Thread: I'm glad we're not a movement with a charismatic speaker

Around 1918 or 1919, the German Worker's Party was just an obscure, right-wing party in Germany that had never won anything and who most people knew nothing about. They were basically nobody. It was around then that the German Army sent a World War I veteran soldier to spy on them to see if they were dangerous. The irony is that soldier sent was Adolf Hitler. He ended up joining the party, and then not long after he took it over and renamed it. He was a gifted orator who could move people emotionally and encourage them to take action. I'm fluent in German, and I can say from watching footage of his speeches that he was the most powerful speaker of the 20th century. Other great orators from the 20th century were John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. I would say that those guys were powerful speakers because they had about 30% of Hitler's speaking power.

As you certainly already know, Hitler's party ended up coming to power in Germany, and his leadership was a disaster for the country. His Nazi Party was basically a fanatical cult that followed their ideology blindly.

Fanatical movements usually end up causing great harm. I believe we're seeing that today with feminism and with Islamic terrorism, as well as some far-right terrorism like Atomwaffen (inspired by Hitler's Nazi Party).

I haven't even named anywhere near all the fanatical movements out there. But I'm glad that MGTOW is not a movement, and we have no charismatic leader telling us what to do. We're just a bunch of men smart enough to see a shitty dating and marriage system that's rigged against us. So we opt out, and we concentrating on building great lives for ourselves. We don't have a lunatic leader to manipulate us into doing asinine things like drinking poisoned Kool-Aid.

We're busy building productive and exciting lives. Feminists are busy dyeing their hair green, growing their armpits, and getting fat. We're busy working out and eating healthy while they're busy protesting nude, showing us grotesque bodies we didn't want to see, often with stupid slogans painted on them.

If you show any fanatical movement like Nazism or feminism, you find people acting like morons, even even causing danger. But we're not a movement. We haven't fallen in love with some leader whom we seek to please. We don't have to go out and protest or whatever. We just walk away and do our own thing. It's bizarre that we're hated for that. Maybe the fanatics expect us to be fanatical as well and to go out there and scream at people.

Not doing it.
Non serviam.
I serve only myself.

If you put a dollar figure on the amount of money we diverted from gynocracy you'd say we make Hitler look like a traveling shoe salesman!

We're not just one man leading, we're millions leaving and going our own way and being inert to modern women's interests.

We're 10 sticks of dynamite tossed in their porta potty. We're a direct threat to female empowerment because without us they can't power their diabolical machines.

We inhibit the transfer of wealth and advantage to women, and the costs to them are astronomical, they never saw it coming and it's sobering them to the altered state of reality they created.

It's the main reason we're scrubbed from the internet and denied any room to speak.

They can't debate us so they try to silence us instead.

The closest thing to a Nazi is a feminist, two peas in a pod.

Thats the beauty of MGTOW. If MGTOW had such fanaticism like BLM,Nazi party and etc.. we wouldn't come to such great numbers because those people have parties and rules. You have to abide to the rules of the party. In MGTOW everybody is their own leader,thats the point . Men that have gone monk and wants to preserve virginity, men that is on pump and dump for the 1212442th time with escorts instead of paying for a wife, men that is on vegas spending his money on gambling table and with a stripper on his lap, men creating his own business and becoming a millionaire..
You can NOT force an idea,time has to come.MGTOW is one of those ideas,where you inform a man that society does not give a shit about him and he has to find his own purpose.

Thank good for masses of men with crippling social anxiety, no leadership skills,, introversion, and no life motivation!

MGTOW wins again! Watch it all burn as a leaderless group!

Luckily, even if a leader did exist, they’d be deplatformed in seconds.

Though not in Hitler's league, let's not forget the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and his town, Rajneeshpuram.

This Indian con man bought a huge ranch near Antelope Oregon, population 126. They started with trailers, then built all kinds of stuff. Apartments, community halls, swimming pools, even a hotel and an airport where near anything could land.

The Bhagwan and his people were as sleazy as you can get. A WW II veteran said the only thing the Nazi's had that the Bhagwan didn't was the ovens. Trying to take over local politics in Antelope, they hauled in street people from all over the west coast to stuff the ballet box. When the County mobilized and won the election anyway, the Rajneesh's put the homeless back on the street, in eastern Oregon no less. There're better places to be broke and homeless, I'll tell you that. The State lost who knows how much money cause all these homeless people ended up in Portland. They had something to do with poisoning a restaurant too, but they was coming apart at the seams by then.

