the sake of their offspring.

Humans are not Elves. Humans die. Each generation must replenish itself lest the civilization collapse. This is the reason why many, if not most, Ancient civilizations have related to being single with hostility, and most civilizations have had penalties, such as bachelor tax, for singles.

Today, on behalf of men, marriage is an especially bad transaction. Men have everything to lose and nothing to gain should divorce happen. The risks simply outweigh any gains, and the likelihood of the risk fulfilling is enormous (60% of all marriages end in divorce). Moreover,getting married and being married is expensive. Less and less men simply can afford even being married, not speaking of divorce.
If we assume marriage as a transaction, the Feminist movement is there to cartellize the market value of women. That is the reason why Feminists both demonize men (to denigrate their market value) and oppose prostitution (who dump the price of sex). The idea is to extort as high price of sex as possible.

The very reason why the MGTOW movement exists in the first place is that women have outpriced themselves. The cost of getting married and the price to pay should divorce happen is simply too much. The price is too high and the risk too big.
The rational thing to do in such situation for a man is to avoid women, and especially avoid getting married like coronavirus. Since the sexual revolution went horribly right - anyone familiar with the Pareto law should have realized it will lead in a situation where 20% of men get 80% of all sex, and 1% of men get 50% of sex - there is no more stigma on being sexless, and masturbation is an easy way to satisfy sexual needs without actual sexual intercourse. “I have a functional right hand, where do I need you?” This must be the most blatant turn-off phrase any woman can hear.

Men are not stupid. They are creative, intelligent, rational, practical, clever and social, and men thrive in their own social circles - games, sports, hobbies, arts, interests, you name it. Once you remove sex from the equation, there are actually few needs for a woman to most men, if the man in question has good male friends.
MGTOW trend is not dangerous to men and to women. While some misogyny may be involved, we women really should look at the mirror - misandry among Feminists exist as well, and what is good for goose, is good for gander. I’d consider the incel phenomenon (involuntary celibacy) much more dangerous.

What the MGTOW movement is dangerous to is that it is dangerous to society and Capitalism. Society, because it leads into plummeting birth rates and endangers the society’s ability to renew itself. Capitalism, because much of consumer consumption, from cosmetics to housing, revolves around relationships and families and women relate to 80% of domestic consumption.

The big question in the end is: how much does a fish need a bicycle? Can we women get along if more and more men abandon us altogether? There are not enough alpha males for each of us, and few of us really want to submit as harem slaves either. And single parenthood can really exist only when society subsidizes it heavily - and this is paid mostly by single men. What if they go slacking? Questions without a really good answer.

She did her homework, I'm impressed, but that doesn't alleviate the fact that society is on a trainwreck to hell unless you uncouple your car and apply the brakes!

Modern society destroys men, MGTOW is like the gold in kintsugi that puts all the shattered pieces of modern man back together again.

This was a good read.

Written by a woman, but the article still satisfied my daily need for a MGTOW pill.

Thank you for sharing!

One has to be very cautious with women like her. She answered her questions in the end of her comment right in the beginning section: Shame and tax single men into relationships. Don't be foolish, there is no way women with their powerful lobby are going to establish new rules for them to balance the daily horror. Absolutely no way, because they would first have to admit their wrongdoings for the last ... century? In my humble opinion, she is just another tradcuck-chameleon.

We already do have a "Singles tax" of sorts. It just gives tax breaks to married people, therefor taxes single people higher. Claim wife and kids as dependents if she is a SAHM or low income.

Originally Posted by DangZagnut

[COLOR=#1B1F23][FONT=Roboto]
What the MGTOW movement is dangerous to is that it is dangerous to society and Capitalism. Society, because it leads into plummeting birth rates and endangers the society’s ability to renew itself. Capitalism, because much of consumer consumption, from cosmetics to housing, revolves around relationships and families and women relate to 80% of domestic consumption.

Surely this is a good thing, right? We're supposed to be "saving the planet" at all costs so men should be receiving gold stars as we're doing our part to lower consumption and thus strain on resources and the filling of landfills, right? Right?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Women can't blow untold amounts of money on useless crap, men to blame.

Originally Posted by WheelBarrow

Surely this is a good thing, right? We're supposed to be "saving the planet" at all costs so men should be receiving gold stars as we're doing our part to lower consumption and thus strain on resources and the filling of landfills, right? Right?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Women can't blow untold amounts of money on useless crap, men to blame.

I wonder what the nuclear war and atomic fallout that they create is gonna do to their initiatives and incentives on global warming? Especially considering the 100 million Fahrenheit hotspots all over the world?

Current DEFCON status:

Europe/Asia: DEFCON II (fast pace)

USA: DEFCON III (round house)

Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard

One has to be very cautious with women like her. She answered her questions in the end of her comment right in the beginning section: Shame and tax single men into relationships. Don't be foolish, there is no way women with their powerful lobby are going to establish new rules for them to balance the daily horror. Absolutely no way, because they would first have to admit their wrongdoings for the last ... century? In my humble opinion, she is just another tradcuck-chameleon.

