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  1. #1

    Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    Came across this article during my reading today and it shows how much it's costed to maintain the same home for 80 years. It's insane to see how cheap it was back in the day vs today.



    The article is here
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  2. #2

    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    Yep, even adjusting for inflation, the cost of living is staggering.

  3. #3

    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    What I find the most frustrating is the comments section in the websites I read where the Boomers have shitty comments about the younger generations - lazy, get a job, stop whining, we had it tough too, blah blah blah.... The odds of most of us retiring with 2 homes, a $100,000 RV, taking expensive cruises etc are slim to none. For the Boomers that seems to be the expectation.

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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    By far, the biggest increase is taxes. Lol.

    RV or bus makes way more sense on public land.

    A bus can carry ALL the tools required to fix it. A full shop onboard. Solar roof area is extremely high.

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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    I recently learned that in the UK the price of gas (as in the gas you use to heat your home) is going to increase 50%! That is because Russia supplies most of the gas to Europe and are jacking up the price. Yet the UK has natural resources sitting in the North Sea it can't drill for due to environmental concerns.

    And there lies the problem. Everything gets imported now and privatized. In the past the Govt ran the utilities and a lot of things were kept within the country, most notably - jobs which generally were able to be kept for life.

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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    I'll tell you what, though. When I was in my 20s, in the 1970s, it was announced on the radio that the average price of a home in the USA had just hit $100,000. At that age, at that point in time, that amount of money was obscene to me, and hopeless. I told my brother-in-law about it who said, "There will always be a time to buy a home." I tried to understand that, but could not in full.

    Separately, and around that time, I went over to a couple's house and was enjoying their beautiful back yard with them. Everything was so nice, inside their house and out. I couldn't imagine me affording everything in sight. I asked them how did they do it, telling them I cannot see how I could ever get myself from renting apartments to having what they have. Well, maybe I was intrusive in asking that, but I remember they looked at me nicely and said, "Don't worry, it will come." That's all they would say. I heard that as more unhelpful mysterious stuff like what my brother-in-law had said.

    I still couldn't see how steady-as-she-goes would help me in the years ahead.

    I have read of the younger generation looking at what the older generation has and, like myself back then, wondering in hopelessness how could they ever "make the jump" from what they have to what they see (older) others have. It's been said that young people overextend themselves financially to have at a younger age what it took older people a much longer time period to acquire and this is because these younger people cannot factor in the passing of time, unable to envision that the older generation was not always "wealthy". A ton of humble beginnings are apparently lost to history. Young people look around at the affluence and what they see now, they want now. Perceived as not wanting to wait for the "betters days" ahead for all of us, these new young people are noticed by the developers and banks who line up to sell to these people a standard of living unavailable when the older generation was young. Houses are larger than they used to be, garages are several, bonus rooms, play rooms, mud rooms, etc. My parents and us six kids lived in a 880 sf home, 1 bathroom. After the oldest kids moved out, then yeah they bought a house that gave us all some breathing room. Built in 1912, my parents converted the sitting room into their bedroom so that we now had 3 bedrooms upstairs. I slept in the humbly-finished basement.

    If the internet has spread any negative opinions from the Boomers about the younger generation, this is regrettable especially if it replaces the positive hope that has always been there for each of us who acknowledge the benefit of time. And, with saying that, do I not sound just like my brother-in-law and that couple whom I mentioned? I am now the older generation who once spoke to me with their riddles. LOL
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    Quote Originally Posted by Unboxxed View Post
    I'll tell you what, though. When I was in my 20s, in the 1970s, it was announced on the radio that the average price of a home in the USA had just hit $100,000. At that age, at that point in time, that amount of money was obscene to me, and hopeless. I told my brother-in-law about it who said, "There will always be a time to buy a home." I tried to understand that, but could not in full.

    Separately, and around that time, I went over to a couple's house and was enjoying their beautiful back yard with them. Everything was so nice, inside their house and out. I couldn't imagine me affording everything in sight. I asked them how did they do it, telling them I cannot see how I could ever get myself from renting apartments to having what they have. Well, maybe I was intrusive in asking that, but I remember they looked at me nicely and said, "Don't worry, it will come." That's all they would say. I heard that as more unhelpful mysterious stuff like what my brother-in-law had said.

    I still couldn't see how steady-as-she-goes would help me in the years ahead.