Though their body count was low, these people were some real pieces of work. I once had a several hour documentary on these toe rags, but had to give it away. I wanted to take a shower after watching less than half of it.

Now the whole place belongs to some anti teen sex outfit. Good luck with that. What a waste.

Originally Posted by frog

Though not in Hitler's league, let's not forget the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and his town, Rajneeshpuram.

This Indian con man bought a huge ranch near Antelope Oregon, population 126. They started with trailers, then built all kinds of stuff. Apartments, community halls, swimming pools, even a hotel and an airport where near anything could land.

The Bhagwan and his people were as sleazy as you can get. A WW II veteran said the only thing the Nazi's had that the Bhagwan didn't was the ovens. Trying to take over local politics in Antelope, they hauled in street people from all over the west coast to stuff the ballet box. When the County mobilized and won the election anyway, the Rajneesh's put the homeless back on the street, in eastern Oregon no less. There're better places to be broke and homeless, I'll tell you that. The State lost who knows how much money cause all these homeless people ended up in Portland. They had something to do with poisoning a restaurant too, but they was coming apart at the seams by then.

Though their body count was low, these people were some real pieces of work. I once had a several hour documentary on these toe rags, but had to give it away. I wanted to take a shower after watching less than half of it.

Now the whole place belongs to some anti teen sex outfit. Good luck with that. What a waste.

I've heard of these lunatics. I saw a special on them. Yeah, they didn't do as much damage as Hitler, but they did enough. They're in league with the Moonies, Jim Jones, or Heaven's Gate. People have an instinctive need for belonging and to be appreciated, and a charismatic cult leader knows how to tap into that and get people wrapped around his finger.

Originally Posted by Thread Title

I'm glad we're not a movement with a charismatic speaker

Indeed. Although many try to usurp this position they’re missing the point that we are individuals and refuse to give up that individualism.

I think that they see us as lost souls looking for a home when nothing could be further from the truth.

Why do they see us as such?

Because, as you’ve already stated (not in so many words) the masses love to be dictated to. Maybe they just cannot accept that we are any different, yet our very actions prove conclusively that we are.

When people are taught to see things from a particular perspective they often just cannot accept any deviation from it. They perceive that all people think as they do, they just have a different variation on the game that they’re playing but they’re still playing the same basic game.

They just can’t accept that their game-playing tactics can no longer touch us.



On an aside:

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

the German Worker's Party was just an obscure, right-wing party in Germany

The German Workers’ Party, and their successors, the NAZIs (National Socialist German Workers' party) were LEFT wing! The clues are in the names.

This fact has been reconstructed by the left because of the atrocities they brought to bear on the world, but their methods were little different to most left wing insurrections – Lenin & Stalin, Pol Pot etc.

For a modern-day leader, Klaus Schwab. Look who he has as followers and look what he is doing to the world... He doesn't have the masses following him, he doesn't need to when he has nearly every Western leader doing his dirty work...

MGTOW have half the population pushing men our way, we don't need a charismatic speaker.... Besides only women can Red Pill men, and they are doing a dam good job of it!!!

Originally Posted by RustyNuts

For a modern-day leader, Klaus Schwab. Look who he has as followers and look what he is doing to the world... He doesn't have the masses following him, he doesn't need to when he has nearly every Western leader doing his dirty work...

MGTOW have half the population pushing men our way, we don't need a charismatic speaker.... Besides only women can Red Pill men, and they are doing a dam good job of it!!!

Just a thought: I submit that Schwab and, for that matter, George Soros are a little too visible and too obviously like villains in a James Bond movie. I halfway expect to see a picture of Schwab stroking a white cat. Both men are old and have clearly been set up as sacrificial targets if anyone wants to harm either one. It might be worthwhile to ask who's really pulling their strings.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Indeed. Although many try to usurp this position they’re missing the point that we are individuals and refuse to give up that individualism.

On an aside:

The German Workers’ Party, and their successors, the NAZIs (National Socialist German Workers' party) were LEFT wing! The clues are in the names.