You can't tax men who don't need to work. I can make my footprint so low that it's invisible. Everyone else here can do the same. I can survive on bread, butter and water for an eternity and a half. They can't. They will starve before us.
The only way to "fix" this is to erase us by mass murder aka getting drafted for a war.
This is why I urge all of you, if they come for you to fight, DO NOT ACCEPT. Let them go die instead.


So she starts her whole essay off talking about how MGTOW shouldn't exist under Marxist societal theory because men are the oppressors aka the patriarchy. Yet, it does. This means therefore that, according to scientific theory, the observation of MGTOW as an variable in the experiment of societal and relationship context means the alternative hypothesis must be rejected (men are the oppressors) and the null hypothesis is proven (THERE IS NO PATRIARCHY).
She's sounding the alarm, the problem is everyone else is deaf.

15 years ago, a woman in Finland wouldn't have known of MGTOW as a 'thing'.

Credit to the lads.

2023....A woman in Finland recognises MGTOW as a 'thing'.

Its got about a bit.

Originally Posted by AdTheBad

15 years ago, a woman in Finland wouldn't have known of MGTOW as a 'thing'.

Credit to the lads.

2023....A woman in Finland recognises MGTOW as a 'thing'.

Its got about a bit.

Hopefully one day MGTOW becomes a household name...ya know people asking "is he MGTOW or is he open to relationships?"

Originally Posted by Edwardhaskell

Hopefully one day MGTOW becomes a household name...ya know people asking "is he MGTOW or is he open to relationships?"

The MGTOW "Lifestyle" is well embedded now, without the name... Women are RP'ing men at an alarming rate, and men are choosing to walk away for self-preservation.

I think you will find they will try to suppress the name MGTOW as much and as long as possible to hide the fact there is a problem...

Why women in Finland would worry about how Aircraft takeoff is beyond me.

Originally Posted by RustyNuts

The MGTOW "Lifestyle" is well embedded now, without the name... Women are RP'ing men at an alarming rate, and men are choosing to walk away for self-preservation.

I think you will find they will try to suppress the name MGTOW as much and as long as possible to hide the fact there is a problem...

You're right. And as the birth rate continues to dwindle I think it's only a matter of time before it can't be hidden as a factor anymore.

Going back to my often used "thots posting on Facebook for attention" example -- over the last few months I've started noticing a few of the simpy simps waking up. When these 5s at best are posting "sexy" pics to get attention with 200+ likes -- there's now at least 1 or 2 guys in the comment sections telling the simps the truth..."she will never message you back"..."don't waste your time"..."she just likes attention", etc.

You would think simps could only simp so long before they stop being robots and wonder why all their simping doesn't get them anywhere.

MGTOW is a phenomenon which should not exist at all according to hegemonic Marxist societal theory. According to Marxism, marriage is an exploitation relationship of men over women, where women are exploited of their sex and freedom in change of livelihood and protection, and marriage is a form of slavery on woman’s vantage point and prostitution on man’s vantage point.

Hmmm Marxism is really just about dismantling traditional Christian values in Western Society and replacing them with crap which then gets replaced with more crap. Marx himself was simply seeking revenge against Christian Russians for what he felt was racial abuse against the Jewish Russians, Marx being Jewish himself.

There is no common sense or rationale with Marxism/Socialism. After decades of women's rights we now have trans athletes competing against CIS women and kicking their butts for example. It makes no sense but it causes further division in society so it serves a purpose.

Marriage is fine when you have a system where people play their part and it works out fairly. Man goes to work, earns money, wife at home, looks after kids, keeps the house, cooks dinner. I would be screamed at for being a sexist pig for even mentioning that but both parties play an equal part in creating a harmonious and mutually beneficial home and life.

What Marxists don't understand is every action has an equal and opposite reaction. With Feminism men saw that women were now giving sex away, not even a dinner date required let alone courtship, so marriage goes out the window. Women over time started to lose their femininity and men started to do "women's work", men started to cook and keep house, basically started to look after themselves and if they wanted sex that was easy enough to get.

Contrary to all the "The Future is Female" bullshit, women have basically made themselves redundant.

And many men have gone their own way. And you'll notice it is always women who are crying out for men, crying out that they can't get dates or noticed. You don't see too many articles from men lamenting the fall of womanhood and that life is miserable without a woman in their lives.

Originally Posted by Kryptic

And many men have gone their own way. And you'll notice it is always women who are crying out for men, crying out that they can't get dates or noticed. You don't see too many articles from men lamenting the fall of womanhood and that life is miserable without a woman in their lives.

You must be joking! This whole forum is absolutely full of men lamenting the "fall of womanhood".

Originally Posted by Jacko

You must be joking! This whole forum is absolutely full of men lamenting the "fall of womanhood".

I agree, by trad cucks. But trad cucks aren’t MGTOW. They’re trad cucks and just exist to push politics.