    I have read of the younger generation looking at what the older generation has and, like myself back then, wondering in hopelessness how could they ever "make the jump" from what they have to what they see (older) others have. It's been said that young people overextend themselves financially to have at a younger age what it took older people a much longer time period to acquire and this is because these younger people cannot factor in the passing of time, unable to envision that the older generation was not always "wealthy". A ton of humble beginnings are apparently lost to history. Young people look around at the affluence and what they see now, they want now. Perceived as not wanting to wait for the "betters days" ahead for all of us, these new young people are noticed by the developers and banks who line up to sell to these people a standard of living unavailable when the older generation was young. Houses are larger than they used to be, garages are several, bonus rooms, play rooms, mud rooms, etc. My parents and us six kids lived in a 880 sf home, 1 bathroom. After the oldest kids moved out, then yeah they bought a house that gave us all some breathing room. Built in 1912, my parents converted the sitting room into their bedroom so that we now had 3 bedrooms upstairs. I slept in the humbly-finished basement.

    If the internet has spread any negative opinions from the Boomers about the younger generation, this is regrettable especially if it replaces the positive hope that has always been there for each of us who acknowledge the benefit of time. And, with saying that, do I not sound just like my brother-in-law and that couple whom I mentioned? I am now the older generation who once spoke to me with their riddles. LOL
    People back then did without things. Going overseas wasn't as common as it is now. It was a big deal, now it is a birthright. These trips cost money.
    Kids wore hand me down clothes. Now they get designer wear, even babies get designer clothes!
    People would not buy $5 plus fancy coffee's they would make instant at work and even at home.
    They wouldn't have as many gadgets and continuously update them like they do now.

    Back then not as many people went to college as they do now and racked up huge student loans. Another reason for young people doing it tough now.

    I know things are tough I do get that but in Australia in the 80's interest rates were huge around 20% or more. So the older generations had their own problems.

  8. #8

    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    That's a very well thought out post and I can appreciate the points you make - especially how younger people need to understand that you won't make $100k your first year out of college and homes cost a lot of money. I think where my resentment lies, is how the Boomer generation strip mined the wealth from the US. I found a Fed chart that showed that, and if I can find it again I will post it. The 80's and 90's (Boomers prime career years) were a period of great optimism - Reagan did the whole go USA thing while beginning the process of our manufacturing going overseas. Tremendous profits were made, and the Boomers enjoyed the fruits of that transition. Now they are retiring, leaving an empty shell of a national economy for their kids and grandkids.

    What "hope" for the "better days" does a 22 year old college grad have?? Place yourself in their shoes - lots of competition from around the world for their jobs, the price of a home is 10X your annual income, and you have to overbid for a home if you want to get it. So you get to pay $1,500 a month for rent, while paying on student loans for a very overpriced education (again, Boomers could work a part time job through college and have no debt when they graduated). Anyone with half a brain knows that the economy in the US, and pretty much all around the globe is going to take a giant shit one of these days.

    Edit: Add on top of that they also are having to choose between taking a Mrna shot or not be able to finish school or be employed. And if they do get that first decent job out of college they have to endure racist behavior against them if they are a certain shade (think white male). Much much different than the environment in the 80's and 90's my friend.


    I'd like for you to compare the situations of Boomers in their 20's to the current people in their 20's and think if that advice is timeless.
    Last edited by 2_Time_Loser; January 9, 2022 at 8:06 PM.

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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptic View Post
    People back then did without things. Going overseas wasn't as common as it is now. It was a big deal, now it is a birthright. These trips cost money.
    Kids wore hand me down clothes. Now they get designer wear, even babies get designer clothes!
    People would not buy $5 plus fancy coffee's they would make instant at work and even at home.
    They wouldn't have as many gadgets and continuously update them like they do now.

    Back then not as many people went to college as they do now and racked up huge student loans. Another reason for young people doing it tough now.

    I know things are tough I do get that but in Australia in the 80's interest rates were huge around 20% or more. So the older generations had their own problems.
    These are all great points. When I bought my first home in 1982 the interest rate was 17%. I had $5000 to my name. I found a seller who agreed to finance at 13.5% on a 7-year balloon. I went for it even though I swore I would never do a balloon mortgage. I gambled that the economy (and my income) would improve such that I could refinance before the seven years was out. Good gamble, I was out from under him after five years.

    As an aside, the seller buried in his proposed contract that he would have approval rights if I refinanced. I realized that that meant he could simply say No to any reason I might refinance, allowing him to seize my home after the seven years. What a snake. I insisted that restriction be removed or no deal. It was removed. Ya gotta read everything.

    In high school, if our class traveled to the nearby town for the day, it was a big deal. Forget about foreign travel!

    I never see anybody carrying to work a thermos full of coffee, so ubiquitous when I was younger.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    I believe if you want to buy a house, live with your parents rent free until you can buy it in one lump sum rather than worrying about being able to make a $1,800 mortgage every month on top of all other things that comes with owning property. I'm doing this. For 7 years, I have been saving money I don't spend each month of my SSI benefits so my best friend and I can share a place out here.
    It's a man's world and we need to take it by the throat and make it give us what we desire.