This fact has been reconstructed by the left because of the atrocities they brought to bear on the world, but their methods were little different to most left wing insurrections – Lenin & Stalin, Pol Pot etc.

This is disinformation that just won't seem to go away. The German Worker's Party was an extremist right-wing political party, and they became even more extremist right wing when Hitler took them over and turned them into the NSDAP. That's a verifiable fact that you can verify with any accredited historian or political scientist. The NSDAP was supported by, and funded by, Germany's wealthy industrialists, in other words, by the country's biggest capitalists. They did so specifically because Hitler, and his party, were anti-communist. They were so anti-communist that they literally fought against communists in the streets. At the time, the German Communist Party had a lot of support, since a fair number of Germans thought that communism was an answer to the country's current problems of inflation and a bad economy. There was a very real threat in Germany that communism could take over, and that scared the country's wealthiest capitalists. They supported Hitler specifically to stop communism, which he actually did. Unfortunately, there were terrible side effects of the NSDAP taking power, most of which the people here probably already know. In fairness to the industrialists, they almost certainly did not know that Hitler was going to set up extermination camps and start another world war. They just knew that a communist takeover would destroy their wealth, so they supported the politicians who was most anti-communist, and that was Hitler.

But we know for certain that Hitler was a far-right capitalist supporter. His party became wealthy and powerful via support from Germany's biggest industrialists/capitalists. He also outlawed and brutally suppressed Germany's labor unions. The Third Reich was free of any unions, specifically because Hitler didn't want them. No Marxist would ever do that. Banning labor unions is about the most anti-Marxist thing that anyone could do.

The myth that the NSDAP was socialist or left wing comes from several misunderstandings:
1. They used the word "socialist" in the name of their party.
This was simply one of Hitler's many big lies. The word "socialism" had a the positive connotation of being for the people, so the party used that to make themselves look good. But just using that word does not make someone a socialist. North Korea uses the word "democratic" in their official name, but that does not make them a democracy.
2. For a time, part of the NSDAP thought they were socialists.
The SA, or storm troopers, lead by Earnst Röhm, had some members who thought the party was socialist, and valued some socialist policies to help the working class.
However, Hitler feared Röhm may be becoming too powerful and could take over the party, so he had him murdered, as well as other prominent SA members. Anyone who had socialist leanings, Hitler had murdered.
3. Right-wing American politicians deliberately put out this disinformation as an attempt to disassociate themselves from Hitler's extremist far right and also to malign their opponents. However, it's total nonsense, which has been proven historically over and over. The evidence of the NSDAP being far right is overwhelming. It's also nonsense that a conservative feels the need to distance himself from Hitler. A person can be a conservative without being anything like the Nazis. Someone can be for limited government and a strong military, but that doesn't make them some kind of Nazi. One must remember that the Nazis weren't just on the right. They were extremist far right, and thus had little in common with someone who is simply right of center. They also weren't anything at all like today's American liberals or progressives. Branding them as Nazis is an absurd distortion of the truth. That doesn't make today's neoliberals good. They have plenty of asinine ideas. But they're not Nazis.

No one spreading this disinformation has ever explained why Hitler outlawed labor unions, something no Marxist would ever do. They also haven't explained why ultra-rich capitalists would support him. They had extreme fear of communism and supported Hitler in an attempt to stop the communists. Hitler then acted very capitalist himself. He got rich off the sale of his book and lead a lifestyle of luxury, that included a luxury retreat complex in the Bavarian alps.

People fear that being anti-communist will make them as bad as Hitler if the fact of his anti-communism is known. However, just because someone agrees with one thing with Hitler does not make them a Nazi. I saw a speech by a neo Nazi who said that invading Iraq was a terrible idea. I agreed with him on that one point, but that doesn't make me a Nazi.

In short, being anti-communist does not automatically make someone a Nazi. But it is true that Hitler was a fanatical anti-communist. His being on the left is an impossibility, and that's been proven over and over in history. However, that left to right way of measuring politics is highly flawed anyway, but that's another issue.

To begin at the end:

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

However, that left to right way of measuring politics is highly flawed anyway, but that's another issue.

This ^.

Was Hitler a socialist / communist?

