Thread: Infighting in the Left

Originally Posted by mgtower

No mention of the thousands of surrendered SS troops we sent to our own extermination camp to be processed, not a word, hush hush...

The left operates like that: the National Socialists were only defending their freedom against the Communist threat and the Communists spread disinformation to make the National Socialists look bad.

The number of people executed in the holocaust was actually only 600,000, and those were all Communists that committed terrorist attacks.

The Communists were the real evil because they were responsible for the Holodomor that killed 7.5 million people in Ukraine.

The Holodomor was a mass famine deliberately caused by Stalin when he cut off Russian food supplies to Ukraine and ordered bombers to drop bombs containing toxic waste on Ukrainian farms and ranches to kill the crops, kill the livestock, and poison the soil so that it could not be reused for agriculture.

Originally Posted by N567

No, there should be laws but they should not violate human rights such as the political correctness laws that violate freedom of speech and freedom of the press and the gun control laws that violate the right to bear arms.

So, there are other things within religion that you agree with? Yes/No?

Originally Posted by N567

The number of people executed in the holocaust was actually only 600,000, and those were all Communists that committed terrorist attacks.

The Communists were the real evil because they were responsible for the Holodomor that killed 7.5 million people in Ukraine.

The Holodomor was a mass famine deliberately caused by Stalin when he cut off Russian food supplies to Ukraine and ordered bombers to drop bombs containing toxic waste on Ukrainian farms and ranches to kill the crops, kill the livestock, and poison the soil so that it could not be reused for agriculture.

References please. No disrespect intended, I'm genuinely interested.

Originally Posted by mgtower

No mention of the thousands of surrendered SS troops we sent to our own extermination camp to be processed, not a word, hush hush...

Very good point. In wars shit happens. Neither side is completely innocent.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Very good point. In wars shit happens. Neither side is completely innocent.

Who knows? If Hitler was MGTOW, he may not have contracted sylphs, loosing his mind and initiating the final solution. Bad pussy has long lasting and far reaching effects! In the 1930's he was behind the autobahn and the people's car (VW) with Porsche, along with public events celebrating aviation with glider events and a strong education system, he brought Germany out from under the cloak of financial tyranny from WW1's treaty of Versailles, forcing reoperations for the war.

Meanwhile, Stalin was executing all his top men in aviation and their designs far ahead of their time! By WWII all the brilliant designers were deceased or exiled. Had he not been so paranoid, Russia would have had the technological means to defeat Germany at their own game of blitzkrieg.

Originally Posted by happybachelor

There is no Right or Left. You can't define it. No one falls neatly into one category. The Right and Left is a false paradigm designed for one reason.. to keep unaware people asleep and keep endless groups fighting one another.

I've come across many people who believe they are of the 'Left', and wage war against the 'Right' all their lives. With proper analysis one can see they more closely align with someone of a 'Right' mindset. Just more evidence the whole idea is nonsense.

You could not define the Left or Right, or a person in either group. As soon as you do I will point out a number of contradictions. It's never been done, because it cannot be done. Because it's rubbish.

It's perfect for the creators of this propaganda bullshit because with us all fighting each other we'll never unite against our common enemy.

Painful for the ones who see it though.

"The parting on the left is now the parting on the right". Won't get fooled again is more timely than ever. I'm from the hippie generation. We were non-conformists. We wanted and got the right to vote at 18. We got the draft overhauled, but we were still required to register. And while we were burning our draft cards in the bonfire at the beach, the women were burning their bras and going topless for women's rights. Now, if you look at a woman's tits it's considered obscene or something. Is that the left or the right that talks about objectifying women? I can't tell anymore.

Biden and his cronies think that if they criminalize gun ownership it will solve someone's problems...fat chance! If Americans are denied the right to bear arms, how long before voting is made illegal unless you belong to the correct party? Americans have discussed third party candidates for decades. Now there's talk about doing away with the GOP. Lincoln was a Republican. Are we going to tear down his statue, too? The American news media has always been a bunch of propagandists. Now that propaganda has turned into a dangerous narrative. VAWA is nothing more than Jim Crowe laws for men. And it's only begun.

Originally Posted by mgtower

Who knows? If Hitler was MGTOW, he may not have contracted sylphs, loosing his mind and initiating the final solution. Bad pussy has long lasting and far reaching effects! In the 1930's he was behind the autobahn and the people's car (VW) with Porsche, along with public events celebrating aviation with glider events and a strong education system, he brought Germany out from under the cloak of financial tyranny from WW1's treaty of Versailles, forcing reoperations for the war.

Meanwhile, Stalin was executing all his top men in aviation and their designs far ahead of their time! By WWII all the brilliant designers were deceased or exiled. Had he not been so paranoid, Russia would have had the technological means to defeat Germany at their own game of blitzkrieg.