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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    When I bought my run down house the only thing that needed evictions were the mice, ants, and termites. It took getting rid of most of the house's lumber to evict them, and there I was with a floor and three walls for a fresh start, no roof, no basement, they came later! I did almost everything out-of-pocket and it took about 6 years before I moved in, and yes, I was living back with my parents just down the road while I refurbished it.

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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    When I bought my run down house the only thing that needed evictions were the mice, ants, and termites. It took getting rid of most of the house's lumber to evict them, and there I was with a floor and three walls for a fresh start, no roof, no basement, they came later! I did almost everything out-of-pocket and it took about 6 years before I moved in, and yes, I was living back with my parents just down the road while I refurbished it.
    Is this the same MGTOWER?

    I am so used to your prosaic style, this threw me off.

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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    Quote Originally Posted by HK 95 View Post
    Is this the same MGTOWER?

    I am so used to your prosaic style, this threw me off.
    I'm panthinksual!

  14. #14

    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    There's houses near me that are $40k that need a bit of a fix up, and half of them were just foreclosures that someone put a new kitchen in and flipped.

    You do know when "boomers" (who don't exist, they're all in their 70s), which now means anyone over the age of 25, are told they're claiming they have multiple homes and RVs, all that shit, at best, is massive debt right?

    It's like a woman with a PhD and $200k in student loans. What's she really worth?

    Getting expensive mortgages in older age is easy. Many have a high credits score and assets enough to get a loan. Just like many did in 2008 and we saw how that went.

    Most boomers are poor and struggling. Prices go up for anyone.

    And if one is going to bitch about jobs, remember how everyone worshipped letting all the blacks and women and minorities and immigrants on H1B visas and all that? Well, salaries don't rise.

    But anyone still trying to live on ONE income stream is a dope. You don't get wealthy on just one income stream. Smart people have multiple income streams.

    The reason "boomers" think a lot of zoomers are lazy, is because their primary exposure is reddit and 4-chan, which is primarily filled with mental patients, losers on welfare, and CCP ant-american propaganda.

    I wouldn't put too much stake on what online people say about anything.

    I don't know who all these wealthy boomers are. All the ones I know are getting by on social security and barely own anything.

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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    Back then: Smaller government, fewer regulations, lower taxes.

    Right now: Huge government, smothering regulations, repressive taxes.

    Elections have consequences.

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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    Quote Originally Posted by 2_Time_Loser View Post
    I'd like for you to compare the situations of Boomers in their 20's to the current people in their 20's and think if that advice is timeless.
    My first reaction is to infer that you believe it is not timeless. It doesn't help that I'd do a piss-poor job of the comparison you are asking. I can only intellectualize how tough it is today, just as people today can only intellectualize how tough it was back then. How do we measure the stressors of each generation, quantifying them, adjusting for inflation, to see how much more rough it was then, or is now? Then, too, is it necessary or productive to see who had it tougher? Are we really only trying to defend our bitching rights? And what does that say about us? To what extent do we enjoy our lives being stuck?

    I am going to stick my neck out here with the voice of age to say that, to whatever extent the Boomers strip-mined the wealth from the USA, it is not the only time that such a thing has happened and is not anything upon which to decide your fate. Every article ever written had a point to make but always overlooks other points to keep in mind, because these authors are not considering that there are people like you (and me, then) who are taking their words to heart, getting resentful and paralyzing ourselves in the process.

    When I was in my early 20s (the 1970s), I went to some type of financial-planning seminar put on by the Kemper people. I was the youngest person in the room, the only one who did not have silver hair.

    It became clear after a bit that this meeting was all about getting at money from the older people. Talking in terms of investing $100,000. It was not about helping a young person like me to have a plan. I got so mad. As I left, my take on it was, "While other people my age are spending their Friday nights partying, here I am on this Friday night at this meeting trying to help myself be ahead of my peers and what do I see? I see the fucking Kemper Cavalry (their TV ads of the time) galloping right over me to get at the people who have $100,000! Aren't I doing my part to even try to help myself? What about helping me?"

    Of course, I said this to no one but myself, on the drive home. Years later, I saw my misguided expectations of that meeting, though my heart was in the right place. I felt ignored. I needed guidance even on where to begin.

    I had anger and resentment. I'm glad there was no internet to bring to me articles about all of the then-abhorrent economic injustices or I might have driven myself down further.