Absolutely not, but neither was he a capitalist. His rampage against the Jews is proof enough of this.

But the NAZI party was socialist, albeit supported by capitalist industrialists.

Are we not seeing the same today?

How many of our major multinational corporations profess and financially support leftist policies?

For businesses it’s all a con. They will support anything that they believe will give them a financial advantage, politics be damned!


Fascism knows nothing of politics. It is neither left wing nor right wing. It is totalitarianism of thought, expression and deed.


When it comes to political regimes with some sort of democratic process like what we have today in the West, this is best served through the mask of socialism, of equality for all, but it is only a mask.

Tear away that mask and you see it for what it is: total control over thought, speech and deed.

Individualism is lost.

Such was the regime imposed by the NAZIs.

Were they actually socialist? Well I suppose that depends on what you think “socialist” means, but they claimed the mantle so let them wear it.

Such it is with today’s left. They seek to control your every thought and deed.

The keyword here to define the NSDAP is the German word "völkisch". It is very difficult to translate it properly because there are several underlyings and implications. To call it populist wouldn't be sufficient. It goes way deeper as it only means your people, your tribe, your nation. National movement would also not be enough, so they added socialist to the name because against the outside it was very national (Germany first) and for the people within very socialist (payments for people who came back to the Reich, for women who had children, programs for children, holiday money and so on).

The party was also funded from the military leaders of that time. Don't forget that Germany lost the First World War despite never been invaded. The battlefield were in France (Verdun) - if you ever have the possibility, check it out, it shivers me still when I think about this damned place. Germany had to pay huge reparation payments to the winners and this particular Versailles treaty was indeed cruel.

I still believe that the real cause of WWII was this unfair treaty which pushed impoverished and unhappy Germans to the arms of a movement which presented radical solutions for a radical suppression.

If you read Hitlers 800 pages long book, you will found out that he dreamed of a German society that ressembled an ancient Roman-Greek model. His dream was to establish an empire and he should be the emperor.

And don't forget that the solution of the Weimar republic to the problem of having to pay millions to pay their debt was to inflate money which resulted in a huge inflation.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

To begin at the end:

This ^.

Was Hitler a socialist / communist?

Absolutely not, but neither was he a capitalist. His rampage against the Jews is proof enough of this.

But the NAZI party was socialist, albeit supported by capitalist industrialists.

Are we not seeing the same today?

How many of our major multinational corporations profess and financially support leftist policies?

For businesses it’s all a con. They will support anything that they believe will give them a financial advantage, politics be damned!


Fascism knows nothing of politics. It is neither left wing nor right wing. It is totalitarianism of thought, expression and deed.


When it comes to political regimes with some sort of democratic process like what we have today in the West, this is best served through the mask of socialism, of equality for all, but it is only a mask.

Tear away that mask and you see it for what it is: total control over thought, speech and deed.

Individualism is lost.

Such was the regime imposed by the NAZIs.

Were they actually socialist? Well I suppose that depends on what you think “socialist” means, but they claimed the mantle so let them wear it.

Such it is with today’s left. They seek to control your every thought and deed.

It's a fact agreed on by any accredited historian that the Nazi Party was fascist, not socialist. Fascism was basically authoritarianism plus extreme nationalism plus capitalism. People are mistaken if they think that capitalism always includes a system of representative democracy. It doesn't necessarily. If a dictator took over America, he could leave the basic economic system in place, but destroy the constitution and the bill of rights. WalMart could still keep selling diapers for profit, but you could get arrested and shot if you said something the dictator didn't like.

The one thing Hitler and Stalin had in common was that they were both authoritarians. But they ran empires of different ideologies and economic systems.

Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard

The keyword here to define the NSDAP is the German word "völkisch". It is very difficult to translate it properly because there are several underlyings and implications. To call it populist wouldn't be sufficient. It goes way deeper as it only means your people, your tribe, your nation. National movement would also not be enough, so they added socialist to the name because against the outside it was very national (Germany first) and for the people within very socialist (payments for people who came back to the Reich, for women who had children, programs for children, holiday money and so on).

The party was also funded from the military leaders of that time. Don't forget that Germany lost the First World War despite never been invaded. The battlefield were in France (Verdun) - if you ever have the possibility, check it out, it shivers me still when I think about this damned place. Germany had to pay huge reparation payments to the winners and this particular Versailles treaty was indeed cruel.

