Thread: I just started reading this masculinity book by Mike Cernovich.

Originally Posted by bazalgette

[Edited previous post to oblivion, wanted to make it less harsh.]

"No 1. rule of the manosphere: If he has coach in the name, he is certified bitch." ~ Undead Chronic
Be weary of coaches. From what I remember, Hammerhand considers him legit, but most of the people
(manosphere or not) that have coach in the name are grifters.

I do not need to buy one's book, course or seminar in order to realize that something isn't right.
Tell me, do you need to get married to a woman in order to realize that she was not genuine?
No - you look for so called red flags.

In the case of the book i see three-star-long and gorilla-high red flag.
I hear "Danger & Play" and see Conference for Masculine Excellence.
I read bulldog & gorilla paralels and get Dream Johnson vibes :-D.
I've read what you've quoted. The language and message of this book give me PUA vibes.

Again, not-a-pua doesn't mean shit.
Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus - If you find inconsistencies, whole testimony goes to shitter.
I've found inconsistencies, you've found inconsistencies. It doesn't take a genius to conclude that
this book is prolly BS.

Also - I mean no foul. As i've already said I could have worded my previous comment better.
I've meant that because of your background there may be something off about this book, that you don't notice
but we do.

I agree on looking for red flags. We're in an agreement there.

I've now realized that all of my previous responses seem pretty agressive.
I hope you don't take it as a disagreement with you.
I just strongly disagree with a book, and the author.
When I see Gorilla next to masculinity, I just go bananas.
It is my belief that those people do more harm than good.
It's as if you wanted to reclaim your italian heritage, so you learn italian culture from Super Mario.

Originally Posted by UnKnownSurviving

I just point out flaws in the book I don't agree with. Which means I'm keen enough to spot incorrect method of doing. Like he said, in the sentence in the book, "if you want to be aggressive in approaching women, that's masculine", execpt I don't believe that's masculine. "approaching women" is not masculine trait. And approaching women doesn't WORK! But I don't think he is PUAs.

As you've pointed out - SOME of his points seem legit, others are just plainly stupid.
That's the inconsistency you should be looking for. If you have a mentor that sometimes drops gems on you and sometimes wants you to do stupid shit, it's a shitty mentor.
He is fundamentally wrong about one rule atleast - how can you trust the rest of his points?

Let me tell you that cold approach and being persistant it's one of main PUA's talking points.
It's also the quickest way to get #M2'ed.

Being gorilla that is playful, engage in stereotypical masculine behaviours from hollywood movies in order to display masculinity - that's called a frame.

Being nice, having good manners has nothing to do with masculinity - this is a way of a white knight.
If having class, manners, and being nice had worked, women wouldn't fall for thugs and bad boys.
And women fall for masculine men.
You seriously wanna tell me that i need to be nice gorilla with a class that is also playful?
Should I jump through the hoops too?

Please do read the book and give me feedback.
One can only learn from their mistakes and I'm no exception to this rule.

Originally Posted by UnKnownSurviving

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding? I just point out flaws in the book I don't agree with. Which means I'm keen enough to spot incorrect method of doing. Like he said, in the sentence in the book, "if you want to be aggressive in approaching women, that's masculine", execpt I don't believe that's masculine. "approaching women" is not masculine trait. And approaching women doesn't WORK! But I don't think he is PUAs. I'll have to dive in further information to confirm that he is. Some things he said appear genuine. But it does not mean he's a pick up.

Normally pick up artists mainly talk about picking up women and game consistently throughout. And I avoid them, because they obviously don't work. But Mike is writing on essay of masculinity, and He has several topics.

You mentioned being raised by a single mother without any kind of father, All you knew was dudes you may or may not have idolized, never getting a peek inside a man's head, nothing to rub off and nothing to adopt, no masculinity, just femininity and the conflict between the two. A conflict started in the garden of Eden and not going away anytime soon.

As a man growing up in this masculinity void environment it's no wonder you and millions like you gravitated to places like this, so you can rewire your head accordingly with the good advice of master electricians that know the schematics of masculinity and the proper positioning and posturing in a world that hates us for the whims that whimper and cry over women and fight each other over the pleasure to do so.

