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  1. #21

    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Sadly you simply must not interact with women any more then needed. They do not veiw men as humans being only human doings.

    Be polite but keep it brief

  2. #22
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by MGTOWFOREVER View Post
    Jagr, with all the respect in the world, I have to strongly disagree with you.

    I personally don't see any point of interacting with women as "friends". It will just end up with me being used , abused, talked about behind my back, and once she gets mad then the flood gates open. I am glad you have female friends . I really am. But I tried it and thought I found special unicorns but they weren't. Women brought me nothing but pain and drama. My life is better without them. Call it defeatist or some shaming tactics .Don't give a flying f**k.

    Am I bitter, hateful, or any of those shaming words? Nope. I went through my red pill rages. It ate me alive and I smashed so much shit just in pure anger cause the poor treatment lived rent free in my head. I moved on with my life and I'm doing way better. Time catches up to us all and be sure your sins will find you out is what I say.
    If you subscribe to that view, that's fine. What I won't tolerate is someone acting like this viewpoint is the official MGTOW POV and others who don't think this way are not MGTOW or less MGTOW.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



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  3. #23
    Senior Member Chris007's Avatar
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Personally, I couldn't care less about women and their never ending drama. I only interact with them when I have no other choice. I don't hate them or feel disgusted by them, I'm just completely indifferent towards them A NFG attitude of sorts.
    I don't envision being friends with any of them because their view of "friendship" is always based on exploitation and extraction of resources. Women are full time takers and not givers.

    To each his own, I'm not saying that this is an official MGTOW philosophy, just my own way of protecting myself and my assets.

  4. #24

    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by MGTOWFOREVER View Post
    I personally don't see any point of interacting with women as "friends".
    Seconding that. Friends are for sharing good memories. For going out and having a fun time.
    Friends are also for your support in your darkest hour.

    Can women offer that? I don't know. I always kept my distance. Had acquaintances, not female friends.
    From my experience women kill all the fun. I remember one peculiar time when we were chilling during our break and someone was telling a story:

    they once during PE had this female->male transformer and when her last name has been read out, "he" corrected the teacher that it ends on "e" instead of "a" because of his gender.

    This situation is objectively absurd that has nothing to do with politics and should be amusing to everyone. Now what the only female in our group does? "Well you would not know he was she before transforming if we hadn't told you.". Cue in virtue-signaling for next 5 mins.

    ThinkBeforeYouSleep (my first exposure to mgtow) once said that male-only spaces are necessary because women suck all of the objectivity out of the room. I find it hard not to agree.

    Let's talk more about fun. Is it fun to be an emotional tampon? To have one person that tries to pit other people in the group against eachother (hammerhand talked about it recently). Is it fun to be tone policed and, in extreme cases, have to walk on eggshels?

    Regarding support - if women refuse to support their own husbands and flee the marriages the very moment the tingles stop, what happens to their friends on the first sight of trouble? I think this is a good question to ask.

    I may be in the wrong here, but in my opinion friendship should not be transactional. It is also my observation that the main reason why men get screwed over is because they don't treat relationships as transactional. They selflessly sacrifice expecting their second half to do the same.

    If majority of female population is capable of betraying people they love, what happens to their friends?
    " A man without purpose finds it in women " - UCXIV

  5. #25
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Female friendship depends on Briffault's Law. AWALT, if she can't benefit, she not going to be friends. It might be just validation she is getting, it doesn't have to resources as with female female friends. She will be benefiting somewhere to be friends. So feed her ego and stay friends.....

  6. #26
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyNuts View Post
    Female friendship depends on Briffault's Law. AWALT, if she can't benefit, she not going to be friends. It might be just validation she is getting, it doesn't have to resources as with female female friends. She will be benefiting somewhere to be friends. So feed her ego and stay friends.....
    We all just spend time with people if we benefit in some way.

    Which is why Briffault's Law, despite the hype, makes no sense.

    Even our male friends- we enjoy their company, they make jokes that make us laugh, we have common interests. If we didn't benefit in these ways, we wouldn't likely have become friends with them in the first place.

