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  1. #1

    Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    Hi, folks. I wrote a short piece on how we idealize romantic-sexual relationships with women, and the trouble it causes. I hope you find it interesting. Here is an excerpt, with a link if you'd like to read the rest.

    "Ive made a truckload of mistakes with women, but here is the most fundamental one I made, the blunder from which so many other blunders followed: I idealized sexual-romantic relationships. I thought way too much of them. I had an overly positive, unrealistic view of what those relationships were how they worked and what they could provide. I was deluded.

    "I hope that by talking briefly about my mistake, some of you will be able to avoid or minimize its impact on your life. I spent years wandering in a romantic haze, pursuing a mirage. Maybe I can spare you some of that. And if you already understand what Im getting at that romantic love isnt all its cracked up to be then perhaps this can serve as a reminder. The social programming is relentless, so we can all use an occasional reminder a bit of deprogramming. If nothing else, maybe you can take some schadenfraudey glee at my bumbling."

    https://goodbachelorhood.com/idealizing-relationships/

  2. #2
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    Re: Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    What did you expect after kindly Uncle Walt and the TV came along at the same time? You was young then too, we ate that shit up. Bad Uncle Walt, bad.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

  3. #3

    Re: Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    Excerpt (bolded and underlined emphasis mine):

    >>

    First, there is more to life than romantic-sexual love. There are many ways – not just one – to have a happy, fulfilling, meaningful life. To think that romantic love is the be-all, end-all of human existence, and that you’re missing something vital without it, is simply a failure of imagination. How about acquiring wisdom? How about learning and personal growth? How about meaningful work? How about spirituality? How about helping the world to be a little better place, even in a small way?

    Second, a suggestion. If you would like to free yourself from the delusional picture of romantic love that we all get indoctrinated with, listen to other men talk about their experience.
    Now, don’t just listen to the married conservative guys, with their tales of wedded bliss, or to the socially approved, pleasant-sounding stuff that is all so familiar. Listen to the other side of the story – the side you don’t hear much about, because it is unpleasant and because it can upset some people. Listen to the guys whose lives have been ruined by crazy women. Listen to the guys whose hearts have been crushed in divorce court. Listen to the tens of thousands of men who have had miserable experiences in dating and relationships. If you want to dissolve the delusional idealizations, there is no better solvent than listening to men talk about their actual experience.

    Third, even if you consider love a high value (which it is, when practiced well, not in sham form), romantic-sexual love is just one of many types of love, not the only or best one. There are many ways to extend kindness, benevolence, and compassion. Romantic love is just one form, and it has a long list of downsides not present in other forms of love.

    And fourth, it makes zero sense to base your self-esteem on whether you have a stable romantic-sexual relationship or not. That is a lousy criterion of manhood and self-worth. It is an incredibly low bar, as you can see by looking around at all the mediocre Shmoes who are in relationships. Relationship status depends a lot of things that aren’t exactly badges of honor, such as the willingness to conform to cultural scripts. And much of it is out of your control (e.g., dependent on physical appearance, innate personality, etc.).

    Be good to yourself. If you’re going to judge yourself, do it by internal criteria, things you genuinely believe are admirable, and things that are under your control — such as the thoughts you cultivate, the actions you take, your character and principles. To do otherwise is just to make yourself a pawn of biology and culture.
    >>


    Thanks for posting this, very good and clear points. Just a tiny suggestion if I may, perhaps you could expand more on the italics part 'it has a long list of downsides', say give an example or two to help clarify possible downsides for uninformed readers - as this is a public blog, if someone should stumble unto it, he would most likely be quite blue-pilled and would be unaware of what the sentence is alluding to.

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    Re: Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    Although I would never say I was entirely Blue pill and I even avoided relationships with women to a great extent, I still idealized them. I think it made me happy to believe they were these amazing creatures and if I got talking to one it was like a wild animal coming up and sitting next to you in the forest.

    Really stupid and I even put off some women who didn't like having that kind of pressure of perfection put on them. I saw it years afterwards. Women are just flawed human beings, there is nothing inherently special or superior about them.