We shook off the entire cultural revolution putting women and their superiority complex in their proper place, and that's on the outside of the garden of MGTOW peering in with great anger and resentment.

Some people are victims while others are survivors, the only difference is attitude, and this is the place to get attitude adjustments that work!

The difference between a maniac and a genius is the tightening of mental screws at the right time and place. The butterfly effect.

Originally Posted by bazalgette

As you've pointed out - SOME of his points seem legit, others are just plainly stupid.
That's the inconsistency you should be looking for. If you have a mentor that sometimes drops gems on you and sometimes wants you to do stupid shit, it's a shitty mentor.
If he is fundamentally wrong about one thing how can you trust the rest of his points?


Let me tell you that cold approach and being persistant it's one of main PUA's talking points.
It's also the quickest way to get #M2'ed.

Being gorilla that is playful, engage in stereotypical masculine behaviours from hollywood movies in order to display masculinity - that's called a frame.

Yep, we're in an agreement here. I've heard of cold approaching in in PUA's talking points, main topics and it land them in prison, serving sentences. I don't cold approach. I've seen what it does to men, and you NEVER, NEVER CHASE WOMEN. It's not natural. Women should approach men, but that's another story.

When I was broken several years ago, and researching red pill, I found and learned that men are the prize. Women aren't shit. Culturally, society don't teach this, at all. And they always molly coddled women as being perfect. Or that women are better than men. They are not.

Originally Posted by mgtower

You mentioned being raised by a single mother without any kind of father, All you knew was dudes you may or may not have idolized, never getting a peek inside a man's head, nothing to rub off and nothing to adopt, no masculinity, just femininity and the conflict between the two. A conflict started in the garden of Eden and not going away anytime soon.

As a man growing up in this masculinity void environment it's no wonder you and millions like you gravitated to places like this, so you can rewire your head accordingly with the good advice of master electricians that know the schematics of masculinity and the proper positioning and posturing in a world that hates us for the whims that whimper and cry over women and fight each other over the pleasure to do so.

We shook off the entire cultural revolution putting women and their superiority complex in their proper place, and that's on the outside of the garden of MGTOW peering in with great anger and resentment.

Some people are victims while others are survivors, the only difference is attitude, and this is the place to get attitude adjustments that work!

The difference between a maniac and a genius is the tightening of mental screws at the right time and place. The butterfly effect.

Are you...being honest with me? It seems you are. Frankly, I would like to have known manly men when I was a child, and I did have some suffering without a father. Father to red pill his sons about women and the hatred the world has for men and boys. Unfortunately, there are beta fathers, because they too had grown up without strong father or masculine figure, so to speak. I avoid beta men and Look for red pill men I can look up to. I am observant when it comes to men, bachelors, and strong men.

Right now, there aren't many strong men. Especially single strong men. Rare, even. The world constantly bashed men, and they continue to bash men and favor women.

Originally Posted by bazalgette

Being nice, having good manners has nothing to do with masculinity - this is a way of a white knight.
If having class, manners, and being nice had worked, women wouldn't fall for thugs and bad boys.
And women fall for masculine men.
You seriously wanna tell me that i need to be nice gorilla with a class that is also playful?
Should I jump through the hoops too?

Please do read the book and give me feedback.
One can only learn from their mistakes and I'm no exception to this rule.

On the topic of "being nice", I don't agree with being nice or having good manners, because I tried being nice in the past, and it backfired. And I agree with you, completely. Women take advantage of nice guys (and I dealt with it in my experience. I'm working to be less nice, and develop strong masculine traits that men look up to), and they fucked nice guys over, behind their back, while she goes for chad and tyrone.

Women are not attracted to nice guys; there's sense of disrespect against "nice" guys. Now, understand that I'm in no way trying to attract women at all. Unless I get laid, and that's another level. And there's sexual services for that without the fucking drama that I notice among women and that I experienced a lot of painful work in the drama myself. (I prefer sex without the relationship.) Just the fact that women aren't attracted to nice guys, and they get sexual tingles from "baddies".