    What "hope" for the "better days" does a 22 year old college grad have?? Place yourself in their shoes - lots of competition from around the world for their jobs, the price of a home is 10X your annual income, and you have to overbid for a home if you want to get it. So you get to pay $1,500 a month for rent, while paying on student loans for a very overpriced education (again, Boomers could work a part time job through college and have no debt when they graduated). Anyone with half a brain knows that the economy in the US, and pretty much all around the globe is going to take a giant shit one of these days.
    I went the blue-collar route. I can't know how I'd have fared as a college grad. But, is it really fair to imply that every college grad faces every obstacle that you listed, and always and only simultaneously? I don't think so. Aren't you itemizing the worst of everything all into a compact paragraph as if it is true for everyone? Then how is anybody ever getting a job?

    Everybody competing for jobs is in that competition so is it unfair that you are in the competition same as everyone else? Is that how you see it? Have others made things unfair for you?

    Wherever you go in geography, rentals and homes are market rate. If you could time travel, you would find that rentals and homes are always market rate.

    I did find, in my life and in the lives of my siblings, that being mobile was very helpful in building one's empire. I see many people, of any age, who seem like they cannot relocate from where they grew up, or from a place they have grown to like, even if the work is elsewhere, even if a better cost of living is elsewhere. If there are multiple overbids for housing in an area, that is because too many people want to be in the same spot at the same time. Do you have choice in this? I certainly cannot move to New York City and expect to make ends meet. There are many geographic places in which I cannot afford to live. So, those places do not get me down. If I had stayed in the town in which I graduated high school, I often wonder where would I be financially. In that town at that time, many expenses were in terms of hundreds of dollars. I moved to a bigger city where many expenses were in terms of thousands of dollars. I have since moved to another large city where some expenses all these years later cost near ten-thousand dollars. Sheesh, add a zero every time I move! If I ever leave Seattle, sell my home, I could not afford to ever come back.

    I lived in Phoenix 1982-1995. That first home I bought was your basic John F. Long tract home, well known in Phoenix, (I call him John F. Lawnchair). The windows were aluminum frame attached with screwdrivers. Sometimes you could hear your neighbor's phone ring with your windows closed. Paid $58k. I sold it in 1995 for only $67k. A flat market, nobody in Seattle believes me. I made no money there. I arrived in Seattle with $50k to my name. So, I was newly renting until I could figure out if/where to buy a home. A commercial came on TV about a tax increase and it happened to mention that the average price of a home in Seattle was $150k. I about shit. A hundred and fifty thousand? Where am I going to get that kind of money? They might as well have said 1 million, it was all big money to me. I became angry, at no one in particular, but angry at my situation.

    I was complaining to a coworker who unknowingly said something that unlocked my anger:

    "Well, you can do what everyone else is doing and just dive in." A large mortgage, he meant.

    I thought, yes, of course, I am the one with the money (long-term job) and the banks are the ones who want my money. So, I did just that. I never told him how his flip remark unlocked my paralysis as I didn't want him to feel somehow responsible for my financial decisions. Bought my second home at age 39, penciling out in the new economics as if I had never owned a home at age 25.

    Nobody ever shared details with me when I needed them of how they came up to where they are so that is why I share a few of them here, if it sounds like I am oversharing.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
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    There are 10 types of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

    Suitable for bookmarking: www.fakehatecrimes.org and www.breitbart.com/tag/hate-crime-hoax

  17. #17

    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    water is wet

  18. #18

    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    Quote Originally Posted by kru-kut View Post
    Back then: Smaller government, fewer regulations, lower taxes.

    Right now: Huge government, smothering regulations, repressive taxes.

    Elections have consequences.
    I agree, although both parties are "progressive" and pro-Big Govt.

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    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    I'd like for you to compare the situations of Boomers in their 20's to the current people in their 20's and think if that advice is timeless.
    Okay I'll give it a shot. In 1974 I was 18yrs old. Never went to college. Just striaght to work. At the time I cleared $200 a week from my full-time job. $9600 a year take home after tax. I lived with my parents. At 23yrs old I purchased my first home for $98000 or 10x my income. I had a tiny down payment. Had to pay PMI insurance because of that.

    Home was older, and on a slightly sketchy side of town. As I found out later my next-door neighbor's kid was the area cocaine dealer. However, the home was a 2 unit. The rent helped pay the mortgage. In essence I had a roommate of sorts. They just did not reside in my unit.

    In addition to a job, I always had a side hustle too. I also switched jobs when I would find something better. I also had 1216-hour workdays between my side hustle and regular job.

    What didn't I have? The internet which would give me access to the world to make money. (I did do that later in life) There was no Bitcoin opportunity. I couldn't be a content creator for the web and get paid on a web platform. I was not sharp enough to learn about the stock market, but I could have. So can people today.