    I think the more Feminism and society tries to push the idea of Female superiority it brings more and more of their flaws to the surface as well.

  5. #5

    Re: Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsmith79 View Post
    Thanks for posting this, very good and clear points. Just a tiny suggestion if I may, perhaps you could expand more on the italics part 'it has a long list of downsides', say give an example or two to help clarify possible downsides for uninformed readers - as this is a public blog, if someone should stumble unto it, he would most likely be quite blue-pilled and would be unaware of what the sentence is alluding to.
    Yup, I sure could. However, I was trying to keep the piece short, so I didn't want to elaborate on that too much. But you're right, I could've added a couple examples. I've written some about it elsewhere (e.g., in "Don't Get Married," which reviews the main downsides of that). It's a big subject, though, with enough material for at least a dozen pieces.

  6. #6

    Re: Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptic View Post
    Although I would never say I was entirely Blue pill and I even avoided relationships with women to a great extent, I still idealized them. I think it made me happy to believe they were these amazing creatures and if I got talking to one it was like a wild animal coming up and sitting next to you in the forest.

    Really stupid and I even put off some women who didn't like having that kind of pressure of perfection put on them. I saw it years afterwards. Women are just flawed human beings, there is nothing inherently special or superior about them.

    I think the more Feminism and society tries to push the idea of Female superiority it brings more and more of their flaws to the surface as well.
    That's very well said, about the idealization despite largely avoiding relationships (that fits me as well), and how it was like an exotic animal coming up to you in the forest. A mysterious forest nymph or something, hah. And yeah, there was something that felt good about retaining that fantasy. It made the world feel a more enchanted, to believe in it. And that's one of the prices to pay for swallowing the red pill; you have to let that fantasy go. But it's for the best.

    You're right that feminism makes the flaws more apparent. It certainly wrecks the image of "sugar and spice and everything nice," when you've got Big Red screaming at you. Society still props up women's image at every turn, but there is a countervailing current, too, which we're a part of. The mask is coming off.

  7. #7

    Re: Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    That's an excellent piece. I was well conditioned in my early years to expect dating, romance, and marriage were important even necessary components of life. Then I wondered what was wrong with me since it never worked out to be anything like the fantasy. In my post 40 years, I started to sum up my observations of all the nonsense surrounding these issues and realized how many bullets I dodged. Where are the "happily ever after" relationships outside the movies? Who really had good dating experiences, developing into "love" (rather than just sexual attraction)?

    Most of the married couples I have observed sort of fell into it, dated a couple times, decided this is good enough, maybe even convincing themselves it was a love/soulmate situation, then signed the lifetime contract. And most appear miserable not many years later, though they may cover it up with Prozac and distractions. I saw one such couple a few days ago. Smiley and apparently happy on the surface, but I know it's 3+ anti-depressant prescriptions each, washed down by alcohol starting at lunch.

    I have only posted a couple of times so far. It sure is good to find others who have come to similar conclusions, and are spreading the word.

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    Member McDudeski McGee's Avatar
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    Re: Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    Thanks for sharing Eddie. The part about self-criticism resonated with me.

    There's an entire industry of content creators out there teaching people how to be alpha, when they really mean jumping through hoops to win the beta game. I internalized this a few years ago while working at a warehouse. Even the plain Janes just threw themselves at druggies and gangbangers. Those guys are the actual alphas; everything else is bullshit. Trying to say the right words, or have the right appearance, all of the romance stuff is just as mundane as interviewing to be a woman's underling. Briffault's Law reigns supreme.

    I'm looking forward to reading more of what you have to say about the midlife bachelor path!

  9. #9

    Re: Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    I've been binge-reading your articles. Some really good stuff, Sir. Looking forward to more of it.
    Last edited by Hedon; October 13, 2021 at 12:39 AM.

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    Re: Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by McDudeski McGee View Post
    Thanks for sharing Eddie. The part about self-criticism resonated with me.