This is what people don't understand. Hitler did a lot of great things for Germany. I was going to say "for his country", but it wasn't his country was it!

But he kinda messed it up a bit (just a little) by trying to take over the world. Yeah, he may have had some good ideas but he really fucked it up royally when it came down to things.

Heil Shitler!

Originally Posted by Joetech

"The parting on the left is now the parting on the right". Won't get fooled again is more timely than ever. I'm from the hippie generation. We were non-conformists. We wanted and got the right to vote at 18. We got the draft overhauled, but we were still required to register. And while we were burning our draft cards in the bonfire at the beach, the women were burning their bras and going topless for women's rights. Now, if you look at a woman's tits it's considered obscene or something. Is that the left or the right that talks about objectifying women? I can't tell anymore.

Biden and his cronies think that if they criminalize gun ownership it will solve someone's problems...fat chance! If Americans are denied the right to bear arms, how long before voting is made illegal unless you belong to the correct party? Americans have discussed third party candidates for decades. Now there's talk about doing away with the GOP. Lincoln was a Republican. Are we going to tear down his statue, too? The American news media has always been a bunch of propagandists. Now that propaganda has turned into a dangerous narrative. VAWA is nothing more than Jim Crowe laws for men. And it's only begun.

I wonder how many more Waco's and Ruby Ridge events will unfold? Being 14 years old and shot in the back by a government agent, is as far away from the 2nd amendment as it gets, that was on Janet Reno's watch, and Waco was a pissing match between a private citizen and the FBI.

Federal agents killing state citizens, it doesn't get more inverted than that! With the end of the filibuster, federal takeover of state election boards via regulation, opening of the border, adding Porto Rico as a state, and enlarging the Supreme Court with leftist radicals will spell the end of independent sovereignty of states and the citizens of those states.

Civil breakdown and the resulting martial law is the kind of power that serves them best. We are at the twilight's last gleaming, the darkness is afoot, and the journey long with much suffering.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

References please. No disrespect intended, I'm genuinely interested.

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
https://www.returnofkings.com/51110/...axis-rebellion
https://www.returnofkings.com/58601/...s-are-fascists

Originally Posted by Jackoff

This is obviously true, but that wasn't really the question. The question was about what really happened during WWII. All you can do is listen to all sides and try to come to a reasonable theory, but since all one can do is read the theories of others which are heavily laden with bias one way or the other it's difficult, nay impossible, to know the whole truth.

Even if we were there, which we weren't, but even if we were we would only get a tiny snapshot of what it was really like.

Not just listening to all sides, you also spend time connecting other events and observations. And not just present events, but also the past. I will look at Germany before ww2, maybe from few centuries ago from any sources I can get. And not just Germany but the Europeans in general.

And then I will also lookup about the "other side". Their past actions, and their present actions. And then I will put all that together ALONG with whatever any side is saying.

It takes time to do that, it takes a HELL LOT of time to do that. And its also possible that I may have missed some sources or some observations or FAILED to connect some fact. I am not the smartest person alive and even the smartest cannot necessarily guarantee that they have looked at everything and thought about everything.

And based on that I do come to some conclusions, which favor one side over the other. And the conclusions happen to run against the current narrative. Anyone is welcome to provide me evidence or query how I connected some evidence or how do I explain some evidence based on what I believe. But if someone just comes to me and tells me that I am believing one propaganda over another, then I will simply ignore that opinion.

And I will ignore because I have to. If war comes to my door, I will have to pick sides. I am sorry, survival comes before morals. I'd like to know who my friends are and will stand with me in a fight and not backstab me at the first opportunity. Yes, both sides commit atrocities in war, I dont deny it. All I say is, sometimes it becomes a necessity.

Inaction or ignorance is not the choice I want to make. A quote from Leon Trotsky (yes, that guy) :

You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.

Originally Posted by happybachelor

Accumulation of evidence, reason, perception. I would say you will have to read some banned books or 'hateful' authors to reach the truth. Of course I am aware that I cannot convince anyone that I am in possession of the truth. It has to been seen and felt by the seeker. Once you truly feel the truth, there is no confusion any more. No doubt. No need for so many un answerable questions. Of course most people will consider me deluded and just wrong, but I am in good company then (see above). Were they all wrong, too?
Socialism, communism... these are just words. Used to dumfound the masses. Yes, communism is basically the means by which the ruling class enslave us. You have to look beyond these things to see what's really happening.
No one can be told the truth. You have to go and find it. And if after genuine enquiry over time, you can't see it, then it's kind of like "I can't help you son".
If you spent a year understanding what happened in the Russian 'revolution', and subsequent events in Europe, studying the you know whos.. you would not fail to put 2 and 2 together.
PS there's a quote I like by a famous Rabbi. "Communism is Judaism". A Rabbi said that. And I'm the racist, the deluded one??
PPS it's actually much easier than lots of study - that just confirms it. Simply look at who is disproportionally at the reins of most companies, countries. I think Biden's cabinet is about 75% of them. Something like a 3600% overrepresentation given the US demographics. They own virtually all the biggest companies in the world and control the media worldwide. So you see there's no need to ask how I know what the truth is, it's staring you in the face!!!