    The idea that the economy can shit can at any moment is true. It would screw me and a young person just the same. Yet I still hustle as much as my senior body will allow. I went tough several recessions, 17% home mortgages, oil crisis with no gasoline unless you got in line.

    The people who went to college, racked up debt, and now face worldwide competitors for those jobs. Might have to make a tough decision. The realization that they may well need to do something they did not train for.

    The gold to be made today appears to be in the trades for one. The last interior house painter I hired wanted $45.00 an hour. This was 3 weeks ago. If I were young again, I would darn well own a ladder, brushes, drop cloths and business cards. Yep, it's not the STEM job I went to school for. That would suck. It also would not prevent me from earning while I kept digging to find a spot in my trained for area.

    I'll go with one more. It's $55.00 to clear snow from a driveway and do the walk in my area. IF you can find someone. I would sure get two or three done after work on those days it snowed if I were a young buck. Might even drop my gym membership. The workout would handle itself.

    I doubt you could ever convince me that 85% of making a buck, even today, is about attitude. Start out in your mind as victim of the times. Remain a victim. Those folks with the student loans, who are young and healthy, should be bustin ass all day long. Using the cash to get that loan off their back. Spending the bulk of their time while they work to figure out a way to get to the next level of earning. The folks with no student loan really have zero excuse in my book.

    I've worked with millennials. The one's who put in their 8hrs or less and went home. Versus the ones who second jobbed or side hustled with 12-16 hours of work, was obvious. Those who bust ass while young, did way better than those who did not.

    Bust ass while you are young. Do better much quicker than most others your age. It's still time-honored, indisputable, true advice.
    No matter what goes on today.
    "People are always angry at anyone who chooses very individual standards for his life; because of the extraordinary treatment which that man grants to himself, they feel degraded, like ordinary beings."
    - Nietzsche


  20. #20

    Re: Interesting article about the cost of maintaining a home

    A few things I would like to add onto this discussion:

    Purchasing/owning a home in America, has always or usually been "challenging," at least since people started to buy homes from developers, or a previous owner, rather than build their own. There may be a few exceptions to this, most notably in the 1950s-1960s when suburban home development went full tilt, and inventory more or less caught up with demand.

    But, interestingly, just -what- the challenge is has changed over time:

    a) need for 20% downpayment--this problem was reduced by the FHA (enacted in the 1930s), which provides loans to serve as downpayment.

    b) high interest rates--this existed from the late 1970s into the 2000s, but with "quantitative easing" (yeah, I know...), now interests rates are 3% at most; so this particular problem isn't a problem anymore

    c) need to show income/savings to buy home--in the 1990s, under Clinton, this was eased to the point of ridiculousness, where you practically didn't have to show income; or a meager income could qualify you for a house that previously you could not afford. After "the great recession" and the housing bust, it's my understanding that it's now kinda tough to qualify (again).

    d) high home prices (and relatedly, low inventory)--this is the problem that we have now.

    But the basic point is: purchasing a home has always been a challenge, but for different reasons, depending on the time frame.

    Second major point, which the chart shows: the taxes. This has grown exponentially, and is the reason that a lot of elderly widows are selling their homes to live in RVs. This is a multi-causal phenomenon, and yes, the growing size of the govt (state and local levels in this case) is a big part of the problem, but may not be (arguably) the major part of the problem.

    The major part of the problem of increasing state/local taxes on homes is a) people's desire to live in larger homes. The home in the article was 1,677 sq ft--no family, esp. no wife or woman, is going to think that that's acceptable living space these days.

    Added on to this is the growing/increasing market evaluations of homes, which obviously leads to higher taxes. For example, take a 2,000 sq ft home that was built in the 1960s and sold for 30-40k. That same home, if it was maintained, is now worth 300k, maybe even 400k, depending. Even in neighborhoods where the surrounding area has gone downhill, the family homes, if they have been maintained, will still be in this higher price range.

    If the market evaluation of the home has gone up exponentially, then so will the taxes. Of course, there are things like the homestead exemption and the elderly exemption that can help, and they do help a lot, but people who aren't 65-plus don't benefit from the elderly exemption, and the homestead exemption only does so much.

    So basically what we need are some types of better and more effective caps on state and local taxation of homes. But then the school/hospital/city/drainage districts will scream bloody murder, and so we come back to the basic problem: Americans do desire bigger govt. That is the basic problem.

    So maybe desire for Big Govt, in the form of people's unwillingness to cut it back, is the major problem. But the desire for bigger houses is part of the problem too.


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