    At times we may flatter ourselves and think it's deeper than that, and yet for guys who don't bring any of these attributes, we tend not to be friends with them. As far as social benefits, they underpin every relationship we have. I think it's a mistake to assume it only applies to women.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
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  7. #27

    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    We all just spend time with people if we benefit in some way.
    I don't think liking has anything to do with transaction.
    People are liked because of who they are, not their merits.
    There are many rich a-holes and relatable burger-flippers.
    Jokes, common interests - all of those are a part of one's personality.

    That's where I see problems with female friends. They don't have personality, they can't make jokes, they tone police.
    They may, or may not stir up drama and use others as emotional tampons. And when you are truly in need they
    most likely will disapear.

    I won't even mention false accusations and some very fun laws because imo the point regarding that is self-evident.

    Now - don't get me wrong. I do not think that all women are like that or that you always can count on your male friends.
    Friend sleeping with a wife is an old cliche for a reason. There are cheats, scums and gold diggers on both sides of equation.
    It's always necessary to background check and question anything that comes into your life. Those tracking bracelets that you call watches. Those ideas that you let live in your brain rent-free. People/entities who you trust.

    I also do not believe that female or male nature is intrinsic. Everyone has a free choice, free will. To be a 304 is a choice.
    Sadly, these days most women choose to be "like that". That's what you get when you reward bad behaviour and blur the lines between anything.

    Thus being said I think we all agree that collectively modern women are not to be trusted. That's why there are three dont's: marry, cohabitate, inseminate.
    That's why i question viability of having female friend. Friends are people you can trust.
    " A man without purpose finds it in women " - UCXIV

  8. #28

    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    >1. Never befriend females. Men and women can never be friends and there is absolutely no reason ....


    Wrong. As I just stated, I'm friends with several females- who are terrific friends that I'm grateful to have. As we've said on this forum since the beginning, having an extremist point of view that allows for no nuance, gets away from the truth. People like simple, extreme views because it's a simple rule to follow, with no further thought, but it's important to accept that reality isn't black&white, and use judgment.

    >2. I never even heard of a story like yours, but it is my understanding that the person who orders shit for themselves is legally obligated to pay for it. If somebody would’ve gotten into trouble it would’ve been her. I would’ve literally told her to go fuck herself.

    This country people get kicked out routinely for basic infractions. It is a law & order type of country. If I were in America at the time, maybe my response would be different.
    It's been the same for me. One of my very best friends on this Earth is a woman. I can talk to her about anything. She understands how rotten dating and marriage has gotten for men. I think what people are getting at when they say "men and women can't be friends" is that they can't be friends if one of them has wanted more than friendship. If that's the case, I think they're better off just leaving one another alone. I used to make the stupid mistake of trying to hang out and be friends with a woman that I wanted to get together with. It was torture. Each time I saw her was a reminder that she had rejected me, and then the goons she did get together with treated her like shit. It was too much to bear. I learned after that that you should make yourself scarce if someone has rejected you that way. Don't be rude, but you're not under any obligation to meet up with a person. You only have so much time.

    But with the women I am good friends with, romance or sex has never been a possibility with us. She's also a rare woman who is willing to see things from a man's point of view, and she wonders how men can even stand to date women when women are so demanding.

  9. #29
    Senior Member WheelBarrow's Avatar
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    In my experience "friendship" has been diluted by facebook which flippantly uses the term. To me a friend is someone near and dear of long lasting who has proven themselves worthy of the title. I like to say I have few friends and many acquaintances, which is true. Perhaps that sounds sad but it is not. Yet, even with acquaintances we're friendly and respectful it's just that while they're good people I wouldn't turn to them first if I had to lean on someone.

    As I hold friendship at a rather high level, it occurs to me that even though there were many female classmates and we did various school functions together and we got along, at some point all showed some sort of flakiness. Many of the guys did too so I count only a small number of long-time friends dating to my childhood and some have passed on making the count even smaller over the years.

    One of the things I think helps maintain a true friendship is not being in competition for the same things. Guys will be friends until they're competing for the same woman or even the same job. Men and women are often competing for mates, though usually not the same person for each, but those of either sex maintaining platonic relationships find it difficult to maintain those relationships when pursuing a mate. The considered mate often expresses unease or jealousy toward such relationships so it is the rare person that can accept that their mate has platonic relationships and not harbor thoughts that same will come between them and their mate.