I still believe that the real cause of WWII was this unfair treaty which pushed impoverished and unhappy Germans to the arms of a movement which presented radical solutions for a radical suppression.

If you read Hitlers 800 pages long book, you will found out that he dreamed of a German society that ressembled an ancient Roman-Greek model. His dream was to establish an empire and he should be the emperor.

And don't forget that the solution of the Weimar republic to the problem of having to pay millions to pay their debt was to inflate money which resulted in a huge inflation.

Yes, you're right. "Völkisch" is tough to fully translate. Think of it as "of the people" plus hyper nationalism. Yes, the Versailles Treaty went way overboard. It wasn't just the reparations that infuriated Germans. The treaty also made Germany agree that Germany was solely responsible for starting the war, something that is objectively and provably false. Their Kaiser did make big mistakes that lead to war, but so did the leaders of other countries. It's very complicated, and we've only scratched the surface, but suffice it to say the Nazis probably couldn't have come to power without that unjust treaty, plus economic hardship. The sad thing is, even those reparations would not have been enough to destroy Germany's economy on their own. Germany got help via loans from the United States, and their economy improved, and even started to prosper. However, then the Great Depression came along and sank it again.

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

It's a fact agreed on by any accredited historian that the Nazi Party was fascist, not socialist. Fascism was basically authoritarianism plus extreme nationalism plus capitalism. People are mistaken if they think that capitalism always includes a system of representative democracy. It doesn't necessarily. If a dictator took over America, he could leave the basic economic system in place, but destroy the constitution and the bill of rights. WalMart could still keep selling diapers for profit, but you could get arrested and shot if you said something the dictator didn't like.

The one thing Hitler and Stalin had in common was that they were both authoritarians. But they ran empires of different ideologies and economic systems.

Accredited historians? Hmpff!

Yes the NAZIs were fascists, but why does that preclude them from being socialists?

The only reason I can think of is that TPTB have successfully warped our understanding of what these terms actually mean.

Today fascism equates to extreme right wing. Why?

Socialism is ultimately about governmental control over everything – not only our actions, but our thoughts as well.

Capitalism stands as a bulwark against such ideology and is therefore neither fascist nor socialist. So too does religion. So too do unions.

Everything and anything that undermines the power base of the establishment must be quashed.

I see no difference between socialism and fascism. They work hand-in-hand to achieve the same aim.

Is socialism necessary for fascism?

No.

The despotic megalomaniac is also fascist, but he has a lot in common with socialism in so far as he wishes to control everything.

Originally Posted by Jackoff

Accredited historians? Hmpff!

Yes the NAZIs were fascists, but why does that preclude them from being socialists?

The only reason I can think of is that TPTB have successfully warped our understanding of what these terms actually mean.

Today fascism equates to extreme right wing. Why?

Socialism is ultimately about governmental control over everything – not only our actions, but our thoughts as well.

Capitalism stands as a bulwark against such ideology and is therefore neither fascist nor socialist. So too does religion. So too do unions.

Everything and anything that undermines the power base of the establishment must be quashed.

I see no difference between socialism and fascism. They work hand-in-hand to achieve the same aim.

Is socialism necessary for fascism?

No.

The despotic megalomaniac is also fascist, but he has a lot in common with socialism in so far as he wishes to control everything.

This historians are experts, just like someone who works at the Mayo Clinic doing brain surgery is an expert at that. You're thinking of authoritarianism. Both the Nazis and the Bolsheviks (Soviet Communists) were authoritarians. They had totally different political and economic ideologies. What they had in common was they were autocrats. If you crossed them, it didn't make a huge difference what ideologies were at that point. You would be shot or sent to some ruthless camp to be worked to death.

Though they had authoritarianism in common, they were bitter enemies. In fact, in Germany in the 1920s, they literally were fighting against one another in the streets. I think some people on the right don't want to admit that Hitler was on the right, but the difference was that he was an extremist and an authoritarian. It doesn't mean that someone who's on the right as a Republican in the US or as a Torry in Britain is like Hitler. It only means they're both right of center on that scale. As I've mentioned, that scale has big flaws anyway.