Hmmm, how about you plan a whole weekend for yourself in the woods. You pack the things you need in a backpack and then you build a little camp for friday until sunday evening. The most important things are food, a knife, a lighter, pens and paper. No technical things, no smartphone, no internet. Just you and nature. And then you do what you want to do and maybe, maybe you would want to write your story down, all the bullshit you bear with you and finally you throw it in the fire and write down how you would like to be. You reinvent your being by yourself.

Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard

Hmmm, how about you plan a whole weekend for yourself in the woods. You pack the things you need in a backpack and then you build a little camp for friday until sunday evening. The most important things are food, a knife, a lighter, pens and paper. No technical things, no smartphone, no internet. Just you and nature. And then you do what you want to do and maybe, maybe you would want to write your story down, all the bullshit you bear with you and finally you throw it in the fire and write down how you would like to be. You reinvent your being by yourself.

Hey, good morning.

I'm actually improving myself every day, with personal experience, and some exercise. I don't just read. I'm working on being more manly with manly characteristics. Besides exercise and weight lifting (I always weigh myself in early in the morning every morning, see how much I lost before I eat breakfast. I'm still working on losing weights.), I look for masculine traits that men want to be, that see they other other men with, just be masculine.

There's not a lot of strong masculine men these these days.

Originally Posted by UnKnownSurviving

Hey, good morning.

I'm actually improving myself every day, with personal experience, and some exercise. I don't just read. I'm working on being more manly with manly characteristics. Besides exercise and weight lifting (I always weigh myself in early in the morning every morning, see how much I lost before I eat breakfast. I'm still working on losing weights.), I look for masculine traits that men want to be, that see they other other men with, just be masculine.

There's not a lot of strong masculine men these these days.

This was no joke at all, go into the wilderness for a weekend. No comfort zone, no detachment to the world. No other voices, no other opinions, no other people. Build your own camp, cook your own food, fish, hunt, whatever, but do it yourself and alone. Can you handle this or will you run back to your mommies house?

Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard

Hmmm, how about you plan a whole weekend for yourself in the woods. You pack the things you need in a backpack and then you build a little camp for friday until sunday evening. The most important things are food, a knife, a lighter, pens and paper. No technical things, no smartphone, no internet. Just you and nature. And then you do what you want to do and maybe, maybe you would want to write your story down, all the bullshit you bear with you and finally you throw it in the fire and write down how you would like to be. You reinvent your being by yourself.

I've actually actually thought going outside in the wilderness, having nature and finding my masculine side, like the ancient traditions. I did ask once or twice if there's masculine traditions or masculine culture that I could keep in touch with my ancestors. So do we have masculine traditions? Yes? No? If not, I could probably come up with a masculine traditions, like the norse stuff. Something similar?

Jack Donovan has written three favorite books of mine, all popular with men. Because so many men were searching for answers, since society bash men and demean men in general. His books are in this order: "The Way of Men", "Becoming Barbarians", and his third volume: "A More Complete Beast". He has other books, and his recent self- published book, I don't remember the name of it at the moment, but i have his latest book. (I'll have to edit it here, to mention his latest book, when I have time to find the name of his recent book.)

Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard

Go into the wilderness for a weekend. No comfort zone, no detachment to the world. No other voices, no other opinions, no other people. Build your own camp, cook your own food, fish, hunt, whatever, but do it yourself and alone. Can you handle this or will you run back to your mommies house?

Hey, this is a good idea! I should do that. I'm adding this to list of goals. I wonder there's camp ground I could go to. I do wanted to try hunting....

Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard

This was no joke at all, go into the wilderness for a weekend. No comfort zone, no detachment to the world. No other voices, no other opinions, no other people. Build your own camp, cook your own food, fish, hunt, whatever, but do it yourself and alone. Can you handle this or will you run back to your mommies house?

I'm looking up campfire in my home state right now. Some camp sites places banned campfire. I prefer allowed campfire like wood fire.

Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard

This was no joke at all, go into the wilderness for a weekend. No comfort zone, no detachment to the world. No other voices, no other opinions, no other people. Build your own camp, cook your own food, fish, hunt, whatever, but do it yourself and alone. Can you handle this or will you run back to your mommies house?