    For men and women, a platonic relationship can only exist when there is no sexual tension between them from either party. None. Zero. Notta. Otherwise feelings are going to get in the way sooner or later and that will threaten the platonic relationship.

    The so-called "friend zone" is anything but where one would keep a friend. It is simply a holding pen for those who would abuse other people for their own ends.

    In short, the term "friend" is, IMO, overused and misunderstood.

    To those of you who have genuine female friends, my hat's off to you as you have maintained something quite rare.
    “Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company.” – George Washington

  10. #30
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by WheelBarrow View Post
    In short, the term "friend" is, IMO, overused and misunderstood.
    I agree with you. The important distinction between "friends" and "acquaintances" has never been much enforced in my observation and the online "friending" and "unfriending" thing just ensures the confusion.

    Seems everybody says they have friends but nobody really says they have acquaintances.

    My take, this:

    A friend is a serious thing, really it is. Yet the word is used to cover too many circumstances. I'd be careful with that word. The word acquaintance, not the word friend, should be the word to encompass the wide bandwidth of variation in associations that we see. Save the word friend for the more elite group.

    Maybe people are too afraid to oppose using the word friend for lack of what to do in its place. In my life I have corrected people warmly with a smile, "Well, you and I are not friends yet, but we're friendly!" Pronounced friend-LEE. It actually has worked for me to say that, if you include to express the possibility of friendship. Slip in the word yet but don't emphasize it. And then you make sure to stay friendly just like you were moments before. Even if a friendship is unlikely to develop, you've not overstated things and will still have your acquaintance somewhere inside that larger bandwidth of acquaintanceship.
    The two most important days in your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. - Mark Twain

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    - Henry David Thoreau

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  11. #31
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by bazalgette View Post
    I don't think liking has anything to do with transaction.
    People are liked because of who they are, not their merits.
    There are many rich a-holes and relatable burger-flippers.
    Jokes, common interests - all of those are a part of one's personality.

    That's where I see problems with female friends. They don't have personality, they can't make jokes, they tone police.

    ...
    That's why i question viability of having female friend. Friends are people you can trust.
    Except you didn't address my point. We are friends with men because we like something about them. We enjoy the conversation we have with them. We usually have common interests. One can try to frame it as "liking who they are" and "personality"- but we are still in the market for someone who's company we enjoy. In that sense, it is transactional no matter how many euphemisms we throw at it.

    It's the same with women.

    As far as women not having personality and not being able to make jokes, can't say I agree. Trust-wise, a close female friend offered to take a look at a property I was selling but was too far away to watch over. Nothing was asked in return. In general, men are more trustworthy than women, but sometimes we go too far in blanket descriptions of women.

    There are differences between men and women. And women have various limitations. Sometimes I wonder if we climb to extremes because it's safer up there.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



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  12. #32
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by WheelBarrow View Post
    In my experience "friendship" has been diluted by facebook which flippantly uses the term. To me a friend is someone near and dear of long lasting who has proven themselves worthy of the title.
    Appreciate your comment but I wonder if you're being too severe with terminology. We have some friends we've known for longer, some we've known for less; some who we'd have in the foxhole with us, others we just grab beers with. Not sure we have downgrade such friends to "acquaintance" level for that purpose.

    As for me, friends/acquaintances or whatever we want to call it are rare. I guess if we look at books like "Bowling Alone" we see the trends as to why- and that was written a few decades ago. I will take them in any form- any race, gender, nationality- provided they are good and decent people. To me that's such a rarity, that I'm not going to split hairs or have some kind of purity test.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



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  13. #33
    Administrator jagrmeister's Avatar
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by TigPlaze View Post

    But with the women I am good friends with, romance or sex has never been a possibility with us. She's also a rare woman who is willing to see things from a man's point of view, and she wonders how men can even stand to date women when women are so demanding.
    The female friend I'm closest to has a kind of male personality. Very logical, works in finance. Far from a feminist. Not judgmental, not overly-emotional. Rarely shares her problems or needs emotional support. I wonder if that's another quality of a female friend. With so many women, you're just there listening to them babble about 'who knows what' most of the time.