    There's an entire industry of content creators out there teaching people how to be alpha, when they really mean jumping through hoops to win the beta game. I internalized this a few years ago while working at a warehouse. Even the plain Janes just threw themselves at druggies and gangbangers. Those guys are the actual alphas; everything else is bullshit. Trying to say the right words, or have the right appearance, all of the romance stuff is just as mundane as interviewing to be a woman's underling. Briffault's Law reigns supreme.

    I'm looking forward to reading more of what you have to say about the midlife bachelor path!
    I have always seen "Alpha's" usually a title bestowed upon them by themselves as being slaves. They work hard to maintain that illusion. They fight for women that aren't even theirs, they will fight other men they have no rational beef with. They work long hours in hard jobs to support all the kids they make. They aren't Alpha at all.

    And that's why women love them so much. They can get what they want out of them for minimal effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Haskell View Post
    That's very well said, about the idealization despite largely avoiding relationships (that fits me as well), and how it was like an exotic animal coming up to you in the forest. A mysterious forest nymph or something, hah. And yeah, there was something that felt good about retaining that fantasy. It made the world feel a more enchanted, to believe in it. And that's one of the prices to pay for swallowing the red pill; you have to let that fantasy go. But it's for the best.

    You're right that feminism makes the flaws more apparent. It certainly wrecks the image of "sugar and spice and everything nice," when you've got Big Red screaming at you. Society still props up women's image at every turn, but there is a countervailing current, too, which we're a part of. The mask is coming off.
    Thanks. Once the rose coloured glasses are removed though it is impossible to see them the same way again. I see women I think are attractive and it is nice to look but almost in the same instant I think about how much bullshit it would take to even say hello. If it would be worth it and of course it isn't. I even get caught out sometimes and they smile at me, hoping I will take the bait. Nope, I do enjoy the look of disappointment on their faces when I don't approach. Next thing you know, I am two blocks away lol.

    Speaking of Sugar and Spice and all things nice, as a kid I always thought it was interesting that is what applied to girls but boys were made of all sorts of gross things. Reminds me now of how women are taught they don't need men but men are still expected to want women. Look at the way MGTOW is seen by society, we are considered a threat.

  11. #11
    Senior Member mgtower's Avatar
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    Re: Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptic View Post
    I have always seen "Alpha's" usually a title bestowed upon them by themselves as being slaves. They work hard to maintain that illusion. They fight for women that aren't even theirs, they will fight other men they have no rational beef with. They work long hours in hard jobs to support all the kids they make. They aren't Alpha at all.

    And that's why women love them so much. They can get what they want out of them for minimal effort.



    Thanks. Once the rose coloured glasses are removed though it is impossible to see them the same way again. I see women I think are attractive and it is nice to look but almost in the same instant I think about how much bullshit it would take to even say hello. If it would be worth it and of course it isn't. I even get caught out sometimes and they smile at me, hoping I will take the bait. Nope, I do enjoy the look of disappointment on their faces when I don't approach. Next thing you know, I am two blocks away lol.

    Speaking of Sugar and Spice and all things nice, as a kid I always thought it was interesting that is what applied to girls but boys were made of all sorts of gross things. Reminds me now of how women are taught they don't need men but men are still expected to want women. Look at the way MGTOW is seen by society, we are considered a threat.
    We're not a threat, we're poetic justice coming back to bite them in the ass with sharp teeth of accountability, not terribly unlike Stephen King's Langoliers, CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP!




    Last edited by mgtower; October 13, 2021 at 12:44 PM.
    Any man that seeks leadership outside himself has a fool for a guide.

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    Re: Idealization of Romantic-Sexual Relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by mgtower View Post
    We're not a threat, we're poetic justice coming back to bite them in the ass with sharp teeth of accountability, not terribly unlike Stephen King's Langoliers, CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP!




    lol yeah I know but to them, we are worse. The more men who walk away means less men playing their game. That is why they keep shutting down MGTOW sites and deriding MGTOW on Wikipedia etc.


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