Even without reading banned or 'hateful' content, you can arrive at some pretty good conclusions. One can read about prosperity of Germany, from the later times of Holy Roman Empire to the times when it was called Prussia.

Then one can also read about the history of "you know who" group of people. Their practices, the "prosperity" of their civilization, if any...

Point is, the success of civilization happens because of reasons. Not every group succeeds, and certainly very few in history could match the brilliance the Germany was. If I have to count from recent history, I'll say Victorian England and then USA upto some decades ago.

Originally Posted by rkspsm

Not just listening to all sides, you also spend time connecting other events and observations. And not just present events, but also the past.
...
And then I will also lookup about the "other side". Their past actions, and their present actions. And then I will put all that together ALONG with whatever any side is saying.
...
And based on that I do come to some conclusions, which favor one side over the other.

Yes indeed. As do all seekers of truth. My only complaint, if you wish to call it that, is what are the sources you utilise? If all of them are steeped in bias in one form or another whether it be pro Axis or pro Ally, is it possible to ascertain the truth?

You are right, if interested we form conclusions based on the information at hand. My point is that ALL the information is skewed including that about pre-WWII. The best we can do is form an opinion, this is not the same as knowing the truth, or the facts.

Originally Posted by N567

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
https://www.returnofkings.com/51110/...axis-rebellion
https://www.returnofkings.com/58601/...s-are-fascists

Hmm. ROK as a source of information? I'm not saying that I disagree, but it's hardly an unbiased source on which to build a solid opinion.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Yes indeed. As do all seekers of truth. My only complaint, if you wish to call it that, is what are the sources you utilise? If all of them are steeped in bias in one form or another whether it be pro Axis or pro Ally, is it possible to ascertain the truth?

You are right, if interested we form conclusions based on the information at hand. My point is that ALL the information is skewed. The best we can do is form an opinion, this is not the same as knowing the truth, or the facts.

Ok to answer your complaint, which is genuine, I have to go into a bit of probability and math. But before I do that, I agree, much more strongly than you, that truth cannot be known. What I am interested is to get as close to it as possible.

With that said, the one trick to defeat bias is I look at things which are less likely to be biased from the main subject. Lets for example take WW2. All sources which say about it are likely to be biased in RELATION to ww2. But what about things which are NOT related to ww2 ? What about things that happened decades or centuries before ww2 ?

Yes they are also likely to be biased but not because of ww2, but for some other reasons relevant to topic at hand. Eg. I can go read about Napolean and its wars with HRE (Holy Roman Empire). I can also go read about the conflict between Newton and Liebniz on who invented calculus. All that may look extremely random but if I somehow can connect some information from those sources to ww2, then what I achieved, technically is randomized the bias uniformly.

And from uniformly I mean roughly, Uniform Distribution. And the mathy part behind it is, all kinds of deviations from the truth are equally likely. In contrived terms... if 0 is the correct answer, then +5 and -5 are equally likely. Then all I have to do is to add together all the sources. And again, just like in math, if you add a large number of observations from Uniform Distribution, you can determine the mean point. The accuracy increases by increasing the number of observations.

Originally Posted by rkspsm

Ok to answer your complaint, which is genuine, I have to go into a bit of probability and math. But before I do that, I agree, much more strongly than you, that truth cannot be known. What I am interested is to get as close to it as possible.

With that said, the one trick to defeat bias is I look at things which are less likely to be biased from the main subject. Lets for example take WW2. All sources which say about it are likely to be biased in RELATION to ww2. But what about things which are NOT related to ww2 ? What about things that happened decades or centuries before ww2 ?

Yes they are also likely to be biased but not because of ww2, but for some other reasons relevant to topic at hand. Eg. I can go read about Napolean and its wars with HRE (Holy Roman Empire). I can also go read about the conflict between Newton and Liebniz on who invented calculus. All that may look extremely random but if I somehow can connect some information from those sources to ww2, then what I achieved, technically is randomized the bias uniformly.

And from uniformly I mean roughly, Uniform Distribution. And the mathy part behind it is, all kinds of deviations from the truth are equally likely. In contrived terms... if 0 is the correct answer, then +5 and -5 are equally likely. Then all I have to do is to add together all the sources. And again, just like in math, if you add a large number of observations from Uniform Distribution, you can determine the mean point. The accuracy increases by increasing the number of observations.