    Some of you may be wondering -- who is this Jagrmeister guy? Have a look at some of my posts from MGTOW Forums--> Jagr Archive (collection of my articles)



    Stuff I do: Box, Surf, Tennis (3.5/4.0), Downhill skiing. I lift 4x a week and have for 10 years.
    Stuff I like: Comedy shows, NBA, Reading Non-Fiction (sociology, philosophy, biographies).
    Random facts: I admire Steve Jobs. Favorite travel spots (Russia, Central America).

  14. #34

    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by bazalgette View Post
    I may be in the wrong here, but in my opinion friendship should not be transactional. It is also my observation that the main reason why men get screwed over is because they don't treat relationships as transactional. They selflessly sacrifice expecting their second half to do the same.
    If you sacrifice something for someone and expect them to sacrifice something in return, then that relationship is transactional. This is why I don't have any close friends (male or female), because I don't think what they offer is worth the sacrifice. People will always have a selfish reason for associating with you, even if it is a less materialistic one such as 'You are pleasant to be around and make me feel less lonely."
    Last edited by thenamelessone; August 18, 2022 at 12:37 PM.

  15. #35

    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    Even if you're not going on a date......

    I moved to a new area and met a woman in the gym. I know virtually nobody here and thought it would be good to befriend someone. We talked about local real estate- renting and buying, and we decided to meet up to talk more.

    I suggested place X, she then said "Can we meet at place Y instead". I said sure. I didn't bother looking up place Y but it turned out to be a somewhat pricey place.

    This crazy chick starts ordering drinks left and right. Mind you it's noon. She has like 4 drinks. She orders expensive food on the menu. Then she refuses to split the bill. None of her real-estate advice was worth what I had to shell out. This is the sort of place you don't want to get in trouble with the law so I just paid.

    I'm not one to say all women are batshit insane. I have several female friends that I do value. But there definitely is an entitlement. And when they refuse to pay, it's like they're willing to let the cops be called- that's how adamant they are about not paying lol. Nuts.
    You were the victim of a "foodie call."
    An escort is a woman you occasionally financially support only when she has sex with you.

    A date is a woman you occasionally financially support in the hope she will have sex with you.

    A wife is a woman you constantly financially support even when she is not having sex with you.

    An ex-wife is a woman you constantly financially support with alimony so she can have sex......with someone else.

  16. #36
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by jagrmeister View Post
    In that sense, it is transactional no matter how many euphemisms we throw at it.
    Indeed.

    It's all transactional. We only associate with those (male or female) that we get something from. It all depends on what we are looking for.

    For males, for the most part, we look for entertainment, those that share our views.

    For females this is also true, but there does seem to be an underlying current with them that they desire something practical also - what can you do for me!

    Men can also be like this but it is much rarer in the setting of personal association. In the business situation, however, it's probably much more prevelant amongst males.

    Maybe that's the difference. Maybe men are more likely to differentiate between work life and personal life and to women it's all the same thing.

    Just throwing out thoughts here.
    Last edited by Jackoff; August 18, 2022 at 8:10 PM. Reason: Typos

  17. #37
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackoff View Post
    Indeed.

    It's all transactional. We only associate with those (male or female) that we get something from. It all depends on what we are looking for.
    I wish it was that easy. We've all had co-workers we'd be better off without. Circles of small town friends are sure to have someone you don't like, and with any group of a dozen bikers there'll be bickering. But being let down by family is the worst. My best friend, you can't mention his cousins name without ruining his day. He can't even think about this toe rag without losing it.
    Every day I make the world a little bit worse.

  18. #38
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    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Quote Originally Posted by frog View Post
    I wish it was that easy. We've all had co-workers we'd be better off without. Circles of small town friends are sure to have someone you don't like, and with any group of a dozen bikers there'll be bickering. But being let down by family is the worst. My best friend, you can't mention his cousins name without ruining his day. He can't even think about this toe rag without losing it.
    You’re right of course.

    I was thinking along the lines of social interactions that we choose; who we associate with when we are looking to relax and enjoy life, like heading out for an evening.

    There are also those that we must, for various reasons associate with. Different situations mean different rules apply.

  19. #39

    Re: How to destroy generosity

    Occasional generosity is OK probably healthy but beware becoming a sucker. There are too many people who will take advantage. Almost as bad you may subconsciously expect reciprocity which means you do actually hope to be repaid. Best to usually just split the bill and avoid the whole damn thing.


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