I found a few campsites that allow wood fire. Im going to check those out! I'll need to get some camping gear, and I don't have any. I haven't camped in years. Not since boy scouts.

Originally Posted by UnKnownSurviving

I found a few campsites that allow wood fire. Im going to check those out! I'll need to get some camping gear, and I don't have any. I haven't camped in years. Not since boy scouts.

The sheer act to go into the woods or the wilderness is a masculine tradition. No matter where you come from or in which part of the earth you were born in. You don't need camping gear for this. For the start you can just buy food for 2-3 days to eat raw or cook on a fire. It sounds exceptional today, but it really isn't a big deal.

Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard

The sheer act to go into the woods or the wilderness is a masculine tradition. No matter where you come from or in which part of the earth you were born in. You don't need camping gear for this. For the start you can just buy food for 2-3 days to eat raw or cook on a fire. It sounds exceptional today, but it really isn't a big deal.

What about camping tents? isn't that considered part of camping gear? I could get one!

Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard

The sheer act to go into the woods or the wilderness is a masculine tradition. No matter where you come from or in which part of the earth you were born in. You don't need camping gear for this. For the start you can just buy food for 2-3 days to eat raw or cook on a fire. It sounds exceptional today, but it really isn't a big deal.

OH, I'm most definitely bringing food like meats to cook in the fire or something.

Originally Posted by UnKnownSurviving

What about camping tents? isn't that considered part of camping gear? I could get one!

It's your adventure, so you decide!

Originally Posted by bazalgette

I've now realized that all of my previous responses seem pretty agressive.
I hope you don't take it as a disagreement with you.
I just strongly disagree with a book, and the author.
When I see Gorilla next to masculinity, I just go bananas.
It is my belief that those people do more harm than good.
It's as if you wanted to reclaim your italian heritage, so you learn italian culture from Super Mario.



As you've pointed out - SOME of his points seem legit, others are just plainly stupid.
That's the inconsistency you should be looking for. If you have a mentor that sometimes drops gems on you and sometimes wants you to do stupid shit, it's a shitty mentor.
He is fundamentally wrong about one rule atleast - how can you trust the rest of his points?

Let me tell you that cold approach and being persistant it's one of main PUA's talking points.
It's also the quickest way to get #M2'ed.

Being gorilla that is playful, engage in stereotypical masculine behaviours from hollywood movies in order to display masculinity - that's called a frame.

Being nice, having good manners has nothing to do with masculinity - this is a way of a white knight.
If having class, manners, and being nice had worked, women wouldn't fall for thugs and bad boys.
And women fall for masculine men.
You seriously wanna tell me that i need to be nice gorilla with a class that is also playful?
Should I jump through the hoops too?

Please do read the book and give me feedback.
One can only learn from their mistakes and I'm no exception to this rule.

Nah, I get your point of view several times. In your view, you feel repulsed and sense this sounds very PUAs "vibes". I totally and completely get it, based off a few flaws and inconsistencies.

Originally Posted by Smoking Wizard

It's your adventure, so you decide!

Sweet! I'll let you know when I take my trip. I'm actually pretty excited about it This is further mgtow life. I have done mgtow some things, but camping? Exploring the wilderness? Shit, that is masculine traditions.

I have a kindle book written by Jack Donovan (I'm thinking I should get the printed version). This one is about male culture and masculine traditions on brotherhood. I haven't read it yet, though. What the fuck have I been doing all this time?! Shit.

Originally Posted by UnKnownSurviving

Sweet! I'll let you know when I take my trip. I'm actually pretty excited about it This is further mgtow life. I have done mgtow some things, but camping? Exploring the wilderness? Shit, that is masculine traditions.

I have a kindle book written by Jack Donovan (I'm thinking I should get the printed version). This one is about male culture and masculine traditions on brotherhood. I haven't read it yet, though. What the fuck have I been doing all this time?! Shit.

If you really want learn about male traditions and rituals you may change your sources. You may want to go for historic, anthropologic research papers. Or you could also just send an email to a university with such research fields and ask if there is a scientist who could give you tips for literature or answer your questions. I am sure they will be glad to see someone who shows interest.