If I understand you right this is trying to describe the process of reason. Fair enough. Whether we know it or not we all utilise such methods for our private beliefs no matter what we espouse to others.

But...

Whilst the utilisation of scientific method, consciously or otherwise, can lead us to conclusions, they cannot take into account human frailties, at least not with any degree of accuracy. People do shit for reasons known only to them, sometimes not even then. Often we act on impulse. Whilst scientific method may compensate for this in the long term it shouldn't be used to try to extrapolate individual actions.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Often we act on impulse. Whilst scientific method may compensate for this in the long term it shouldn't be used to try to extrapolate individual actions.

Totally agree. You basically said yourself the chief reason why I disagree with one thing you say often.

And that is, the assumption that people are good or moral. I only know how to apply scientific methods, which is why I cannot account for any short term or immediate/impulsive behavior of the people around me. So if I dont know someone, I will simply assume that the person is dangerous to me and I will be defensive.

If I turn out to be wrong, well no harm done to that person, I didnt go out and attack him or anything. But if I turn out to be right...

Originally Posted by rkspsm

Totally agree. You basically said yourself the chief reason why I disagree with one thing you say often.

And that is, the assumption that people are good or moral.

Woah, I never stated this. I don't assume that people are either good or moral. What I have said is, in my experience, that people in general tend to be pretty decent for the most part. But this opinion, and I realise it's only an opinion, is born out of experience. I've also come across some complete and utter cunts!

I try not to assume, but I also realise that it's in my nature to try to look at the whole picture which sometimes leaves me vulnerable. I don't see this as major problem though, I may be fooled for a while but sooner or later I'll figure it out.

And in the meantime, whilst I'm trying to figure it out, I have rules. Not the rules that society wishes to impose but rules of my own. Chief amongst them - don't let myself be conned - whether it be for money or action. ALWAYS suspect someone that's trying to get you to do ANYTHING no matter how well or for how long you've known them.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Woah, I never stated this. I don't assume that people are either good or moral. What I have said is, in my experience, that people in general tend to be pretty decent for the most part. But this opinion, and I realise it's only an opinion, is born out of experience. I've also come across some complete and utter cunts! I try not to assume, but I also realise that it's in my nature to try to look at the whole picture which sometimes leaves me vulnerable. I don't see this as major problem though, I may be fooled for a while but sooner or later I'll figure it out.

And in the meantime, whilst I'm trying to figure it out, I have rules. Not the rules that society wishes to impose but rules of my own. Chief amongst them - don't let myself be conned - whether it be for money or action. ALWAYS suspect someone that's trying to get you to do ANYTHING no matter how well or for how long you've known them.

Well I think our experiences differ purely because of the difference in society we live. Where I live, I'll say I find more cunts than decent people. And that is not just my opinion but pretty much everyone around me. Including cunts themselves.... they are cunts to each other too !!

Regarding getting me to do anything, I'll agree as long as the person telling me to do it, is willing to answer my (flood) of questions. But if they fail or worse use any form of "emotionalism" with it, I will not only suspect them but call them out bluntly as liars/hypocrites/fake/whatever that fits the situation. They pass the test, answer my questions and not resort to any drama, I'll agree as soon as I am convinced that I have thought of all the angles and it is superior to not doing it.

And guess who fails the test most often.... those with an axe wound between their legs !

That's why you know Lefties are stupid, they have almost everything completely backwards. They believe in the opposite of reality, which is really what the media programs them with.
It's like that racist trope, that America is such a racist country. Actually America, or any developed country, is automatically one of the least racist places in the world. Because we have laws and social pressure to not be racist. And anyone can prosper if they want to. Blacks or whoever not doing as well as whites is not evidence of racism - unless you're a retard! It is much easier to cry racist or pollutist etc than look at the facts (again Lefties take their opinions directly from the vile media which does it on purpose to foment hatred).

Originally Posted by happybachelor

That's why you know Lefties are stupid, they have almost everything completely backwards. They believe in the opposite of reality, which is really what the media programs them with.
It's like that racist trope, that America is such a racist country. Actually America, or any developed country, is automatically one of the least racist places in the world. Because we have laws and social pressure to not be racist. And anyone can prosper if they want to. Blacks or whoever not doing as well as whites is not evidence of racism - unless you're a retard! It is much easier to cry racist or pollutist etc than look at the facts (again Lefties take their opinions directly from the vile media which does it on purpose to foment hatred).

Are you talking about that white racist nation that recently elected their first black president just before all the racism started up calling the electoral body white supremist and racists?
I don't think they realize that they are the racists and cultural terrorists turning everything upside down, they are a cultural cancer now consuming a dying body politic, they are cannibals that feed on the dark side of human nature. They are weak and frail spirits that don't know evil's true face, because they don't look in the mirror of introspection.