But Hitler was so anti-Marxist that he made war against Marxism even before he came to power. In the 1920s, he had his SA (roughly translated as Storm Department) find Marxists and attack them in the streets. The Marxists also regarded the NSDAP as bitter enemies. They had their own organization of uniformed street thugs who fought the NSDAP in the streets.

It's simply disinformation to say that Hitler or his NSDAP were left wing socialists or communists. He was their biggest enemy ever.

Obama had that as well. Hilarity Clinton tried to copy but just didn't have it.

Obama was all about the taglines, talking a lot but not really saying anything. Coming out with the quick soundbyte for the evening news. But he never achieved anything. Hilarity tried the same shit with the "Deplorable" routine but she lacked the youth and was too much of an old political dinosaur for it to really excite anyone.

Trump followed and offered hope and had the anger that people related to and wanted to see, so he won.

What I like about MGTOW is we are too diverse to have a leader who would be able to appeal to all or even the majority of us. Not to mention none of us really want anything, which, as the saying goes makes us dangerous.

Originally Posted by Kryptic

Obama had that as well. Hilarity Clinton tried to copy but just didn't have it.

Obama was all about the taglines, talking a lot but not really saying anything. Coming out with the quick soundbyte for the evening news. But he never achieved anything. Hilarity tried the same shit with the "Deplorable" routine but she lacked the youth and was too much of an old political dinosaur for it to really excite anyone.

Trump followed and offered hope and had the anger that people related to and wanted to see, so he won.

What I like about MGTOW is we are too diverse to have a leader who would be able to appeal to all or even the majority of us. Not to mention none of us really want anything, which, as the saying goes makes us dangerous.

They're all a bunch of manipulators who just enrich themselves at public expense. I wish every single one of them would keel over and die. Cue the Tina Turner song, "We don't need another hero."

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

This historians are experts

Experts in what exactly?

I could maybe agree with this if they stuck to facts, that country A invaded country B at a given time and place, but they don’t stop there do they? They insist on applying motivations for the various actions. This is not factual, it is hypothesis.

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

You're thinking of authoritarianism.

Hmm.

O.K., I can agree with that, but which actual socialist countries are not authoritarian? Set aside philosophy for a moment and look at the practicalities.

And for socialist please include communist.

Socialism and communism are one and the same in their doctrine. If there is any difference at all it is only as a matter of degree in the implementation of said doctrine.

Would you say that Russia is not authoritarian? What about China? North Korea?

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

Both the Nazis and the Bolsheviks (Soviet Communists) were authoritarians. They had totally different political and economic ideologies. What they had in common was they were autocrats. If you crossed them, it didn't make a huge difference what ideologies were at that point. You would be shot or sent to some ruthless camp to be worked to death.

Exactly. Is this not pretty much the definition of fascism? Why then is fascism always linked to the right when it’s obvious to anyone with eyes to see that it’s pretty much intrinsic to communism? Unless, of course you realise that terms like left and right wing are pretty much meaningless in themselves.

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

I think some people on the right don't want to admit that Hitler was on the right

Nope. At least not in my case. I’m no right-winger, in fact I’ve stated repeatedly on this forum that I still have some left-wing viewpoints. This being said I’m no left-winger either, there is much in the left that I totally despise.

I think you have it backwards, that there are many on the left that refuse to accept that the NAZIs were on the left.

Note I replaced Hitler with NAZI, this was intentional. IMO Hitler, like all demigods use political leanings to their advantage. They care nothing about the actual politics except in how they can turn them to their advantage.

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

But Hitler was so anti-Marxist that he made war against Marxism even before he came to power.

And yet, by employing the support of major businesses he was pretty much playing from the Marxist handbook.

Originally Posted by TigPlaze

It's simply disinformation to say that Hitler or his NSDAP were left wing socialists or communists. He was their biggest enemy ever.

Again with the “disinformation” tag.

These are my thoughts. They are based on my own observations, not on the rhetoric of others.

I agree with Jackoff.

As I see it, going left in the political spectrum tends toward tyranny. Going to the right tends toward individual liberty.

Sadly, there are many paths leading left and many that lay claim to being "on the right" but are truly leftists seeking to impose their own tyranny.